Social Mario Hotel - Super Social 4

[A2ZOMG]

Hey Mario mains! I'm a Luigi main and I'm looking to start using Mario as a secondary to cover his really bad match ups -- specifically Villager (it was between Fox and Mario so I'm going double plumber cause style). Turns out Mario playsreally differently. Are there any video guides anyone can recommend to get me started?

Vs Villager is hilarious if he doesn't understand how to play against reflectors. His DA, Fair/B-air, F-smash, Tree, and SideB all can be Caped for funny results (be aware if he actually Pockets a reflected item, that gets really dangerous). Otherwise most of the matchup revolves around doing aerial -> Jab on him constantly until he dies because he's a tether grabber. He'll try to keep you out with tilts and slingshot spam, but mostly you primarily have to be afraid of him edgeguarding you with that D-air and just remember his U-smash is also a KO move.

Also, @Fire! and his old Brawl Mario guide isn't a bad place to start. Mario doesn't play a whole lot different from Brawl really once you factor the extremely obvious specific changes from Brawl to Smash 4.

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

So a piece of matchup knowledge I learned.

I would say always charge Fludd in the Zelda matchup. If a Zelda tries to run to corner and use Din's Fire you can react with Fludd to push Zelda off the stage and force her into special fall.

 

[HeroMystic]

Din's Fire is pretty bad to use on stage anyway.

 

[MrM]

Vs pac man

Idk if anyone went over this but when he is using is upb if you jump out and get the third bounce he will just fall to his death its hilarious

vs fastfallers

Low percents you can uthrow uair dair i play on 3ds so my dair is kinda fast falled i want someone to use this on wiiu cause im sure you can pop them into the air with the dair after uair then continue the combo if it works like 3ds then just read which way the dair pushes them on the ground and go for the grab.

vs fox and falco

Been seeing a lot of these two lately and i have notice that you can get a very free edgeguard if you cape them while charging their upb i feel cheap doing it its that easy if you get the read fast enough i usually set it up by fludding the ledge when they use sideb to force them into using upb

Mario tech

Am i the only one who loves using bair uair utilt you can do the bair and the uair in one shorthop if the uair hits you can utilt and continue to combo

Let me know if any of this helps anyone

 

[Inferno3044]

Ally's Mario is hella cute.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I haven't seen Ally's Mario.

I'd like to see it actually. I feel like watching it will tell me how I need to develop as a player. Something that has been bothering me an extraordinary amount lately. So if anybody has good vids link me to them please.

Also, hi everyone. It's been a while.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ask @ HeroMystic for that given I don't have the link to the twitch archive. Personally me, I felt like a lot of Ally's playstyle is sorta impossible to replicate and I wouldn't recommend attempting several of the reads he's able to pull off.

 

[HeroMystic]

Hey Xero. Ask and you shall receive.

Here's his Latest stuff. He won this tourney about two days ago.

Ally(Mario/Diddy) vs Poke(Luigi) [1/25/2015] [Neo Canada 5]
Ally(Mario/Diddy) vs MeekSpeedy(Sonic) [1/25/2015] [Neo Canada 5]
Ally(Mario/Diddy) vs NAKAT(Fox/Ness) [1/25/2015] [Neo Canada 5(WF)]
Ally(Mario) vs Chrim Foish(Diddy) [1/25/2015] [Neo Canada 5]
Ally(Mario/Diddy) vs NAKAT(Ness/Fox) [1/25/2015] [Neo Canada 5(GF)]

You can find his other videos here: http://smashboards.com/threads/mari...hread-updated-1-26-2015.382022/#post-18154283

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

It's not about replicating a playstyle at all. I feel like I'm lacking something fundamental in my game that I should have to move on from a "pretty good" player to a high/top level player. The problem is that I can't figure out what exactly it is. What I want to learn from watching Ally's videos is what a top-level player's perspective of a character I'm extremely well-versed is, and where differences in our decisions lie.

Although to be honest, I'm not even sure where my skill level lies in this game, I haven't gone to a tournament yet. :x

Also thanks a bunch Hero.

 

[BOXINGKING]

here are some videos from the best luigi in europe. he recently won an international tounament over here, j.miller:
jmiller (luigi) vs bking (pikachu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmMctW-zn1s

 

[Ffamran]

here are some videos from the best luigi in europe. he recently won an international tounament over here, j.miller:
jmiller (luigi) vs bking (pikachu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmMctW-zn1s

Wrong character board? This is the Mario boards.

 

[HeroMystic]

Green Mario is allowed.

 

[Ffamran]

I thought Green Mario wasn't allowed or anyone with a MD or eats a lot of garlic.

 

[HeroMystic]

Are you questioning your new overlord?

 

[Ffamran]

I'm my own overduck.

 

[HeroMystic]

I'mma shake shake your beak off.

 

[Lavani]

Green Mario is allowed.

I'm okay with this.

 

[Ffamran]

Welp, time to hide my head. Can't shake, shake my beak off now, huh?

 

[HeroMystic]

Damn.

Daffy Duck for Top Tier.

 

[Langston777]

Anyone Mario players up for some matches against a Marth sometime on Wii U?

Apparently you guys hate us but I've lost to just about every Mario main i've played against so I'd like to get some practice in. Inopportune time to ask this since I'm booked for the rest of the day (and possibly tomorrow) except maybe around 10 tonight, EST.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It's not about replicating a playstyle at all. I feel like I'm lacking something fundamental in my game that I should have to move on from a "pretty good" player to a high/top level player. The problem is that I can't figure out what exactly it is. What I want to learn from watching Ally's videos is what a top-level player's perspective of a character I'm extremely well-versed is, and where differences in our decisions lie.

Although to be honest, I'm not even sure where my skill level lies in this game, I haven't gone to a tournament yet. :x

Also thanks a bunch Hero.

The thing about Ally is...honestly, I don't think it's possible for most people to emulate his sheer reaction time. His spacing is literally impossibly good. At that point, he's just playing a totally different game.

I don't think he's doing anything specifically new, or making decisions that nobody else could reason with, with the assumption you had his level of reaction speed. But just watch how good he is at simply standing and waiting. It's not even a question of mindset or decisions anymore. Ally is basically one of the only players who would be able to do that.

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

Besides crafty combos (Up Throw into Dair into Fair at 0% ??? Whaaa)
Ally's real strength is that his matchup knowledge is insanely good which enables him to make great reads.
Your reaction's are always gonna look godlike if you just know exactly what your opponent is going to do.

Plus his ability to make reads enables him to avoid keeping his opponent at those awkward percents. Mario is so fun until your opponent is at 60% ish and you can't combo or kill so you just kind of end up throwing stuff out there without much payoff.

 

[HeroMystic]

That combo is something we've known about for months now.

EDIT: I'm more impressed by Ally's use of D-tilt, and it's something I'm going to add into my game.

Ally is an amazing player but I wouldn't put him on such a high pedestal and say "no one can match him". His reaction time has proven to be faster than most but that's mainly because he has trained so much and learned how to predict quickly.

He also has very good synergy with Mario. Ideally, whenever he picks up Diddy he should be beating the snot out of anyone and everyone, but any competitive player worth their salt would see that his Diddy is not better than his Mario. Maybe that'll change later.

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

Knowing about a combo and seeing it in a high level match are entirely different things.

Also where do people in this board generally see mario's place tier-wise. Like I get that Diddy is the problem of the week and is probably a better character than mario anyway you look at it but really who else clearly outranks Mario?

 

[HeroMystic]

Clearly outranks Mario?

I'd say Sheik, Pikachu, ZSS, and Sonic for sure. That's just me being generous. Mario (and Luigi) are both great characters in this game but neither are top tiers. The majority places Mario on the edge of Top 20.

 

[hey_there]

Clearly outranks Mario?

I'd say Sheik, Pikachu, ZSS, and Sonic for sure. That's just me being generous. Mario (and Luigi) are both great characters in this game but neither are top tiers. The majority places Mario on the edge of Top 20.

Having gone a few days really grinding with Mario now, I definitely feel Luigi + Mario is a pretty potent combination. They seem to cover each other's rough match ups really well and they're really fun to play. Neither of them may be top tiers, but speaking as a Luigi main, I feel much more secure with Mario as a secondary.

 

[HeroMystic]

Having gone a few days really grinding with Mario now, I definitely feel Luigi + Mario is a pretty potent combination. They seem to cover each other's rough match ups really well and they're really fun to play. Neither of them may be top tiers, but speaking as a Luigi main, I feel much more secure with Mario as a secondary.

For curiosity's sake, what is considered to be Luigi's bad MUs?

 

[hey_there]

For curiosity's sake, what is considered to be Luigi's bad MUs?

Villager is Luigi's worst match up, but Duck Hunt and Pac-Man and occasionally Toon Link are also characters that can be difficult to approach when they're camping hard due to Luigi's awful aerial mobility. Olimar, Peach, and Mega Man are characters that I think Mario might deal with better than Luigi, but I don't have the match up experience with Mario to say for sure. Luigi doesn't do badly against them in any case, though Mega Man's lemons are tough to deal with. Mario also makes the Robin and Ness match up much easier in my opinion, but Luigi isn't really at a disadvantage there anyway.

A lot of Luigi mains consider Sheik to be a terrible match up as well, but that hasn't been my experience. Not that it's necessarily an easy match up (Luigi's at a disadvantage imo), just that Luigi can combo her right back and is very willing to trade because he KOs much earlier than she can. I don't think Mario helps against Sheik though =P.

I had a match against a Villager on For Glory last night and caping his crap was so satisfying.

 

[HeroMystic]

Villager is Luigi's worst match up, but Duck Hunt and Pac-Man and occasionally Toon Link are also characters that can be difficult to approach when they're camping hard due to Luigi's awful aerial mobility. Olimar, Peach, and Mega Man are characters that I think Mario might deal with better than Luigi, but I don't have the match up experience with Mario to say for sure. Luigi doesn't do badly against them in any case, though Mega Man's lemons are tough to deal with. Mario also makes the Robin and Ness match up much easier in my opinion, but Luigi isn't really at a disadvantage there anyway.

A lot of Luigi mains consider Sheik to be a terrible match up as well, but that hasn't been my experience. Not that it's necessarily an easy match up (Luigi's at a disadvantage imo), just that Luigi can combo her right back and is very willing to trade because he KOs much earlier than she can. I don't think Mario helps against Sheik though =P.

I had a match against a Villager on For Glory last night and caping his crap was so satisfying.

So essentially Mario handles characters who can camp Luigi, and Luigi handles characters who can out-space Mario (Marth, Ike, etc.).

I'm pretty sure both Mario and Luigi are at a disadvantage vs Sheik, though imo I think Luigi handles her better because Mario's edgeguard capabilities aren't worth much at all here. Popular opinion here is Sheik is Mario's hardest MU, but I don't have evidence to back that up.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Villager is Luigi's worst match up, but Duck Hunt and Pac-Man and occasionally Toon Link are also characters that can be difficult to approach when they're camping hard due to Luigi's awful aerial mobility. Olimar, Peach, and Mega Man are characters that I think Mario might deal with better than Luigi, but I don't have the match up experience with Mario to say for sure. Luigi doesn't do badly against them in any case, though Mega Man's lemons are tough to deal with. Mario also makes the Robin and Ness match up much easier in my opinion, but Luigi isn't really at a disadvantage there anyway.

A lot of Luigi mains consider Sheik to be a terrible match up as well, but that hasn't been my experience. Not that it's necessarily an easy match up (Luigi's at a disadvantage imo), just that Luigi can combo her right back and is very willing to trade because he KOs much earlier than she can. I don't think Mario helps against Sheik though =P.

I had a match against a Villager on For Glory last night and caping his crap was so satisfying.

Mario is also pretty awful against Duck Hunt to be frank. And I would very much rather play Luigi vs Peach, and both Mario and Luigi have a hard time against Ness imo, while Doc actually makes that matchup a lot easier simply because Pills can't be absorbed which means you force him to approach and don't risk healing him by edgeguarding with Pills.

 

[HeroMystic]

 

[hey_there]

Mario is also pretty awful against Duck Hunt to be frank. And I would very much rather play Luigi vs Peach, and both Mario and Luigi have a hard time against Ness imo, while Doc actually makes that matchup a lot easier simply because Pills can't be absorbed which means you force him to approach and don't risk healing him by edgeguarding with Pills.

Peach doesn't feel like a bad match up, but I thought Mario might have an easier time due to superior air mobility. Again, I'm still new to this character. Personally I've never had too much trouble against Ness as Luigi, but maybe I'll try out Doc. I tried out Doc before Mario because I like Tornado better than FLUDD, but I found him pretty underwhelming compared to Mario.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Any Mario veterans play on WiFi? I'd like to get some games in and see what the rest of you are doing sometime.

 

[HeroMystic]

When are you online, Xero? I can't play tonight but I'm sure I can play tomorrow.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Tomorrow I'll be at a tournament for most of the day. Should be back by 10PM EST though.

I'll send you a friend request. I get on sporadically throughout the week, usually in the evening after class or homework.

 

[Inferno3044]

Knowing about a combo and seeing it in a high level match are entirely different things.

Also where do people in this board generally see mario's place tier-wise. Like I get that Diddy is the problem of the week and is probably a better character than mario anyway you look at it but really who else clearly outranks Mario?

This board is very mixed. Some people think he's bad and others think he's good. Personally, I think Mario is somewhere between 10-15. Honestly, it's just on the simple fact that I think that there are are at least 10 characters better than Mario, but not 15. He wins a lot of matchups and can fight more or less the whole cast. I see a few bad match ups in Shulk, Rosalina, Luigi, and Marth/Lucina, but everything else is winnable or in Mario's advantage.

 

[Xeze]

Eh, let Mario be considered bad and then watch him still winning games and getting to finals. It's more fun this way

 

[A2ZOMG]

Any Mario veterans play on WiFi? I'd like to get some games in and see what the rest of you are doing sometime.

I'm just usually playing For Glory over here. It's gotten to the point where I'm usually bored of playing Ganon and Mario.

I'll play you, but I'd prefer to avoid Mario dittos.

 

[HeroMystic]

I feel like ragging on Bo for his SD on Apex.

 

[Inferno3044]

I feel like ragging on Bo for his obsessive use of fair at Apex.