Mario Changes in 3.5

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I mean, I had that dual main up for mk/mario. Mk got one of the best gimp games so... But yea, mario was unchanged from like 2.5 till now. I've been playing him for so long w/o change it just feels weird to me. I've shifted to my other main and Falco at the moment. After a few fests I'll know if I still like mario.

 

[MrM]

Welp gg pm mario you are now booty

 

[Gallo69]

I think at worst he'll be a solid mid tier. Don't give up broskis.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I think at worst he'll be a solid mid tier. Don't give up broskis.

You gonna switch mains like guru(? He said he was gonna use wario at some tournament instead of mk so maybe he is going to change?)

 

[Gallo69]

You gonna switch mains like guru(? He said he was gonna use wario at some tournament instead of mk so maybe he is going to change?)

He really likes Wario in 3.5 so he will likely main him. I'll be sticking with Mario.
Guru's Wario is super entertaining to watch though, so I support his switch lol.

 

[MrM]

Can anyone upb walljump on fd cause it seems impossible

 

[Jonyc128]

I usually don't wall jump out of UpB anymore. I try my best to just use the regular wall jump instead

 

[Scatz]

You have to be touching the wall when initiating the UpB to even get the chance to wall jump off it. If you're not touching the wall, you will not be able to get it.

 

[MrM]

I think at worst he'll be a solid mid tier. Don't give up broskis.

Ok i see now mario doesnt need to upb walljump as much anymore

 

[Michael Ma]

His walljump literally only works on Warioware, Yoshi's story (melee), Yoshi's Island (Brawl, Green Hill zone, and Distant Planet

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I'm not putting him down. He hasn't changed too much for the worse, just been made a little less free in terms of BS. Outside of obnoxious Fireball shenanigans, he plays essentially exactly like he did before.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Well
He isn't using dair as much in combos and especially not to approach and he prob won't be using it to back to the stage
Not to many full hop fireball approaches ether
Or chain grabbing as much or as long
And that up b nerf means he really can't rely on it on any none pillar stage

Mario lost a lot of a options.

 

[Scatz]

Dair is still good, but the SDI makes it a little tougher to make setups consistent. U-air is the staple, but Dair needs a certain placement to maintain it's ability to create a 50/50

 

[MrM]

I just hate the new dthrow and upbwalljump rules so dumb other than that mario is fine

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I just hate the new dthrow and upbwalljump rules so dumb other than that mario is fine

What's wrong with his current dthrow? It doesn't seem to me like it is so different.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Check the new values of Dthrow

 

[Gallo69]

His walljump literally only works on Warioware, Yoshi's story (melee), Yoshi's Island (Brawl, Green Hill zone, and Distant Planet

You can also do it on FD and the bottom of FoD.

Dthrow nerf is especially annoying against floaty characters like M2 and Peach. He's still good though.

 

[Jonyc128]

I still think Mario's dthrow is good, I was playing Xaltis (top ZSS player in SFL), and I was able to get at least 4 regrabs before upsmashing him twice and hitting him with a fair. Also I think it's better to just upsmash after 1 or 2 regrabs since it can lead to so many different options

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I still think Mario's dthrow is good, I was playing Xaltis (top ZSS player in SFL), and I was able to get at least 4 regrabs before upsmashing him twice and hitting him with a fair. Also I think it's better to just upsmash after 1 or 2 regrabs since it can lead to so many different options

Thing is, you get so much more in the past. It sends people higher and ****. It makes follow ups a little easier on certain weights easier and other weights much harder.

Like it's ok but yea.

 

[Jonyc128]

Yea the followups were way easier but dthrow was super dumb in 3.02. I kinda like the new dthrow since I can't really on it as much anymore. The one plus i've found with the new dthrow is that it leads to fsmash quicker on spacies now

 

[Mach5Mike]

So after reading a few posts on this thread, it looks like I can safely say that it wasn't just my imagination that I've found the Up-B wall jump cancel to be much harder to pull off now.

 

[deadjames]

Mario's dthrow is better against fast-fallers, worse against floaties now. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing, there are more viable floaties than fast-fallers, but the fast-fallers generally tend to be higher tier.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Mario probably has better MUs against what would be the new top of this game (fastfallers, espec. Fox who came out RELATIVELY unscathed).

I think he's overall nerfed but it's still P:M Mario, he just has to work a bit more and can't camp with fireballs which were way too obnoxiously good for their own right. Movement is basically key atm.

 

[SpiderMad]

(Almost) all special moves in v3.5 now use the original Brawl Special Landing animation. Instead of a knee bend they're often more flavorful and exaggerated. For Mario's Up-B this means he does a little butt-bounce but overall the timing is the same, just animation difference playing tricks here.

Interesting, so the total frames themselves weren't changed but just the animation was? Would you mind a listing a couple other characters I should notice this for?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

If anything, the MU should be worse with fox, b/c fireballs/dair and now fox can reliably gimp us now. I mean, he can still be uthrow CG, and dthrow>fsmash(has flub) works, but yea. I used to say it was pretty even, but I'd give fox a point his way.

EDIT
Who are suppose to be to be top characters now anyway?
Fox, falco, wolf? Marth, shiek...? I don't know

 

[CyberZixx]

Are people really complaining about Mario's dthrow? It is still really good. Your character is still really good. Just no longer silly and obnoxious for many characters to face.

 

[deadjames]

If anything, the MU should be worse with fox, b/c fireballs/dair and now fox can reliably gimp us now. I mean, he can still be uthrow CG, and dthrow>fsmash(has flub) works, but yea. I used to say it was pretty even, but I'd give fox a point his way.

EDIT
Who are suppose to be to be top characters now anyway?
Fox, falco, wolf? Marth, shiek...? I don't know

Top 5 imo are Fox, Falco, MK, Sheik, and Wolf.

 

[j3ly]

too early to say, fox is up there, zelda is still up there, MK, wolf certainly not.. Mario must be top 6 or 7 though.

 

[deadjames]

Lol what? Zelda was mid tier before and she got worse. MK and Wolf were amazing before and they both got better. Mario is probably low mid now.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Zelda is not up there
James is prob right

 

[Jonyc128]

I don't think Mario's low mid. I think he's at least high mid

 

[Mr.Pickle]

So imo, all of mario's nerfs are pretty sensible except the one to fsmash. I can understand nerfing the move certainly, and giving the sweetspot more difficulty in performing, though it seems inconsistent. I can visually see connecting with the fire part of the animation, but getting the flub hit, when hitting that part of the animation, it's very confusing. Like, nerfing the size of the hitbox and favoring the flub hitbox when they overlap is fine, but when I hit with fire and I get a flub it doesn't make sense. Please shed light on this change pmdt.

 

[Michael Ma]

So imo, all of mario's nerfs are pretty sensible except the one to fsmash. I can understand nerfing the move certainly, and giving the sweetspot more difficulty in performing, though it seems inconsistent. I can visually see connecting with the fire part of the animation, but getting the flub hit, when hitting that part of the animation, it's very confusing. Like, nerfing the size of the hitbox and favoring the flub hitbox when they overlap is fine, but when I hit with fire and I get a flub it doesn't make sense. Please shed light on this change pmdt.

I totally agree. Also, for the up b wall jump, I do think this was a good change except for the part where u have to be touching the wall at the beginning on frame one. I think having to time his wall jump was already a pretty big nerf considering you can't delay it or use it earlier

 

[TTTTTsd]

I find it hard to believe that Mario will be anywhere outside the upper 25-30 section of the cast (that is the ABSOLUTE LOWEST I see him going. I think he's a mid-high if not fringe high tier character). I think he's still fairly solid. Could be wrong but I'm adapting just fine, this new D-Throw will take some getting used to BUT I feel like it's gonna open doors for other potential experimental combos and neat things barring floaties (ugh). I think we're in an ok spot ATM.

It's a lot better than sticking to my main man the Doc in Smash 4, I can say that much.

I think at worst he'll be a solid mid tier. Don't give up broskis.

This man knows. Trust this man.

Only change I feel like could be pseudo reverted is Mario's Dair. Don't give him the old disjoint but rather, add a smaller disjoint to it so it's still usable. The old one was WAY too stupid but I feel like it needs it. Dair already has SDI going against it.

Honestly though I feel like Mario is a character you could NEVER solo main even before, so I recommend picking up a character that covers all of his less than stellar MUs, of which there aren't an incredibly large amount of TBH.

 

[LandonRobinson]

Approaching feels a little more difficult in general, at least with, personally, my more aggro style of play. In regards to his dair, it's not entirely like Falco's, because it can certainly be beaten. It actually feels a little less effective than it used to be, but I don't know for sure until I look at the data.

Overall, he doesn't feel very different, which is fine -- still my favorite character to play.

 

[deadjames]

Falco's dair is definitely beatable, his own bair beats it as well as pretty much any sword move, Peach's uair, Fox's bair, Mario's usmash, Luigi's usmash, any of Bowser's armored moves, and Ganon's uair. There are probably others too, those are the only ones I know for sure.

 

[InfamousLuffy]

All that we have to do is ADAPT, i understand some of you broski's are irritated/un-happy about these nerfs but you want to know what? I motivate you to continue maining Mario. Btw, was Mario's Fair Nerfed?

 

[Michael Ma]

All that we have to do is ADAPT, i understand some of you broski's are irritated/un-happy about these nerfs but you want to know what? I motivate you to continue maining Mario. Btw, was Mario's Fair Nerfed?

Nope. None of Mario's amazing aerials have been nerfed except for his Down-Air

 

[NinKenDo64]

All that we have to do is ADAPT, i understand some of you broski's are irritated/un-happy about these nerfs but you want to know what? I motivate you to continue maining Mario.

This. What's awesome about this character is that he's so adaptable in his own right naturally. Awesome combo game still in tact and fireballs may not be as spam-able but they can control space well and have good damage. Not to big a fan of tipper F-smashes though. Hella inconsistent it hurts my soul.

 

[deadjames]

Fireballs suck at controlling space, pretty much the only things they're good for now is covering your landing when you're recovering high and fade away punishes (in which case there are much better options), they aren't even good to approach with anymore because the damage decrease made them easier to challenge and the endlag increase made them unsafe on hit and block.