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Masahiro Sakurai Talks Edge Grabbing in Super Smash Brothers Wii U & 3DS

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Smash Wii U & 3DS director Masahiro Sakurai has detailed new edge mechanics in Super Smash Brothers Wii U & 3DS! The new specifics offered by Sakurai are bulleted here:
  • Air time and accumulated damage will determine your period of invincibility while hanging on an edge.
  • Grab controls will no longer be affected by whether you have above or below 100% damage.
How will this change from Super Smash Brothers Brawl? Will the 'auto snapping' that plagued Brawl with frustrating edge mechanics return?

 

Giygacoal

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Not sure if these changes (and the ones to be revealed) will nerf or buff established playstyles, but it's cool that Sakurai is changing up the game in interesting (and promising) ways!
 

The Original Robot boy

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in the end new smash bros will differ from brawl but still have a bit feel towards melee
 

rjgbadger

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they seem to be taking away edge hogging. Mario was holding the edge and when Link showed up to it, he grabbed it and Mario was forced to let go. Not sure how much I like this.
 

MoonlapseOpethian

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I think this will help prevent planking to an extent. Maybe having higher percentage will give you shorter invincibility frames, since people on the brink of death are the ones to repeatedly edgehog the most, and if you're in the air for an extended period of time, the game recognizes you as recovering, and grants you more invincibility frames, or if you're in the air for a short period of time, the game recognizes you as planking, and grants you less invincibility frames.

The amount of invincibility frames will likely be calculated based on both air time and percentage to decide whether to give you more or less invincibility frames. This new mechanic will be especially painful to people that plank too much.
 

MoonlapseOpethian

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Hmm..... now that I think about it, they could be getting rid of edge hogging. That would be disappointing, seeing as edge hogging was a fun, yet very fair tactic in Smash, and getting rid of it would make gimping significantly harder.
 

Eisen

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Looking back at gameplay video, it doesn't look like I can see noticeable differences in the flashing characters have when getting up on the stage (looking for invincibility). Not that I can count frame all that well per se, but I'll let you guys be the judge. Though, as I'm writing this, I can't tell if Sakurai is referring to invincibility while using a getup attack or invincibility when actually grabbing the ledge.

As for the picture displayed, I think it's pretty clear that the position and trajectory Mario is in indicates that he was on the ledge, then Link Up-B'd him and snapped to the ledge. Regarding ledge-snapping; an example of how "strong" ledge snapping mechanics work is shown here at 5:39: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT4xjd9bGI0

You can hear Mario attempting an Up-b just at the edge, and then he's auto-snapped. From the looks of it, it's not nearly as strong as Brawl's auto snapping.

But look again at 4:41 in the same video. Mario tries to use cape literally at the ledge but falls through. Perhaps this means that recovery moves will snap but other moves won't?

Another example at 1:13. It's kind of hard to tell how the invincibility differs. I'm not sure I can make sense of it. But it's there.

I'd have to guess that lower % = less invincibility and vice-versa, at least that's the case if they're trying to nerf edge-hogging and edge guarding.

It's about time we got some new mechanic information, though.
 

Neloht

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So peach can float and keep herself off the ground enough to have more ledge invincibility. Seems legitimate
 

Psymon

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The caption should have been "And here we have a can of worms...enjoy."
 

RollWithEm

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I must say I'm intrigued. I wonder if individual Ice Climbers will take away each other's edge snap despite being essentially the same character.
 

2ndComing

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Looking back at gameplay video, it doesn't look like I can see noticeable differences in the flashing characters have when getting up on the stage (looking for invincibility). Not that I can count frame all that well per se, but I'll let you guys be the judge. Though, as I'm writing this, I can't tell if Sakurai is referring to invincibility while using a getup attack or invincibility when actually grabbing the ledge.

As for the picture displayed, I think it's pretty clear that the position and trajectory Mario is in indicates that he was on the ledge, then Link Up-B'd him and snapped to the ledge. Regarding ledge-snapping; an example of how "strong" ledge snapping mechanics work is shown here at 5:39: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT4xjd9bGI0

You can hear Mario attempting an Up-b just at the edge, and then he's auto-snapped. From the looks of it, it's not nearly as strong as Brawl's auto snapping.

But look again at 4:41 in the same video. Mario tries to use cape literally at the ledge but falls through. Perhaps this means that recovery moves will snap but other moves won't?

Another example at 1:13. It's kind of hard to tell how the invincibility differs. I'm not sure I can make sense of it. But it's there.

I'd have to guess that lower % = less invincibility and vice-versa, at least that's the case if they're trying to nerf edge-hogging and edge guarding.

It's about time we got some new mechanic information, though.
However that was MONTHS ago while the game was in early development
 

Phan7om

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This is probably the best reveal yet. Even tho it takes away edgehogging, it just makes it its own game, different from Brawl and Melee. We must learn new ways to edgeguard our opponents.
 

Kewkky

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I don't think it'll take away edgehogging, it just seems that it won't be the same way it's always been. I find the change pretty interesting, I'd love to experiment with new mechanics.

Also, no more slow getup options from the ledge it seems. Some characters had some really nice 100%> getup attacks, wonder how that'll be like as well.
 

Bones0

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I'm pretty sure you will have LESS invincibility the higher your damage is and the longer you spend in the air. It's specifically designed to avoid barlw gameplay. The decision to make getup options the same regardless of % is likely to give people SOME options when getting off the ledge because with the reduced invincibility mechanic, you won't be able to get away with as many ledgehop attacks.

Ledge gameplay is going to focus heavily on mixing up ledgeattacks, ledgejumps, ledgestands, and ledgerolls because there's no edgehogging and nerfed ledgehopping.
 

Sarki Soliloquy

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Looking back at gameplay video, it doesn't look like I can see noticeable differences in the flashing characters have when getting up on the stage (looking for invincibility). Not that I can count frame all that well per se, but I'll let you guys be the judge. Though, as I'm writing this, I can't tell if Sakurai is referring to invincibility while using a getup attack or invincibility when actually grabbing the ledge.

As for the picture displayed, I think it's pretty clear that the position and trajectory Mario is in indicates that he was on the ledge, then Link Up-B'd him and snapped to the ledge. Regarding ledge-snapping; an example of how "strong" ledge snapping mechanics work is shown here at 5:39: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT4xjd9bGI0

You can hear Mario attempting an Up-b just at the edge, and then he's auto-snapped. From the looks of it, it's not nearly as strong as Brawl's auto snapping.

But look again at 4:41 in the same video. Mario tries to use cape literally at the ledge but falls through. Perhaps this means that recovery moves will snap but other moves won't?

Another example at 1:13. It's kind of hard to tell how the invincibility differs. I'm not sure I can make sense of it. But it's there.

I'd have to guess that lower % = less invincibility and vice-versa, at least that's the case if they're trying to nerf edge-hogging and edge guarding.

It's about time we got some new mechanic information, though.
The way Sakurai words it sound like its the opposite of your hypothesis. Depending on how the game reads and calculates your air time and accumulated damage, the more you're airborne, the more space you have to recover especially for percentages that can easily KO. It also sounds like repeated ledgegrabing will leave one more vulnerable to interception by the opponent due to a shorter invincibility frame window. It would be nice if there was some sort of animation that indicates this kind of effect and how it varies.

About damage percentage no longer affecting grab controls, it sounds like the frames within a character's ledge recovery and attack animation will remain constant instead of being constant/slower due to said damage.
 

artofskjet

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I think that link grabbed the ledge after the invincibility was up which is stupid because say marth up b's and starts to fall and link had invincibility during the up b but lost it right after marth began to fall so the ledge belongs to marth but it takes away half of the kills people get
 

Sarki Soliloquy

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In Brawl, there was a certain invincibility window for all characters (damage affecting this) before they were vulnerable to damage, if I'm not mistaken. I'm assuming Link had used an aerial on Mario before grabbing the ledge. Otherwise, stealing the ledge from someone who's already holding it could be interesting.
 

artofskjet

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Now that's what I'm thinking though but from the video it seems a little different from brawl and meele
 

Daftatt

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so I'm thinking longer air time means more invincibility, meaning you can't drop from the ledge and regrab it to get invincibility frames because that would be almost no air time. NO PLANKING!
 

XenoUltra

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they seem to be taking away edge hogging. Mario was holding the edge and when Link showed up to it, he grabbed it and Mario was forced to let go. Not sure how much I like this.
edge hogging is still in. It's just going to be much harder
 

Alex Night

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I think that link grabbed the ledge after the invincibility was up which is stupid because say marth up b's and starts to fall and link had invincibility during the up b but lost it right after marth began to fall so the ledge belongs to marth but it takes away half of the kills people get
There could still be an opportunity to steal the ledge from your recovering opponent if you utilize Ledge Rolling like in Melee. If the game has mechanics like that, then I don't see this as a big problem for ledgehogging. Planking will be a different story though.
 

GwJ

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I think that link grabbed the ledge after the invincibility was up which is stupid because say marth up b's and starts to fall and link had invincibility during the up b but lost it right after marth began to fall so the ledge belongs to marth but it takes away half of the kills people get
Doesn't it seem a little silly though the way it currently is? As it stands right now, Marth would get higher thank Link, above the ledge, but would just watch the edge and be like "Oh ****, Link's hand is touching the ledge. Finder's keepers, loser's weepers. I'll get it next time." and altruistically let the ledge go? Doesn't it make sense for somebody about to fall on the ledge to push the person off the ledge that's already holding on to it?
 

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So, so lame. Out of all the things Sakurai thought about nerfing in the mechanics, why edge hogging? Hate this change and I'm honestly shocked some of you actually seem to be okay with edge hogging apparently being nerfed. Give me back wavedashing and L-canceling then. It really just better be harder and not completely worthless.
 

Alex Night

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So, so lame. Out of all the things Sakurai thought about nerfing in the mechanics, why edge hogging? Hate this change and I'm honestly shocked some of you actually seem to be okay with edge hogging apparently being nerfed. Give me back wavedashing and L-canceling then. It really just better be harder and not completely worthless.
We don't know anything about Ledgehogging being nerfed. For all we know, we could still steal the ledge from recovering opponents by just Rolling onto the stage from the ledge.
 

DiamondDust

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We don't know anything about Ledgehogging being nerfed. For all we know, we could still steal the ledge from recovering opponents by just Rolling onto the stage from the ledge.
I sure hope you're right. This just drives me crazy though if it's what I think it is.

...And your avatar is freakin' amazing.
 

Alex Night

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I sure hope you're right. This just drives me crazy though if it's what I think it is.

...And your avatar is freakin' amazing.
Only time will tell, Fellow Lazer shooter.

Also, thanks for the compliment. Found it on Google and the Sonic fan in me had to get it.
 

2ndComing

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Yeah, that was all assuming nothing that severe would change, of course.
Its Smash Brothers, you'd think after Brawl's changes people would KNOW things would change since each entry has something that makes it stands on its own
 

DaDavid

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I wish the translators would've been more crystal about this, but in general is sounds like a good change.
 
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