Marth

[stoneswithstand]

I'm up against Marth on thursday (a very good marth)

Quick tips please (this post should be forgotten soon)
I just need some helpful stuff to think about during the fight

 

[SinkingHigher]

Marth is really fast.

Are you good with Sheik? I personally think Sheik has the upper hand here. If you are, well, you know what to do.

If you only know Zelda, then I suggest playing defensive. Zelda's approach attacks are really laggy. Dash attack, F-Smash.

Be aware that Din may not be as useful on Marth as other characters. He can pretty quickly deflect.

Create some distance and try to get him to approach. A couple of Din's on the way never hurt anyone. *Desperately tries to over come the urge to say "NOT!"*
*Fails*

NOT!

Harrrrr. Anywho, Zelda's got a great defensive game, imo. Marth doesn't really. When he tries to counter your Dins, if he does, He leaves himself open to throws if you're close enough to get to him on time.

Marth is a light character. His small build and quick attacks make it difficult to sweetspot f-airs, but u-airs are a little easier. He pwns Zelda at close-combat, but if you can get JUST out of the range of his sword, you should be fine. Zelda's magic gives her an added range.

Just practice against a level 9 CPU if you don't know any Marth's willing to help. Do not base your strategy on a CPU battle. Do it to get used to Marth's moves. See what he would do in certain situations. Even better, play as Marth against Zelda, so you can get into his head. Find out what his pros and cons are, and then neutralise his pros, and exploit the cons.

Goodluck. Don't know if this helps. I've honestly never fought a lot of Marths.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

a few of the biggest tips for marth:

-DON'T YOU DARE LET HIM GET IN HIS IDEAL RANGE. His sword outranges your attacks. Either keep him too far for either of you to hit. Or close enough for both of you to hit.

- His aerial game beats yours. Don't take him on in the air unless he's right abouve you. In that case you can attempt to Uair. If you are both stck in the air, just aridodge unless you see an opening.

-be careful of when you use Din's. He can close distance fairly quickly.

-His recovery isn't the greatest. Sometimes he can't make it back if he gests Dsmashed by Zelda. Only edgeguard with Din's fires if he's DEFINITELY going to recover anyaway.

 

[Tristan_win]

From what I've experience Sheik no longer counters Marth as a good side B will kill any of her approaches and because of his rate of falling she has difficult time comboing him.

Your best bet would be to start the match as Sheik, needle camp until you get him to tilt lock %, get him into a lock, do hit and run tactics and once he’s at around 90% hit him with a strong attack such as the down smash to knock him away. If he have 90% or above damage you should be able to transform into Zelda without any real threat of being fsmash upon change.

I must warn you though Marth has one of the best air approaches in the game and I've seen good Marth users link two fair in a row to weaken your shield before using a dtilt at my now unguarded feet.

Marth weakness is his easily gimp recovery and his lack of range attacks both of which you should complete monopolized on if you want to win.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

...Marth weakness is his easily gimp recovery...

It's VERY VERY difficult to gimp marth's recovery.

 

[Tristan_win]

It's VERY VERY difficult to gimp marth's recovery.

Bah, I've been doing it with Sheik for years

The only differences is now he can sweet spot at any height and his neutral B give him ubber horzontal recovery but even with that it's a very predictable trajectory and shouldn't be too much trouble to uair him out of.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

if he tries to recover low, then good luck knocking him out of it.

It doesn't have incredible range, bit it's invincible upon startup and isn't very vulnerable for the duration of the attack.

 

[Tristan_win]

if he tries to recover low, then good luck knocking him out of it.

It doesn't have incredible range, bit it's invincible upon startup and isn't very vulnerable for the duration of the attack.

I love it when Marth try to recover low

What I always do if they try this is fast fall of the side of the stage until I'm below them and then when the time is right I do a rising fair.

The only way the Marth player can stop this is if they use a side b but he has to start the attack before you get to him which is a very very small window of opportunity.

Also you can just tether hang while you wait for him to recover and once he enters range pull yourself up the ledge to gain your invincibly frames, which then he will not be able to sweet spot so you can at your leisure let go of the ledge and jump into the stage doing a bair (which is a lot easily to hit him with then the fair back in melee)

This one I'm not too sure about anymore as I haven't tested it yet in brawl but in melee you could also do a nair and trade hits with Marth ^B

Edit: I truly wish with all my heart I could Pops as I have quite a few things I wish to show to the Sheik and Zamus forums but sadly I'm unable to because of my lack of recording equipment.

Edi2t: The nair no longer trades hits with Marth ^B.

 

[popsofctown]

Wow, it sounds you have a really sophisticated set of ways to gimp Marth's recovery, Tristan. Can you put up some videos so i can emulate them? Gimping might be my weakness with Sheik... it's hard to say, there's so much i want to work on with my Sheik.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I think most players on the marth boards would disagree with shiek having the ability to gimp marth.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

Create some distance and try to get him to approach.

Harrrrr. Anywho, Zelda's got a great defensive game, imo. Marth doesn't really. When he tries to counter your Dins, if he does, He leaves himself open to throws if you're close enough to get to him on time.

I didn't read the other posts in here so i don't know if people agree with you or disagree with you but let me just put in my two cents as a member of the other side (Marth main)

I don't think you want to bait marth into approaching you since he can just semi approach you and camp fairs in your face thus making you want to approach him. i have no clue how zelda should fight marth but i just don't think that's a good idea.

the main reason i'm posting though is the thing about marth not being very defensive. it may not be his nature but a defensive marth (which I've been told mine is a smart defensive one) can actually **** some ****. I do things such as every time my shield is attacked i either sword dance for 17% or up-b out of shield which often KOs unless you're quick to DI. we may not be defensive as in run away and camp defensive, but we still have our measures of pulling back for a little while until we have momentum.

thanks for reading lol

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I didn't read the other posts in here so i don't know if people agree with you or disagree with you but let me just put in my two cents as a member of the other side (Marth main)

I don't think you want to bait marth into approaching you since he can just semi approach you and camp fairs in your face thus making you want to approach him. i have no clue how zelda should fight marth but i just don't think that's a good idea.

the main reason i'm posting though is the thing about marth not being very defensive. it may not be his nature but a defensive marth (which I've been told mine is a smart defensive one) can actually **** some ****. I do things such as every time my shield is attacked i either sword dance for 17% or up-b out of shield which often KOs unless you're quick to DI. we may not be defensive as in run away and camp defensive, but we still have our measures of pulling back for a little while until we have momentum.

thanks for reading lol

yes, that's all marth needs to do and git gives Zelda one hell of a time.

 

[Doodx]

all i can say is that when he is recovering then do notbe afraid to charge on him u know that he cannot recover better than u also if he is horizontaly trying to recover, dins fire will destroy him because he cannot air dodge or else he will fall to his death he will just have to eat some fire
also if you are fast at grabbin the ledge then grab it just as he will up b but u must remember that he can stage spike

 

[SinkingHigher]

I met my first decent marth online today.

Haha, I was *****.

I ***** him relatively well afterwards though. I find it really hard to fight in a crowd as Zelda. Maybe that's because te projector broke and now I'm on a 21"er.

As an update, thank you GG, Marth's kicks *** in the air. However, I feel like I was still justified in saying that the u-air, when properly executed, is a great tool. I found tilts especially useful too. Moreso than smashes.

 

[XFadingNirvanaX]

I use Sheik when fighting Marth. If the person isn't good at all with Marth I might switch out Zelda. But I usually stick with Sheik.

 

[Proverbs]

Hopefully my advice will be of some use being a current Marth mainer and previously having Zelda as my secondary.

Fighting Marth definitely hinges upon stage selection when using Zelda. You want as many obstacles between you and him as possible. Din's Fire is good against Marth as long as he can't reach you. A stage I might suggest would be Green Greens. I am currently developing a strategy for this stage with Ness, but some of the techniques Ness has can also be used for Zelda.

Now, the blocks definitely are to your advantage. You can attack past them and can use Din's Fire to detonate bombs--use this to your advantage. Each explosion deals around 20-40% damage and you can KO Marth with your u-air around 80%. Here's where the platforms come into play. When Marth is at or near that special percentage you want to pressure him onto a platform. Given this chance, u-air. Early kills are the best and this is one of the few times you want to be aggressive.

Otherwise, rely on your opponent's mistakes and--DO NOT SHIELD TOO MUCH. NEVER EVER DO THIS AGAINST A GOOD MARTH. ANY DECENT MARTH WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOUR OVERUSED SHIELDING AND THROW SHIELDBREAKERS INTO THE MIX. <--That needed to be in all caps.

Nothing is more spirit-breaking than having your shield broken, getting taunted and THEN receiving a fully charged and perfectly tipped shieldbreaker. This will KO at around 40% so you have nearly no chance. Believe me, I've done this on people who shield too much. Always keep a close eye on your shield and almost never take to the air. If you feel brave enough to attempt to gimp Marth (which is by no means easy), use your n-air to trap him and then drag him diagonally downward. Do this especially after he uses his second jump, and if he Dolphin Blades you to get a hit in before he dies, wall-tech so you don't get stage spiked, and recover.

All right, just a few more things. Use your jab or f-tilt to push Marth away if he gets too close, shieldgrab when you can but don't go for grabs on their own. U-tilt if your upsmash gets stale and/or if the Marth is DIing out of your multi hits as this will kill at about the same percentage.

Never ever play against a level 9. They're horrible. Here are some differences between real humans and level 9's. Level 9's do not recover well, are easy to gimp, do not use current metagame strategies, and create bad habits when you play them. Not so for real human Marths.

If you want to become better at fighting Marths, play some online or something. If you want to play me PM me and we can set up a time. FC is to the left.

 

[stoneswithstand]

Won by 2 stock zelda
Thanks for the help!

 

[S2]

Should be mentioned,

although Marth outranges Zelda most of the time, Zelda's f-smash outranges ALL of Marth's moveset.

IE space right, hit him with the very tip of your f-smash.

 

[Proverbs]

^Wow, thanks. That's really useful to know, whether or not I start maining Zelda again. I should let my teammtae/practicing partner know that so he can abuse that on me constantly so that I get used to it. Thanks.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Should be mentioned,

although Marth outranges Zelda most of the time, Zelda's f-smash outranges ALL of Marth's moveset.

IE space right, hit him with the very tip of your f-smash.

It doesn't outrange shield breaker I'm pretty sure.

 

[stoneswithstand]

one weird thing i noticed is that out of all the characters, marth is able to get out of her upsmash

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

one weird thing i noticed is that out of all the characters, marth is able to get out of her upsmash

Anyone is able to. certain factors can make it more or less dificult to though