Mario's Moveset: Breakdown & Discussion (Session 21: Super Jump Punch + Customs)

[Xeze]

I go with the regular SJP always. Super Jump's lack of hitbox doesn't cut it for me and EJP nerfs your recovery so badly.
SJP can also be used as a edgeguarding tool to stage spike your opponent while recovering. It can be hard to tech on time being a multihit move.

 

[Darrman]

The Super Jump Punch. It's a very useful combo move, and it's fast and damaging. 12%? Yes please. Unfortunately, it's recovery distance is poor, so it's not that reliable a recovery move. Combined with a cape (esp. Gust Cape. I can use customs practicing against CPUs! But all my experience is FG.), he can recover decently. Super Jump gives distance, but lacks a hitbox. Is the distance worth the loss of a reliable offensive move? Your call. EJP? Very strong, but most seem to agree it's not worth it as Mario's recovery is terrible. At least it's still better then Mac's. I remember when everyone was gushing all over EJP back in like, the 3DS era. A2ZOMGxEJP 4ever! But in all seriousness, the recovery nerf isn't worth it. All and all, I use SJP because it's fast, reliable at finishing combos, and I'm a FG scrub. But you can use whatever you want! They al have merits.

 

[mario123007]

I go with the regular SJP always. Super Jump's lack of hitbox doesn't cut it for me and EJP nerfs your recovery so badly.
SJP can also be used as a edgeguarding tool to stage spike your opponent while recovering. It can be hard to tech on time being a multihit move.

It requires a good timing to sage spike your opponents with this move.

 

[Luggy]

Session 21: Super Jump Punch Specials

Spoiler

Super Jump Punch

Spoiler

Frame 3- 6: 5%
Frame 7- 7: [1%]x3
Frame 10-11: [1%]
Frame 14-15: 3%
Max Damage: 12%

Super Jump-Acts upon Frame 3.
-No Hitbox

Explosive Punch
Frame 5- 5: 8%
Frame 15-15: 13%
Max Damage: 21%

Discussion on the Super Jump Customs can begin now.

The UpB is an interresting move to customize, but only 2 of them really stands out. Here's my top 3 though :

• 1-Super Jump Punch : The basic of the basic, and for me the most useful of them all. The Super Jump Punch can be used for ending combos and recovery. Yes, the distance isn't the best, the move doesn't KO until super high percents, and it can be gimped easily since it's a very predictable move, it's still one of the best tools for Mario. A viable move to use in basic combos and mix-ups, can be used OOS (not as good as his Doctor counterpart, but still) and decent for recovery, the Super Jump Punch is the best UpB you can have for the plumber.

• 2-Explosive Punch : A fun alternative, though not that viable. The explosive punch gives Mario both a KO move and a better OOS option. It's crazy how fast this move can kill, and with good timing, you can even combo with it, or do a weird mix-up with it. But of course, more power means less recovery. Not only the distance is shorter, but you can't even angle it properly. You simply can't reverse it. This kills the viability of the move. Mario needs more, but he also needs a safer recovery. He doesn't have a lot of option to go back on stage, and reducing it will only make Mario worse and not better. Still a fun move to use with your friends in wacky matches just to laugh at how ridiculous the killing power on it is insane, but not viable in tournament play.

• 3-Super Jump : As I said earlier, Mario needs power, but also recovery. The Super Jump is the exact opposite of the Explosive Jump. Instead of having big power and no recovery, it has no power whatsoever but goes super high. While the move might look viable at first to make Mario finally go deeper to get the kill, it removes a lot of utility that both the Super Jump Punch and Explosive Punch gave to the plumber. In a situation where you need to rack up damage, this UpB won't help you. The move can even be more punishable, since the move has no hitbox to protect Mario. Overall, it's the worst UpB you can have. It has less utility than the two other moves, and for what it gives you, it's not even worth it. I guess giving it a hitbox at the end of the move, like the custom Tornado for Doc, would have helped the move to look a bit more viable. But it has none. So instead, this UpB is just straight out boring and not even good. Poor Super Jump, you don't even deserve the adjective "Super" for us.

That's my opinion, feel free to disagree.

 

[BSP]

I stick with default up B for the reasons already mentioned. Its versatility is too much to give up.

I haven't seen Super Jump Punch's invincibility mentioned. This is important to keep in mind, because with good timing, the move can theoretically beat anything except major disjoints. It used to be the fastest OoS up special in smash, but I think Mac and Pac-Man take that title this go-around.

 

[Xeze]

Now post-CEO many top players are arguing that customs should always be off. What do you guys think? Will the future of Sm4sh be custom-less (after EVO)?

 

[MarioMeteor]

Oh hey, Mystic, you remembered this exists.
Super Jump Punch - This is probably the safest of the three options because of its balanced strength and recovery options. It's also a decent out of shield option and it's damn near impossible to edgeguard Mario because of the constant hitbox on this one. It's also a very effective combo finisher and an even more effective combo breaker.
Explosive Punch - This I find to be the worse of the Punches solely because it nerfs Mario's recovery, and between the SJP and Cape distance nerf from Brawl to 4, a nerfed recovery is the absolute last thing Mario needs. The reliable KO option is nice, though. Fun fact: Doc's EP and Luigi's FJP are both stronger than this one.
Super Jump - This is my Punch of choice because the added distance alleviates any vertical recovery issues and when combined with Gust Cape, any horizontal ones as well. It adds layers to Mario's offstage game just because of the sheer fact that he can afford to go deeper offstage without risk of SD. Super Jump Punch isn't known for its offensive capabilities anyway, so the lack of a hitbox isn't TOO big of a loss. Not to me, anyway.

 

[BSP]

Now post-CEO many top players are arguing that customs should always be off. What do you guys think? Will the future of Sm4sh be custom-less (after EVO)?

I'm beginning to lean more anti custom myself because of reasons, but I don't see them lasting long competitively. A huge pain to unlock, some are extremely polarizing / arguably OP, bleh.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Now post-CEO many top players are arguing that customs should always be off. What do you guys think? Will the future of Sm4sh be custom-less (after EVO)?

What happened at CEO? Although I'm pretty sure this is just people doing what they do best: whine.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The Super Jump Punch. It's a very useful combo move, and it's fast and damaging. 12%? Yes please. Unfortunately, it's recovery distance is poor, so it's not that reliable a recovery move. Combined with a cape (esp. Gust Cape. I can use customs practicing against CPUs! But all my experience is FG.), he can recover decently. Super Jump gives distance, but lacks a hitbox. Is the distance worth the loss of a reliable offensive move? Your call. EJP? Very strong, but most seem to agree it's not worth it as Mario's recovery is terrible. At least it's still better then Mac's. I remember when everyone was gushing all over EJP back in like, the 3DS era. A2ZOMGxEJP 4ever! But in all seriousness, the recovery nerf isn't worth it. All and all, I use SJP because it's fast, reliable at finishing combos, and I'm a FG scrub. But you can use whatever you want! They al have merits.

EJP's main problem isn't the nerf to Mario's recovery. The distance on EJP is actually sorta acceptable for recovery, and Custom Capes also help. The problem with EJP is that it's slower and also actually requires relatively situational spacing to connect properly, and it also can't be reversed the same way as default. So it actually can't punish as many things as default.

Plus it's obsoleted by Shocking Cape, which provides effectively the same thing as EJP (an aerial KO move) except it's more flexible.

 

[Luggy]

Now post-CEO many top players are arguing that customs should always be off. What do you guys think? Will the future of Sm4sh be custom-less (after EVO)?

It's probably gonna be custom-less, since both the community and developpers don't really care about them.

On one side, we got the community who can't decide wich path to take. It creates more problems that it should have done.
On the other, we have the developpers who barely touch them and don't even add customs for DLC characters. Great for promoting the feature, am I right ?

I feel that custom moves needed much more work. If every custom move were like Palutena's, it would have been easier to put them competitively I think. Instead, not only the feature feels rushed, but they are too unbalanced with each other. They are not equal, there will always be one better than the other on each character. If there was more work put on the custom moves, they could have been accepted. But looking at them right now, I feel that the feature could have possibly worked competitively, but was too complicated to work on with so little time to develop the feature.

That's my opinion though, feel free to disagree with me.

 

[GoldenMasterSword]

Strictly speaking of SJP, I would prefer the power of EJP on SJP, given that quite a few characters have equally powerful up Bs as their default move (mumble mumble ZSS Sheik mumble mumble). EJP would also be fine if it didn't have obscene endlag such that you couldn't control his horizontal momentum immediately after he starts falling, but I suppose that is its main weakness.
Customs as a whole do seem to be extremely rushed and formulaic. Palutena seems to be the only character with actual variety with her customs, while others simply have polarized versions of their default moves. Of note that DLC characters have absolutely no custom moves (but Mewtwo looked like he was intended to have some), which makes their ban at EVO even more confusing to me.
But the thread is about SJP at the moment, so moving on c:

 

[mario123007]

What happened at CEO? Although I'm pretty sure this is just people doing what they do best: whine.

Or post a black banner on your avatar after whining.

Hm.. what happened to this thread? It isn't updating...