Mario = high teir

[boss8]

Vids or it didn't happen, Boss

u live in bowie??? i wuz just down there 2 days ago at the new carlton metro station we should....smash sometimes dont worry after all the turneys i go to i will record some.....

 

[BoTastic!]

Have you looked at the Ike boards?

Just because the Ike boards thinks so doesn't mean he has the advantage. i personally think the match up is even. Range and power doesn't mean everything.

u live in bowie??? i wuz just down there 2 days ago at the new carlton metro station we should....smash sometimes dont worry after all the turneys i go to i will record some.....

would like to see that

 

[Matador]

u live in bowie??? i wuz just down there 2 days ago at the new carlton metro station we should....smash sometimes dont worry after all the turneys i go to i will record some.....

Hell, why didn't u tell me?!
Definitely, we need to smash sometime. u live 2 close...

 

[lajackson07]

Just because the Ike boards thinks so doesn't mean he has the advantage. i personally think the match up is even. Range and power doesn't mean everything.

I was referring to the "people should be complaining about how Ike sucks" comment, not the actual matchup.

 

[Matador]

No one said Ike sucks. He's just not as good as people make him out to be.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Just because the Ike boards thinks so doesn't mean he has the advantage. i personally think the match up is even. Range and power doesn't mean everything.

Ike vs Mario is definitely in Mario's favor.

Ike doesn't have any safe approaches except for a perfectly spaced F-air or N-air. And you can stuff these approaches with Fireball camping. Not to mention everything else.

U-smash out of shield is waaaaaay too good against Ike when he's above you. I'm not kidding. If Ike is above you, he really can't avoid U-smash out of shield, which is letting Ike hit your shield, and then U-smashing out of it (needs tap jump on).

The only thing you need to worry about is Ike's jab combo, which will punish spotdodges.

And of course, Ike is easily gimped by Mario. This goes without saying really.

 

[lajackson07]

U-smash out of shield is waaaaaay too good against Ike when he's above you. I'm not kidding. If Ike is above you, he really can't avoid U-smash out of shield, which is letting Ike hit your shield, and then U-smashing out of it (needs tap jump on).

Not that I'm campaigning for Ike, I just disagree with the statement. Ike's Dair range horribly trumps Mario's Up Smash range. Some Ikes don't use that move at all or to its potential.

Edit: read the "out of shield part" but still Ike could Dair and DI (don't know if DI is the appropriate word) away.

Ike has many options to attack someone from above. I don't feel like listing them but if you need convincing, I gladly provide some.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Vids or it didn't happen, Boss

Agreed. We know you're an awesome Mario but evidence of your statements would be nice.

Have you looked at the Ike boards?

Unfortunately, yes... For almost two months after Brawl was released, it believed that Ike was high/top tier and even had a strong advantage over Metaknight. Then it was revealed that Ike wasn't that great (Azen dropping him probably heavily contributed to this) and was probably low tier. Then the Ike board basically turned into one giant whining/denial fest for about a month. People like Rok the Reaper helped the Ike boards sink even further. Now, the Ike board is just kind of dead with the only new contributions being old threads that comboking copies. In my opinion, the only board that's worse is the Captain Falcon board for obvious reasons. With that being said, I don't think it's all that credible compared to people who are actually realistic about their characters like the Jigglypuff or Link boards instead of the mentality "oh, well, you just suck as him. You're not trying hard enough."

 

[Judge Judy]

I've always wondered what people think Mario is so outclassed, I mean he's a beast at juggling and racking up dmg and he can't be beat when it come to gimping. I hear too many people complain how Mario sucks and then when you ask them why they either talk about the FLUDD or just say the meaningless phrase "cause he's gay".

 

[ShadowLink84]

but FLUDD is awesome.

"cleanse the humans of this earth!" >_>

but yeah mario is a decent character, granted what holds him back is the lack of a dependable projectile and he cannot go as far out as some other characters can so gimping those with above average recoveries can be difficulty.

he is still a good character.

 

[Judge Judy]

Whaat do you mean by not dependable? Mario's fireball is a very good projectile and can be used to both setup and approach which makes it very unique.

 

[Matador]

but FLUDD is awesome.

"cleanse the humans of this earth!" >_>

but yeah mario is a decent character, granted what holds him back is the lack of a dependable projectile and he cannot go as far out as some other characters can so gimping those with above average recoveries can be difficulty.

he is still a good character.

Fireball sucks for camping and forcing approaches, but good for spacing and creating openings for starting up combos all while racking up damage.

Capeglide remedies this. It sends him about half the distance of FD off the stage on cape momentum alone. Ordinarily, this wouldn't be anything special, but the fact that you retain your doublejump afterward makes this technique great. Capeglide -> Fair meteor is guaranteed and you can easily return to the stage (granted you've hit them with the cape during the capeglide). Fludd reaches out pretty far as well and kills momentum toward the stage.

 

[Judge Judy]

You can sort of camp with the FLUDD too since it pretty much stops opponents if it comes in contact with a hitbox. FLUDD ***** aerial approaches.

 

[Falconv1.0]

What arguement? That Ike being middle tier is definately a stretch or that Mario's recovery isn't that great? Also, how could you never use quick draw to recover? That makes zero sense. Aether definately doesn't get the job done except when your close up and has even less horizontal movement than Kirby's Final Cutter. It's be virtually impossible for Ike to live past like 60% if he were knocked off the stage if what you are saying was true. Heck, all someone like Mario or the Ice Climbers would have to do is spam their projectiles to knock him back just a tiny bit to royally screw up his recovery if he always depended on aether.

Fair has a decent amount of ending and landing lag, bair is great in the air but probably half the roster can duck under a RAR'd one on the ground, jab is fairly easy to shield grab and some characters can even get an attack in before the third hit, in the right hands, a lot of characters have great spikes, and uair's in general are good for platforms (including Mario).

Ike doesn't have that many great matchups either because, as already mentioned, anyone with a decent projectile, off stage game, or decent aerial mobility can take advantage of him. Ike was once said to have an advantage over a lot of characters but that has greatly changed as time has passed. Metaknight? You wish. Mr. Game and Watch? Nope. Diddy Kong? Sorry. Ness? Not anymore. Pikachu? Maybe against the computer now. As you can see, a lot has changed and Ike is no where close to the high tier spot that people once imagined him at.

Use Ike more, you'll see at any range that QD could even get him to the edge, Aether can. Trust me, and every other smart Ike main on this, lol. Seriously, QD is horrible at **** near everything, including recovery, something we actually figured out BEFORE LAUNCH.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I've always wondered what people think Mario is so outclassed, I mean he's a beast at juggling and racking up dmg and he can't be beat when it come to gimping. I hear too many people complain how Mario sucks and then when you ask them why they either talk about the FLUDD or just say the meaningless phrase "cause he's gay".

It's because people want a character that takes like a week to learn like Metaknight and Marth. (This is coming from a former Metaknight main.) This is why, despite doing great in tournaments, characters like Wario and Lucario are underused. Most people lack patience to spend the time with someone who doesn't give them KOs on a silver platter like Sonic, Shiek, Diddy, and Mario. Eh, what can you do?

 

[Judge Judy]

Mario's gimps give you near instant KOs on many characters though. People like Falco or DK with telegraphed recoveries can be gimped from a mere backthrow near the ledge at 0%.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Mario's gimps give you near instant KOs on many characters though. People like Falco or DK with telegraphed recoveries can be gimped from a mere backthrow near the ledge at 0%.

How often do you think that happens though?

Use Ike more, you'll see at any range that QD could even get him to the edge, Aether can. Trust me, and every other smart Ike main on this, lol. Seriously, QD is horrible at **** near everything, including recovery, something we actually figured out BEFORE LAUNCH.

Here are several videos of a professional Japanese Ike player:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HFYVQ8qyLo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Dfx0mkQuI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntg2EBOQwno

His performances> your statement that quickdraw is near useless and should never be used as method of recovery.

Also, Ike isn't one of my mains but I train with every character in the game to better understand their strengths/weaknesses and match ups. Regarding Ike, it's definately not smart to fully rely on aether from far distance or even medium distances if you're up against someone who can decently gimp or is good at "hugging." With Aether, you almost always have to aim for the edge; with quickdraw, you don't have to if you're sent up high enough. Ike falls pretty fast too so, like I said, it's not smart to always depend on it like stages like Final Destination and Lylat Cruise. It's reasonable on stages like Yoshi's Island and Pictochat, sure, but go on a stage like Frigate Orpheon and you'll be singing the blues whenever you're higher than 60%.

 

[Judge Judy]

How often do you think that happens though?

I don't know, how often do high level players get infinited?

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't know, how often do high level players get infinited?

Truth be told, not that often because DK, Wario, and Ness would definately be doing much worse if it really was that much of an issue. Seriously, a trained monkey could do any of the infinites against them.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Actually they don't get hit very often Since Marth
s gra range is nowhere near as large as it used to be.

Its still gay if it happens though.

 

[Falconv1.0]

How often do you think that happens though?



Here are several videos of a professional Japanese Ike player:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HFYVQ8qyLo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Dfx0mkQuI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntg2EBOQwno

His performances> your statement that quickdraw is near useless and should never be used as method of recovery.

Also, Ike isn't one of my mains but I train with every character in the game to better understand their strengths/weaknesses and match ups. Regarding Ike, it's definately not smart to fully rely on aether from far distance or even medium distances if you're up against someone who can decently gimp or is good at "hugging." With Aether, you almost always have to aim for the edge; with quickdraw, you don't have to if you're sent up high enough. Ike falls pretty fast too so, like I said, it's not smart to always depend on it like stages like Final Destination and Lylat Cruise. It's reasonable on stages like Yoshi's Island and Pictochat, sure, but go on a stage like Frigate Orpheon and you'll be singing the blues whenever you're higher than 60%.

QD isn't impossible to use, and he used it pretty well, but he doesn't strike me as...pro.

And maybe it's because I didn't really pay close attention to the vid, but it seems like Aether was used to get to the ledge almost every time.

EDIT: 1st vid, QD like 3 times, Aether 0, 2nd Aether 3, QD2, 3rd Aether 5 times, QD once.

8/6 and either way, my point still stands, a video of some un named player I have never seen before wont change my opinion.

 

[Fatmanonice]

When he was close and below the edge. Also, godSSBB channel features some of the best players in Japan like Captain Jack as does Kamekasu's channel.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Also, godSSBB channel features some of the best players in Japan like Captain Jack as does Kamekasu's channel.

I'll keep that in mind, lol.

 

[BoTastic!]

This thread is 7 pages long now...

wow in such short time...

 

[lajackson07]

Unfortunately, yes... For almost two months after Brawl was released, it believed that Ike was high/top tier and even had a strong advantage over Metaknight. Then it was revealed that Ike wasn't that great (Azen dropping him probably heavily contributed to this) and was probably low tier. Then the Ike board basically turned into one giant whining/denial fest for about a month. People like Rok the Reaper helped the Ike boards sink even further. Now, the Ike board is just kind of dead with the only new contributions being old threads that comboking copies. In my opinion, the only board that's worse is the Captain Falcon board for obvious reasons. With that being said, I don't think it's all that credible compared to people who are actually realistic about their characters like the Jigglypuff or Link boards instead of the mentality "oh, well, you just suck as him. You're not trying hard enough."

My point exactly.

 

[Takeshi245]

There's no professional circuit for Brawl players in Japan and the U.S. as of yet. That means they don't get paid to play Brawl. If they don't get paid to play Brawl, they can't be pros. Pros players are players that get paid to play a game and get their income from an official corporation like MLG. Therefore, your statement of saying they're pros is false, Fatmonice. However, they were awesome players. Just not pro players as of yet.

 

[PKNintendo]

Exactly. Well put Tak!

 

[Takeshi245]

Exactly. Well put Tak!

Got that right! *High fives*

 

[volbound1700]

I think Mario is a very underrated character.

I have played him a lot. I think both the Mario Bros will get a higher tier once people start to learn the game more. Mario has a better recovery than Luigi IMO and that will help him.

Mario's Tornado is a good down recovery if you are up in the air and need to get down.

He has good aireals and his back kicks and flips can KO opponents.

His smash moves are very strong, especially the fire smash.

He has decent projectiles.

IMO he is one of the top characters. I am not buying the current tier system and I think overtime it is going to change again as people find out more about the game.

 

[Matador]

I think Mario is a very underrated character.

I have played him a lot. I think both the Mario Bros will get a higher tier once people start to learn the game more. Mario has a better recovery than Luigi IMO and that will help him.

Mario's Tornado is a good down recovery if you are up in the air and need to get down.

He has good aireals and his back kicks and flips can KO opponents.

His smash moves are very strong, especially the fire smash.

He has decent projectiles.

IMO he is one of the top characters. I am not buying the current tier system and I think overtime it is going to change again as people find out more about the game.

....lol...fire smash

 

[volbound1700]

....lol...fire smash

Fire punch, I don't know... it is the side smash.

 

[MBlaze]

Mario is middle for most balanced and is a G.

 

[Mario is the greatest brawler]

forget tiers, a players skill is what makes a 'low' character great and in my opinion bowser is 1 of the best characters in ssbb

 

[HeroMystic]

Fire punch, I don't know... it is the side smash.

In magzines I've read it's called the Fire Palm.