Luck-NYC/NJ
Smash Lord
I'd like to know who Mario has the most trouble against. if u dont want to think of a long essay about who counters mario just make a small list of his 3 biggest counters and put why next to it?
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Mario's Worst Match-Up's
- Thread starter Luck-NYC/NJ
- Start date
- Status
the_air_up_there7
Smash Ace
Well marth is..... But I always pwn him with falco.supermariopro101
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2005
- Messages
- 385
^ That a rather elaborate post you have there.
Man I haven't been here in awhile.
Okay I will try to make this as short and sweet as possible. Mario's counters usually will have greater reaches than Mario and better combos. Mario's worse matchups are: Fox,
Peach, Sheik, Marth, and Samus.
1. Fox
Difficulty (5 out of 5)
Why: Mario's problem in this matchup is the unbelievable Shine Spike that can kill you instantly and his speed. Also Fox's AUA will make you have to DI like heck. The best approach would be to keep your jumps to a minimum and use attacks that cover a good range without a lot of lag. Ftilts will work wonders against him. Try to chain your grabs. His fastfalling allows for multiple grabs and you can punish him but good. Use fast attacks that don't take a lot of start-up time like Dsmash. If you are in the air and are about to be pummeled by a Fox's uair use a dair to outprioritize it (Requires fairly good timing). The main focus is his speed so get in some quick hits and always be ready for that shine spark.
2. Peach
Difficulty (5 out of 5)
Why: This girl can beat you in so many ways that it's not even funny. Her Dsmash can run you up 60% if you aren't careful. Her projectile turnip can deal 36% (if she gets the Grandpa). Her aerials are a whole lot better than Mario's. When you fight peach use guerrila warfare aka hit-and-run. Her crouch-canceling and recovery can keep her in well in the game while you struggle to avoid dying. Fsmash and ftilt hare good because of her short range ground attacks. If you can SHABAWD use this as a way to get away from her.
3. Marth
Difficulty(5 out of 5)
Why: Marth's sword range can **** Mario worse than blowout football game. Mario has short range as it is and when you match that up to a powerhouse range like Marth's, you have one of Mario's worst match ups. Getting inside Marth's range will be your main goal here. His Fsmash is quick and does massive amounts of damage as well as knocking you back several HUNDRED feet. If you anticipate an Fsmash, spotdodge and counter with a quick Dsmash and go all out, otherwise you will eat another one of his sword attacks. Repeat this process a few times and get him off the edge. Marth does not have a very good recovery so it should be pretty easy from there. Do not jump a whole lot unless you plan on getting whacked by Marth's his sword.
Man I haven't been here in awhile.
Okay I will try to make this as short and sweet as possible. Mario's counters usually will have greater reaches than Mario and better combos. Mario's worse matchups are: Fox,
Peach, Sheik, Marth, and Samus.
1. Fox
Difficulty (5 out of 5)
Why: Mario's problem in this matchup is the unbelievable Shine Spike that can kill you instantly and his speed. Also Fox's AUA will make you have to DI like heck. The best approach would be to keep your jumps to a minimum and use attacks that cover a good range without a lot of lag. Ftilts will work wonders against him. Try to chain your grabs. His fastfalling allows for multiple grabs and you can punish him but good. Use fast attacks that don't take a lot of start-up time like Dsmash. If you are in the air and are about to be pummeled by a Fox's uair use a dair to outprioritize it (Requires fairly good timing). The main focus is his speed so get in some quick hits and always be ready for that shine spark.
2. Peach
Difficulty (5 out of 5)
Why: This girl can beat you in so many ways that it's not even funny. Her Dsmash can run you up 60% if you aren't careful. Her projectile turnip can deal 36% (if she gets the Grandpa). Her aerials are a whole lot better than Mario's. When you fight peach use guerrila warfare aka hit-and-run. Her crouch-canceling and recovery can keep her in well in the game while you struggle to avoid dying. Fsmash and ftilt hare good because of her short range ground attacks. If you can SHABAWD use this as a way to get away from her.
3. Marth
Difficulty(5 out of 5)
Why: Marth's sword range can **** Mario worse than blowout football game. Mario has short range as it is and when you match that up to a powerhouse range like Marth's, you have one of Mario's worst match ups. Getting inside Marth's range will be your main goal here. His Fsmash is quick and does massive amounts of damage as well as knocking you back several HUNDRED feet. If you anticipate an Fsmash, spotdodge and counter with a quick Dsmash and go all out, otherwise you will eat another one of his sword attacks. Repeat this process a few times and get him off the edge. Marth does not have a very good recovery so it should be pretty easy from there. Do not jump a whole lot unless you plan on getting whacked by Marth's his sword.
Pine
Smash Ace
i disagree with the fox being the hardest....but whatevs
maelstrom218
Smash Lord
There was a thread with the exact same subject a while back. . .if anyone cares to search for it and drudge up what was said then, the same things should still apply.
Basically, Mario has problems against characters that 1) have incredible range/priority, 2) are extremely floaty, and 3) have excellent recovery.
Range Priority Issues
The range/priority issue is a problem for Mario simply because he tends to be a short-ranged character. None of his aerials have the kind of distanced range that, say, Falcon's n-air or Doc's b-air has. Go into AR and you'll see that the hitbox size for his attacks--including his grab--is abysmally small. What this means is that anytime Mario goes up against a character that has better priority/range, Mario is automatically disadvantaged, because he'll have a hard time getting in close and starting the combos he needs to win.
Floaties
Floaty characters also present a serious problem. Remember that Mario is, in essence, a character that trades in KO power for sheer combo potential. Without combos, Mario's crap. I was in a mini-tourney today, where I had to fight a Ganon. . .I focused too much on being evasive, and I got 3-stocked. When I played the same guy 30 minutes later, I focused on grabs and combos only--and I won.
The point here is that Mario requires combos in order to win. When you're up against floaties, Mario's combo potential significantly drops, because his shffl'd u-air chains, u-tilt/u-smash/u-throw convential comboing doesn't apply any more--they just float right out of it, and n-air. Against floaties, Mario's game is reduced to relying on very simple hits instead of the extensive combo game that most people associate with him, and he suffers for it.
Characters with Excellent Recovery
Mario can't KO. He has low KO potential; therefore, anyone that has relatively decent recovery--like Samus, Jiggs, Peach--are going to pose something of a problem for Mario, simply because he can't kill them as quickly as he would like. They keep coming back, they soak up more damage, while Mario has to try and KO in a stupid game of attrition, hoping that he'll KO before he accumulates any more damage. It's not fun.
Keeping all of this in mind, just figure out which characters belong in 2 or more of these categories, because these are all areas in which Mario suffers. . .he has crappy range, has better combos on fastfallers as opposed to floaties, and can't KO. Therefore, any character that has great range, is floaty, and has excellent recovery poses a threat to Mario.
So, if I had to pick out who Mario has trouble with the most, it'd be:
1) Marth
Marth has great range, and is pretty floaty. . .and though Mario can combo him relatively well, the problem is that his f-air will break through all of Mario's combos. About 95% of the fight is trying to get inside sword range, which is already a huge problem, since his grab and hitbox range all exceeds yours. . .but even if you do get inside, his floatiness and f-air make combo'ing nigh impossible. Really hard matchup IMO.
2) Peach
Peach has great priority, excellent recovery, and she's also floaty. . .I'm fairly convinced that Peach amounts to something of a Mario counter, in some way or another. Everything that Mario has, Peach has--but better. Better aerials, better combos, better projectile, better recovery. . .Mario just suffers in this matchup because he won't be able to get in clean hits, he can't combo, and she just won't die. Luckly, u-tilt and shffl'd u-airs *sort of* do well in ranging against float-cancelled aerials, but again, it's Peach. It's not an easy matchup.
3) Samus
Samus fits into all 3 categories, but luckily enough, Mario does have the advantage of speed in this matchup. It's very much possible to put enough pressure on Samus so that she'll have little time for missile-cancel setups, and force her to rely on her melee game entirely. Shffl'd u-airs, selective caping of missiles and sheer speed make this matchup a lot less scary than Peach or Samus. . .but still, her sex kick and bombs make comboing incredibly difficult, and KO'ing her--especially on stages like DL64--is a nightmare.
Jiggs deserves an honorable mention in there somewhere too. It's lucky for all of us that it dies relatively early, so that kind of evens out the playing field.
And supermariopro, Fox isn't really a difficult matchup for Mario. It's about even, perhaps with a slight advantage on Fox's side. Yeah, Fox has all that cheap ****, but Mario has equally cheap stuff as well. U-throw chaingrabbing into combos is what Mario does best, and Fox really suffers from that. Of course, it boils down to whether or not Mario can actually grab the Fox in the first place. . .but provided that he does so, the matchup isn't nearly as awful as you're suggesting.
Basically, Mario has problems against characters that 1) have incredible range/priority, 2) are extremely floaty, and 3) have excellent recovery.
Range Priority Issues
The range/priority issue is a problem for Mario simply because he tends to be a short-ranged character. None of his aerials have the kind of distanced range that, say, Falcon's n-air or Doc's b-air has. Go into AR and you'll see that the hitbox size for his attacks--including his grab--is abysmally small. What this means is that anytime Mario goes up against a character that has better priority/range, Mario is automatically disadvantaged, because he'll have a hard time getting in close and starting the combos he needs to win.
Floaties
Floaty characters also present a serious problem. Remember that Mario is, in essence, a character that trades in KO power for sheer combo potential. Without combos, Mario's crap. I was in a mini-tourney today, where I had to fight a Ganon. . .I focused too much on being evasive, and I got 3-stocked. When I played the same guy 30 minutes later, I focused on grabs and combos only--and I won.
The point here is that Mario requires combos in order to win. When you're up against floaties, Mario's combo potential significantly drops, because his shffl'd u-air chains, u-tilt/u-smash/u-throw convential comboing doesn't apply any more--they just float right out of it, and n-air. Against floaties, Mario's game is reduced to relying on very simple hits instead of the extensive combo game that most people associate with him, and he suffers for it.
Characters with Excellent Recovery
Mario can't KO. He has low KO potential; therefore, anyone that has relatively decent recovery--like Samus, Jiggs, Peach--are going to pose something of a problem for Mario, simply because he can't kill them as quickly as he would like. They keep coming back, they soak up more damage, while Mario has to try and KO in a stupid game of attrition, hoping that he'll KO before he accumulates any more damage. It's not fun.
Keeping all of this in mind, just figure out which characters belong in 2 or more of these categories, because these are all areas in which Mario suffers. . .he has crappy range, has better combos on fastfallers as opposed to floaties, and can't KO. Therefore, any character that has great range, is floaty, and has excellent recovery poses a threat to Mario.
So, if I had to pick out who Mario has trouble with the most, it'd be:
1) Marth
Marth has great range, and is pretty floaty. . .and though Mario can combo him relatively well, the problem is that his f-air will break through all of Mario's combos. About 95% of the fight is trying to get inside sword range, which is already a huge problem, since his grab and hitbox range all exceeds yours. . .but even if you do get inside, his floatiness and f-air make combo'ing nigh impossible. Really hard matchup IMO.
2) Peach
Peach has great priority, excellent recovery, and she's also floaty. . .I'm fairly convinced that Peach amounts to something of a Mario counter, in some way or another. Everything that Mario has, Peach has--but better. Better aerials, better combos, better projectile, better recovery. . .Mario just suffers in this matchup because he won't be able to get in clean hits, he can't combo, and she just won't die. Luckly, u-tilt and shffl'd u-airs *sort of* do well in ranging against float-cancelled aerials, but again, it's Peach. It's not an easy matchup.
3) Samus
Samus fits into all 3 categories, but luckily enough, Mario does have the advantage of speed in this matchup. It's very much possible to put enough pressure on Samus so that she'll have little time for missile-cancel setups, and force her to rely on her melee game entirely. Shffl'd u-airs, selective caping of missiles and sheer speed make this matchup a lot less scary than Peach or Samus. . .but still, her sex kick and bombs make comboing incredibly difficult, and KO'ing her--especially on stages like DL64--is a nightmare.
Jiggs deserves an honorable mention in there somewhere too. It's lucky for all of us that it dies relatively early, so that kind of evens out the playing field.
And supermariopro, Fox isn't really a difficult matchup for Mario. It's about even, perhaps with a slight advantage on Fox's side. Yeah, Fox has all that cheap ****, but Mario has equally cheap stuff as well. U-throw chaingrabbing into combos is what Mario does best, and Fox really suffers from that. Of course, it boils down to whether or not Mario can actually grab the Fox in the first place. . .but provided that he does so, the matchup isn't nearly as awful as you're suggesting.
supermariopro101
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2005
- Messages
- 385
I must disagree. Fox still provides a heck of a matchup for Mario no matter how you put it. There really is no suggestion for when you get hit with the shine spark because it sends you in a random direction. Now when you can get in a quick grab. I agree that A WHOLE new set of options are open but I don't see very many foxes getting grabbed, especially when his speed gets in the way.
I, however, respect your posts so... I will compromise.
Revised...
1. Peach
2. Marth
3. Fox
I, however, respect your posts so... I will compromise.
Revised...
1. Peach
2. Marth
3. Fox
The Cape
Smash Master
1. Sheik
2. Marth
3. Peach
Thats the hardest in order.
2. Marth
3. Peach
Thats the hardest in order.
Silent Wolf
...
I agree with Cape, and then I'd say from Eggz' I've learned that Jpuff is gay too.
Pine
Smash Ace
ya thats a good order from the cape...i would say samus next and fox somewherre in there like 5th...puff is extremely annoying for the same reasons as peach and samus but she also dies faster and can not rest combo mario so its not that bad
supermariopro101 said ShineSpark in reference to the reflector (just plain ol' shine)... ShineSpark is a move from Metroid... oh well, it's the point that matters. I would say that the most difficult person to fight as a mario would be someone who has a move that he can't cape. Which is hard to do considering the cape's supreeme power.
supermariopro101
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2005
- Messages
- 385
Yeah I did say Shine Spark (Shine Spike) I've been playing too much Super Metroid lately. However, the cape is not going to be a difference in Mario's worst matchups. At least not a big difference. The cape is a move that Mario could lose and he would not be completely useless. I wouldn't want to cape a projectile from Samus, for example's sake, anyway.
Eggz
Smash Hero
1. Sheik
2. Jiggz
3. Peach
4. Samus
2. Jiggz
3. Peach
4. Samus
I don't see why everyone is putting Samus on the Mario Alert characters. I play against a mario, and he negates any missile or beam tricks that I can think of with his cape, which forces me into CQC with him (Crab Battle!). It is much more difficult like that, but is possible to win.
I would say stick with the big 3 for basically all players:
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Shiek
They are so unexplainably hard to defeat when it is someone on your level of ability or higher. I would always suggest these three as the most difficult enemies (But that is just me)
BTW Mariopro101, at least you have been playing a little too much of the best series, let alone 2d game of all time
I would say stick with the big 3 for basically all players:
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Shiek
They are so unexplainably hard to defeat when it is someone on your level of ability or higher. I would always suggest these three as the most difficult enemies (But that is just me)
BTW Mariopro101, at least you have been playing a little too much of the best series, let alone 2d game of all time
maelstrom218
Smash Lord
Wow, I forgot to put Sheik on the list. Oops. I guess that's what happens when no one plays Sheik in your area.
supermariopro, just because Fox has the shinespike, doesn't mean that he ***** Mario. If that were true, then Fox screws over Luigi, Falcon, Marth. . .basically, everyone with a relatively crappy recovery. Shinespikes alone don't determine the match.
Even shinecombos aren't as awful as you make them out to be. The shine can be sufficiently DI'd out of so that shine combos are nearly impossible. Provided that you DI away and don't happen to hold down, Fox can't waveshine into grabs or u-smashes.
The whole issue with Fox isn't the shine combos, or the shine spikes. Yeah, they're problematic, but they're problematic for EVERY character out there. The reason why Fox is difficult is because of his overpowered vert kills (u-smash, u-air), his insane pressure game, and his inability to be shield-grabbed.
Pressure comes from both Fox's speed and his drillshine lockdown. It's pretty easy to be overwhelmed by Fox's aerials/jabs/drillshine lockdowns, especially since one wrong move on Mario's part (the slightest bit of lag, or the smallest opening) means that Fox can capitalize on it. The inability to shield grab also screws over Mario, because now the only means to grab is through sheer mindgames--his speed and shine basically negate the majority of grab opportunities, making it harder to utilize the combos Mario needs.
Yeah, Fox can be rough, but it's only because of what I mentioned above--vert kills, pressure, and his distinct inability to be grabbed. And though those are pretty hefty advantages on Fox's side, Mario can pull off equally cheap **** once he grabs Fox.
It's not as awful a matchup as you think it is.
supermariopro, just because Fox has the shinespike, doesn't mean that he ***** Mario. If that were true, then Fox screws over Luigi, Falcon, Marth. . .basically, everyone with a relatively crappy recovery. Shinespikes alone don't determine the match.
Even shinecombos aren't as awful as you make them out to be. The shine can be sufficiently DI'd out of so that shine combos are nearly impossible. Provided that you DI away and don't happen to hold down, Fox can't waveshine into grabs or u-smashes.
The whole issue with Fox isn't the shine combos, or the shine spikes. Yeah, they're problematic, but they're problematic for EVERY character out there. The reason why Fox is difficult is because of his overpowered vert kills (u-smash, u-air), his insane pressure game, and his inability to be shield-grabbed.
Pressure comes from both Fox's speed and his drillshine lockdown. It's pretty easy to be overwhelmed by Fox's aerials/jabs/drillshine lockdowns, especially since one wrong move on Mario's part (the slightest bit of lag, or the smallest opening) means that Fox can capitalize on it. The inability to shield grab also screws over Mario, because now the only means to grab is through sheer mindgames--his speed and shine basically negate the majority of grab opportunities, making it harder to utilize the combos Mario needs.
Yeah, Fox can be rough, but it's only because of what I mentioned above--vert kills, pressure, and his distinct inability to be grabbed. And though those are pretty hefty advantages on Fox's side, Mario can pull off equally cheap **** once he grabs Fox.
It's not as awful a matchup as you think it is.
Eggz
Smash Hero
Mario's inabliity to be uthrow uair'd is also a definite bonus.
Dark Iori Yagami
Smash Lord
whatever i use mario and he is a awsome character he has two weekness only jiggs and samus
1 marth has a hard time dogeing projects especially from distances so stay away for one that causes an oppening. ex dream land try and use the ledges on the top
2 fox is the easiest because of his fast fall a few side smashes and he is history not to mention the cape will mess that boy up. He also can't up throw up air mario
3 peach she has no range and her vegeatables are slow so spaming fballs is a must for damage that makes you the one who now is in control plus you can grab those things and return them causing damage
4 sheik she is very heavy which makes it easy to juggle her off the ground and into the air like a glove.
samus and jiggs hve way more motion and attacks that destroys him
ex samus down smash is the worst move for mario
ex jiggs all arials stop mario in his tracks
ps that is it so says haunter
1 marth has a hard time dogeing projects especially from distances so stay away for one that causes an oppening. ex dream land try and use the ledges on the top
2 fox is the easiest because of his fast fall a few side smashes and he is history not to mention the cape will mess that boy up. He also can't up throw up air mario
3 peach she has no range and her vegeatables are slow so spaming fballs is a must for damage that makes you the one who now is in control plus you can grab those things and return them causing damage
4 sheik she is very heavy which makes it easy to juggle her off the ground and into the air like a glove.
samus and jiggs hve way more motion and attacks that destroys him
ex samus down smash is the worst move for mario
ex jiggs all arials stop mario in his tracks
ps that is it so says haunter
Eggz
Smash Hero
You sir, make no sense at all.
Juggle her into the air like a glove, may give this away. >_>
Juggle her into the air like a glove, may give this away. >_>
Dark Iori Yagami
Smash Lord
you mean im wrong or the statment makes no since, cause if you are a mario you would know mario is the counter pick to all
ps
ps
Eggz
Smash Hero
I mean your analogy makes no sense.
Dark Iori Yagami
Smash Lord
How come it dosen't make since, do you know who i am i'm iori of the bloold line and i am ranked #1 in my territory so trust me i know what i'm talking about.
ps huanter transforms into President hoover
ps
huanter transforms into President hoover
Eggz
Smash Hero
By territory do you mean house?
Luck-NYC/NJ
Smash Lord
HAHA im ranked number 1 in my territory so trust me. du u no who eggz is. anyway being good doesnt mean ur the most knowledgable using ur reputation as evidence as to why ur right is stupid and doesnt make sense. i think eggz is right and i think ur pretty s h i t t y.How come it dosen't make since, do you know who i am i'm iori of the bloold line and i am ranked #1 in my territory so trust me i know what i'm talking about.
ps
---> "i think THN is right **** u Iori go back to King of Fighters"Corrext, back where I'm from I was the best out of anyone (kinda because no one I played smash hardcore in WV) and I didn't even know what a WD was! Now when I go home, it is like letting a couger into a room full of baby cats who are blind.
maelstrom218
Smash Lord
Uh. . .I could write paragraphs and paragraphs about how what you're claiming is egregiously erroneous. About how your theory, and the reasoning behind it, is so completely absurd that should you ever try to compete in a high-level tournament, you would woefully rue your decision.
But I won't, because right now I'm sounding like an arrogant, pompous ***.
Suffice it to say that the majority of people here who have tourney experience, and who are actually good (and I'm not saying I'm one of them) agree that:
- Marth does reasonably well against projectiles mostly because of his f-air
- Fox, despite his relative ease of combo'ing, has early KOs on Mario and screws over his grab game
- Peach has massive priority/range, which is far, far greater than Mario's
- Sheik ***** Mario like a mutha****a
So, many of your claims were just plain incorrect. If you want to actually debate about it, make sure your info is valid first. Supporting claims with erroneous examples of information doesn't really help to bolster your argument.
Neither does claiming that you're ranked #1 in your territory. Because, we're all ranked #1 in our own territory if we define the space around us narrowly enough.
Luck-NYC/NJ
Smash Lord
OK enuf flaming. Wat i was really trying to get at was that my friend said samus was by far marios greatest counter and i didnt believe him. so i wanted to see how many people said samus. From now on please post specifically about how samus counters mario.
Eggz
Smash Hero
Okay. We were all on topic, so yeah. I wouldn't shoot down our efforts when all of us just made massive amounts of effort to your cause. Especially that baby kitten up there. He wrote like a thesis (mainly countering that one guy), like a champion. Thanks would be cool.
Anyway
Problems with Samus
1: I've learned that comboing is NOT a problem against samus. My floaty combos are too good. I'll post a vid against a floaty sometime. Jiggz is ****in gay though.
2: Samus is built around having a tricky recovery
Why is this a problem?
Mario gains most of his kills from edgeguarding. One of Samus' strong points is that she can't be edgeguarded at all. While you can edgeguard Samus, it is very difficult and takes ALOT of focus.
Suggestions to this problem?
Your going to have to be very patient.
First, Samus will use her bombs to get close to the stage. What you do to counter this is throw fireballs down there and aim for her or her bombs. This will disrupt her jumps and reduce her height dramatically.
Second, if negating the bombs fails you, she will be going for a grapple onto the stage (probably). So get yourself on the ledge, and make sure you keep your invincibility. When Samus gets close, drop down and do a bair. Since your invincible, shes hit no matter what. Now, without her grapple, this is easy.
Third, now that Samus probably doesn't have her grapple, she will be going for an up-b. What you do here is wait at the ledge for the up-b, and cape it. This will send Samus higher, just above the ledge. From here you can fsmash her. The cape sets her up for an fsmash you say? Zomg clod zero!
Annnnd thats how you ledgeguard a Samus.
3: Samus lives forever. Her superb recovery and heavy weight make it hard to kill her.
Why is this a problem?
Mario is KO ********. The fact that Samus' main strongpoint is her inability to die makes it even harder for Mario to get kills.
Suggestion to this problem?
Combo Samus to high percents (duh) and from there, just wait around, fireball spamming, until she does something laggy. At this point, you can either be quick and hope it kills and use a nair, or you can take a risk and fsmash or dsmash. I prefer dsmash over fsmash because im pretty patient and hate missing fsmashes and getting ***** for it.
So don't go for the kill until she is a very high percent, and dont do anything laggy.
4: Samus' CCC game.
Why is this a problem?
Mario relys on his vertical launchers alot, so you can't do anything unless its out of a fair or grab.
Suggestion to this problem?
Use more grab and double jumped fast falled fairs.
Am I getting anywhere near as good as Maelstrom yet?
Anyway
Problems with Samus
1: I've learned that comboing is NOT a problem against samus. My floaty combos are too good. I'll post a vid against a floaty sometime. Jiggz is ****in gay though.
2: Samus is built around having a tricky recovery
Why is this a problem?
Mario gains most of his kills from edgeguarding. One of Samus' strong points is that she can't be edgeguarded at all. While you can edgeguard Samus, it is very difficult and takes ALOT of focus.
Suggestions to this problem?
Your going to have to be very patient.
First, Samus will use her bombs to get close to the stage. What you do to counter this is throw fireballs down there and aim for her or her bombs. This will disrupt her jumps and reduce her height dramatically.
Second, if negating the bombs fails you, she will be going for a grapple onto the stage (probably). So get yourself on the ledge, and make sure you keep your invincibility. When Samus gets close, drop down and do a bair. Since your invincible, shes hit no matter what. Now, without her grapple, this is easy.
Third, now that Samus probably doesn't have her grapple, she will be going for an up-b. What you do here is wait at the ledge for the up-b, and cape it. This will send Samus higher, just above the ledge. From here you can fsmash her. The cape sets her up for an fsmash you say? Zomg clod zero!
Annnnd thats how you ledgeguard a Samus.
3: Samus lives forever. Her superb recovery and heavy weight make it hard to kill her.
Why is this a problem?
Mario is KO ********. The fact that Samus' main strongpoint is her inability to die makes it even harder for Mario to get kills.
Suggestion to this problem?
Combo Samus to high percents (duh) and from there, just wait around, fireball spamming, until she does something laggy. At this point, you can either be quick and hope it kills and use a nair, or you can take a risk and fsmash or dsmash. I prefer dsmash over fsmash because im pretty patient and hate missing fsmashes and getting ***** for it.
So don't go for the kill until she is a very high percent, and dont do anything laggy.
4: Samus' CCC game.
Why is this a problem?
Mario relys on his vertical launchers alot, so you can't do anything unless its out of a fair or grab.
Suggestion to this problem?
Use more grab and double jumped fast falled fairs.
Am I getting anywhere near as good as Maelstrom yet?
Dark Iori Yagami
Smash Lord
I am affended by your words i thought this was a open discusion thread not a buddy one and if that is how you fill i will show you the truth in my statement and i didn't use my # one rank to prove i'm right i did to say i have been playing just as long as you maybe and i have seen a lot of bad dinngo doo. Ask the cape he will tell you not just me. So then you can feel like a jurk.HAHA im ranked number 1 in my territory so trust me. du u no who eggz is. anyway being good doesnt mean ur the most knowledgable using ur reputation as evidence as to why ur right is stupid and doesnt make sense. i think eggz is right and i think ur pretty s h i t t y.
ps as for King of Fighters, if you fought me in smash i will destroy you
Eggz
Smash Hero
100$ mm.
Anyways, enough fighting.
And PLEASE Iori, for the love of god, start spelling things correctly.
It is open discussion, but its not about what we think, its about what we know. You said Mario only has 2 counters. Several pros (myself included) have found out otherwise, which is why we had such a negative reaction to your post.
Also, most communitys react negatively to the "Our character is the pwnz0r regardless of facts" type of posts...Except maybe the ness forums.
Anyways, enough fighting.
And PLEASE Iori, for the love of god, start spelling things correctly.
It is open discussion, but its not about what we think, its about what we know. You said Mario only has 2 counters. Several pros (myself included) have found out otherwise, which is why we had such a negative reaction to your post.
Also, most communitys react negatively to the "Our character is the pwnz0r regardless of facts" type of posts...Except maybe the ness forums.
Dark Iori Yagami
Smash Lord
I spell right. It is just you look at the situation wrong. Mario in the this game has the best stats accourding to the booklet so therfore he must be the best worst counter pick. His cape is the driving force in his power, and Eggz did you mean you want a 100$ mario money match.
ps change of prospective, think of mario as C.Falcon he has really the same moves and if by chance do you guys know the down a grab it is the best of mario's moves. Hau hau hau
ps change of prospective, think of mario as C.Falcon he has really the same moves and if by chance do you guys know the down a grab it is the best of mario's moves.
Hau hau hau
Eggz
Smash Hero
I am affended by your words i thought this was a open discusion thread not a buddy one and if that is how you fill i will show you the truth in my statement and i didn't use my # one rank to prove i'm right i did to say i have been playing just as long as you maybe and i have seen a lot of bad dinngo doo. Ask the cape he will tell you not just me. So then you can feel like a jurk.
ps as for King of Fighters, if you fought me in smash i will destroy you
In proper english: I am offended by your words. I thought this was an open discussion thread, not a buddy one. If thats how you feel, I will show you the truth in my statement. And I didn't use my #1 rank to prove that I'm right, just to prove that I've been playing as long as you, if not, longer. Ask the cape, then he will tell you. Then you can feel like a jerk.
Ok, judging by how poorly the wording is, even when edited for spelling and general grammar, I'll have to assume you are either A: 8 years old B: English isn't your primary language or C: You are ********
Which is it?
Now, regarding your last post more intimately...
The metagame of smash has advanced far beyond what the book says. Ever hear of the tier list? Advanced techniques? Mario is actually one of the worse characters the game has to offer. Hes like at the bottom of mid tier. Ranked like 11 or something? His cape is a piece of **** btw. All its useful for is recovery.
Yeah, 100$ Mario ditto money match.
ps as for King of Fighters, if you fought me in smash i will destroy you
In proper english: I am offended by your words. I thought this was an open discussion thread, not a buddy one. If thats how you feel, I will show you the truth in my statement. And I didn't use my #1 rank to prove that I'm right, just to prove that I've been playing as long as you, if not, longer. Ask the cape, then he will tell you. Then you can feel like a jerk.
Ok, judging by how poorly the wording is, even when edited for spelling and general grammar, I'll have to assume you are either A: 8 years old B: English isn't your primary language or C: You are ********
Which is it?
Now, regarding your last post more intimately...
The metagame of smash has advanced far beyond what the book says. Ever hear of the tier list? Advanced techniques? Mario is actually one of the worse characters the game has to offer. Hes like at the bottom of mid tier. Ranked like 11 or something? His cape is a piece of **** btw. All its useful for is recovery.
Yeah, 100$ Mario ditto money match.
Dark Iori Yagami
Smash Lord
Are you coming to insomnia, it is soon i think around the thirty of march if you are positive in your knowlege and mind we will see then but until then you have only what you know. I have no idea how to covince you so i just have to show you. addition to my speach of woords, i am not at skool so it dosen't matters how many mistakess i have in mien sentence and if that bothers you, you are a fool to waste your time on such doo.
ps i'll take c as the answer, for only a fool could truely understand this game.
ps i'll take c as the answer, for only a fool could truely understand this game.
Dark Iori Yagami
Smash Lord
Wow everyone cares about spelling that much ok offended shheesh
And there you have it folks, cory games his comment proves the fat mario is a beast hauh ahauh
And there you have it folks, cory games his comment proves the fat mario is a beast
hauh ahauh
Eggz
Smash Hero
Half the time I seriously dont know what the crap your trying to say.
I am not going to insomnia, but maybe you wanna watch my vids?
I am not going to insomnia, but maybe you wanna watch my vids?
Dark Iori Yagami
Smash Lord
Wow i saw some of your matches i was speechless. here is one of mine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh3gNWnFikQ ken is really good
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhczo4G70_Q
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9rJwkvTJ-4&mode=related&search=
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wXQ1acYT4s&mode=related&search= this guy in a macth is a beast
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVjAkaBzzj4&mode=related&search=
i had a crazy though what if there was a way to team, but oh well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh3gNWnFikQ ken is really good
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhczo4G70_Q
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9rJwkvTJ-4&mode=related&search=
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wXQ1acYT4s&mode=related&search= this guy in a macth is a beast
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVjAkaBzzj4&mode=related&search=
i had a crazy though what if there was a way to team, but oh well
Eggz
Smash Hero
That'd be way fun.
I like your doc actually.
I like your doc actually.
Dark Iori Yagami
Smash Lord
You have a unique mario its just you attack way to much esspecially to that peach you fought you were all over it but i could sence a dress. I'll record more of my mario matches so you can see mine.
ps its all in the tisk
ps its all in the tisk
Eggz
Smash Hero
Those are extremely old matchs you watched. Also friendlies in which I was going for combos. I play MUCH differently now/in tourney. Look at the ones I posted in the Mario section of these forums/use logic.
linkmastersword
Smash Lord
wouldn't ganon be a hard match up for the mario as well. he out ranges him pretty well and can get him off the level in an just a few hits. I know mario has the dthrow advantage. what do you guys think?
Eggz
Smash Hero
Mario has sick combos on Ganon, but Ganon's inability to die balances that out. Ontop of that, Ganon kills Mario in like 4 hits.
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