Marth Match-Up Discussion (Update: ZSS!)

[Shaya]

Honestly think it's a better match up for Marth than it was in Brawl.
His bair no longer freely gimps/edgeguards us off stage while we recover.
His ftilt is no where near as detrimental/hard for us to outspace.
Maybe it's luck, but grabbing his gyro reactively seems easier.
His weaknesses in size and slow recovery + being juggled are literally the only things Marth has left in this game he can abuse.
Short hop air dodge aerial gets in almost too easily to boot.
~

Rosalina?
Hmm.
We can kinda see why it's a good match up for Marth (it's been hyped as such on numerous occasions).
In short (heh), Rosalina's height is amazing for us. Our weakness in aerial variations is reduced significantly as we can freely move in and around full hop range as well, late aerials? OH MY GOD YES ITS WHAT I WANTED FOR CHRISTMAS.
Hit lag modifiers can catch out unsuspecting Rosalinas when hitting Luma. In particular, down tilt and forward tilt become pretty potent in reactive footsies.
The gambit move for us is shieldbreaker, as otherwise rosalina does tend to outrange us and we can struggle with her dash attack if she isn't playing respectfully. It'll cleanly hit through luma and hit Rosa, usually tippered outside her + Luma's range (if latched on). Her being able to die to this at 90% due to her obscenely low weight is game changing.
Most moves on Marth's shield can be punished while Rosa doesn't necessarily get the best punishes in the same situations.
Marth with dash assault probably counters her as it can reactively deal with ANY movement she makes and one shots Luma.
In general marth will try to play patiently, try to destroy Luma (tons of ways to, only some of which I've mentioned) and then go ham on the girl. Covering landings/juggling her is a cinch.

Her recovering to the ledge is very poor as it doesn't automatically sweetspot close to ever.
It's very easy to time dash attack to sweep her everytime (forcing her to eventually recover on stage), or going for dtilt, fsmash or dsmash. Yes. Guaranteed tipper kill set ups. Dsmash is pretty good because it's release window is only TWO frames, so stalling before recovery from Rosa can usually be reacted to easily.

 

[adamlon1]

I honestly think the Marth Rosalina matchup is quite even because of Rosalina's height and weight it's quite easy for Marth to juggle her and combo her but the main variable in this matchup is Luma as he can keep Marth away using Side B and Neutral B not to mention that Luma Smashes hurt like hell and can probably give Rosalina the edge when it comes to the neutral but Kill her luma and it's easy pickings for Marth. I would say this matchup is probably in Rosalina's favor because of her advantage in the Neutral Game with Luma but once you knock Luma out you can get juggles and can easily get an edgeguard no problem without Luma so I would say this matchup is 45-55 in Rosalina's favor.

 

[mario123007]

Marth's blade range is shorter than Brawl and Melee, attacks are quicker than Rosalina, without Luma, Marth has slightly more advantage, with Luma, then it's Rosalina.
I give 40:60

 

[adamlon1]

I am just gonna put this out there even though we are not talking about this Character and that is that the sheik matchup is close to even yet still in Sheik's favor now let me explain, Sheik can't use bouncing fish on stage because marth can easily counteract that with a Counter or an F-tilt or even a Jab but it's easy pickings when it's off stage unless your'e out of tumble in which case counter that bouncing fish. A big gambit in this matchup are the all mighty needles as Sheik can camp you out with her needles but when pressed in a scenario it really depends on the stage but on FD it is really easy for Sheik to camp you out but in stages with top platforms just get up on top and force her to come up and fight you like a man (or a woman in sheik's case). Now with Sheik's edgeguards it's gonna be tough getting on stage but when you are in a position where she can hit you with her bouncing fish use Counter but if she goes in deep and continuously Bairs just take her with you and go for the risk do the all mighty Dair or just use the safe approach and find a way to make her use her jump but if you don't have time you are dead but hey she might be dead too so you technically could get a kill. But enough of that I think that the matchup against sheik is in Sheik's favor with 40 - 60 mainly because her ground game depends on the stage and if you pick a stage with a top platform it limits her options slightly when it comes to needle camping and using Bouncing fish as well as grenades.

 

[Random4811]

We can bat away Luma without too much issue. We don't have any projectiles for gravitational pull to **** with, so there goes one of Rosa's more useful specials. Without Luma, Rosalina is tall enough for us to mess with pretty easily, and its pretty easy to get some tippers on her. Shieldbreaker is /wonderful/ in this MU. I would never put DA on Marth for this MU (unless one of Rosluma's customs constitute wanting it). Rosluma's light weight means easy uthrow kills, tipper uair, and tipper utilt kills.

I'd say its like 60:40 in Marths advantage at least, but I'd be willing to give Marth more points with more experimentation with the MU. I used to get a lot of exp, but I dont see a lot of Rosluma mains anymore.

Also, Rosilina's recovery is stupid. Its so fast that it is nearly impossible to gimp offstage. I hate it.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I honestly think Marth vs Rosalina is a difficult MU for Marth. I would have to say it is 35-65 in Rosalina's favor despite what everyone else says. Everyone says her height makes it easy to combo her,but I think her weight actually makes it difficult to do that since they will get sent too far to be able to try to follow up with a down throw. Even if you grab her she can still make the Luma hit you to escape.

The neutral game can be fairly difficult against her if the player keeps the Luma close to them thanks to Rosalina's range on her smash attacks and the Luma having EVEN MORE range on those attacks. The Luma can just protect Rosalina from Marth's attacks and grabs like I mentioned before.

When Marth has her off stage it is not that big of an advantage either, her recovery is quick making it difficult to punish and the Luma can potentially keep you from going off stage if it is positioned correctly.

When she has Marth or really any other character off stage, she has a LOT of tools to edgeguard you. She can use her down air to spike you since it goes far under her and she can make her luma go to the ledge and also do a down air to spike you. Her nair and fair can easily end your stock, and once again the Luma can keep you off stage without Rosalina risking and SD or punish.

Basically Marth vs Rosalina is not a fun battle for Marth.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Marth's blade range is shorter than Brawl and Melee,
I give 40:60

I'm fairly certain that is a misconception.

Anyway, the only real problems I've had with rosy when I'm marth are when she gets RIDICULUSLY low % KOs off the top with a baited up air, since I'm not a great player this happens a lot. I feel the MU is even personally without much to back myself up on except tippers are stupidly easy to get on her.

 

[mario123007]

I'm fairly certain that is a misconception.

Yeah... but he is quite heavier in SSB4, but anyway, thanks for your correction.

 

[Charls]

Rosaluma is a godsend in a meta were most top tiered characters steamroll us. Like has been said here, Rosalina's low weight coupled with her tall height makes for very easy tippers in a variety of situations were they would otherwise not be available, for example, when she recovers on the edge. Luma can very easily be sent off the edge with a quick Fair or Ftilt eliminating those oh so annoying additional hitboxes for a little while. At first glance, we shouldn't be having any problems with Rosaluma.

There's a reason Rosa is so potent in this game however. Even with the ease of access to tippers her large hurtbox provides, the space Luma covers can make it quite frustrating to actually get into Rosalina's zone. Once Luma is out of the picture, she isn't exactly harmless by herself either. Rosalina has the tools to space well and still holds enough power to secure stocks. Rosalina could also just wait out the time for Luma's respawn while she avoids Marth's options on stage. All in all the matchup seems even, possibly 55/45 Marth's favor at best. Rosalina and Luma have the tools to keep Marth cautious but not indefinitely, and Rosalina's specs don't do her any help either.

 

[Freelance Spy]

There's a reason Rosa is so potent in this game however. Even with the ease of access to tippers her large hurtbox provides, the space Luma covers can make it quite frustrating to actually get into Rosalina's zone. Once Luma is out of the picture, she isn't exactly harmless by herself either. Rosalina has the tools to space well and still holds enough power to secure stocks. Rosalina could also just wait out the time for Luma's respawn while she avoids Marth's options on stage. All in all the matchup seems even, possibly 55/45 Marth's favor at best. Rosalina and Luma have the tools to keep Marth cautious but not indefinitely, and Rosalina's specs don't do her any help either.

With customs on it's a lot easier to accomplish this.

 

[Random4811]

I honestly think Marth vs Rosalina is a difficult MU for Marth. I would have to say it is 35-65 in Rosalina's favor despite what everyone else says. Everyone says her height makes it easy to combo her,but I think her weight actually makes it difficult to do that since they will get sent too far to be able to try to follow up with a down throw. Even if you grab her she can still make the Luma hit you to escape.

The neutral game can be fairly difficult against her if the player keeps the Luma close to them thanks to Rosalina's range on her smash attacks and the Luma having EVEN MORE range on those attacks. The Luma can just protect Rosalina from Marth's attacks and grabs like I mentioned before.

When Marth has her off stage it is not that big of an advantage either, her recovery is quick making it difficult to punish and the Luma can potentially keep you from going off stage if it is positioned correctly.

When she has Marth or really any other character off stage, she has a LOT of tools to edgeguard you. She can use her down air to spike you since it goes far under her and she can make her luma go to the ledge and also do a down air to spike you. Her nair and fair can easily end your stock, and once again the Luma can keep you off stage without Rosalina risking and SD or punish.

Basically Marth vs Rosalina is not a fun battle for Marth.

Her aerials come out a lot slower than ours do though, as her hitboxes are "late" which means we shouldnt be getting edge-guarded by her very easily at all. Luma is pretty easy to get rid of. Shield breaker just plows right through him if he's really eating up all your attacks, though. Luma really isnt that much of a threat for off-stage. Bair and nair take care of her before her aerials should be hitting you, so long as you throw them out fast enough.

Its a hard match-up if you dont know what to do with it. It certainly seems bad for Marth at first glance. However, Mars can exploit Rosluma pretty easy.

 

[adamlon1]

Rosaluma is a godsend in a meta were most top tiered characters steamroll us. Like has been said here, Rosalina's low weight coupled with her tall height makes for very easy tippers in a variety of situations were they would otherwise not be available, for example, when she recovers on the edge. Luma can very easily be sent off the edge with a quick Fair or Ftilt eliminating those oh so annoying additional hitboxes for a little while. At first glance, we shouldn't be having any problems with Rosaluma.

There's a reason Rosa is so potent in this game however. Even with the ease of access to tippers her large hurtbox provides, the space Luma covers can make it quite frustrating to actually get into Rosalina's zone. Once Luma is out of the picture, she isn't exactly harmless by herself either. Rosalina has the tools to space well and still holds enough power to secure stocks. Rosalina could also just wait out the time for Luma's respawn while she avoids Marth's options on stage. All in all the matchup seems even, possibly 55/45 Marth's favor at best. Rosalina and Luma have the tools to keep Marth cautious but not indefinitely, and Rosalina's specs don't do her any help either.

The more I play against Rosalina and Luma the more I actually start to think that Charls is right about this matchup and the more I was wrong about this matchup as Marth's counter can remove neutral B out of the picture and since we don't have any projectiles that removes down B out of the picture and since side B isn't a really noticeable multi hit attack like Peach's down smash we can counter Luma and possibly converting it to an edgeguard. Her main way of approaching the dash attack is also quite predictable and can be read easily with a counter same goes for her neutral B.

 

[Quickhero]

Definitely a skill matchup, but overtime, Rosalina and Luma became from a bad matchup to at least a 50/50. While Luma is around, you need to focus on making sure that you can hit at an area where you can safely hit Luma (generally you'll hit Luma with n-air or f-air) while avoiding as much punishment as you can, as otherwise Rosalina's "armor" given by Luma will make her grab you and be stupidly annoying with her u-air. Waiting until Luma isn't behind Rosalina is the most optimal for Marth to safely hit so make sure to force Luma to be positioned in front before engaging. Stages with stable platforms (i.e Battlefield) are even better for this because Marth has an easier time using his sword to hit through the platform unpunished. Once you take out Luma just focus on using f-airs or baiting an f-air to get a situation to grab, and just get by taking her off-stage. Rosalina is hard to punish off-stage, but without Luma she cannot punish you that hard either, and thanks to her weight and height, using n-air to f-air or possibly F-Smash if near the ledge and you should just win the matchup.

It requires a lot of patience though, and if Rosalina can get a grab on you if you mess up at the beginning you can easily see yourself getting trapped yourself by Rosalina (and Luma) u-airs or f-air. This is especially potent because Rosalina does have the tools to just stall for Luma which basically means that you have to be extra cautious and really capitalize on any mistakes Rosalina makes before she gets Luma back and you make a mistake yourself. Practice makes perfect in this matchup, and for the love of god don't succumb to BNFS.

 

[Xinc]

Mainly I feel the main problem in this matchup is trying to bait out and separate luma from Rosalina and make sure Luma is separated well enough so Rosalina doesn't play too defensively. Marth wants to divide the Rosalina's attention and get a miscalculation.

Sure, you can kill Luma, but that just encourages Rosalina to play defensively to respawn Luma.

Make sure Luma is positioned in a bad location before you commit. Overall, I used to think Rosa won the matchup but due to the tools Marth has, plus the tipper to remind Rosalina he's no joke, the matchup is looking more like 60-40.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Her aerials come out a lot slower than ours do though, as her hitboxes are "late" which means we shouldnt be getting edge-guarded by her very easily at all. Luma is pretty easy to get rid of. Shield breaker just plows right through him if he's really eating up all your attacks, though. Luma really isnt that much of a threat for off-stage. Bair and nair take care of her before her aerials should be hitting you, so long as you throw them out fast enough.

Its a hard match-up if you dont know what to do with it. It certainly seems bad for Marth at first glance. However, Mars can exploit Rosluma pretty easy.

Even though the luma is easy to kill, it just makes Rosalina run away until the luma comes back. Rosalina is still a threat without the luma since her smash attacks are pretty powerful and have good range. It is really less about her aerials and more about how it can be difficult to get past her defense. Marth can't really wait or force her to leave herself open for an attack, because she is also waiting for Marth to leave himself open to attack, but the difference is that Rosalina does not need to leave herself open to punish Marth since the luma can do the dirty work while Rosalina is chilling in the back.

 

[BATMN]

Advise against aggressive characters, Falcon, Shiek, Sonic!

Thanks!

 

[Locuan]

Advise against aggressive characters, Falcon, Shiek, Sonic!

Thanks!

Hey there. First of all, welcome to Smashboards. I moved your post here, to the Marth Match-Up Discussion Thread. Please utilize this thread whenever you have any questions regarding match-ups. Additionally, if you go to the first page of this thread, you will see that we have already covered the Falcon match-up. We have a lot of information regarding that match-up on this thread. If you go to the Lucina Match-Up Thread, you can also find information on the Sonic Match-Up. Due to both Lucina and Marth's similarities that may be able to help you out.

 

[BATMN]

Thank you! I'm sorry, I did not see that

 

[FullMoon]

Hello Marth mains. We from the Greninja boards are going to discuss the Marth MU and we would appreciate any input you guys could give us http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...cina-shulk-sword-mii-2-17-2-23.369356/page-12

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

What would you guys say about the jigglypuff MU? I don't know if I should feel ashamed for having trouble in this MU or not,but in general I have trouble against jigglypuff thanks to her annoying lingering hitboxes and how good she is at gimping. What do I do? I can't really space her out since she can just short hop fair over my d tilt and punish my fairs with her own if it fails to hit her.

 

[Locuan]

Thread updated! Thanks everyone for your input on the Rosalina Match-Up.

What would you guys say about the jigglypuff MU?

On it. This weeks discussion period, we focus on the match-up against Jigglypuff! Let's get started everyone!

 

[CHOVI]

I don't have much experience in the Marth matchup, but I find it's easier to fight marth as jigglypuff than as other characters because she can't be comboed in the air very well (the only good Marth I've fought uses a lot of fairs/nairs).
Also, Jigglypuff has to be very weary of shield breaker; however, it's not that much of a problem since she can crouch under it.

 

[Jiggly]

I find the matchup to be close, probably a 55-45 marth's favor personally.

+ Marth has better aerial range than Jigglypuff, and since that is where she excels, it's a nice thing to have.
+ A tipper uncharged Fsmash can kill Jiggly around 50% from the middle of FD
+ Shield breaker kills puff if shield is broken
+ Due to puff dipping in and out with attacks, spacing usually isn't an issue with tippers

- Marth is heavier, making him easy jiggs combo food
- Marth aerials are pretty slow, so jiggs can get in easily if you don't space correctly or whiff an aerial.
- Shield breaker is dangerous this MU, because a good jigglypuff will duck under the blade, and SH rest punish you.

It's a pretty close match. I feel like since Marth has the longer range, and he oftentimes forces puff to play his game, he has the slight advantage.

 

[JarOfPlasma]

Jigglypuff has to play very patiently to avoid getting tippered in this match-up. Otherwise, Jiggs will eat a tipper and die at 50%-60%. Jiggs gets out-ranged and has a hard time getting in if the Marth is playing properly.

Marth has a lot of shortcomings in this match-up though. Marth has the unavoidable problem of being tall. This makes WoPs easier to abuse. Add to this issue his bad recovery and you end up with a need to keep center-stage at all times and wall out with aerials.

Now, I'm not sure if you guys are taking customs into account in these match-ups, but if so, the match-up is most likely worse. Sideways Pound gimps easily because of Marth's bad horizontal recovery.

I think this match-up is in Jigglypuff's favor, but if the Marth plays smart, managable. 40-60, Puff.

 

[Link24a]

Both are kinda pathetic characters and all, but puff has far better recovery and honestly any of her aerials just stop his recovery completely. Marth's edge guarding/gimping isn't nearly as good or effective. So puff wins offstage completely

In the neutral, Marth wins. Yeah, dthrow Uair stops soon, but he can keep spacing fairs, bairs, and ftilts to get pretty good damage. Jiggly loses in range definitely, and fsmash, usmash, and even uthrow work well for killing.

I know this game is very neutral based, but I have a hard time telling whether marth's semi-dominance in the neutral or Jigglypuff's significant dominance offstage is more important... I'll put it tentatively as 60:40 puff, I'd maybe give Marth the advantage if tippers weren't so hard to land

 

[adamlon1]

The Jigglypuff MU is quite straight forward in my opinion because both characters are playing the patient game because Marth doesn't want a rest in his face and Jiggs does not want a tipper F Smash in his face so it is a very defensive and patient matchup. In the neutral game Marth wins just by using his aerials and tilts
Despite the fact that Jiggs has an amazing off stage game so does Marth with his aerials so it's more tied then people originally think it to be however if Marth whiffs an aerial it shifts into Jiggs favor but Jiggs doesn't have to worry about that too much because of her near lagless moves and long hitboxes.
Jigglypuff needs to play in the right mix between defense and offense because if she shields too much Shield Breaker will comes out of nowhere and kill Jiggs but if she plays too offensively she can get juggled and combo'd by Marth so Jigglypuff needs to play Marth's game.
If Marth gets a tipper F-smash on Puff it's lights out for her and with Marth's range it's hard for Jigglypuff to get in so I would say that this Matchup is 55-45 in Marth's favor because Marth's slight advantage with range and can still sort of keep up with Jiggs off-stage and Marth has the advantage in Neutral so I would think this Matchup is quite decently close but Marth would win because of his Range, Neutral stance, Aerials, Tilts and his F smash to close out the deal.

 

[Charls]

Jigglypuff can stick to the air all she wants; Marth has the tools he needs to deny her entry and press our space without putting himself at risk. Our hero king is shock-full of anti-air neutrals so as long as he stays grounded, Jiggly is cosniderably less menacing. Jab, Ftilt, and Utilt (Fsmash too if you're feeling bold) to a lesser extent make Jigglypuff's aerial pokes that much riskier for her. Fair, rar Bair, and Nair can also contest her in the air, but if whiffed present a larger window to get punished, and as we know by now Marth's disadvantaged state is not pretty. Jigglypuff can juggle us for days on end when she gets the chance and her potent edgeguarding forces us to recover very carefully. Likewise we have a very good edgegame that demands respect, but against Jiggly this is diminished by her outstanding aerial mobility.

What few combos or easy strings Marth has wane out early because of Jigglypuff's weight, but otherwise nothing that she has outright stops our gameplan. At worst, Jiggly will just jump away from any trap scenarios we atempt to set up. Our disjoint makes leaving our effective range for her tricky though. Leaning towards 55:45 as many have already expressed. Depending on how Jigglypuff's metagame develops and this matchup is played out in the future it may even out, as both characters want to punish an approach rather then intiate one; either one will end up overcomitting eventually.

Also Shieldbreaker is hilarious.

 

[Link24a]

We should mark this 5:5 because that seems to be the average

 

[Random4811]

Marth has advantage for sure, I'd actually go out on a limb and say 60:40 Marths favor. Jiggly on the ground is stupid easy for Marth to take care of. Dtilt traps get puff even when crouching, ppivot grab while puff is doing something stupid like rolling too much gives us a good number of free percent, our smashes are better than hers, even untippered, and jigs is super light. Usmash is going to be pretty useful here on reads, because of the way it scoops up opponents. Foxtrot Usmash will be really good here/running usmash. It should scoop jigs up even when crouching, and if she tries SH rest to punish, she should be getting punished back pretty hard.

Jig's size is going to make tippers a lil harder to land in the air, but the way she extends her hurtbox with certain moves (namely fair/pound) is going to make that less of a problem when going to punish. We outrange Puff by a good measure. Dealing with her offstage is going to be pretty easy for us. With good spacing, Puff isnt going to be able to get into our guard very well. Juggling her is absolutely possible, she cannot challenge our uair with any of her moves. SB is a good aerial poke that Puff gets killed by pretty early at the tip. The most important thing for Marth to do in the air is stay under jigs, in range to uair. Never use your double jump near puff offstage if you can avoid it. Getting out of one of her walls shouldnt be too hard for you with some good DI and smart play.

Edgeguarding Jigs can be kind of hard depending on where she recovers from. if she is recovering really high, you cant do much but wait and see where she ends up. However, if she recovers near the ledge or just above it, utilt, fsmash, usmash, dtilt, DB down, and SH fair all work pretty well for guarding ledge recovery.

IMO Jigs doesnt have great kill power, and thats another thing that sets her back against Marth. He can kill pretty early with rage, and jigs is really light so she'll die earlier than a lot of characters.
This especially applies to his Uthrow, which is very valuable in this MU because it can kill puff stupid early off of the top of several stages.

 

[Jiggly]

Marth has advantage for sure, I'd actually go out on a limb and say 60:40 Marths favor. Jiggly on the ground is stupid easy for Marth to take care of. Dtilt traps get puff even when crouching, ppivot grab while puff is doing something stupid like rolling too much gives us a good number of free percent, our smashes are better than hers, even untippered, and jigs is super light. Usmash is going to be pretty useful here on reads, because of the way it scoops up opponents. Foxtrot Usmash will be really good here/running usmash. It should scoop jigs up even when crouching, and if she tries SH rest to punish, she should be getting punished back pretty hard.

Jig's size is going to make tippers a lil harder to land in the air, but the way she extends her hurtbox with certain moves (namely fair/pound) is going to make that less of a problem when going to punish. We outrange Puff by a good measure. Dealing with her offstage is going to be pretty easy for us. With good spacing, Puff isnt going to be able to get into our guard very well. Juggling her is absolutely possible, she cannot challenge our uair with any of her moves. SB is a good aerial poke that Puff gets killed by pretty early at the tip. The most important thing for Marth to do in the air is stay under jigs, in range to uair. Never use your double jump near puff offstage if you can avoid it. Getting out of one of her walls shouldnt be too hard for you with some good DI and smart play.

Edgeguarding Jigs can be kind of hard depending on where she recovers from. if she is recovering really high, you cant do much but wait and see where she ends up. However, if she recovers near the ledge or just above it, utilt, fsmash, usmash, dtilt, DB down, and SH fair all work pretty well for guarding ledge recovery.

IMO Jigs doesnt have great kill power, and thats another thing that sets her back against Marth. He can kill pretty early with rage, and jigs is really light so she'll die earlier than a lot of characters.
This especially applies to his Uthrow, which is very valuable in this MU because it can kill puff stupid early off of the top of several stages.

You say this as if puff will stay on the ground. Marth is tall enough for Jiggs to still use easy SH aerials on him. Up Smash isn't too helpful either, cuz any good puff knows that attacking an opponent from above is a terrible idea. Your matchup rating is close to what I think, but your reasoning for a lot of points is incredibly flawed.

 

[Random4811]

You say this as if puff will stay on the ground. Marth is tall enough for Jiggs to still use easy SH aerials on him. Up Smash isn't too helpful either, cuz any good puff knows that attacking an opponent from above is a terrible idea. Your matchup rating is close to what I think, but your reasoning for a lot of points is incredibly flawed.

Mhh, Usmash scoops up though. we dont need tipper to do damage. We outrange puff, so a marth playing safe wont have a huge problem with SH aerials.

 

[CanadianCourage]

Guys, I'm new but we are forgetting that puff can kill us at 60% with a rest. If he predicts us we can lose a life fast, and he has combos into rest as well.

 

[Random4811]

Guys, I'm new but we are forgetting that puff can kill us at 60% with a rest. If he predicts us we can lose a life fast, and he has combos into rest as well.

Rest is the hardest read in the game. Its more likely that we'll get 3 tipper Fsmash's in a row then that they'll land a rest punish
and since when did Jigs have combos into rest in Smash 4?

 

[CHOVI]

Rest is the hardest read in the game. Its more likely that we'll get 3 tipper Fsmash's in a row then that they'll land a rest punish
and since when did Jigs have combos into rest in Smash 4?

Well we have Dair into rest

 

[Jiggly]

Rest is the hardest read in the game. Its more likely that we'll get 3 tipper Fsmash's in a row then that they'll land a rest punish
and since when did Jigs have combos into rest in Smash 4?

at high percents, jab 1 to sh rest is a combo

due to marth being kind of heavy, sour fair to rest can be a combo

rest has combos for it, its just that no one reps puff so its not well known.

 

[adamlon1]

Jigglypuff's rest is definitely something to keep an eye out for but with Marth's range and Aerials he can space Jiggs out and keep her away but as soon as you whiff anything and I mean anything Jiggly will Dair to rest you just like that but Jigg's at the same time needs to beware of his Tipper F-Smash because if Jiggly whiffs a sing or a rest on stange it's over and in the off-stage game if a Marth goes for the risky Dair or any aerial he gets punished hard with any of jigg's aerials and if Jigglypuff whiffs any aerial tipper Fair or Shield Breaker in Jigg's face and with Jigg's lightness she can most certainly die from a tipper uncharged shield breaker or a tipper fair at 90% or a 100%.

 

[CanadianCourage]

Guys I know that this is a dumb question but can we counter rest, or not?

By the way I did the calcs and the average % up throw kills the rest of the cast is 162%, some over some under but I find that this is a good guideline.

 

[Locuan]

Hey @ CanadianCourage , first of all welcome to Smashboards. I merged your posts. Be wary with double posting as it is against Smashboards Terms of Service and Rules. Whenever you have more information to add to your post, use the edit function.

 

[Zethoro]

Hi there from the Jigglypuff forums! While I'm definitely not the best Jiggs to get advice from, I have several people whom I battle with frequently who main Marth.
...let me just say this is one of your best matchups in the game, and probably Jiggs' hardest one.

MARTH VS JIGGLYPUFF: 70;30

Here are Jigglypuff's strengths in this MU.
Jiggs:
-Difficult to Gimp
-Floaty (combo strings aren't happening against Jiggs.)
-Great aerial toolkit
-Rest is an amazing punish tool, killing by 60% (40 with full rage)
- Amazing lasting hitboxes in NAir and Pound
-Faster in the air than Marth
-Can gimp Marth easily
-


Now for Marth:
-Out ranges Jiggs in midair
-Shield Breaker can kill Jiggs at any % if Jiggs gets too shield-happy.
-Tippers are just outside of Jiggs range on most attacks.
-Tippered FSmash kills at around 50%.
-Very good at keeping Jiggs away and is hard to bait into overcommitting, something Jiggs is very good at.
-Counter for good mixups.


So as you can see, while Jiggs has her own advantages, Marth can keep her out due to the fact that he's one of the three characters with better aerials than Jiggs, and if you shut out Jiggs aerials, you've shut out Jiggs, basically. FAir is key here, use it intelligently, and DON'T just throw out a laggier attack like FSmash if you think the Jiggs is approaching, unless you're VERY confident. Jiggs thrives on weaving in and out, baiting the opponent into an attack that gives her the opportunity to punish with an aerial or rest for the KO. Jiggs is good at two things; zoning and punishing, two things you Marth mains are very familiar with, just with more range and less mobility. Beat her at her own game, play patiently, and stay rigid on playing it safe. Risky won't pay off against experienced Jigglypuff mains, and will generally get you killed.

 

[Random4811]

at high percents, jab 1 to sh rest is a combo

due to marth being kind of heavy, sour fair to rest can be a combo

rest has combos for it, its just that no one reps puff so its not well known.

And these are true combos, not strings?