Marth vs. Dedede

[xMiMix]

Well, I need some help against DDD.
My friend plays a pretty casual one, but none the less I can't seem to find a weakness I can exploit.
His general strategy is to throw his waddlewhatevers, then do his **** dair when ever, and sometimes he gets an usmash or a dsmash on me. I don't know whether I should stay on offense or defense. I did 5 matches against lvl 9 DDD, and I tried different strategies. I tried side b'ing him, which worked pretty well, then I tried to fair spam, worked ok. I tried gimping him with fairs, which didn't work too well. Then I combined all three, where if he was on the stage I would sword rain him, then once I get him off, I start edgeguarding / hogging, combined with my bairs to gimp the CPU. It worked well and I had 5 stocks remaining after doing that.
Now, before I go out and face my friend again, I would love to hear your opinions on what tactics I should stick to and at what times I should try to go for the kill or w.e.
I find that after he does his up b, he is pretty vulnerable, and if I approach from the side of him, I can stay pretty safe and put some damage on him.
Please help me, I appreciate any input.
Mikhail.

 

[Ced5000]

I have a friend who;'s also a D3 user and many times he camps by throwing his waddle dees and shield grabs me if I get close, what I usually do is use shield breaker to break his shield

 

[JesiahTEG]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=160991

That's all it takes, is scroll down the page a little bit, and post a question in the thread.

 

[xMiMix]

Ahh, a horrible mistake by me, my apologies.

I have a friend who;'s also a D3 user and many times he camps by throwing his waddle dees and shield grabs me if I get close, what I usually do is use shield breaker to break his shield

The problem with him is that he never uses his **** shield, and he always keeps his range, and runs away. Once I go after him he spams his only projectile and sometimes he gets one of those **** spikes, and those tend to KO me too early. So the whole fight I chase him, and I can't wait for him to come to me because he has a projectile.

 

[whut?]

i main ddd, i came here to tell you there is no way to beat him.
give up, maybe he will spare your life if you groom his waddles.
no, if you really have to fight him..
use but dont spam side b, counter, & nAir.
go for spikes more than you would, and if he uses upB go where he will land and hit with a charged Usmash. (ddd loses invincibility when hes falling)

edit-
the guide says you can escape his CG with upb, you cant if the CG is a dashing shield grab.

 

[xMiMix]

i main ddd, i came here to tell you there is no way to beat him.
give up, maybe he will spare your life if you groom his waddles.
no, if you really have to fight him..
use but dont spam side b, counter, & nAir.
go for spikes more than you would, and if he uses upB go where he will land and hit with a charged Usmash. (ddd loses invincibility when hes falling)

edit-
the guide says you can escape his CG with upb, you cant if the CG is a dashing shield grab.

Oh thanks, I noticed that I find myself spiking much easier, I suppose its because he is large himself, + the puffs are kind of small and my range is big so I can hit him pretty well with the back of my dair. Thanks dude.

 

[Mikey7]

What I like to do against D3 players if they camp me is down B and deflect the waddles and gordos as i approach D3, then when I get to D3 i jump really high and air dodge before I hit the ground instead of using a fair. Upon landing I quickly dodge or roll. The D3 player then has a couple options 1) counter attack usually dair 2) roll, dodge, shield, etc.

If he rolls or dodges, his spacing will be off, so I can punish him.

If he counter attacks with anything, use the shield, if I roll behind him he usually will not be able to chain grab me.

If he decides to attack me before I land my downard air dodge, instead of the air dodge, I press down B to deflect his attack or side B to initiate an attack.

D3's downsmash comes out really quickly, to counter it i jump over the hammer and usually nair. However to do this anticipation is required...when in doubt use the shield lol.

Fair spam in my opinion does not work too well because it does not combo very well.

Forcing D3 to use up B onto the stage is one of the best possible strategies to use...no explanation needed, it is easily punishable.

 

[xMiMix]

What I like to do against D3 players if they camp me is down B and deflect the waddles and gordos as i approach D3, then when I get to D3 i jump really high and air dodge before I hit the ground instead of using a fair. Upon landing I quickly dodge or roll. The D3 player then has a couple options 1) counter attack usually dair 2) roll, dodge, shield, etc.

If he rolls or dodges, his spacing will be off, so I can punish him.

If he counter attacks with anything, use the shield, if I roll behind him he usually will not be able to chain grab me.

If he decides to attack me before I land my downard air dodge, instead of the air dodge, I press down B to deflect his attack or side B to initiate an attack.

D3's downsmash comes out really quickly, to counter it i jump over the hammer and usually nair. However to do this anticipation is required...when in doubt use the shield lol.

Fair spam in my opinion does not work too well because it does not combo very well.

Forcing D3 to use up B onto the stage is one of the best possible strategies to use...no explanation needed, it is easily punishable.

Another awesome reply. Thanks very much man. He does his b up a lot in a match, and rarely but sometimes it happens and I get caught by it. It annoys me. And once I go for the punishing attack, the stars around him hit me, and my only real option is to counter them, but the range of them is too great. So I suppose I'll try approaching from air next time.

 

[Mikey7]

Another awesome reply. Thanks very much man. He does his b up a lot in a match, and rarely but sometimes it happens and I get caught by it. It annoys me. And once I go for the punishing attack, the stars around him hit me, and my only real option is to counter them, but the range of them is too great. So I suppose I'll try approaching from air next time.

No problem. Also if you find that for some reason you wont be able to avoid the up B or stars, you can also use down B just before he lands...it isn't much damage but at least you avoid getting hit and you can maybe follow it up with a fair.

 

[feardragon64]

The think about DDD is that he is a huge target. If you can hit him once, you won't neccesarly combo, but you CAN'T STOP. Often times, I find the best time to really start to press the attack is when he uses his up+b, stay right beside him in the air(NOT below him!), so that right when he lands you nail him with a tipped bair(ground attacks will be stopped by the stars coming out when he hits the ground). After that chase him like no other, and as said above, go for the spike if you can. If not, keep waiting for the opportune moment to slip in that tipped fsmash or dsmash if his damage is high enough. =]

As for actual approach, mind games. If he's at the edge of the stage and spamming waddles, and you come at him, he HAS to move PAST you on a vertical plane, just toy with him a bit if you can never get it. Get really close, and back off for a second. Most likely, he'll try and do the "jump over/under you" tactic to get past you again and end up landing right where you backed up to. It's a matter of outsmarting and predicting =]

Best of luck!

 

[xMiMix]

Ahh, I see. And I tried the down b right before he lands, although I counter a star, it seems like they hit several times because I still get hit by them. I will play with him tomorrow and tell you of my concerns. Feel free to post anything you wish, any help appreciated.

 

[Mikey7]

Ahh, I see. And I tried the down b right before he lands, although I counter a star, it seems like they hit several times because I still get hit by them. I will play with him tomorrow and tell you of my concerns. Feel free to post anything you wish, any help appreciated.

Hmm...if that's the case it might be better to actually run directly under D3 if you are 100% sure that you are going to get hit then use down B, otherwise an approach from the air seems more advantageous.

On a side note I was using D3's up B when a CPU Marth jumped directly under me and used down B, he then proceeded to try to fair me, however i was able to air dodge forward and use D3's backward A tilt kick to knock him off the stage immediately afterwards, so if you do use down B, do not try to follow up with a fair.

 

[xMiMix]

Thanks, I'm off to play against him. I'll check what works with the counter best.

 

[Waddle]

Dont get grabbed And grab a lot.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

WTF is a sword rain?

 

[Waddle]

Probably talkin about Dolphin Slash or w/e you call it (UpB).

 

[xMiMix]

Naw, I was talking about side b combo, for some reason I like to call it that.
Sorry.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

Oh, that makes sense then.

 

[xMiMix]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (insert more laughs here)
Well, I played him. I 3 stocked him (5 stock match).
Instead of going aggressive on him, I stayed back and played defensively.
I approached with fairs against his up b, right before he lands I'm already short hopping.
I never got to meteor him though. I gimped him a couple of times, but mainly I stayed back, and he would randomly do a fsmash, which I roll though, and then punish.
I'm not sure why I couldn't beat him before. Its as if i got confidence from this thread. Thanks guys. Near the end, he no contested because he couldn't take it anymore. (hes the type of guy who no contests because he messes up a dair and dies, or messes up his dedecide and dies.. -_-;
I appreciate all the help. His bowser is no problem for me.. Now to kill my other friend's lucas. Exia 00's :D
But I'll save that discussion for another day.
Once again, thanks.

 

[Waddle]

Kool .

 

[∫unk]

Against Lucas, learn the chain grab (might be infinite if your opponent doesn't know how to get out of it). Also, counter is your friend (watch for Lucas when he pulls his hands back for the kamehameha/pk fire).

 

[BacklashMarth]

If you want, this weekend if you're not busy i can fight you with my lucas to help you out. I give better advice this way since i can see what you do and dont to in the video if i record one. Still havent added you yet for the tutoring but I will friday.

 

[xMiMix]

If you want, this weekend if you're not busy i can fight you with my lucas to help you out. I give better advice this way since i can see what you do and dont to in the video if i record one. Still havent added you yet for the tutoring but I will friday.

That would be great. I'm free this week end, and I've added you and still waiting. Thanks.