Marths Tier Rank, and etc. other stuff Questions

[VietGeek]

I have a hard time believing that Masahiro "Everyone's a winner!" Sakurai deliberately designed Dedede to be able to win by literally standing in one spot and using the same move over and over. Chaingrabs to the end of the stage, perhaps, but standing/wall infinites?

Deliberate or not, it IS a part of his character design. It was how he was built, by mistake or by will.

Whether or not something is intentional is irrelevant when speaking of the game in its entirety. If there is a glitch, you do not ignore it, you acknowledge its existence and try to come to a further understanding of why it exists, and possibly to see if it has any worth to a game, or is a mere nuisance.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I personally don't think a characters potential can ever reach its max there will always be room to improve. I don't think theres a lack of Marth players I just think theres a lack of Marth players who advance marth most of them read guides and stick to them like glue =\

good quote right here, there are too many marths on these boards that take the knowledge here for granted that don't try to advance the meta game.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I have a hard time believing that Masahiro "Everyone's a winner!" Sakurai deliberately designed Dedede to be able to win by literally standing in one spot and using the same move over and over. Chaingrabs to the end of the stage, perhaps, but standing/wall infinites?

Sakurai designed this game to be a four player party game with items. It's likely he wasn't concerned about the chain grab/wall infinite being abused in such an environment. It's also likely he didn't know about the standing infinites.

 

[BacklashMarth]

^ for that very reason i wish that you could download updates for wii games. That way mess-ups that the programmers missed could be fixed while the release date for a game wouldnt have to be compromised. But there still would b the problem of which version of the game should be used in tourneys since not everyone has wifi.

 

[DarkRunner00]

I completely concour with everything EL has said so far. Personally, whenever i hear sumbody say "i am/i was waiting for another AT or special sumthing to get discovered to do so-andoso to marths metagame i hear it as this: "im waiting for a new version of brawl to come out where marth is a little bit broken". Its like they want the programmers to reprogram the game just because the odds arent in their favor. And granted, i do subscribe to the theory that some characters have some really broken advantages, but that doesnt mean you are doomed to fail against certain characters. Take what u know and get creative, try new things, play smart, and always think. When life gives u lemons, shove em in the programmers eyes. Dont sit there sucking on them expecting them to turn into oranges.

it's not advance techniques I'm waiting for specifically... its a method of winning.

May the best players push Marth to victory. Every player has his own style and they weigh attacks heavier than others.

I've been experimenting on my own and majority of what I cook up has been already turned down. So I play how other people play. I watch their video's, hear their comments, and read their guides.

My friends get pissed when I change up a style mid match, from grounded to aerials, to Fair spam to Fsmash spam. from dashing to walking. Shielding/Airdodging to counter. We all do that at least smart players mix up their game so that they may be unpredictable. EL's metaphor being given tools is undoubtably correct.

It is how each individual player makes use of the tools given to him.

I personally don't think a characters potential can ever reach its max there will always be room to improve. I don't think theres a lack of Marth players I just think theres a lack of Marth players who advance marth most of them read guides and stick to them like glue =\

this is what's the truest of statments. There haven't been many players advancing new methods. EL said he wrote those guides to get our gears going. But we just stick to his guides and hardly discuss of anything new that we've invented!

If not advance techniques. than we should discuss more setups. I come across set ups through small replies. Maybe there aren't many since Brawl isn't as technical or deep.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

^What are you talking about when you say "a method of winning"? Marth is perfectly capable of winning under most circumstances! Marth is one of the best characters in brawl, and many Marths are getting better. I for one am getting better, I've recently beat people that I used to get 2 or 3 stocked by, and I was never very good, but all of us as a whole are getting better. I'm not just saying I'm getting better, people I've played have recognized this as well. So seriously, what do you mean when you say you want a method of winning?

 

[DarkRunner00]

when I said a "method of winning" a new method. Just something new. Anything. haha.
There's always perfecting the other methods.

Fighting games evolve every second. When someone learns a cheap thing people will find a counter. When they can't counter the counter, the metagame shifts to another over abused way of fighting until a counter is found.

I've watched our compendium and I see a few play styles that are similar and so I try to emulate that style. And then I find another style that also seems dominant and so I shift to another style. A few play aggressive and many play defensive. What attacks they weigh during matches depends on the individual...

for instance VietGeek's early matches had impressive uses of his counter. Later, I realize that he stopped using it as frequently and then I noticed he dolphin slashes out of shield A LOT. where as other players don't trust DS because of the shielded and helpless factor. He has quite a mastery of his style.

players like Drago and Lucky? even I can't remember... sorry, but they fair fan and fair approach and they are pretty **** aggressive.

Some marths are well grounded hoping to tip with Fsmash (but they won't let a good air combo go to waste) where others Marth's focus on an aerial game. They tend to Up DB rather than any other so they can keep their opponent in the air.

New videos consist of the Nair ledge recovery (which wasn't seen at least by me until recently, and which I've incorporated heavily into my own game)

Lots of things change. Things that I learn... like the DB -> Grab set up (which was thrown away of its unreliability) and disappearance of Dair. and the reliance of Fair and Bair as the edgeguards.

Things change constantly and though I see growth its very little.

The only thing thats really worth reading fresh now are the match up threads. Maybe thats the key to advance strategy.

Where as the guides were an introduction to Marth's strategy.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok, most opf what you are saying is just differences in style.

Anything, that takes advantage of a characters tools or any kind of strategy really is metagame advancement. Once something is known to the community it becomes more standardized in everyone's game.

People use more up b out of shield to punish now because it's one of the best punishment tools in the game and Marth can abuse it to the fullest.

Other things like relying on fairs vs relying more on Dancing Blade is a matter of preference as well as depending on what match-up you are in.

There are some things you NEED to be doing when you play a character and there are somethings that are completely up to your style of play. But I say as long as you play smart and make good choices for the situations you find yourself in, you will be just fine.

I think I know what you are really looking for. You are looking for some reliable strat that Marth has that can allow him to do well vs any foe.

If Marth had that he would most certainly be top 3.

He just isn't that type of character. Well, I take that back. He does have that stuff. He has his frame traps, but those take alot of work and skill to master. It's not like a CG where you get one grab and just ****.