Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
I am completely lost.
-
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Marth vs Ganon?
- Thread starter Metal Reeper
- Start date
What to do against Ganon as Marth.
Spacing:: Spacing your moves vs Ganon can be quite hard because he has some pretty good reach on all of his aerials as well as some of his tilts *down tilt and forward tilt." Try not to approach with aerials unless you know he will either get hit or shield when he does shield dash away and wait. The best way to approach him is either run up shield or run in down tilt and then run away. If he starts fairing your dtilt run up and shield then attack oos with a fair or nair. Another thing you can do is walk up just right out of his range and jab and or ftilt him if he jump spams fair a lot, it'll make him think twice about doing it again.
Grabs:: When you get a grab on Ganon you can do a few things, one of which is down throw and then wait for him to tech roll. His tech roll is pretty bad and you can follow it up pretty easily. If you find your not very good at this dont worry there is another way to punish Ganon harder than the tech chase and that is juggling. Ganon has a hard time getting down so what you can do is just up throw him. Now most Ganon's will try and double jump to avoid the utilt they are anticipating. Instead of utilting and missing then getting stomped in the face, jump up at him with an uair. He will have lost his double jump then just stay under him and juggle him a lot.
Gimps:: Marth can gimp the hell out of Ganon, just like Falcon. Dair is increadibly useful against Ganon, pretty much just throw him off and dair. Just get used to the timing for landing dair on Ganon's upb. He cannot sweet spot his upb unless he reverses it I think? So yeah pretty much just get him off the stage and dair. : /
Recovering:: Ganon can do some really mean things to Marth when Marth is off stage. Make sure you save your jump till you get closer to the stage it will help you avoid his edge guards. Some things Ganon's will do is wavedash off and uair or bair. If you can anticipate it correctly you can counter him and on stages like Yoshi's and Battlefield he will die unless he tech's at the right time. Also try and mix between recovering high and low that should help you getting back, however I almost always go low. Be very wary of forward bing when you recover against Ganon he will usually just wait for you to forward b then punish you for doing so.
Other tips:: Make sure to not try and grab Ganon out of shield very much if at all it wont work and will usually get you punished hard. The reason Ganon is good is because he can kill you in just a few hits. So you really need to play safe/ gay against a really good Ganon. However once you learn the matchup more I'm sure you will do just fine.
Hope this helps! If you have any questions contact me on AIM or PM me. My AIM is Gamewiz199. Happy smashings!!!
Spacing:: Spacing your moves vs Ganon can be quite hard because he has some pretty good reach on all of his aerials as well as some of his tilts *down tilt and forward tilt." Try not to approach with aerials unless you know he will either get hit or shield when he does shield dash away and wait. The best way to approach him is either run up shield or run in down tilt and then run away. If he starts fairing your dtilt run up and shield then attack oos with a fair or nair. Another thing you can do is walk up just right out of his range and jab and or ftilt him if he jump spams fair a lot, it'll make him think twice about doing it again.
Grabs:: When you get a grab on Ganon you can do a few things, one of which is down throw and then wait for him to tech roll. His tech roll is pretty bad and you can follow it up pretty easily. If you find your not very good at this dont worry there is another way to punish Ganon harder than the tech chase and that is juggling. Ganon has a hard time getting down so what you can do is just up throw him. Now most Ganon's will try and double jump to avoid the utilt they are anticipating. Instead of utilting and missing then getting stomped in the face, jump up at him with an uair. He will have lost his double jump then just stay under him and juggle him a lot.
Gimps:: Marth can gimp the hell out of Ganon, just like Falcon. Dair is increadibly useful against Ganon, pretty much just throw him off and dair. Just get used to the timing for landing dair on Ganon's upb. He cannot sweet spot his upb unless he reverses it I think? So yeah pretty much just get him off the stage and dair. : /
Recovering:: Ganon can do some really mean things to Marth when Marth is off stage. Make sure you save your jump till you get closer to the stage it will help you avoid his edge guards. Some things Ganon's will do is wavedash off and uair or bair. If you can anticipate it correctly you can counter him and on stages like Yoshi's and Battlefield he will die unless he tech's at the right time. Also try and mix between recovering high and low that should help you getting back, however I almost always go low. Be very wary of forward bing when you recover against Ganon he will usually just wait for you to forward b then punish you for doing so.
Other tips:: Make sure to not try and grab Ganon out of shield very much if at all it wont work and will usually get you punished hard. The reason Ganon is good is because he can kill you in just a few hits. So you really need to play safe/ gay against a really good Ganon. However once you learn the matchup more I'm sure you will do just fine.
Hope this helps! If you have any questions contact me on AIM or PM me. My AIM is Gamewiz199. Happy smashings!!!
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I quoted this so my sig would appear.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Give me a few days to practice the MU, I'm really bad at it right now.
I'll be happy to **** you then.
I'll be happy to **** you then.
JesusFreak
Smash Hero
Lolz how do you have to practice Sheik vs Marth? That **** is free <3
Kanelol
Smash Lord
watch that one match of m2k vs. that really bad ganon
it's pretty ez
EDIT: If you're too lazy, nair a lot, fsmash his approaches
it's pretty ez
EDIT: If you're too lazy, nair a lot, fsmash his approaches
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
I think the whole MU is just, whoever approaches/attacks first loses.
stelzig
Smash Lord
AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
I looove Marth vs Ganon. It's my favorite matchup.
It can be tricky to get inside Ganon as he tries to keep you out with fairs, but once you get in, man oh man, you can grab to tech chase, keep him in the air, bulldog him as he tries to attack you out of the air(his moves have so much starting lag you can jump up fair/nair, sometimes on reaction, and keep shutting him out)
Even better if he goes on a platform, your speed and ability to shieldstab him(if he's shielding) can reeally hurt him. Try to time your aerial to keep tricking him. Delay that upair at the very latest so when he thinks he's safe, bam! If he tries jumping out of shield, full hop fair/bair takes advantage of his long jump animation and startups.
Then once he's off the stage, have fun!
It can be tricky to get inside Ganon as he tries to keep you out with fairs, but once you get in, man oh man, you can grab to tech chase, keep him in the air, bulldog him as he tries to attack you out of the air(his moves have so much starting lag you can jump up fair/nair, sometimes on reaction, and keep shutting him out)
Even better if he goes on a platform, your speed and ability to shieldstab him(if he's shielding) can reeally hurt him. Try to time your aerial to keep tricking him. Delay that upair at the very latest so when he thinks he's safe, bam! If he tries jumping out of shield, full hop fair/bair takes advantage of his long jump animation and startups.
Then once he's off the stage, have fun!
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
^That's what I was looking for. I think juggling him above me *****. Like Uair>Uair etc. Or Utilt>Uair>Uair w/e.
Thanks Ace <3
Thanks Ace <3
Run
Smash Cadet
Utilt>Utilt>Side Tilt> Fsmash
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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I love this matchup, as Ganon.
Like even though Ganon doesn't have an infinite on Marth, just hitting Marth feels soooooo good man. It's like a drug, and I want you guys to try it sometime.
When Ganon grabs you at 0%, he has a short chaingrab til like 15-20%, so getting grabbed at low %s can be a quick 40% right off the start if he finishes his chaingrab with an aerial. Simply put, don't do anything silly next to Ganon at low percents. In fact it really should just go without saying, but getting grabbed by Ganon sucks for Marth. Free aerials all day, and make sure you watch out at around 50% and make sure you don't let him U-smash you for free out of D-throw.
Plus, I love how Ganon's B-air just tends to be really good at outspacing most of Marth's aerials.
Like even though Ganon doesn't have an infinite on Marth, just hitting Marth feels soooooo good man. It's like a drug, and I want you guys to try it sometime.
When Ganon grabs you at 0%, he has a short chaingrab til like 15-20%, so getting grabbed at low %s can be a quick 40% right off the start if he finishes his chaingrab with an aerial. Simply put, don't do anything silly next to Ganon at low percents. In fact it really should just go without saying, but getting grabbed by Ganon sucks for Marth. Free aerials all day, and make sure you watch out at around 50% and make sure you don't let him U-smash you for free out of D-throw.
Plus, I love how Ganon's B-air just tends to be really good at outspacing most of Marth's aerials.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Thanks. Yeah retreating Bairs are too good lol.
AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
What are the DI's for ganon's grabs?
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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GENERALLY you want to DI away from Ganon. Especially at low percents, given that DIing towards him will make his chaingrab on you last longer.
UNLESS you think he's going to try to U-smash/F-air you. Getting killed at like 50% by his U-smash isn't funny if you're a floaty like Marth. Outside of the range where he could kill you with U-smash, generally he'll stick to U-air if you DI away from him. That is until he starts deciding to combo with F-air at high percents, at which point you want to DI towards him so that you eat his B-air instead.
Zodiac
Smash Master
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This match up is 60/40 marth. Ganon will bait you a lot, because he cant win this match any other way, dont challenge the fair unless you sure you can get to it before it comes out..even then... dont try it. When fighting ganon with any character I follow three basic rules
1.STAY AWAY FROM GANON
2.STAY AWAY FROM GANON
3. FOR GOD SAKE STAY THE **** AWAY FROM GANON
4. See rules 1,2,3 and 4
After that you basically have to bait him into using an aerial, or just about anything laggy you can punish with your range. the tricky party is choosing a move to punish with and doing it at the right percent. half the time they will CC jab you. There has been a lot of good info in this thread already so I'll close with this, STAY THE **** AWAY FROM GANON. If you were fighting someone with super strength would you let them hit you?
1.STAY AWAY FROM GANON
2.STAY AWAY FROM GANON
3. FOR GOD SAKE STAY THE **** AWAY FROM GANON
4. See rules 1,2,3 and 4
After that you basically have to bait him into using an aerial, or just about anything laggy you can punish with your range. the tricky party is choosing a move to punish with and doing it at the right percent. half the time they will CC jab you. There has been a lot of good info in this thread already so I'll close with this, STAY THE **** AWAY FROM GANON. If you were fighting someone with super strength would you let them hit you?
OverLord
Smash Ace
It's 50/50.
But yeah, stay away from Ganon.
But yeah, stay away from Ganon.
A2ZOMG
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Marth vs Ganon is a 40/60 disadvantage for whoever gets grabbed. Or Ken comboed/PUNCHED.
Seriously. Momentum swings really fast in this matchup once a good hit is landed. If Marth pulls out a successful tipper F-smash that Ganon wasn't expecting or lands a good combo and edgeguards consistently, Ganon doesn't like that. If Ganon simply PUNCHES Marth in the face and edgeguards consistently, Marth doesn't like that. Getting grabbed on both sides sucks a lot for both characters in different ways.
I think the Marth player has to be legitimately better than the Ganon to win consistently. Granted, Marth has a bit higher of a skill cap to reach so he does better in high level play, but I do think at slightly lower levels Marth has to work harder than Ganon to win this matchup. If Ganon combo DIs everything correctly, crouch cancels weak hits at low percents, and ledgetechs whenever possible, he's going to survive ridiculously long against Marth, and his ability to trade very favorably in this matchup is something that really can destroy Marth. Ganon only needs to land a few hits on Marth to either kill or set up Marth for a gimp.
Seriously. Momentum swings really fast in this matchup once a good hit is landed. If Marth pulls out a successful tipper F-smash that Ganon wasn't expecting or lands a good combo and edgeguards consistently, Ganon doesn't like that. If Ganon simply PUNCHES Marth in the face and edgeguards consistently, Marth doesn't like that. Getting grabbed on both sides sucks a lot for both characters in different ways.
I think the Marth player has to be legitimately better than the Ganon to win consistently. Granted, Marth has a bit higher of a skill cap to reach so he does better in high level play, but I do think at slightly lower levels Marth has to work harder than Ganon to win this matchup. If Ganon combo DIs everything correctly, crouch cancels weak hits at low percents, and ledgetechs whenever possible, he's going to survive ridiculously long against Marth, and his ability to trade very favorably in this matchup is something that really can destroy Marth. Ganon only needs to land a few hits on Marth to either kill or set up Marth for a gimp.
Acryte
Smash Ace
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OH MY GOD. I read this thread and decided to have some fun rapin a cpu ganon since I didn't have anyone to play and a few matches in, I start dashdancing, I dash in, he ganon punches me but it was a phantom, I start dashing out, ganon punches me but it was a phantom hit, back in, ganon punches me normal hit. I was like OH MY GOD. It happened so fast. had to be frame perfect jabs cuz it was 3 in a matter of moments lol. CPU ganon phantom hit jab > phantom hit jab > jab. what a combo -_-
FALCOMIST
Smash Ace
I feel this match up is either 50/50 or 60/40 Marth...
What I do in this match up is play patiently. I usually use the first min of my time during the match to figure out how the ganon is approaching but also how he is *trying* to bait u in in his favor. Some things u look out for is how ganon do double aerials before landing trying to keep u away but in the same time bait u into one of those b-airs.
if u Wanna approach ganon u must patiently find the opening. U MAY N-air passed him so that u can't get punished, but most of all... CATCH his double jump and combo him.
Gimps are pretty easy =D. Try to do some F-air into D-air or Fsmash to edgeguard him. Fsmash is OK but... if he is at low percents "40-60* what is that gonna do for u? He is off the stage and I think ganon at ANY percent off stage must never come back and die immediately.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uri-lz9yps - Here is a recent match up with me vs. Ganon.
I'm rusty since I only play at tourneys now... But also keep note that when your recovering, ganon has the edge over u when ur trying to get back. Ganon can just run off the stage, hitting u with Up-air, and if it trades with ur up-b yea... ur still dead =D. But in this video... I made a few mistakes against ganon, however keep note how I'm trying to bait or catch his double jump and how I'm dash dancing patiently to find the right opening. I don't play this game perfect... however I'm pretty sure you'll notice this. ALSO... When ur spacing aerials, space them so u can land and never get shield grabbed *common sense*. Good luck on the match up.
P.S. Sorry Bizarro flame that I'm using u as an example for this match >.>.
What I do in this match up is play patiently. I usually use the first min of my time during the match to figure out how the ganon is approaching but also how he is *trying* to bait u in in his favor. Some things u look out for is how ganon do double aerials before landing trying to keep u away but in the same time bait u into one of those b-airs.
if u Wanna approach ganon u must patiently find the opening. U MAY N-air passed him so that u can't get punished, but most of all... CATCH his double jump and combo him.
Gimps are pretty easy =D. Try to do some F-air into D-air or Fsmash to edgeguard him. Fsmash is OK but... if he is at low percents "40-60* what is that gonna do for u? He is off the stage and I think ganon at ANY percent off stage must never come back and die immediately.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uri-lz9yps - Here is a recent match up with me vs. Ganon.
I'm rusty since I only play at tourneys now... But also keep note that when your recovering, ganon has the edge over u when ur trying to get back. Ganon can just run off the stage, hitting u with Up-air, and if it trades with ur up-b yea... ur still dead =D. But in this video... I made a few mistakes against ganon, however keep note how I'm trying to bait or catch his double jump and how I'm dash dancing patiently to find the right opening. I don't play this game perfect... however I'm pretty sure you'll notice this. ALSO... When ur spacing aerials, space them so u can land and never get shield grabbed *common sense*. Good luck on the match up.
P.S. Sorry Bizarro flame that I'm using u as an example for this match >.>.
Arc was giving some pro strats. I played him with Ganon and he definitely exploited my aggressive tendencies. When played correctly Marth can eat Ganon's lunch, but the same goes for poor Marth if he gets overzealous and commits to a Ganon bait.
I personally love the matchup, I find it to be a trickfest, and it's a battle of wits since both characters can dominate the other given the smallest margin of error.
Ganon mains, if you're reading this, be sure to mix up your edgeguards! If Marth gets off the stage, there is no reason for him to come back, and if you let him back on, every hit he gets til that stock is gone is a freebie he shouldn't have got.
Also, Marth players. Listen to Arc, cause he destroys Ganons :/
I personally love the matchup, I find it to be a trickfest, and it's a battle of wits since both characters can dominate the other given the smallest margin of error.
Ganon mains, if you're reading this, be sure to mix up your edgeguards! If Marth gets off the stage, there is no reason for him to come back, and if you let him back on, every hit he gets til that stock is gone is a freebie he shouldn't have got.
Also, Marth players. Listen to Arc, cause he destroys Ganons :/
Bizzarro Flame
Smash Lord
no prob at all. i'm learning a bit of the match-up myself by reading this thread