Mario's Got New Moves?

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Actually BokutoGuy, Zauron was talking to me.

And thank you for being so knowledgable (and on my side) KernelColonel.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

The cape was shown on a trailer, either way.

 

[Eagle]

I don't think it's his down aerial because we've all seen him use it and it sent link upwards..

Regarding the Tornado:

It's not his Up-B. His Up-B is shown in the You Must Recover! post.

It's not his Side-B. That's just illogical.

It's not his Neutral-B. We all know why.

It's not his Down-B in Midair. SAKURAI SAID IT WAS A NORMAL ATTACK.



The FLUDD looks ridiculously cool. I WANTS IT!

He didn't specifically say it was a normal attack

 

[SpitFire15]

I don't think it's his down aerial because we've all seen him use it and it sent link upwards..

Mario's old dair from Melee has not been seen in any trailer or screenshot so far.

 

[Zauron]

Desert Eagle many DAir's send opponents upwards, including Mario's current DAir, so that doesn't mean a thing.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

As far as saying the Tornado isn't Mario's Dair because we've seen it in a trailer, that's an incorrect path of logic. This is because the trailer we've seen it in, is the Nintendo World trailer, but we also saw Link's moves, such as his f-smash and up-b.
but wait!
Link's moves are different than in the trailer? no way. no freakin way. Yes, Link's moves are now different from what we've seen in the trailers. My theory is that Sakurai added Link in Brawl (in the very beginning) and put him in as Melee Link, just for the time being, and so they can show "Link in Brawl" footage. So Sakurai put him off to being edited later on.

Couldn't it be possible it's the same thing with Mario? no? really? Oh, ok--you were just kidding about the "no" because it's really YES.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

As far as saying the Tornado isn't Mario's Dair because we've seen it in a trailer, that's an incorrect path of logic. This is because the trailer we've seen it in, is the Nintendo World trailer, but we also saw Link's moves, such as his f-smash and up-b.
but wait!
Link's moves are different than in the trailer? no way. no freakin way. Yes, Link's moves are now different from what we've seen in the trailers. My theory is that Sakurai added Link in Brawl (in the very beginning) and put him in as Melee Link, just for the time being, and so they can show "Link in Brawl" footage. So Sakurai put him off to being edited later on.

Couldn't it be possible it's the same thing with Mario? no? really? Oh, ok--you were just kidding about the "no" because it's really YES.

No, that seems stupid and like a waste of time. I figure the moves that HAVE changed...

Spoiler

(Link's new fSmash)

... havn't been shown in the trailers. Sakurai's just waiting for the game to come out so we can see what moves have changed for ourselves.

Unless of course we get some sort of "Standard/Aerial Moves That Have Changed for Veteran Characters" update. But I doubt that.

 

[wtfumble]

Umm... since the attack makes Mario go UP could it not be like.... his uair?
Or just his aerial down-b, which seems more likely. No dair attacks make melee characters hover, so don't base your facts off of melee, and if you do then the logic is still flawed.

F.L.U.D.D looks like a great move that will become an edge guarding must for Mario. Good thing all the characters are getting better recoveries, that should balance the game a little more

 

[Vortok]

One of the videos shows Mario doing a fair on Pikachu (right at the beginning of it) but the trajectory does not act like it did for Mario in Melee (acts like it did for Dr. Mario). Thus, we've already seen moves that act differently.

 

[wtfumble]

Umm, Doc's Uair hits people up, which I one reason he's better. They just gave Mario one of his clone's moves to make him better, doesn't mean anything significant.

 

[Takeshi245]

Umm, Doc's Uair hits people up, which I one reason he's better. They just gave Mario one of his clone's moves to make him better, doesn't mean anything significant.

Yeah it does. Mario has another finisher. Oh, and Mario is better at combos than Doctor Mario with his uair and in general.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Umm... since the attack makes Mario go UP could it not be like.... his uair?
Or just his aerial down-b, which seems more likely. No dair attacks make melee characters hover, so don't base your facts off of melee, and if you do then the logic is still flawed.

F.L.U.D.D looks like a great move that will become an edge guarding must for Mario. Good thing all the characters are getting better recoveries, that should balance the game a little more

Umm, Doc's Uair hits people up, which I one reason he's better. They just gave Mario one of his clone's moves to make him better, doesn't mean anything significant.

Alright, first of all, Mario DOES NOT hover in the trailer. He is only slowed down because he is making contact with Link. The same thing happens with every other character doing a multi-hit aerial attack.

Second, I'm looking forward to trying Mario out with his F.L.U.D.D. as well. It really looks like a fun and annoying move. I'm sure I'll hate it being done against me, so that means I'm going to love using it.

Third, Mario's new fAir contains two different kinds of attack (maybe more). When Mario is swinging up, he hits Pikachu up and away, and when he follows through and swings down, he hits meteors Kirby. Taking this is a definite sign that Doc is gone.

 

[wtfumble]

He's only seen doing it in the air, so I'm still guessing it's his Aerial down-b. His fair is too important to go away IMO, I love the shffl dair combo's, even if they're easy to escape. Mindgames son

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Nope. It'll be his dAir.

The Tornado attacks the same way Mario's dAir does in Melee, why wouldn't they put it over the other one if it's practically the same move?

 

[Beno]

Um, what about Wario's Bike? Snake's Rocket Launcher? Diddy's peanut gun and rocket barrels? Looks like things are still popping out of nowhere to me.

The strongest evidence is the fact that Sakurai said "He still seems to have this move, though. Eh? Is it a normal attack?!" Anyone familiar with Sakurai's style will see this is a rhetorical question. It's not much different from these other "questions" he's asked:

"You recover a little damage when you eat it. Is this for real?"
"He’s not flinching?!"
"Is... Is he issuing commands?!"
"Is this the turtle’s so-called shell?"
"Are these bombs made by Barnes?"
"What?! You can control Giga Bowser from Super Smash Bros. Melee?!"
"Rumor has it they can use those wings to sail through sky like gliders. But that can’t be true, can it?"
"And rumor is, you can even save screenshots?!"
"Wh-what the heck is this? What is going on? What kind of joke is this?"
"Yes, banana peels... You don’t, um…think they’re too much of a cliché, do you?"
"What?! Is this... Could it be?! It’s the Bumper from the Nintendo 64 version of Super Smash Bros.!"
"Come on, now! Where are you sticking that thing?"
"Is... Is it safe to eat that?"

As you can see, he often poses makes comments posed in the form of a question. Its not a big mystery, he's telling us right there - the Tornado is now a normal move.

Combine that with the other evidence. He's only the Tornado in the air that we've seen, and it has not behaved in a way that doesn't make sense for a standard air attack (he doesn't rise up in the air any more than his momentum would normally take him, so it won't help with recoveries any more). All the air attacks except the drill kick DAir have been seen before. All other B attacks have been seen before. The Brawl version of the Tornado behaves very similarly to the DAir drill kick. B moves have been different in the air and on the ground in the past, but they were always very related (Falcon Kick, Kirby's Hammer, Link's spin slash). The game is trying to maintain simplicity, even moreso than before, with things like holding A to do combos, and having B moves that are COMPLETLY differently in the air or ground just adds unnecessary complexity when there are plenty of other, better things to do that give variety without confusing the controls (like the Footstool Jump, it uses the Jump button, you jump, it makes sense!).

With all this evidence, particularly Sakurai's own comment, I don't see how anyone can honestly believe that the Tornado is anything but a standard Air attack now likely replacing the drill kick, and FLUDD works just like any other attack where your character suddenly has an item from nowhere, even one large and obviously impossible to really do that with (again, think of Wario's Bike, that's even more rediculous!). I wouldn't discount the possibility that FLUDD can be knocked off Mario somehow like Wario's Bike though. And I would not be surprised if his air Down+B is somehow different from on the ground, but it would still involve FLUDD somehow (perhaps the hover function, to replace the loss of the Tornado's small recovery boost).

More people should read this.

 

[Vortok]

The other possibility I can think of, is holding a button vs. pressing once/rapidly. I thought that mechanic was more to make certain moves easier to pull off, rather than do new moves, but it's the only other thing I can think of. I think it being his dair is the most likely possibility, but the hold vs. press idea has been rolling around in my head for awhile.

 

[Takeshi245]

Nope. It'll be his dAir.

The Tornado attacks the same way Mario's dAir does in Melee, why wouldn't they put it over the other one if it's practically the same move?

Not really. Mario's dair in Melee helped with combo setups. The tornado was a pretty useless move in the previous games as well.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Not really. Mario's dair in Melee helped with combo setups. The tornado was a pretty useless move in the previous games as well.

Look at it this way:

1) Mario Tornado and Mario's dAir both involve Mario spinning vertically in the air.
2) Both give multiple hits and neither meteor so it would be an easy transition to make: it doesn't change his mechanics much, and wouldn't confuse veteran Mario players who use the move in their strategies.
3) In Melee, the Mario Tornando "carries" the opponent, while his dAir "levitates" them upwards. In the trailer, Mario "levitates" Link upwards with the Tornado.
4) The Mario Tornado has been given less hits at a slower pace, much like his dAir in Melee.
5) Mario does not halt his momentum in mid-air at the start-up or cool-down of the Tornado in Brawl anymore. He moves at one steady forward motion the whole time.
6) Sakurai hinted that it will be a normal attack in the update.

The fact that people simply refuse to even consider the fact that the Tornado is moving into Mario's old dAir spot is just unbelievable. Is it because you've grown attached to his dAir over the years and you'll miss Mario's old dAir too much if it's gone so now you're putting yourself in denial? Or is it just because you think it would be cool for Mario to have an aerial B move and refuse to escape your fantasy world?

Well either get over it or wake up. The Tornado is now Mario's dAir. Look at the facts and get back to reality.


EDIT:
This isn't solely directed towards you Takeshi245. This is for all the other non-believers out there, too.

 

[wtfumble]

Look at it this way:

1) Mario Tornado and Mario's dAir both involve Mario spinning vertically in the air.
2) Both give multiple hits and neither meteor so it would be an easy transition to make: it doesn't change his mechanics much, and wouldn't confuse veteran Mario players who use the move in their strategies.
3) In Melee, the Mario Tornando "carries" the opponent, while his dAir "levitates" them upwards. In the trailer, Mario "levitates" Link upwards with the Tornado.
4) The Mario Tornado has been given less hits at a slower pace, much like his dAir in Melee.
5) Mario does not halt his momentum in mid-air at the start-up or cool-down of the Tornado in Brawl anymore. He moves at one steady forward motion the whole time.
6) Sakurai hinted that it will be a normal attack in the update.

The fact that people simply refuse to even consider the fact that the Tornado is moving into Mario's old dAir spot is just unbelievable. Is it because you've grown attached to his dAir over the years and you'll miss Mario's old dAir too much if it's gone so now you're putting yourself in denial? Or is it just because you think it would be cool for Mario to have an aerial B move and refuse to escape your fantasy world?

Well either get over it or wake up. The Tornado is now Mario's dAir. Look at the facts and get back to reality.


EDIT:
This isn't solely directed towards you Takeshi245. This is for all the other non-believers out there, too.

Wait buT TeH ZomGZ You SAid TeH MvoEs Were The DifRFERnt AcTinZgz And tEh StuFfzs

 

[Takeshi245]

Look at it this way:

1) Mario Tornado and Mario's dAir both involve Mario spinning vertically in the air.
2) Both give multiple hits and neither meteor so it would be an easy transition to make: it doesn't change his mechanics much, and wouldn't confuse veteran Mario players who use the move in their strategies.
3) In Melee, the Mario Tornando "carries" the opponent, while his dAir "levitates" them upwards. In the trailer, Mario "levitates" Link upwards with the Tornado.
4) The Mario Tornado has been given less hits at a slower pace, much like his dAir in Melee.
5) Mario does not halt his momentum in mid-air at the start-up or cool-down of the Tornado in Brawl anymore. He moves at one steady forward motion the whole time.
6) Sakurai hinted that it will be a normal attack in the update.

The fact that people simply refuse to even consider the fact that the Tornado is moving into Mario's old dAir spot is just unbelievable. Is it because you've grown attached to his dAir over the years and you'll miss Mario's old dAir too much if it's gone so now you're putting yourself in denial? Or is it just because you think it would be cool for Mario to have an aerial B move and refuse to escape your fantasy world?

Well either get over it or wake up. The Tornado is now Mario's dAir. Look at the facts and get back to reality.


EDIT:
This isn't solely directed towards you Takeshi245. This is for all the other non-believers out there, too.

Dude, I was in argeement with you about the Mario tornado being his dair. It's the only logical explanation. I'm just saying that Mario's Melee dair was good for combo setups. That's it.

 

[Florida]

I don't know if this has been thought of yet, (most likely has), but I'm a little too lazy to read through 20 pages of other user's posts.

"No more Mario Tornado!? What will happen to Mario's recovery?!"

o.O think the FLUDD will act differently when airborne, and grant Mario some new recovery advantages?

 

[Pyroloserkid]

I don't know if this has been thought of yet, (most likely has), but I'm a little too lazy to read through 20 pages of other user's posts.

"No more Mario Tornado!? What will happen to Mario's recovery?!"

o.O think the FLUDD will act differently when airborne, and grant Mario some new recovery advantages?

I didn't read the past 20 pages either, but that's an amazing idea.

I'm curious as to how FLUDD works in the air.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I didn't read the past 20 pages either, but that's an amazing idea.

I'm curious as to how FLUDD works in the air.

Not like that, I'm sure. Mario's going to jump in the air, pull out his FLUDD in cannon form, stop any forward motion he has, and fall straight down.

And the Tornado is now Mario's dAir.

I'm calling both of those. Quote me on it.

 

[Pyroloserkid]

Not like that, I'm sure. Mario's going to jump in the air, pull out his FLUDD in cannon form, stop any forward motion he has, and fall straight down.

And the Tornado is now Mario's dAir.

I'm calling both of those. Quote me on it.

So kind of like G&W when he does the Neutral B in the air?

And yeh I'm guessing the Tornado is his Dair.

 

[Florida]

I didn't read the past 20 pages either, but that's an amazing idea.

I'm curious as to how FLUDD works in the air.

Another possibility for the FLUDD functionality while airborne, is working similar to the shine. It stops you in mid-air, but doesn't move you toward or back.

Mmm... it'd be awesome if the FLUDD would work as a spike while in air
That idea actually *****.

Not like that, I'm sure. Mario's going to jump in the air, pull out his FLUDD in cannon form, stop any forward motion he has, and fall straight down.

And the Tornado is now Mario's dAir.

I'm calling both of those. Quote me on it.

Quoted.

So kind of like G&W when he does the Neutral B in the air?

And yeh I'm guessing the Tornado is his Dair.

We've seen all of Mario's aerial attacks besides his dair, there's no way it can be anything else.

 

[Hydde]

Taking a compilaton of all the new mario moves and alterntives...... i think the guy canbe a top tier anyday.

In the last game mario ahd a fearsome combo ability, capable of killing anyone. And his recovery was better than doc. The problem was that he depended too much on his fsmash and down to kill people, while doc had his pills and other things to kill.

If marios fireballs are adapted to be like docs pill.... Ill sincerely fear this guy.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Quoted.

Haha! Good, I'm glad you did.

I have a feeling that not only Mario, but many (if not most) characters will be High or Mid Tier. I'm also seeing a few Low Tier-ers, it looks like Sakurai is doing a bang-up job with the characters so far. A faster Link, a Yoshi with a 3rd jump, a Bowser with a new "flavor"?

Two words: "Awwwwww Yeaaaaaa!"

 

[M.K]

Haha! Good, I'm glad you did.

I have a feeling that not only Mario, but many (if not most) characters will be High or Mid Tier. I'm also seeing a few Low Tier-ers, it looks like Sakurai is doing a bang-up job with the characters so far. A faster Link, a Yoshi with a 3rd jump, a Bowser with a new "flavor"?

Two words: "Awwwwww Yeaaaaaa!"

I totally agree, but I'm curious to who you see as Low-Tier?

I've heard Diddy Kong and Snake, due to the failure of moves and "supposed" laggy moves respectively.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

Since when do Diddy's moves fail? And yea, Snakes up and down smash are going to be slower than ganon's up-tilt in Melee, but otherwise he looks really good. just don't use his up or down smash. lol.

And FLUDD FTW.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I totally agree, but I'm curious to who you see as Low-Tier?

I've heard Diddy Kong and Snake, due to the failure of moves and "supposed" laggy moves respectively.

I can see Diddy possibly being Low Tier because of his misfiring moves, but definitely not Snake. He's going to be so strong it will make up for his laggy moves. But don't expect them to be that laggy, people. He's going to be fight in an almost cartoony manner. Take a look at his uSmash, tell me you can't picture him pulling that out of his back pocket in a fraction of a second and shooting. Look how fast he pulls out his RPG in the trailer to blast Pit.

Oh, right, back to characters I think will be Low Tier... Wario because he looks a bit sloppy between his unorthadox moves that look like they could have little value in metagame. And maybe Pokemon Trainer because I see people being good with a certain pokemon, but bad with the others. Maybe you're dominant with fast characters like Squirtle, but once Squirtle's stamina is shot you're stuck with the slow characters.

 

[Phrozn]

yay for decloning!

but I also like the small differences that make that character more fun to play if it closer suits your play style.

 

[Kelexo]

Mario's "Bair" and "Fair" confirmed in the update today, if that relieves any doubt that the Mario Tornado will be one of those moves.

 

[HollaAtchaBoy]

The bair actually looks different.

 

[Florida]

In the video we've received from the "Snake Joins the Brawl!" update, we see Mario battling against Snake. During this fight, Mario performs the Mario Tornado while airborne, once again. However, there's something that I've noticed: While Mario's performing this move, a hitbox seems to form around his feet as well as his hands.

(very crap-quality images, I know)

Is this proof of the Mario Tornado being Mario's dair?

(not a big discovery, but, still... xD)

Discuss?

 

[Keta]

Not like that, I'm sure. Mario's going to jump in the air, pull out his FLUDD in cannon form, stop any forward motion he has, and fall straight down.

And the Tornado is now Mario's dAir.

I'm calling both of those. Quote me on it.

I really don't think dair is going to be a tornado. If you watch the new video, when Mario lands from the tornado, he is still clearly doing the move, but there are spikes coming from the ground. Then when Snake does one of his aerial attacks, dark dust is thrown from the ground when he lands. I'm not near smash to check, but I'm pretty sure in melee special moves gave no animation from the ground upon landing. So, they could've just thrown in the spikey landing for them.

Also, I'm pretty sure there have always been hitboxes around his feet during his tornado.

 

[Pima]

In the video we've received from the "Snake Joins the Brawl!" update, we see Mario battling against Snake. During this fight, Mario performs the Mario Tornado while airborne, once again. However, there's something that I've noticed: While Mario's performing this move, a hitbox seems to form around his feet as well as his hands.


(very crap-quality images, I know)

Is this proof of the Mario Tornado being Mario's dair?

(not a big discovery, but, still... xD)

Discuss?

Isn't it just the animation of the feet hitting Snake's shield?

 

[Florida]

Isn't it just the animation of the feet hitting Snake's shield?

... which would lead to my conclusion that this possibly proves the "Mario Tornado" being the result of the d-air function.

There wasn't a hitbox surrounded Mario's feet while performing the "Mario Tornado" in Melee, correct?

 

[Pyroloserkid]

iGrunt, that pretty much looks like proof. It looks like his Dair in melee, just this time it's a tornado.

Also, we've seen all of mario's other air moves...so it HAS to be dair.

Wait, have we seen Uair yet?

 

[LockeExe]

Personally I think this means its curtains for the Cape. Let's see what we know.
Each character has four special moves (How To: Special Attack Update). Mario retains his Up+B: Super Punch (How To: Recover Update). Mario still has his Fireball attack (Possible direction change?) as seen in videos and various screenshots. His Down+B has changed to F.L.U.D.D. And he can still use Mario Tornado. I may be wrong (I probably am) but still...

My first post;

In the Nintendo World movie, we see Mario use his cape when it's Battlefield (turning Nighttime). So, the Cape isn't gone.

On the other hand, this move is going to be an amazing edgeguard. Assuming that we don't get our third jump back because FLUDD doesn't deal damage, we can FLUDD someone trying to recover (after they used their 3rd jump), and they would be knocked away and wouldn't have any more recovery moves.

 

[Staz]

i dont really like his new move