Mario's Moveset: Breakdown & Discussion (Session 21: Super Jump Punch + Customs)

[HeroMystic]

Mario's Moveset: Breakdown & Discussion

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This thread is used for a systematic discussion of Mario's moveset, piece by piece, and to discuss how they can be applied optimally in each situation they are usable. Right now, I will be allowing up to three days per session. To ensure speedy discussion, these can end sooner if we feel all has been said about the move. After those three days, I will update the OP applying everyone's input, then move on to the next piece of Mario's moveset.

Also, it's okay to talk about other moves if they synergize well with the move in discussion.

Current Schedule

• Session 01: Jab
• Session 02: Dash Attack
• Session 03: Down Tilt
• Session 04: Up Tilt
• Session 05: Forward Tilt
• Session 06: Down Smash
• Session 07: Up Smash
• Session 08: Forward Smash
• Session 09: Grab & Pummel
• Session 10: Down Throw
  
• Session 11: Up Throw
• Session 12: Forward Throw
• Session 13: Back Throw
• Session 14: Neutral Air
• Session 15: Up Air
• Session 16: Down Air
• Session 17: Back Air
• Session 18: Forward Air
• Session 19: Fireball, Fast Fireball, Fire Orb

References

SmashRiver64's Moveset Analysis
Complete Hitbox & Frame Data For Every Character
Mario Video Thread
Custom Moves Discussion
Low% Combos Theorycraft Thread

 

[HeroMystic]

Session 01: Jab

Jab 1 Frames: f2-f3
Jab 1 Damage: 2.5%

Jab 2 Frames: f2-f3
Jab 2 Damage: 1.5%

Jab 3 Frames: f7-f8
Jab 3 Damage: 4%

Total Damage: 8%

Discussion about Jab can begin now.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Punishes spotdodges easily and interrupts some of the slower grabs after N-air. Also an easy followup after aerials, D-throw at 0%.

Jab canceling generally leaves you at a slight frame disadvantage in this game, making followups from Jab cancels risky. It is still an option to consider during juggle situations where catching someone in the air with a Jab can lead to nice frame traps.

Autojabbing at specific spacings on some characters occasionally can lead to Jab2 whiffing and causing you to juggle your opponent repeatedly with Jab1, which is nice when it happens as this can sometimes net slightly more damage than a full Jab combo.

 

[HeroMystic]

For a Jab combo, the damage is pretty decent, but the impressive part is Jab 1's frame data. Comes out on frame 2, and the recovery is incredibly low. For this reason, I tend to use this as sort of a panic button when approached and I got no other options except for shield. Stuffing an aggressive approach such as a dash grab with Jab 1 can open up opportunities for a follow-up if your opponent is caught off-guard, or it can allow you to immediately reset to neutral.

I also like to Jab1 to D-tilt as a mix-up because players tend to wait for the full jab combo and let their shield go down, allowing for a shield poke.

Generally, there's no reason to go from Jab1 to Jab2 and then cancel since that's a higher frame disadvantage than Jab1 cancels, but mixing up jab1 cancels and Jab2 cancels is a good way to keep your opponent guessing. However, this all depends on what you've downloaded about your opponent, and if you're not at that stage yet, it's always safer to go for a full jab combo.

 

[BSP]

Remember that jab locks are in this game from Brawl, except that opponents will get up on the fifth hit if try to continue the lock after 4 bounces.

Mario's jab 1 can jab lock if you hit with his arm, but the opponent will pop up and out if you hit them with his fist. Stay close to them when you're locking.

I'm not sure about jab 2 or jab 3 in regards to locking properties. I don't risk doing them.

 

[HeroMystic]

I'm not sure about jab 2 or jab 3 in regards to locking properties. I don't risk doing them.

Jab 2 also locks (at the arm's hitbox). Jab 3 does not. I can confirm this after I did some tech-chasing against some opponents on Wi-Fi.

 

[mario123007]

Jab 2 also locks (at the arm's hitbox). Jab 3 does not. I can confirm this after I did some tech-chasing against some opponents on Wi-Fi.

You mean in 1on 1 battle right?

 

[HeroMystic]

You mean in 1on 1 battle right?

That's correct.

 

[mario123007]

That's correct.

I rarely go play 1 on 1 over these past few months, I only got 1 win in 11 matches so far.
I don't really care much about jabs in battle, but I would like to know more tips or combos related to jab.

 

[HeroMystic]

I rarely go play 1 on 1 over these past few months, I only got 1 win in 11 matches so far.
I don't really care much about jabs in battle, but I would like to know more tips or combos related to jab.

You should definitely use Mario's Jab in 1v1. It's not the best in the game (that belongs to Little Mac, Fox and Falco), but it's definitely high up there and Jab1 is among one of Mario's safest moves to throw out.

You can D-throw > Jab at 0% and it'll do more damage than D-throw > U-tilt. (Not recommended)
You can N-air > Jab as well.

Anyway, this is mostly reguritated info from what was already said, so lets move on.

Session 02: Dash Attack

Dash Attack(Early) Frames: f6-f9
Dash Attack(Early) Damage: 8%

Dash Attack(Late) Frames: f10-f25
Dash Attack(Late) Damage: 6%

Discussion about Dash Attack can begin now.

 

[smasher1001]

Well, dash attack lasts awhile so if you're not sure if you can time a grab off of someones roll or a reverse upsmash it's a pretty ok option to hit someone with, and since it brings mario low to the ground in some rare instances you can make someone miss you as they attack from above, generally there is usually a better option though in most cases.

My favorite use though is depending on how the opponent grabs the ledge you can spike them off the stage with it and get obscenely early % kills, though it does seem to be inconsistent since the oponent can try to grab the ledge from safer spots that can avoid this.

 

[mario123007]

You should definitely use Mario's Jab in 1v1. It's not the best in the game (that belongs to Little Mac, Fox and Falco), but it's definitely high up there and Jab1 is among one of Mario's safest moves to throw out.

You can D-throw > Jab at 0% and it'll do more damage than D-throw > U-tilt. (Not recommended)
You can N-air > Jab as well.

Anyway, this is mostly reguritated info from what was already said, so lets move on.

Session 02: Dash Attack

Dash Attack(Early) Frames: f6-f9
Dash Attack(Early) Damage: 8%

Dash Attack(Late) Frames: f10-f25
Dash Attack(Late) Damage: 6%

Discussion about Dash Attack can begin now.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Dash attack is generally your fastest option for punishing rolls, people hanging on the ledge, and on certain characters you can combo into it after F-throw at 0%. Sometimes an okay whiff/oos punish against poorly spaced pokes. Given how it's really unsafe on block and doesn't really reward Mario a lot, most of the time Mario has other options he'd rather use like Dashgrab and N-air which tend to be more rewarding.

 

[MarioMeteor]

From my experience, dash attack can't be sidestepped by any character. It also hits people on ledges. Forward throw to dash attack is a combo, but obviously not a guarenteed one. I believe it hits all ledge-hanging characters disregarding the animation.

 

[FreshYarn43]

Mario's dash attack is fast, easy and effective. Do not, and I repeat DO NOT think you can f-smash out of the dash attack. It seems so easy in theory but opponents always DI out of the way or air dodge which is not fun. That "Combo" is easily punishable and shouldn't be performed. Dash attack is good if you see your opponent about to get out of shield, it is great if used correctly.

 

[Kisatamura]

A late dash attack can act as a combo starter for most of Mario's aerials, mainly dair. I guess if you use dash attack as a meaty on opponents teching you can make it work.

 

[HeroMystic]

Dash Attack is generally nice to use as a mix-up vs characters that like to dash or short hop. When you can't get grabs due to an evasive opponent, the speed, range, and longevity of Dash Attack tends to help pop them in the air and allows you to get something going. The feet are disjointed, and can clank with a lot of stuff, including Spin Dash and even projectiles. As stated quite a few times, this is a risky move and very unsafe on whiff (i.e. you messed up the spacing), or on block (i.e. you used this while your opponent was standing there). Honestly this should only be used if nothing else is working out. I'm getting slightly more liberal with this though so we'll see.

The best use of Dash Attack though is on the ledge. The late hit causes stage spikes, so using this a bit early is usually to one's benefit.

 

[HeroMystic]

So kinda forgot about this. Lets change that.

Session 03: Down Tilt

Down Tilt Frames: f5-f7
Down Tilt(Strong) Damage: 7%
Down Tilt(Weak) Damage: 5%

Discussion on D-Tilt can begin now.

 

[Darrman]

Wouldn't Ftilt make more sense? Whatever. The main use I can see is the dthrow utilt dtilt regrab combo. Otherwise, I never use the move.

 

[HeroMystic]

I felt like being different.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I felt like being different.

Reason enough for me.
I personally find down tilt to be one of Mario's better moves. It serves as a nice alternative combo starter when down throw gets too predictable. To make a long post short, it essentially does everything down throw does just with less knockback and slightly more hitstun. Although down tilt can combo into forward smash, which is nice. Not very useful, but nice.
Speaking of down throw, during low percent strings down tilt can be converted into a regrab. I suppose it's helpful if your up tilt is stale. A lot of variety with this move. Definitely his most buffed move from Brawl.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario's D-tilt is okay, but for what it does for Mario, I honesty don't see much reason for him to really use it. It competes very heavily with grabbing, notably, and the reward you get from it has questionable merit.

It can be a good followup after N-air close to the ground which sets up a dashgrab at lower percents, and you can combo into an aerial at higher percents. It has slightly more range than Mario's Jab, but less than F-tilt.

I generally find D-tilt really doesn't have much synergy with Mario wants to do most of the time given it sends people away from Mario. Getting a grab into U-tilt usually gives Mario superior positioning to work with. Furthermore in most situations you don't really want to be playing a ground game against most characters when you're better off trying to take advantage of mobility to try to outmaneuver them in some way.

It is usable for edgeguarding against people who regrab the ledge or for those few situations where they try to fall to the ledge and you intercept them before they reach it, though then you have to ask yourself if a DA or D-smash is better.

 

[MarioMeteor]

It can be a good followup after N-air close to the ground which sets up a dashgrab at lower percents, and you can combo into an aerial at higher percents.

This is probably down tilts biggest merit. It's great for covering landings.
How could I forget that? Good job for pointing that out.

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

I think D-tilt is a moved to be used sparingly but also an important move.
In set-play it can be used for regrab combos or going for disrespectful d-tilt into f-smash setups

But in neutral I think d-tilt is one of those surprise moves you use once or twice in a set to punish a predictable approach.
Is that speedster character definitely going in for a dash grab again? Is your opponent falling with an aerial that you can duck?
Stuff their dash approach with d-tilt, combo into dash grab and convert into big damage. Percentage where you can combo is going to be pretty low for most characters.

The move is situational and not that great imo but d-tilt can be Clutch and get you back in a game.

 

[ARKills]

I think D-tilt is a pretty situational move, but it's great if you can land it. This is mostly because you'll never really get a decent follow up from the weak hit at low percent's and while the strong version has some decent follow ups you have to be really close to your opponent to land it. I think it's best to start using at around 70% as a mixup since spaced d-tilts start leading to aerial follow ups around there.

 

[HeroMystic]

Surprised people are ragging on D-tilt so much. Here's what I know about it.

-D-Tilt is a pretty good mix-up from Jab1. Pops opponent in the air.
-D-Tilt guarantees an U-tilt at ~20%. At mid percents to practically forever, U-air is guaranteed.
-D-Tilt allows U-air follow-ups at high percents when D-Throw is no longer valid.
-D-Tilt has just about the same range as Jab2, but capable of shield poking due to the lower elevation.
-D-Tilt allows for kill set-ups from air dodge reads. D-Tilt > F-Smash is a thing.

D-Tilt is actually capable of stopping a number of moves. From my experience, I've learned this beats grabs, dash attacks, and even Falcon's Raptor Boost and clanks with Falcon Kick. D-Tilt is also much more rewarding than D-Smash and much safer to use.

Experiment more with D-tilt, guys.

 

[Xeze]

@ HeroMystic , D-tilt -> fsmash works best when the opponent is grabbing the ledge, specially if the invincibility is gone. It puts your opponent just at the right height for the f-smash to connect. Not a true combo, sadly.

 

[HeroMystic]

(This is the only post I'm making here today because it's really hard to take this seriously with all these Shaq avatars XD)

@ HeroMystic , D-tilt -> fsmash works best when the opponent is grabbing the ledge, specially if the invincibility is gone. It puts your opponent just at the right height for the f-smash to connect. Not a true combo, sadly.

If you want to punish on the ledge, using Down-Angled F-Smash is better for this.

 

[- Theelitebrawler -]

 

[Darrman]

How did Fox fall for that Usmash? Troll Hunt Dog trolls. When will Utilt start? We've been on Dtilt for the three allotted days. (I guess we're having a forth day of dtilt since @ HeroMystic said he's only doing one post today, and the deed's been done.

 

[HeroMystic]

How did Fox fall for that Usmash?

Happens more than you think. Don't underestimate the ability to condition and read your opponent.


Session 04: Up Tilt

Up Tilt Frames: f5-f11
Up Tilt Damage: 5.5%

Discussion on U-Tilt can begin now.

 

[mario123007]

Always a good move for down throw combo. Or to start up an air combo.

 

[Darrman]

Mario's bread and butter. Until around 40-50 on most character, dthrow-utilt combos. True on higher percents, as well. It also links into up airs and combos into dtilts, or can just chain into itself. A good move, I use it often. If only it did more damage...

 

[mario123007]

Mario's bread and butter. Until around 40-50 on most character, dthrow-utilt combos. True on higher percents, as well. It also links into up airs and combos into dtilts, or can just chain into itself. A good move, I use it often. If only it did more damage...

It's easy to perform up tilt on the 3DS without jumping by just slightly push the circle pad up. Back on Gamecube controller, I often have to jump then do up tilt... yeah, I was suck.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

I <3 this move! The U-tilt can combo for a while, and a series of u-airs right after that is a decent follow-up to keep the combo game going. This move is the tilt I use the most often by far, and I love it for its combo potential.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Basic combo tool, situational anti-air. Part of what makes U-tilt valuable is how it not only sends people upwards, but inwards as well, which is the ideal position for followups.

The active frames can be very good for catching dodges and beating ledge getups if that's your thing. It probably is obvious, but knowing your safe percents for U-tilt strings is incredibly important to being successful as Mario. Remember to use after U-air and N-air in combos as well.

 

[Darrman]

It's easy to perform up tilt on the 3DS without jumping by just slightly push the circle pad up. Back on Gamecube controller, I often have to jump then do up tilt... yeah, I was suck.

Turn tap jump off. Anyways, I can sometimes follow up utilts with uairs, and follow up those with bairs. It's somewhere in the combo thread with the misleading title.

EDIT: Well, unless someone has something else to say... @ HeroMystic , can we get an update? No-one's said anything in two days, and there's that bit in the OP saying "if we feel like all's been said about the move, we can end sooner", and due to the silence, I'd assume that all's been said and done. Just my opinion, though...

 

[MarioMeteor]

Good Out of Shield option. It's a rather simple move, pretty much everything's been said about it. It KOs at 150% and above.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Utilt hits people hanging without invincibility on the ledge.

 

[HeroMystic]

While I feel D-tilt is underrated, I also feel U-tilt is overrated.

For Anti-Airs, U-tilt is okay but it lacks the invincibility and coverage that U-Smash has, and the damage is horrible. After playing in tournaments and fighting @ DtJ XeroXen I'm super convinced that there's no reason to use U-tilt as an anti-air when you have U-Smash.

U-tilt sets up juggles, and is effective at low percents, but once you start getting to mid percents, it becomes impossible to combo from D-throw and using U-tilt by itself is actually very unwise. U-tilt's recovery is also too long to combo anything with it, unlike D-tilt.

U-tilt's only use at high percents is for keeping U-Smash from going stale when you need an anti-air. XeroXen's information about it picking up opponents from the ledge is also true, but it is outclassed by better options.

Overall, U-tilt is a beginner's combo tool that players learning Mario will abuse as much as possible, but the crutch of U-tilt starts to lose it's worth the stronger the competition becomes (especially those that know how to DI). From that point on it's a tool used chain combos at low percents and then to set up situations where Mario can gain more damage through successful reads.