Mario Masters, Help Me Defeat Snake!

[kobefan]

It used to be Pikmin and Pickachu, now my latest dilemma is SNAKE.


The snakes i play spam with grenades, sit back with rocket thingy, and dive roll, repeat.

Any sure fire way to defeat Snakes, good strategies please!

 

[Mario is the greatest brawler]

sh fireball to approach then follow up with either aaa combo, d smash or a grab. be careful of snakes absurd reach and physical power(forward tilt, up tilt). for grenades walk right through them and proceed with tha strategy above since he throws them above you anyway. if he camps wit tha rocket either fireball him to make him come to you. he cant spam as fast as mario can or either jump not sh to make him curve his rocket then airdodge and punish. if he presses l or r to lose control of tha rocket when you jump hes a good snake becus he knows you were goin to air dodge and punish him, so be on your toes. for tha dive roll try to avoid it spot dodge, roll dodge behind, block, etc. then get an appropriate distance between you and him and proceed to sh fireball approach. personally i like to keep my distance when sh fireball approachin. if you need anythin else let me know. hope this helps, keep reppin mario!

 

[Xavi]

Welcome to the world of Tourneyfarts :/

 

[Yuna]

sh fireball to approach then follow up with either aaa combo, d smash or a grab.

No, just no.

Stuff.

I take you assume all Snakes in the world are idiots?

 

[Matador]

I'm curious Yuna, what brings you to the Mario boards? This isn't one of your normal posting spots.

And yeah, I agree, that's not how you'd go about fighting Snake. Fireballs are good approaches, but utilts and uairs for comboing is the best way to go. That's the only good thing about this matchup for mario, you should abuse it. The rest of your post is more than iffy MITGB...

 

[Yuna]

I'm curious Yuna, what brings you to the Mario boards? This isn't one of your normal posting spots.

I lurk many boards. When I'm bored, I enter random boards.

 

[Mario is the greatest brawler]

No, just no. I take you assume all Snakes in the world are idiots?

yo please dont talk to me unless you have somethin good to say cause frankly im gettin sick of you. PLEASE DONT TALK TO ME! if youre so good why not post your opinion on approachin snake?

I'm curious Yuna, what brings you to the Mario boards? This isn't one of your normal posting spots.

And yeah, I agree, that's not how you'd go about fighting Snake. Fireballs are good approaches, but utilts and uairs for comboing is the best way to go. That's the only good thing about this matchup for mario, you should abuse it. The rest of your post is more than iffy MITGB...

no offence but sh fireball approach always works for me on any character. if you face tougher snakes then me you should know better but thats my opinion on how to approach anyone. i was just tryin to help tha brother out.

 

[Mario is the greatest brawler]

Welcome to the world of Tourneyfarts :/

you talkin to me?

 

[Yuna]

yo please dont talk to me unless you have somethin good to say cause frankly im gettin sick of you. PLEASE DONT TALK TO ME! if youre so good why not post your opinion on approachin snake?

You specifically stated one of your suggestions will only work if the Snake's "not good" (though you phrased it differently). This is assuming the opponent is an idiot.

Your suggestions were largely factualy incorrect, anyway.

SH fireballing? Please, Snake's moves eat through those.

And why don't I have the right to correct you when you post highly questionable suggestions as if they were fact? I don't even play Mario and I know what you suggest doesn't work on good players. Also, note how I'm always calm and civil when addressing you.

 

[Matador]

no offence but sh fireball approach always works for me on any character. if you face tougher snakes then me you should know better but thats my opinion on how to approach anyone. i was just tryin to help tha brother out.

I wasn't disagreeing with the sh fireballs (even though I like full hopped fireballs better). I was saying you should follow them up with utilts or uairs if you land them instead of a Dsmash or grab. The grab may be a good choice at extremely low percents and only if you downthrow because you may manage to link something together. Best to just wait for Snake's week on Boss' thread to get all of the Marios' thoughts on the matchup. Snake is not easy by any means as mario.

 

[Mario_ 101]

Well, just keep Snake in the air and he's screwd. I'm too tired right now to give any other advice.

 

[Renegade65]

The thing that I do is, use snake helicopter thing to ur advantage. There are 2 things that I do. U can cape him when he is flying back. Or u can Fair him. I usually dsmash him to get him off and low. Then use one of those moves. MORE LATER

 

[Judge Judy]

Utilt ***** Snake, even more than Snake's Utilt ***** you and I think you can just run through grenades.

 

[The Real Inferno]

In my opinion there are far, FAR worse matchups for Mario than this. Let's see...

FLUDD ***** Snake's recovery. It ****ing owns him. He wil cry. You will point and laugh. So long as you charge Fludd whenever possible, whenever Snake has to come back with Cypher mid to low in the air you can push him out of range, forcing a C4 Recovery which is free damage for you (or if Snake is sloppy, a kill).

Short hop fireballs are where it's at for approaching snake (but why approach, when you can camp, eh?). If snake doesn't cook his grenades take control of them and toss them back. Try to bring him to you. His approach is predictable. It's either going to be a walking Ftilt (Roll dodge behind and punish), DAC Mortar Slide (Two easy options: Cape him the other way to make him look like a ****** or powershield it) and Dash attack (Just shield it and follow him with a Ftilt or more fireballs. Once you have him off guard, at low damages you can Utilt his heavy *** several times.

If the snake player you are up against is the kind who likes to run Nikita into your straight up, show him just how ludicrously fast it travels back to him out of a Cape. If he likes to drop it, just short hop into an air dodge. Killing Snake might seem hard, but he's going to be easy gimp bait for both FLUDD and Fair, so keep that in mind and avoid spamming your smashes (no point in getting them stale as a fresh Fsmash is good to pop out of nowhere).

 

[Veggi]

FLUDD ***** Snake's recovery. It ****ing owns him. He wil cry. You will point and laugh. So long as you charge Fludd whenever possible, whenever Snake has to come back with Cypher mid to low in the air you can push him out of range, forcing a C4 Recovery which is free damage for you (or if Snake is sloppy, a kill).

I remember trying to FLUDD Snake and just see him fly much higher into the air, actually helping his recovery.

The thing that I do is, use snake helicopter thing to ur advantage. There are 2 things that I do. U can cape him when he is flying back. Or u can Fair him. I usually dsmash him to get him off and low. Then use one of those moves. MORE LATER

You can't use your cape, it just gives him another cypher. I hate this alot, but it happens. The same applies to Sonic and Mr. G&W.

 

[Fatmanonice]

In my opinion there are far, FAR worse matchups for Mario than this. Let's see...

FLUDD ***** Snake's recovery. It ****ing owns him. He wil cry. You will point and laugh. So long as you charge Fludd whenever possible, whenever Snake has to come back with Cypher mid to low in the air you can push him out of range, forcing a C4 Recovery which is free damage for you (or if Snake is sloppy, a kill).

Most Snake players are smart enough to use the Cypher at the highest point possible in order to avoid getting gimped so this usually won't work unless 1. he's at a relatively low percentage and/or 2. you aim the FLUDD perfectly as to not give him a boosted lift.

Short hop fireballs are where it's at for approaching snake (but why approach, when you can camp, eh?).

Camping with Mario's fireballs usually isn't that effective in general while trying to do it against Snake is almost borderline useless since even his freakin' jab outprioritizes it.

My comments in "Olive". (Since people whine when I use Red...)

 

[A2ZOMG]

You have to play patiently against Snake. If you rush in, you die. Simple as that.

If Snake whiffs an F-tilt, keep in mind you can punish it with a pivoted F-smash.

If you get a grab, this is your opportunity to D-throw and juggle Snake.

 

[The Real Inferno]

Stuff

If Snake recovers high with Cypher (provided you gave him such an opportunity) he can be hit with FLUDD as he comes back to the stage, pushing him right back over nothing with the same results. Short Hop Fireballs are still great for forcing Snake to not get hit by them, leaving him open for whatever you want, as you know before hand he's ether going to trade blows, block, or sidestep the fireball. This is called control. At least you know before hand what your opponent will do, allowing you to followup. I prefer Short Hop fireballs, into a short hop Nair or Bair.

 

[Matador]

If Snake recovers high with Cypher (provided you gave him such an opportunity) he can be hit with FLUDD as he comes back to the stage, pushing him right back over nothing with the same results. Short Hop Fireballs are still great for forcing Snake to not get hit by them, leaving him open for whatever you want, as you know before hand he's ether going to trade blows, block, or sidestep the fireball. This is called control. At least you know before hand what your opponent will do, allowing you to followup. I prefer Short Hop fireballs, into a short hop Nair or Bair.

Your scenario would only work against an inexperienced Snake. His recovery is gimpable, but not when he's above you. Even as he's coming down, he has plenty of options. He could drop a C4, DI into range of a nair or bair, or simply airdodge and he'd be safe from fludding.

Fireballs are good (short hopped or otherwise) in this matchup, but they don't force Snake to do anything. Snake's projectiles are better, his mortar slide is hardly hindered by fireballs, and basically any attack he does cancels it out. Falco's lasers force him to approach, Pika's neutral B forces him to approach, but Mario's fireballs just bug him. They're best used as safe combo starters as every aerial you do is outprioritized by him. The hitstun of the fireballs gives you an opportunity to safely act.

 

[Fatmanonice]

If Snake recovers high with Cypher (provided you gave him such an opportunity) he can be hit with FLUDD as he comes back to the stage, pushing him right back over nothing with the same results. Short Hop Fireballs are still great for forcing Snake to not get hit by them, leaving him open for whatever you want, as you know before hand he's ether going to trade blows, block, or sidestep the fireball. This is called control. At least you know before hand what your opponent will do, allowing you to followup. I prefer Short Hop fireballs, into a short hop Nair or Bair.

He can still airdodge as he's coming down as well as throw grenades to get you to back off. It should also be keep in mind that he can always C4 recover if nessecary and that his fair gives him a decent amount of forward momentum when not done with the c-stick which cuts the effectiveness of the FLUDD if timed right. The FLUDD can be effective but not as a effective as you are making it out to be.

A shorthop fireball into a nair is just begging for you to get nailed in the face with a ftilt. Bair is obviously the better option but, like I said before, Snake has a lot of options for completely canceling the fireballs out. One mortar slide or one dash attack is all it takes for him to completely cut through the defense and if you try to camp with it, he can just camp back with grenades.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I like how random people come in to kinda defend Mario and the Mario mains are all like "nah dude...*Insert thing here* doesn't work that well"

 

[The Real Inferno]

"You're doing it wrong." Is all I have to say about the "uselessness" of FLUDD in this matchup. Here's a tip, for free. If you use FLUDD as Snake comes back to the stage (let's assume that he isn't going to the edge because if he goes low he knows FLUDD will hit him away before he grabs it, if he Air dodges FLUDD, he sets himself up for Fair out of his cypher), As Snake is hitting the ground, you can can still push him off the Edge with FLUDD into forced fall without him getting his second jump and Cypher back. Now let's assume he goes very very high, where FLUDD doesn't work. At least you know where he will be now. Bait a Nair and slip behind for the Bair if you're feeling adventurous. As for Mortar Slide, if you play against enough Snake you'll get very used to just caping it if he tries from any sort of distance. You can always just shield grab it though which works fine (provided he's still in the slide, we all know grabbing after the mortar comes out is very bad). Something like Dthrow>Uair>Bair should make him think twice about pulling that **** on you anymore.

 

[Geou]

So then, one should try to simply wait for the Snake to miss then knock them into the air to combo them? If I try to approach with an aerial his forward or up tilt TEAR through them (even my up smash!), and blocking them pushes you too far back to do anything useful.

I also find this match-up hard because to kill Snake, you have to outright knock him out the stage. Up Smash is usually deteriorated in attempts to combo Snake (though he usually air-dodges through my B-Airs and U-Airs), and it's tough to land a good F-Smash due to his overbearing attacks, leaving me with D-Smash... which could take forever to kill with.

 

[Fatmanonice]

"You're doing it wrong." Is all I have to say about the "uselessness" of FLUDD in this matchup. Here's a tip, for free. If you use FLUDD as Snake comes back to the stage (let's assume that he isn't going to the edge because if he goes low he knows FLUDD will hit him away before he grabs it, if he Air dodges FLUDD, he sets himself up for Fair out of his cypher)

How often would there be a situation where Snake is forced off the edge at low percentages AND without his second jump ESPECIALLY with Mario? You have to play a beasty Mario in order to put that much pressure on Snake. If you're going to FLUDD him, it would be best to do it if he tries to bair or dair you upon coming back.

, As Snake is hitting the ground, you can can still push him off the Edge with FLUDD into forced fall without him getting his second jump and Cypher back. Now let's assume he goes very very high, where FLUDD doesn't work. At least you know where he will be now. Bait a Nair and slip behind for the Bair if you're feeling adventurous. As for Mortar Slide, if you play against enough Snake you'll get very used to just caping it if he tries from any sort of distance.

Smart Snakes won't Mortar Slide at a far distance because it's much more effective close range as it gives your opponent very little time to react. Also, it's best used as a surprize tactic more than anything else so, more often then not, you'll only see it coming if the Snake player grossly overuses it. It's not like Captain Falcon's Falcon Kick where there's an obvious audio warning before he throws himself forward and one of his few approach options.

You can always just shield grab it though which works fine (provided he's still in the slide, we all know grabbing after the mortar comes out is very bad). Something like Dthrow>Uair>Bair should make him think twice about pulling that **** on you anymore.

Assuming he's at a low percentage and doesn't air dodge shortly after the dthrow. It's like the pseudo throw combos that Lucas and Ike have. Lucas does his dthrow at low percentages and follows up with a Uair and Ike does his dthrow before going into aether. These can always be avoided, it's just that at lower percentages your opponent has to have really fast reactions or completely see it coming to avoid it.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Assuming he's at a low percentage and doesn't air dodge shortly after the dthrow. It's like the pseudo throw combos that Lucas and Ike have. Lucas does his dthrow at low percentages and follows up with a Uair and Ike does his dthrow before going into aether. These can always be avoided, it's just that at lower percentages your opponent has to have really fast reactions or completely see it coming to avoid it.

Lucas' downthrow combos are true combos.

 

[Matador]

"You're doing it wrong." Is all I have to say about the "uselessness" of FLUDD in this matchup. Here's a tip, for free. If you use FLUDD as Snake comes back to the stage (let's assume that he isn't going to the edge because if he goes low he knows FLUDD will hit him away before he grabs it, if he Air dodges FLUDD, he sets himself up for Fair out of his cypher), As Snake is hitting the ground, you can can still push him off the Edge with FLUDD into forced fall without him getting his second jump and Cypher back. Now let's assume he goes very very high, where FLUDD doesn't work. At least you know where he will be now. Bait a Nair and slip behind for the Bair if you're feeling adventurous. As for Mortar Slide, if you play against enough Snake you'll get very used to just caping it if he tries from any sort of distance. You can always just shield grab it though which works fine (provided he's still in the slide, we all know grabbing after the mortar comes out is very bad). Something like Dthrow>Uair>Bair should make him think twice about pulling that **** on you anymore.

I'm so sorry, we must have an understanding. I thought you were talking about strategies for fighting a GOOD snake; one with half a brain and thumbs and whatnot.

No good snake will do anything you suggested.

"let's assume that he isn't going to the edge because if he goes low he knows FLUDD will hit him away before he grabs it". So wouldn't he go HIGH? You're forcing Snake, in every scenario, to do things that no good snake would.

"let's assume he goes very very high where FLUDD doesn't work, at least you'll know where he'll be now. Bait a nair and slip behind for the Bair if you're feeling adventurous." No...good snakes only do rising nair, not falling because of the lag. He would try a safe option like dropping C4, or DI forward and space a bair or something to that effect. Whatever snakes you fight don't use these safe options. You don't mortar slide just because your opponent is far away, or fair because it might work, you use safer options like grenades, spaced nairs, utilts and ftilts to get the job done. Your scenarios are random speculation based on the reactions of bad snake players. That's no good.

I like how random people come in to kinda defend Mario and the Mario mains are all like "nah dude...*Insert thing here* doesn't work that well"

Mario mains = realists. We know every Snake we fight isn't going to be an idiot and let himself be fludded or w/e. Knowin where mario sux is the best way to go into a match.

 

[mario brawler]

Infernorage1 seems like your best bet,just remember to NEVER try to cape a recovering snake or anyone else that is'nt helpless after their b-up,resort to mario's awesome meteor not only does it get the job done ,it want's you to give your self a pat on the back...okay maybe not but you feel great none the less and hopefully it will piss him of enough to resort to useless spamming or blind head on attacks if he's smart enough to keep his cool tho I would'nt count on it
moral of the story Fair snake! resort to fludd if he's already too far out

 

[IceDX]

 

[mario brawler]

I'm seeing that image alot these days lmao

 

[Famous]

Actually, caping a recovering Snake isn't a bad idea. For one, if they get knocked back far enough it will force them to use there down b move giving them free damage and possibly death.

 

[BoTastic!]

Actually, caping a recovering Snake isn't a bad idea. For one, if they get knocked back far enough it will force them to use there down b move giving them free damage and possibly death.

caping them gives them another Up B.

 

[Famous]

Hmmm...never known since they're so high up to begin with.

 

[Matador]

You can't really gimp Snake without a Fair meteor. Cape is better for edgeguarding than anything. Racking up damage primarily since he can't do anything but airdodge to defend himself.

 

[mario brawler]

You can't really gimp Snake without a Fair meteor. Cape is better for edgeguarding than anything. Racking up damage primarily since he can't do anything but airdodge to defend himself.

true but fludding him always helps setup a Fair meteor and poosibly (If hes out far enough) result in an edgehog related death XD

 

[Oblique]

I use to play against a Snake user (friend), i basically kept an evasive game play, to do minor damage (rack up damage) then smash away. As for gimping. I knock Snake off with dsmash around 85% then jump up to hit him with a fire ball after he jumps (making him fall a little) then time fsmash or fair.

This might not be accurate cuz i didn't fight a pro Snake.

 

[vato_break]

well i faced ally(AIB)
you have really have to wit snakes out they tend to play a tricky game
remember where he plants mines
you can uptilts 3-5 at early percents
spam fireballs ,they like to do this thing we they slide half of FD with thier up smash,fireballs will stop him
well i kinda lost to this snake guy but, at least i took a stock from him!