Marth

[Boxob.]

I don't have a lot of time right now, but I want to make this thread into a lengthy synopsis of the Marth matchup through the eyes of of someone who regularly plays very good Marth players. I'll try and get a few very important things down here now though so this isn't deleted as a placeholder thread.

But you know me, here's the catch. I want YOU. Everyone, if possible, to fill this out. This is a survey. I want you to list what moves fit into what, explain how they can be used. When they can't be used, the effectiveness of said moves. The practicality and ease of use. But please, I ask, if you participate in this. Try to show as LITTLE bias as possible. Really, really think every answer all the way through. I want this to show the people who think Marth is Sonic's matchup that they are completely mistaken. IF YOU ARE A MARTH/ARE SOMEONE WHO HAS FOUGHT/FIGHTS GOOD MARTH PLAYERS, PLEASE FILL THIS OUT. It'd really help.


I'm hoping that since this board seems pretty close, we can all do each other a favor and fill this out to the best of our ability. I know without the shadow of a doubt that Marth is in no way, an advantageous character to use against sonic. I know it's even, and if not, a little in Sonic's favor.


I'll be filling this out when I get more time, as I'm currently in florida with the Brady bunch Boxobunch family.

Section one: Paper statistics -

Aeriel range:

Aerial speed:

Aerial power:

Aeriel KO moves:

Aerial Damage racking:

Aerial pokes:

Mobility, aerial/control:



Ground range:

Ground speed:

Ground Power:

Ground KO moves:

Ground Damage racking:

Grounds pokes:

Ground control/mobility/options:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Section two: Answers to what the other player can do.

Sonic - What he can do :

Marth : What he can do to counteract it :



Marth - What he can do :

Sonic: what he can do to counteract it:

 

[Browny]

OK fine I wont be an emo.

Maybe I need to spam spindash moar vs Marth's... see how that works out for me :/

 

[aeghrur]

Nah, I like Boxob's crusade. It's the first new productive thread in... months, lol.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Section one: Paper statistics -

Aeriel range: Really long, it easily beats out whatever Sonic can throw at her, even the longest B-air.

Aerial speed: She has really fast aerials, especially F-air. She can also do B-air > F-air or F-air x2 in a SH. Just her D-air has a lot of open time where you can hit her.

Aerial power: Tippered aerials are really awesome, but her F-air is usually stale. Tippered N-air can easily be a great killing move. D-air can spike and U-air has barely any serious kill power.

Aeriel KO moves: If F-air is not stale, watch out for a tipper. Other than that, she will probably kill you with grounded moves.

Aerial Damage racking: Wall of F-air really damages you if you can't pull trough it.

Aerial pokes: Think F-air.

Mobility, aerial/control: Martha can retreat F-airs not too badly. She has moderate air acceleration/speed.



Ground range: Just as long, probably better than her aerial range.

Ground speed: Her attacks are mediocre in terms of speed, except the fast D-tilt.

Ground Power: She is fairly strong grounded, tippered hits can send you flying

Ground KO moves: Tippered F-smash is his main killer, but untippered is strong as well. U-tilt and F-tilt send you flying.

Ground Damage racking: D-tilt is usually used with F-airs and F-tilts as a wall. I hate it.

Grounds pokes: D-tilt <_<

Ground control/mobility/options: Marth's running speed is alright, Dash Attack sucks. Pivots can be really annoying.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Section two: Answers to what the other player can do.

Sonic - What he can do : Bait an risky attack and punish the opening, otherwise you really can't get in.

Marth : What he can do to counteract it : Play it safe and outspace you.



Marth - What he can do : Poke you and pressure you, outspace you and kill earlier with F-smash

Sonic: what he can do to counteract it: Spring out of bad situations, bait bad moves and DI correctly.

<_< My answers

 

[Camalange]

I think most Sonic's biggest problem against Marth is that they don't realize you can run around with little worries.

Honestly, Marth can approach, but he can't force YOU to approach. Running around also makes spacing for him so much harder since the only way you're going to die before like, 130% is from a tipper Fsmash. For realz yo.

This is kinda offtopic but wanted to throw this out there. Sonic should live to very high percents due to him being middleweight and having an intense momentum cancel. The other day I was bored and made the biggest possible stage on custom stage maker and had Snake Fsmash Sonic at the opposite side of the stage and have Sonic live until about 180% from FF Fair+Down B. Honestly, Down B once released cancels ALL momentum. So use that to your advantage if Marth isn't tipper killing.

I'll do more of the statistics stuff some other time.


PS - Malcolm, stop using SideB. Found your recent Sonic video and you still do it ):<

 

[ROOOOY!]

Honestly, Marth can approach, but he can't force YOU to approach. Running around also makes spacing for him so much harder since the only way you're going to die before like, 130% 150% is from a tipper Fsmash.

Camalange is the only person who gets it.

 

[Camalange]

I think I actually had the percent as 150 and changed it to 130 for whatever reason.

 

[Kuraudo]

...but he can't force me to approach... Hmmm...

 

[Camalange]

...but he can't force me to approach... Hmmm...

^^is getting it

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

OK fine I wont be an emo.

Maybe I need to spam spindash moar vs Marth's... see how that works out for me :/

If you time it right better than you might think lol. Just sitting there charging makes people shield/spam attacks as we all know. It's excellent for baiting simple as a scare tactic. Most people just let go of it quickly lol.

 

[Camalange]

lmao Terry, I was just about to post (in a different thread) that every match should begin with charging Spindash just to see how your opponent reacts xD

If they do what you just said, spam that ****. If they know the MU, then obviously use it wisely, but I've realized there are a good number of people who flatout can't punish Spindash so...why not abuse it?

So much fear.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Cammy's a smart dude. Holding Down B spin is EXCELLENT for conditioning.

 

[JayBee]

...but he can't force me to approach... Hmmm...

Hmm....

writes notes. in his mind...


Cam, the biggest reason i feel marth is so hard, is because it seems like sideB not only stops everything close, but conditions blocking for when they decide to cancel and grab attempt.

And as diverse as my recovery game is, I still get beat hard by an edgegaurding marth, that even if he doesn't push me back off, gets a side B anyways. And I've been asking and trying to practice the DI for it for what seems like a long time.

I really wish i can belive marth wasn't as hard cam, but if I can't even beat Mattix and his defensive side B marth , then I have no hope.

 

[infomon]

lmao Terry, I was just about to post (in a different thread) that every match should begin with charging Spindash just to see how your opponent reacts xD

welll.... except for snake... because every snake starts with a grenade, which beats everything we might do from spindash (including cancelling it lol).... unless it's a really bad snake

 

[Camalange]

side b

I think that's a personal issue, not a Sonic vs Marth issue.

YOU need to learn how to punish/get around SideB, not Sonic.

@infzy - oh, trufax O_o

 

[JMan8891]

I disagree.

Should a good marth play it right, side B ***** you.
You can grab after the 3rd hit, but essentially, he'll eat ur shield, pressure you... and can chase you down too.

Its winnable, but u NEED room to move to try to offset his spacing. Truly, if u are conistently pwning ANY marth's sideB, there JUST not doing it right...
They can hit once, stop...
Twice... stop...
Keep u guessing (Spot dodge or roll, u can and should eat a DB...)
Grab you for shielding... or **** ur shield.

NOT a good situation.

Our saving grace is surviving, and being harder to gimp. Marth frankly has far better options then us in this MU

 

[Boxob.]

Or you could just, try not to get hit by side B.

People make it out to be an amazing move. It's pretty good. But it's by no means broken. Just really avoid it, Run away, space bair, Dash attack. You won't get hit by it.

 

[Kuraudo]

Hey guys. Guess what. He can't make you approach. Ggz

 

[Chis]

Can Sonic make him approach?

 

[Kinzer]

Side-Taunt.

Other than that, the only way to force an approach is by having stock lead.

Unless you were being sarcastic when you asked and you already knew that, then disregard this post.

 

[infomon]

the great thing about this matchup, is the marth can't force the sonic to approach the marth.
good game lol

 

[Chis]

And Sonic can't force Marth to approach. So what's the point?

 

[Boxob.]

And Sonic can't force Marth to approach. So what's the point?

Well because of Sonic approach options being safer. You could get a percent lead, and run around them. A lot of people will just try and attack. Which in most cases, is punishable. Marth can now either run away, and lose, or approach, and get hit.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Stage planking. lawl

 

[~TBS~]

there really is no way around this approaching thing is it? The only thing we can say is to punish enough and hope to land kill moves while avoiding DB, huh?

 

[Kuraudo]

Be tricksy, use Dash Attack immediately, don't let him catch you at the end of it, whatever you do, DON'T jump unless you know you got a Fair/Bair in there. Or if you're up close, SH-UAir to pop them up.

Oh. And lots of Spin Dash. They hate Spin Dash.