Mario Boards: General Discussion

[BSP]

I went Mario this weekend at a tourney. I did bad in singles, but we managed to win low tier doubles. We finally got some matches recorded too.

http://www.twitch.tv/totes_magotes_live/b/463998135

Go to 4:15:42 and 4:46:04 for winner's and grand finals respectively. We ran a double mario team. I was a friendly fire maniac, I've got to work on that.

I also got some replays from other bracket matches and friendlies that i'll get up later.

 

[Coolwhip]

I armor grab wario's waft before. Took huge damage from it, but never moved a muscle. I'm a boss.

 

[T25XL]

DAAYYUUUMMMM. E'rrbody say it with me, DDDAAAAYYYYYUUUUUMMMMM

 

[BSP]

Not worth it though...waft always wins.

 

[T25XL]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dySU5nyoZfE

It's a video of me doing a little combo, on a peach. I suk against peach tho, lol
Btw, I use wiimote*nunchuk

 

[steep]

Okay… Good to be back on SWF. I will say that Wario is hard for Mario and if you aren't having a hard time fighting them then you aren't playing good Wario's… lol I've played a few of the best Wario's (BPOW and Krystedez, as well as others), and the MU is just difficult. Most of the hits Mario can land will be trades, and then the difference in kill power comes in to play and Mario just outright loses. You can't outmanuever him, his Fsmash and Waft kill early, his bite is ridiculously good at catching us even at near perfect spacing (Bair can beat it at perfect spacing I believe, but I'd use retreating Bair's to be safe), and his tire game all but neutralizes our other options. Fireballs shouldn't be working on him if he is smart because his air mobility lets him weave through them. And the super armor on Fsmash will beat our up b… And THEN you have RCO Lag to deal with. About your only chance against a good Wario is to gimp them… Which is really pretty tough but easier than getting a regular kill a lot of times. Heh I can't ever decide when fighting Warios whether to camp them or try to play more aggressive. I think camping is a better option though honestly, since my past experiences have shown me that playing aggressive will get you stomped on… It is all about aggressively camping and making sure not to over commit to anything imo. Hope this information is helpful… heh sorry to be so negative about this MU...

Also in that doubles low tiers! Good job guys on winning! One thing I'll say is that you took a lot of damage from trying to cape Link's Bombs (Bman especially). If you cape away from Link's bombs so that they hit your back during the cape, they will reflect and not blow up. If your cape actually hits the bomb it will blow up and hurt you. Just FYI.

 

[Coolwhip]

DAAYYUUUMMMM. E'rrbody say it with me, DDDAAAAYYYYYUUUUUMMMMM

I'm smelling sarcasm here.

 

[BSP]

Thanks Steep, I'll take any advice I can get.

You're not negative about the wario MU, it's just tough.

 

[T25XL]

naw. it's just funny to say. cause I feel black, sorry I'm a racist sometimes, it's funny to me. anyways good luck u guys at whobo. Mario all the way!

 

[T25XL]

I never knew a cpu mario could do something like that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7kU4u-Cpek

look from 2:42-2:44

 

[T25XL]

also, does anybody else think mario should hav a metagame update for 2013, a lot of things have been made by marios both offline and online I think should be mentioned and used for other marios to kno and use. any1?

 

[BSP]

Things like what?

Why not just wait until 2014? We're almost there.

 

[T25XL]

Cause...

And things likse mix-ups, new uses for certain moves, like Dair has a lot of new uses not mentioned. Dthrow possibilities, silent found some new cape glide things, I use platform canceling in my gameplay now and that is put to good use in matches. Lots of things BSP, lots of things

 

[Brawlman1000]

Also in that doubles low tiers! Good job guys on winning! One thing I'll say is that you took a lot of damage from trying to cape Link's Bombs (Bman especially). If you cape away from Link's bombs so that they hit your back during the cape, they will reflect and not blow up. If your cape actually hits the bomb it will blow up and hurt you. Just FYI.

Wow, I didn't know this. Thanks steep!

 

[Coolwhip]

It's wayyyyyy tooooooo late to even think about updating mario's metagame. Smash 4 is almost here as it is.
Mario's metagame has reach his peak back in 2010, and hasn't really progress since.

 

[mars16]

I say we lay the first hit, hold out for 8 Minutes

 

[T25XL]

It's wayyyyyy tooooooo late to even think about updating mario's metagame. Smash 4 is almost here as it is.
Mario's metagame has reach his peak back in 2010, and hasn't really progress since.

Idk man, do u know any of stuff that's been happening lately with mario. If steep says he can make mid-tier, there should be a chance of updating it, even if it's lower mid-tier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhS9d5Z0rys

Look at what my friend was able to do, pretty sick rite?
Do u kno any of the new stuff Mario has gotten, any recent videos of him and his gameplay? Anything? Cause you have to be looking around right. anyways, I believe there's a place mario hasn't reached yet in brawl. Although boss was the best, maybe there's some other potential out there unknown for mario. I'm gonna show what else mario can do in the ccv. Just wait...

 

[BSP]

Reverse Uair is pretty good. That's all I've got.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Idk man, do u know any of stuff that's been happening lately with mario. If steep says he can make mid-tier, there should be a chance of updating it, even if it's lower mid-tier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhS9d5Z0rys

Look at what my friend was able to do, pretty sick rite?
Do u kno any of the new stuff Mario has gotten, any recent videos of him and his gameplay? Anything? Cause you have to be looking around right. anyways, I believe there's a place mario hasn't reached yet in brawl. Although boss was the best, maybe there's some other potential out there unknown for mario. I'm gonna show what else mario can do in the ccv. Just wait...

Not possible. His damage is just too low and his attacks are just too mediocre. If you compare him to Diddy or Squirtle even, they are almost exactly the same characters, except Mario is much weaker than both of them.

 

[steep]

The only way for Mario to go up would be for the players who main him to become more skilled at the overall game. The problem is, as Mario mains get better, their character begins to hold them back and rather than work through it, it's easier just to switch characters.

 

[BSP]

Easier and more profitable, though the latter depends on the individual's goals.

 

[Coolwhip]

Thank god someone here at least understands me. T25XL is just not willing to accept that mario is a limited character.
Guys like boss & vato would not use mario in a tourney match against characters like mk, snake, marth, D3 etc.
They'll only use mario if it's a low-tier tourney or the overall skill of their opponent(s).

If boss was using mario against m2k's metaknight, well, let's just say it would end badly for boss.
I have tons of confidence in boss' luigi to take a tourney set against m2k if they ever play again.

 

[steep]

I dunno about that Cwhip… Boss lost to M2K's MK with Luigi pretty convincingly last time they played… And it's not about whether Mario is a limited character or not. Our ability to play smash well is what is without limit, if we work at it. THAT is where the difference is. I really believe that. That's why I made a thread about making Mario go up on the Tier List. If we as a community improve our fundamental gameplay of smash, then we will place better and ultimately see better results in the future. That is how we can make Mario go up. It really has very little to do with the character himself lol as much as it has to do with us, the people maining him.

 

[BSP]

Luigi is pretty terrible too, but his LOL KO power helps him win sometimes.

 

[T25XL]

So, that airplane food...

 

[T25XL]

also I support steep, lol

Oh yea. I love watching this video when it gets me down that I main mario and mario sucks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKIxu669Y_A

 

[Coolwhip]

People say mario sucks......until they play me.

 

[T25XL]

But you quit...

 

[HeroMystic]

Very, very late on this, but whatever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhS9d5Z0rys

Look at what my friend was able to do, pretty sick rite?

We've known about this for years, actually.

The Metagame thread won't be updated because there honestly isn't anything to update about Mario. Everything stated in 2010 is the same as it is now. As Steep said, improving your fundamentals is going to help more than searching for more gimmicks out of Mario.

 

[Coolwhip]

That's one of reasons why i stopped reading. I agree with steep though, brawl fundamentals
are key to winning matches and whatnot.

I've pretty much mastered the fundamentals of playing mario & brawl in general.

 

[T25XL]

That's one of reasons why i stopped reading. I agree with steep though, brawl fundamentals
are key to winning matches and whatnot.

I've pretty much mastered the fundamentals of playing mario & brawl in general.

Wait so your like m2k? Jk, but still. I don't reallly think anybody can master fundamentals to the fullest, but I guess I see your point. Even if you have, do you have any use for it? I mean you did tell us you quit, soooo...Also, there are some things I wish marios would do more, like get harder reads. For example: If your opponent knows your gonna walk away and Fsmash they will either Sidestep,shield, or dodge-roll backwards. So why not use that knowladge in gameplay? Or is that something else you guys already know. I feel so neglected here >_<

 

[steep]

The problem with Mario trying to get harder reads is that the risk-reward for those characters that you often see getting the hard reads is much better than Mario's risk-reward factor. Even if Mario gets a hard read chances are you won't kill them if they have good DI or heavy character weight unless the situation is just right. And because Mario's limbs are short he doesn't have the best ability to get in so you're going to be relying on hard reads just to do damage in some MUs, which is tough because each time you read a situation like that a good player will react and won't make the same mistakes multiple times. It's good to keep getting hard reads but basic reactions and option-limiting move choices is how you will really rack up damage. Save the hard reads for clutch wins haha or when you're really sure that they are going do a certain action that can be punished in a certain situation (based on habits you've noticed). That's my opinion anyway. I read a great article written by M2K on AllisBrawl that talks about covering options. You should check it out!

 

[Coolwhip]

*Goes to read M2K's article*

 

[steep]

Had a lot of fun at WHOBO 5 and I improved a TON. I played my *** off in a few sets, going toe-to-toe with Mekos game 1 of our pools match, playing Chibo on stream… As well as tons of other moments.

I learned a lot from playing the Texas smashers, mostly about picking safer options ALL the time. The metagame here seems to revolve mostly around never overcommitting… And waiting for your opponent to overcommit and then punishing them. It's the most challenging way I've ever seen to play this game and I think it is also the best strategy for playing Mario. I know it sounds basic but in looking at how most of us play, we all overcommit too much and get punished and lose games and sets for that error. I'll post some videos from this weekend when I get a chance.



P.S. M2K said my Mario was really good. Boom.

 

[- Theelitebrawler -]

Awesome steep! Really glad to hear that honestly. I'll def be looking forward to those sets, I'm starting to commit to smash more now so watching recent Mario sets will def help.

 

[Coolwhip]

Good shiz, steep.

 

[steep]

http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/471981431

Go to 2:44:00 ish for my games against Chibo in pools. I'll post it in the video thread too. Hopefully you all see an improvement.

 

[TMario]

Steep, I love you man, but these commentators are pissing me way off

 

[steep]

I know right? They were being such douche bags. I hated listening to them. It was mostly Inui… I love the part(s) where the other commentator would say something like "This Mario is going in." or "Wait… This match is actually really close?" but overall I definitely wish I'd had better commentators. What were your thoughts on the games?

 

[TMario]

Ok, a couple things. I'm a big noob, no where as good as your Mario. But that just means if I can see a pattern, sure as anything whoever you're fighting is gonna see a pattern.

More often than not, you pull out the cape stall. Don't get me wrong, great tactic against a good majority of the cast. Maybe against ROB too, but with ROB's range, it's not a great tactic. Either cape stall is a habit or muscle memory or something (which would explain why you pull it off so well) but there's a time and a place. In my opinion, not so much against ROB. I'm not saying, "Don't do it". Just not so much.

Your aggressiveness is freakin awesome man. You make Mario look quick. The way I see you drive that Mario, steep, you got the pedal to the floor!

But if you'll let me continue this racing analogy, what do you do when you come up to a turn? Or a couple turns? Tap the brakes a bit man. Slow down a bit. Or else you hit the wall. The way I was reading that match, you kept driving into the wall.

Honestly, I would've done the same. When you were playing your far game, air dancing with fireballs, awesome. But ROB would counter fireballs with spinny top thing and lazer beams. A couple of those would hit, sting you a bit, then you'd charge into his expecting metal arms. I hate to say it, but he baited you. We talk about baiting our opponents with fireballs, sucks, but I think that's what he did to you. If time runs, then time runs. I feel like that dude set the pace for the match.

Idk if that would have helped you win the game, but slowing down, changing the pace of the match on YOUR terms; that makes a difference to you as an overall player. When YOU want to be aggressive, awesome. BE AGGRESSIVE. PUT THAT PRESSURE ON!!
But when YOU realize that's not working, then YOU slow down. Maybe your opponent is only good at reacting and playing defense but sucks with offense. If his offense is predictable, it's a good thing you slowed down in order to read it.

But like I said, I'm a big noob. Maybe there's some mind games or frame data or something that I'm not seeing.


TL;DR
Slow your roll, brother.