Mario Universe Mario Kart General Discussion - 200CC Announced | Second DLC Pack Coming in May!

[The Real Gamer]

Just got back from work I was ready to respond but apparently this has gone on long enough... Sonic we'll just have to respectfully disagree and leave it at that. It's abundantly clear that you have an entirely different vision than I do in terms of how Mario Kart should play on both a casual and competitive level, so there's really not much of a way for us to reach a common ground.

With that being said I look forward to kicking all of your asses in MK8 next week.

 

[Gatlin]

Edit: You know what, I'm gonna delete this post seeing as everyone else has dropped it, I'm just going to just drop it as well lol. Though, @ ChikoLad , if you want to ever continue it, hmu on skype or something cuz I saved my post just in case. Agree to respectfully disagree? Cuz I'd rather start off on the right foot with new people to our community rather than start off like this lol.

Though I will say, I am a competitive Mario Kart player and that comment hurt my feelings

 

[IsmaR]

The arguing itself is not the problem.

It's when one party of said argument has no idea what the argument is even about, and resorts to accusing the other side of the same.

 

[ChikoLad]

It's abundantly clear that you have an entirely different vision than I do in terms of how Mario Kart should play on both a casual and competitive level

On a casual level? No, I'm actually on the same boat as everyone else. When I play Mario Kart casually, I basically screw around. I also bump into people a lot because I think it's funny to knock people off the stage! When I play casually, I don't care about the luck elements at all either.

On a competitive level? Maybe so, but do note that besides the Coin thing (which I do think needs to be changed regardless, as it is redundant), I didn't say anything should be changed absolutely, only implemented as options. Which means it doesn't destroy your vision of MK at all, merely offers an alternative for players like me. And they are such small tweaks that they could easily be patched in. I perfectly understand your vision, and see the appeal of it. But to me, and a lot of other people, it isn't appealing. So I see no harm in throwing a bone towards people with my mindset.

This was basically my main problem with this entire debate. People kept telling me I want to destroy the essence of what Mario Kart is, even though everything I asked for, besides the coin thing (and I'm sure we can at least agree that the coin's presence as an item box item has NOTHING to do with the essence of Mario Kart, because it was only introduced in MK7), was asked for as nothing more than an alternative. You'd be justified in telling me I wanted to destroy the essence of Mario Kart if I was asking for these changes to completely replace the current way things are, but I merely want a few options in the options menu. That's it.

For example, just as a quick idea, I think a cool idea would be to include a "Super Mario Kart Mode", that just lets you play with the item set of Super Mario Kart, as I think that item set encourages competitive play pretty well. Again, it'd be an optional mode, so you'd never have to play it if you didn't want to play in that way.

Though I will say, I am a competitive Mario Kart player and that comment hurt my feelings

I didn't mean it as an offense, you just kept contradicting yourself in terms of what you thought was competitive, so it's only logical that I might doubt you in that sense. I don't believe I said you AREN'T competitive, it's just that it was hard to believe from your train of thought in here.

The arguing itself is not the problem.

It's when one party of said argument has no idea what the argument is even about, and resorts to accusing the other side of the same.

I don't believe anyone here was in that position.

 

[Sxips]

Anyone still up for some Mario Kart 7.

 

[ChikoLad]

Anyone still up for some Mario Kart 7.

I would, but I passed on buying it for myself.

 

[Gavitro]

I'm guaranteed to be wrong, but I hope there's less effort collecting coins to unlock vehicle parts.

I'm at around 1300+ coins and I still haven't unlocked my beloved Pipe Frame, I have to keep going to a Mushrooms-only community just to farm coins over and over (Yes I know a no-items community is better for this, but I have not found an active one).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Based on various sources, in Mario Kart 8, you earn a new part for every 50 coins that you collect. However, it's hard to say if the coin requirement for a new part will increase as your coin supply grows.

As for Mario Kart 7, for every six parts that you get, the amount of coins that you need for the next part will increase from 50, to 100, followed by 200, and then 500. Beast Glider is always the final non-gold part that you'd unlock.

 

[Phantom Gamer]

(and I'm sure we can at least agree that the coin's presence as an item box item has NOTHING to do with the essence of Mario Kart, because it was only introduced in MK7)

Just gonna say this statement is proof as to why people can't take your arguments seriously.
Like in this instance you're absolutely wrong since coins were first introduced in the original Mario Kart on the SNES and guess what? It was an item box item as well.

And since I'm sure you won't believe me just check out my evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vS7YDqjUSs#t=172
(go to 2:53 if it doesnt bring you to that time)

and this:
http://mariokart.wikia.com/wiki/Coin

"Super Mario Kart: Coins were used as units of psuedo-health. Coins were scattered on the ground and could be driven over like Question Blocks to be collected. If a player collected 10 or more coins, they could go faster- keeping these coins was a challenge, however, as any contact with other racers or items would result in a loss of one to four coins. Having no coins meant that any contact with any other racer would result in a spin-out. The Coin item, which could be acquired by Question Blocks, gave the user an additional 2 coins."


Also gonna say you'd hate your own example that you mentioned then (shown below). Since if there was a "Super Mario Kart Mode", which is very unlikely since they'd need to implement other items that aren't included in MK8, COINS would be one of the items included and you obviously seem to be against the existence of these coin items.

For example, just as a quick idea, I think a cool idea would be to include a "Super Mario Kart Mode", that just lets you play with the item set of Super Mario Kart, as I think that item set encourages competitive play pretty well. Again, it'd be an optional mode, so you'd never have to play it if you didn't want to play in that way.

 

[ChikoLad]

ust gonna say this statement is proof as to why people can't take your arguments seriously.
Like in this instance you're absolutely wrong since coins were first introduced in the original Mario Kart on the SNES and guess what? it was an item box item as well. Not to mention coins were also in the GBA game, Mario Kart: Super Circuit as well.

Fair enough, I concede I made a mistake in thinking coins as item box items originated in Mario Kart 7.

However, that still doesn't mean removing them would ruin the essence of Mario Kart, as they were absent altogether for quite a few installments, and nobody missed them at all, let alone as item box items. So really, you haven't properly countered my actual point, just proven that I haven't had much experience with Super Mario Kart and Super Circuit, even though I never claimed to have experience with them (and probably won't ever because they don't look all that fun to me in this day and age).

Also gonna say you'd hate your own example that you mentioned then (shown below). Since if there was a "Super Mario Kart Mode", which is very unlikely since they'd need to implement other items that aren't included in MK8, COINS would be one of the items included and you obviously seem to be against the existence of these coin items.

Not really, a Super Mario Kart Mode could simply be inspired by Super Mario Kart, it wouldn't have to match it to a tee. If it had to match it to a tee, then you may as well play Super Mario Kart. And personally, the Feather is an item I'd kinda like to see return in general.

I also never said such a feature was likely, I was just putting out an idea of mine. I don't think I'll see a mode like that in MK8, but there's always MK9 for big additions, is there not? Or maybe even MK8 DLC.

Also, while I do think the Coin being an item box item is a redundant design choice altogether, my main issue with it in MK8 is just that it's the most common item in first place, which causes a lot of issues, and I haven't been the first to say it. If it was less common or had more of a use, it would be a much less frustrating issue. I really don't mind something being redundant if it's frustrating.

 

[dimensionsword64]

I think the Coin problem would be fixed if Nintendo increased the number of coins you can have, so it would be harder to get the maximum and you wouldn't be stuck with a worthless item.

 

[ChikoLad]

From the looks of things, I think the biggest problem Mario Kart 8 has is the lack of GamePad support.

I mean, they couldn't even let it be used as a separate screen in two-player or anything.

It's kinda sad that Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed, a third party multi-platform title, makes really great use of the GamePad, while Mario Kart 8, a first party Nintendo title, does hardly anything with it.

I honestly get the feeling this game was rushed in many aspects. From the lack of single-player content, to Battle Mode (which sounds like it's going to be really terrible online), to lacking certain essential features online, to the character roster having two texture swaps and seven Koopalings (we really didn't need all seven, 3 or 4 would have been enough), to not being able to save custom vehicles, to MKTV being underwhelming, this game sounds like it seriously needs patches and DLC if it's going to be recognised as a truly great, modern kart racer.

 

[LF2K]

The Koopalings are pretty much all or nothing. If some got excluded, people would gripe about it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

What I really didn't like about Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed was that the GamePad was actually a rather poor controller for the game, even with the map advantage. You pretty much had to go all Wii U Pro Controller to be good at it, literally destroying the purpose of even having the map to begin with.

 

[ChikoLad]

What I really didn't like about Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed was that the GamePad was actually a rather poor controller for the game, even with the map advantage. You pretty much had to go all Wii U Pro Controller to be good at it, literally destroying the purpose of even having the map to begin with.

...I played through the entire World Tour with the GamePad just fine, and I generally used it as my primary controller. The World Tour was brutally difficult at times too.

Unless you are talking about using the gyroscope to steer. I can't remember if that was a feature in the game, but the button control scheme worked perfectly fine.

I know I'm probably gonna end up using the GamePad a lot in multiplayer in MK8 too.

The Koopalings are pretty much all or nothing. If some got excluded, people would gripe about it.

Maybe, but people griping about it would be pretty silly and wouldn't really have been taken seriously. The Koopalings were far from the most memorable Mario characters. The only people who generally care for them are hardcore Super Mario Bros 3 fans.

 

[dimensionsword64]

Maybe, but people griping about it would be pretty silly and wouldn't really have been taken seriously. The Koopalings were far from the most memorable Mario characters. The only people who generally care for them are hardcore Super Mario Bros 3 fans.

Lemmy Koopa is my favorite Mario character.

 

[LF2K]

Ludwig's my favorite of the villains. No one can top Luigi as the favorite overall character.

 

[ChikoLad]

I mean in general though.

I can understand people having them as favourites if they watched the SMB3 cartoon, for example, but those people are the minority, and in the games themselves, they were soulless, flavour of the month bosses. Some of them look overly similar to each other too (though other than that their designs are decent, considering they are just Koopas).

 

[LF2K]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the cartoon series. But I've liked the Koopalings regardless. They've had so much untapped potential, and now they're all finally playable.

 

[ChikoLad]

"They've had"

I'd still say any potential they have is still completely untapped. Mario Kart doesn't do anything to characterise them, playing as them is just down to whether or not their stats suit you or you like their design.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

...I played through the entire World Tour with the GamePad just fine, and I generally used it as my primary controller. The World Tour was brutally difficult at times too.

Unless you are talking about using the gyroscope to steer. I can't remember if that was a feature in the game, but the button control scheme worked perfectly fine.

I know I'm probably gonna end up using the GamePad a lot in multiplayer in MK8 too.

I guess my main complaint is that you could only use the Control Stick to steer in All-Stars Racing Transformed, and I could never really play right with the GamePad, hence why I resorted to the Pro Controller.

At least Mario Kart 8 lets you use the directional pad to steer, so using the GamePad will likely be more tolerable (and more vital) for that game.

On a side note, for those who think that Mario Kart 8 got rushed, look at Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 to see what a rushed game really looks like.

 

[LF2K]

I think they have tried to characterize them for this game. Lemmy sounds like a hyperactive child. Iggy is a psychopath. Ludwig sounds posh and sophisticated. Roy likes to gloat and show off. I can't say anything for Larry, Morton, and Wendy, though. I haven't really seen any gameplay of them.

 

[dimensionsword64]

What I really want is a mainstream Mario game that has them playable and shows more of their personality (ex: Ludwig playing the piano, Lemmy talking about how he wants to build a circus), but back to Mario Kart.

I think the Yoshi Bike is really cool. You can have Baby Mario riding Yoshi, or you can get crazy and have Bowser or Yoshi riding Yoshi.

 

[LF2K]

Yoshiception?

 

[ChikoLad]

I guess my main complaint is that you could only use the Control Stick to steer in All-Stars Racing Transformed, and I could never really play right with the GamePad, hence why I resorted to the Pro Controller.

At least Mario Kart 8 lets you use the directional pad to steer, so using the GamePad will likely be more tolerable (and more vital) for that game.

On a side note, for those who think that Mario Kart 8 got rushed, look at Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 to see what a rushed game really looks like.

I honestly prefer using a control stick to steer, which is probably why I didn't mind it. Control sticks allow for more subtle movements because you can tilt them. I've never heard of anyone explicitly preferring a D-pad for a kart racer. I even play Crash Team Racing with a control stick.

And Sonic '06 wasn't a rushed game, it was an example of a game that went through development hell. And even if it had all of the time in the world to be finished, it still would have had a lot of problems.

Mario Kart 8 may not have gone through development hell (to our knowledge), but it's still a rushed game as far as I'm concerned.

I think they have tried to characterize them for this game. Lemmy sounds like a hyperactive child. Iggy is a psychopath. Ludwig sounds posh and sophisticated. Roy likes to gloat and show off. I can't say anything for Larry, Morton, and Wendy, though. I haven't really seen any gameplay of them.

They are hardly unique though. Many of the other characters who are more developed have those same traits.

The babies are hyperactive children.
Waluigi is a psychopath.
Rosalina is sophisticated.
And every character showboats and gloats in Mario Kart. Heck, it's an actual mechanic in the form of tricks.

 

[IsmaR]

That's a bunch of arse and you know it. The Koopalings have been getting characterized for every game since Super Mario World. Just because they seem like boring flavors of the month doesn't to you doesn't mean they are. If Mario Kart can give a personality to Metal Mario of all things, then it's safe to assume they can do so for mini-Bowsers.

Unless now all characters have to be like Wiggler to be truly "fleshed out."

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ ChikoLad : I still find it very ironic that a game that was in development since 2012 would be criticized for being rushed, though I guess when the game only uses around 4.83 GB on the Wii U hard drive, you can't help but be highly suspicious about the game's contents.

 

[LF2K]

Speaking of Metal Mario, wonder what they've done with Pink Gold Peach? Surely she has some sort of personality.

 

[ChikoLad]

That's a bunch of arse and you know it. The Koopalings have been getting characterized for every game since Super Mario World. Just because they seem like boring flavors of the month doesn't to you doesn't mean they are. If Mario Kart can give a personality to Metal Mario of all things, then it's safe to assume they can do so for mini-Bowsers.

Unless now all characters have to be like Wiggler to be truly "fleshed out."

They are literally called "Bowser's Minions" in Europe, in the NSMB games. :I
Such fleshed out characters. They are in the same light as a Goomba! :D

And a quote from the Mario Wiki:

The Koopalings' individual personalities have not been fleshed out much besides their desire to cause mayhem and their loyalty to Bowser. However, there were some hints in various supplementary materials. Some of the personalities changed between localizations. For example, Roy in the American localizations was depicted in a manner similar to a bully (which also earned him the name "Bully" in the DIC cartoons), but Japanese materials give him a calm and collected demeanor. The Japanese manual for Super Mario Bros. 3 gave each of the Koopalings several quirks unique to each of them that hinted at their individual personalities with some speeches uttered by them. However, the American translation toned down several of these quirks or removed them altogether. Although loyal to Bowser, they also did not wish to be on the receiving end of Bowser's rage if they failed a task, as evidenced by Larry's reason for why he and the other Koopalings will not give up the king's scepters easily to Mario in Super Mario Bros 3, as he stated that the alternative would be to get yelled at by Bowser.

The Koopalings' individual personalities have not been fleshed out much besides their desire to cause mayhem and their loyalty to Bowser.

The Koopalings' individual personalities have not been fleshed out much

have not been fleshed out much

-------

@ ChikoLad : I still find it very ironic that a game that was in development since 2012 would be criticized for being rushed, though I guess when the game only uses around 4.83 GB on the Wii U hard drive, you can't help but be highly suspicious about the game's contents.

Whether or not a game is rushed is relative to what it actually is.

An indie game, for example, with 2D graphics, could spend a year in development, and feel completely fleshed out.

However, Mario Kart is a AAA, first party franchise. With that in mind:

-They shouldn't have had to re-hash actual racetracks for Battle Mode.
-They shouldn't have characters that are just texture swaps taking up their own space on the roster.
-They should have an "Invite" option online, but you apparently can't invite friends into a game, they have to manually join it themselves.
-You should be able to save custom vehicles. Having to manually go through all of the parts, especially with that impractical slot machine interface, every time I want to change my vehicle, is a huge pain. At the LEAST, I should be able to choose matching parts automatically as one vehicle, like the older games.
-MKTV should be more fleshed out, since it was advertised so heavily.
-It should have some more practical use of the GamePad. Even just being able to use it as a separate screen, and to make 5-player local play possible, would have been fine.

That's how you know MK8 is rushed.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Then I guess Mario Kart 8 is a complete failure, all because of those flaws. Might as well throw the Wii U to the graveyard and just forget about Smash 4.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lol @ MK8 being rushed. If it were rushed it wouldve been a release title for the Wii U.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Lol @ MK8 being rushed. If it were rushed it wouldve been a release title for the Wii U.

And be released by Christmas as well. Tropical Freeze was originally planned to be out by Christmas, but was delayed until February to avoid any competition with 3D World. Since Mario Kart 8 will be out before summer officially starts, that'll pretty much give Smash 4 no immediate competition for next Christmas, unless E3 2014 has other plans.

I will admit that Metal Mario and Pink Gold Peach were unnecessary additions (why them over Diddy and Bowser Jr. is beyond me), but the Koopalings are anything but unnecessary.

 

[dimensionsword64]

@ ChikoLad
So everything Mario Wiki says is 100% true, even if it's an opinion?

Also, I'm pretty sure I heard (before Mario Kart 8 was announced) that the new Mario Kart was supposed to come out later that year, and it didn't. That's not what I call rushed.

 

[ChikoLad]

Then I guess Mario Kart 8 is a complete failure, all because of those flaws. Might as well throw the Wii U to the graveyard and just forget about Smash 4.

...What?

So saying the game has some flaws that are the result of rushed development, that I'd like to see patched, means I think the game is useless? No, it means I want the best for the game, and would like some glaring issues addressed. This is 2014, and Wii U is supposed to be a console that fully supports online features - this should include developers patching their games when they have easily fixable problems. Third party developers have been doing this just fine. Nintendo has not been doing a lot of it.

Miyamoto even admitted that Nintendo underestimated HD development.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/miyamoto-says-nintendo-underestimated-challenge-of-hd-games/

Again, if third parties can do this stuff, why shouldn't Nintendo?

Lol @ MK8 being rushed. If it were rushed it wouldve been a release title for the Wii U.

You have no concept of how games development works, do you?

Whatever, I've shown evidence of MK8's rushed aspects, I need not say anymore.

@ ChikoLad
So everything Mario Wiki says is 100% true, even if it's an opinion?

Also, I'm pretty sure I heard (before Mario Kart 8 was announced) that the new Mario Kart was supposed to come out later that year, and it didn't. That's not what I call rushed.

No, but what they stated there was not an opinion. The Koopalings hardly have any official material to flesh them out as characters, and the games themselves literally do nothing interesting with them. They are just bosses, nothing more.

 

[Gatlin]

I actually am very excited to play Lemmy/Larry, glad that they were added.

Also, some MK8 footage via stream if anyone is interested: http://www.twitch.tv/gtseboss

 

[dimensionsword64]

No, but what they stated there was not an opinion. The Koopalings hardly have any official material to flesh them out as characters, and the games themselves literally do nothing interesting with them. They are just bosses, nothing more.

Technically, that is an opinion.

And they are fleshed out fairly well. You can tell a lot about them.
Ludwig is cocky. He laughs at you when you fight him and is extremely surprised when he loses.
Iggy is crazy and cocky. He taunts you and uses machinery. He also has the swirly eyes and giant specs, which give the impression of a mad scientist.
There's a lot more to them than meets the eye.

 

[Phantom Gamer]

1.They shouldn't have characters that are just texture swaps taking up their own space on the roster.
2.They should have an "Invite" option online, but you apparently can't invite friends into a game, they have to manually join it themselves.

1. Well for me at least they only did this for two characters.
2. So it'd be too hard for you to just join a friend's online game?

 

[Substitution]

I was gonna keep quiet about this. But it's gotten too far.
@ ChikoLad
Then again, one could say that flawed =/= bad.
You're making it sound like this game will be terrible because of said flaws. Like the game committed some crime because God forbid it has the Koopalings, that items aren't balanced, or all those nitpicks you have above. And yes, I understand this is a "AAA" game. But that doesn't mean it can't have flaws. Or should be condemned because it's not "perfect" in your eyes.
That's not how the world works. You can't always get what you want. You're making this a bigger situation than it really is.

Sure, there are some things that could've been made a little better (like Battle Mode). But that doesn't mean the game will the worst thing ever.
And I'm not saying "get over it", but what I am saying is we should just accept the flaws and appreciate the game for what it is.
At least Gatlin could.

...What?

So saying the game has some flaws that are the result of rushed development, that I'd like to see patched, means I think the game is useless? No, it means I want the best for the game, and would like some glaring issues addressed.

Really now? Because judging by these past few posts I could think otherwise.
And yes, I understand those problems that for some reason have to be addressed (Still don't get why however). But looking at them they come off to me as nitpicking/opinions (4 player multiplayer is just fine; The retextured characters aren't as bad as you think. Heck, Metal Mario had been around for a long time, it's not like they just thought of him now or filler; MKTV let's face it was more of a novel gimmick, it's not like it was meant for some big idea in the long run; The "joining" aspect if anything works better manually. What if you don't want to join? You should at least have the option. Besides, it's not that hard to pick "OK").

This is 2014, and Wii U is supposed to be a console that fully supports online features - this should include developers patching their games when they have easily fixable problems. Third party developers have been doing this just fine. Nintendo has not been doing a lot of it.

You're making it sound like that's a bad thing. If anything, it shows quality playtesting in their games.
Patching is meant for games that for one reason or another have a glaring issue that no one caught during development and need to be fixed immediately. Like an apology in the form of data.
And for God's sake you don't wear them like a badge! They're not "battle scars", they show you screwed up!

No, but what they stated there was not an opinion. The Koopalings hardly have any official material to flesh them out as characters, and the games themselves literally do nothing interesting with them. They are just bosses, nothing more.

Oh what? And the other Mario Kart characters are just bursting with personality and depth?
Don't single out the Koopalings with just this. What about Dry Bones? Or Koopa Troopa? Maybe even Shy Guy? Last time I checked they have just as much personality as the kids. And yet somehow they get out scratch free in this. What's with that?!

 

[Mysteltainn]

I think they have tried to characterize them for this game. Lemmy sounds like a hyperactive child. Iggy is a psychopath. Ludwig sounds posh and sophisticated. Roy likes to gloat and show off. I can't say anything for Larry, Morton, and Wendy, though. I haven't really seen any gameplay of them.

Yes, their personalities have really jumped out in Mario Kart 8. Sonic is right about them being rather soulless in the actual Mario series, but Nintendo really breathed life into them here.

Roy - Has that cool kid aura to him. "I wear my sunglasses at night"
Morton - Goofy with his Fat Albert-esque "Hey hey hey!!". He seems to be portrayed as the big lug-type character.
Ludwig - Sophisticated as you pointed out, and strikes me as the nerd of the crew. I like his voice in MK8, and is probably my favourite Koopaling (dat hair).
Wendy - Seems to have the "girl with the attitude" thing going on judging from the footage I've seen.
Iggy - Overall crazy, sinister and up to no good, yet intelligent.
Larry - Seems to be the most modest of the crew, but he's also the one I've seen the least of.
Lemmy - Appears to be forever pulsing with energy. As you mentioned, a hyperactive Koopa.

 

[dimensionsword64]

Yes, their personalities have really jumped out in Mario Kart 8. Sonic is right about them being rather soulless in the actual Mario series, but Nintendo really breathed life into them here.

Roy - Has that cool kid aura to him. "I wear my sunglasses at night"
Morton - Goofy with his Fat Albert-esque "Hey hey hey!!". He seems to be portrayed as the big lug-type character.
Ludwig - Sophisticated as you pointed out, and strikes me as the nerd of the crew. I like his voice in MK8, and is probably my favourite Koopaling (dat hair).
Wendy - Seems to have the "girl with the attitude" thing going on judging from the footage I've seen.
Iggy - Overall crazy, sinister and up to no good, yet intelligent.
Larry - Seems to be the most modest of the crew, but he's also the one I've seen the least of.
Lemmy - Adorable.

Fixed.