Mario Discussion: OP is a bad person

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I was speaking with Frogles yesterday and he told me to bait Kirby into doing something. Does anyone know a good way to do this?

You can short hop back or do a full hop into fireball possibly. Wait for the n-air or d-air and go for your aerials and stuff. When Kirby is at higher percents, you could potentially bait for d-airs by going right underneath Kirby also and going for usmash kills.

I mean, you have to mix up things or the person could catch on (I mean they should.)

 

[prove creathx]

Is it possible to do a running short hop fireball->uair?

 

[Kimimaru]

I doubt it, but I should try next time I play. If it is possible then the timing would be very strict.

 

[Sangoku]

You'd need 2 more frames in the air before being able to start an attack, so definitely no.

 

[prove creathx]

Ok, I didn't think so either as a standing sh fireball->uair has quite strict timing as is (at least for me). The 2 frames thing, does that mean you land with added lag? I remember reading that an empty landing animation has 4 frames of lag or 8 ff (Perhaps, I'm remembering incorrectly, however). Would you have 6 frames after throwing a fireball?

Also, are there any shield breaks for Mario?

 

[MrMarbles]

Also, are there any shield breaks for Mario?

http://youtu.be/knc-9LXOrrw
here are some shield break combos for mario

 

[The Star King]

dair nair usmash shieldbreak da bess

 

[prove creathx]

That's way easier, do you need all hits from dair + fresh nair and usmash?

 

[SheerMadness]

I never play Mario. Someone give me some tips on the timing for short hop fair to up air. I can't get the up air to come out most of the time.

Dair to up air is easy peasy.

 

[Timotheus]

fair to uair works best if you jump and then make the direction input. same with dair -> uair

 

[SheerMadness]

What? Sorry but I have no idea what you mean by that.

 

[Timotheus]

Jump and then press left/right + A for the fair to uair. Because you jump higher without a direction input

 

[SheerMadness]

That doesn't seem to help at all. Can anyone here even do it near 100% accuracy?

I rarely ever see even the best of the best Mario players (Isai, Red, etc) do it in actual match play. So I'm not sure it's really viable outside of training mode.

 

[Kimimaru]

That doesn't seem to help at all. Can anyone here even do it near 100% accuracy?

I rarely ever see even the best of the best Mario players (Isai, Red, etc) do it in actual match play. So I'm not sure it's really viable outside of training mode.

I just tried it a bunch right now and got 98% of them. It's a lot easier to pull off with a standing jump.

 

[SheerMadness]

Well doing it in place is kind of pointless. The only way to connect both aerials is moving forward. You don't necessarily have to be running, just moving forward with the fair.

Either way I can't seem to get the up air out consistently.

 

[Kimimaru]

Yeah, that's what I meant. You can do a standing jump then move forward while doing it. You just need to do the jump input while standing so you can gain the height that makes it easier to perform then move wherever you like or do F-air/D-air/B-air -> U-air if you want. I prefer this method.

For a running jump, you'll need to get the aerial out as soon as you're in the air. The window for error isn't too forgiving. Getting it down consistently will simply require more practice.

 

[The Star King]

I rarely ever see even the best of the best Mario players (Isai, Red, etc) do it in actual match play. So I'm not sure it's really viable outside of training mode.

Maybe because it's not that useful.

 

[SheerMadness]

Hence why I said "I'm not sure it's viable outside of training mode". Prestar atencion Noob King.

I still wanna be able to do it though. Kimmi how do you do it? Do you spam the A button or do you time it? I can't seem to get the up air out either way.

 

[prove creathx]

Isai using it on Superboomfan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vrC-1AHGrXg#t=443s

 

[Sangoku]

No, he used a standing one and not both hits into the same combo.

 

[SheerMadness]

Doesn't matter if he didn't connect both hits. It was effective. The fair baited boom to approach and the up air punished him for it.

Good example prove creathx.

But I still need someone to show me how to time it lol.

 

[Sangoku]

Oh I thought you wanted both to connect. Then I guess it's standard stuff.

 

[SheerMadness]

It's definitely not "standard" stuff lol. That would suggest that any ole Mario can effectively use it in matches. And we know that's not true.

Its extremely rare to see it used effectively. I only said it may not be viable due to how hard the timing seems to me.

But if people can easily time it they should be using it all the time. Fitting two aerials into one short hop is pretty insane. You can use it to bait like we see in the Isai vid. It would probably be one of Mario's better approaches too, since his vulnerability would be decreased by fitting in another aerial.

 

[Sangoku]

Maybe it's not standard then. I don't know, I feel I've seen it used often, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[mixa]

Running SH Fair Uair with Mario is harder than running SH double laser. (well, maybe not. but it's hard.)

I don't see what the hold-up can be, Sheer. It seems that it's the same skill required to SH double laser and to Dair Uair.
I can do it pretty much every time I get the standing SH right -- that's the hardest part lol.
I guess you can practice with Uair Uair first? and then go hard mode with Bair Uair.

And while you can't really do it when running, to run -> let of the stick -> SH Fair Uair while moving forward is almost like you never stopped. In fact, it seems as if moving forward makes it easier.

edit: I time it as well.

 

[Kimimaru]

Yeah, I do time it. The problem with it is if you hit them with the first few frames of the F-air they have frame advantage before you can get a U-air out, and if you hit with it later it'll be the weak hitbox. It may be a bit more useful on shield since there's less they can do, and it may function well as a bait.

 

[Sangoku]

If the first hit is frame perfect
Running fair to uair: 1 frame window
Standing fair to uair: 6 frame window

Running: 7 frame window
Standing dair to uair: 8 frame window

I know these results seem weird, but I checked twice and that's what I got. In fact, running -> short hop -> dair makes Mario land 5 frames later than running -> short hop -> fair. Thus the 5 frame difference in the above results. It's all ****ed up anyway.

Oh and Fox's running SHDL is frame perfect too and standing is a 6 frame window assuming the first is frame perfect.

Conclusion: a standing fair to uair should be as easy as Fox's standing SHDL. Practically it is not, because it's harder to short hop fair in place.

 

[SheerMadness]

I've got it now. Timo was right (didn't understand him at first). Unlike short hop dair/up air you don't want to fair asap after leaving the ground. You wanna fair right before the apex of your jump. You get the most vertical height that way and more time for the up air.

Seems like it would be really effective as a bait or close quarters approach. More marios need to start using it.

 

[mixa]

Conclusion: a standing fair to uair should be as easy as Fox's standing SHDL. Practically it is not, because it's harder to short hop fair in place.

not sure I get this. --- NVM I get it.
But I don't agree with that because 1. the timing is less strict between the two attacks than the two lasers, and 2. it's goes against my experience when playing Fox and sucking hard at SHDL.

 

[Sangoku]

Well, there's some confusion here. It's not running -> jump per se which has a lower jump. The lower jump is performed by inputting left (or right) on the 3rd frame of the jump, even if it's only for one frame. It's also at that moment that you can first input your aerial. So if you want your fair to be frame perfectly early, you'll need to input left/right at the same time you would need to input it to have the lower jump. I don't know if that's clear enough? Then it's true that you could delay by one frame the fair (ie non frame perfect) so you could have more room later (what Timo said in the beginning).

 

[Timotheus]

i main mario and running short hop dair to uair is way too hard (in the us/pal version) imo. i don't remember seeing this in any matches by isai or other good mario players aswell. i prefer running short hop to double uair or a "late" dair to utilt or to short hop uair instead. but a standing short hop to dair (then moving to left/right) to uair is a better choice practise short hop double uair. try moving in the air between the two uairs to learn his short hop height (same with pikachu)

 

[RockinRudy]

i main mario and running short hop dair to uair is way too hard (in the us/pal version) imo. i don't remember seeing this in any matches by isai or other good mario players aswell. i prefer running short hop to double uair or a "late" dair to utilt or to short hop uair instead. but a standing short hop to dair (then moving to left/right) to uair is a better choice practise short hop double uair. try moving in the air between the two uairs to learn his short hop height (same with pikachu)

Isai does D-air to U-air all the time on US...​

It's pretty easy if the player is good.​

 

[Sangoku]

Looks like you didn't understand the discussion. We're talking about the lower short hop.

 

[RickySSB]

RockingRudy is stupid, don't talk to him.

 

[Ceasar]

Not sure if anyone is aware of this, but there have been some times when Mario would literally go right through Kirby's rock with his up-b, with no invincibility.

A few months ago, Kero and I played a couple of Mario (me) vs. Kirby (Kero) friendly matches, and as I was at high damage and off the stage (left side of Dreamland), I recovered low with Mario, and Kero chose to edge-guard me with Kirby's rock from up high. What should have been an obvious death for me turned out to be exactly the opposite, because Mario's up-b apparently went through Kirby's rock as if he had invincibility frames, which is beyond me. I didn't sweet-spot the ledge, either; Mario landed right on the ground below the lower left platform after the up-b.

Has anyone experienced this while playing as Mario against Kirby? If so, any ideas on why this happens?

 

[SheerMadness]

Good question. Don't think I've ever seen Mario's up b demonstrate potential invincibility frames.

But I rarely ever play Mario.

 

[stylisland]

Not sure if anyone is aware of this, but there have been some times when Mario would literally go right through Kirby's rock with his up-b, with no invincibility.

A few months ago, Kero and I played a couple of Mario (me) vs. Kirby (Kero) friendly matches, and as I was at high damage and off the stage (left side of Dreamland), I recovered low with Mario, and Kero chose to edge-guard me with Kirby's rock from up high. What should have been an obvious death for me turned out to be exactly the opposite, because Mario's up-b apparently went through Kirby's rock as if he had invincibility frames, which is beyond me. I didn't sweet-spot the ledge, either; Mario landed right on the ground below the lower left platform after the up-b.

Has anyone experienced this while playing as Mario against Kirby? If so, any ideas on why this happens?

My guess is it probably clanked and no one had knockback from it.

 

[Cobrevolution]

aerial moves can't clank

i know you get invincibility in the beginning with luigi as the hitbox shows but i'm not sure if it's the same for mario

 

[Sangoku]

Since UpB's hitbox is disjointed, maybe only the hitbox got hit and not his hurtbox?

 

[Ceasar]

My guess is it probably clanked and no one had knockback from it.

Since UpB's hitbox is disjointed, maybe only the hitbox got hit and not his hurtbox?

These seem plausible. I would understand Kirby not having any knockback since, other than from grabs, his down-b naturally does not receive knockback from attacks, but Mario having no knockback is unusual.

It's also interesting to note that it only happened when I was at high damage, but I cannot be sure that that is true. The times I went through Kirby's rock were just accidents. Mario may also be capable of going through Kirby's rock at low damage, as well.