Mario Boards: General Discussion

[DtJ XeroXen]

...Mario ****ing rocks against Olimar.

Seriously. >_>

 

[Reducas]

loll oli is just another day at the office. luigi can easly defeat him.with Mario bros i gimp olimar easly and btw i hate that fram sh*t.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Olimar is a fun MU imo. One Olimar i play a lot tends to be a very aggressive camper. He camps till i get close then immediatl goes agro. One of his favorite things to do was usmash whenever i tried to get above him. Note that this is before i properly knew the Oli MU. Then i discovered that nair>usmash and made EVERYTHING easier.

Btw, expect to see me here more often. Mario is my first and best main after all =3

 

[Matador]

Boss 3-stocked Logic semi-recently with Mario in tourney.

I dunno how much weight that holds tho since they play each other all the time.



.....I was there....It was awesome.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hey I'm not surprised Boss would come out with a 3 stock in that matchup. It's very momentum oriented, and I consider it one of Mario's most fun matchups at the moment. It's a matchup where playing to Mario's strengths really rewards you. Not easy for Mario, but at the same time he can really get off very quickly in this matchup when he gets in control.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

I agree with A2Z

Really Olimar has little options if the Mario has momentum. Getting him offstage is a simple task. Gimping him is even easier.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbBeTCnbo3s&feature=search

Dat momentum.

 

[Matador]

So I've been away awhile.

Mario mains got juice again?

Or is morale still lulzy?

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Wow, good shiz. Loved that 2nd stock kill the most personally.

 

[SKidd]

Mario is now top tier, Matador

where have you been? lol

 

[Mario_ 101]

The reason low tier characters don't win tournaments frequently is because tiers are based on tournament results. Do I need to explain what that means? Never mind the fact that for each Mario, or even ZSS, there's going to be several MKs, Snakes, etc. Even if there was no balance disparity, the result should be the same given the number of entrants for each character.

NO WAAAAAAAI NEW INFORMATION!!!!!!11111 /sarcasm. Of course I know that I'm not stupid.

Also in your second post at me you to me come up as one of those, "OMG IM SO AWESOMEZ I CAN BEAT ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1" type of people, which is why i responded in such a manner.

However, I'm more than willing to prove my point if you wanna play. Honestly, if you can't even play as the characters you actually want to play as, then why bother in the first place?

Lol I don't play brawl anymore. In fact I can't, since my wii doesn't read discs anymore, which lead me to quit videogames in general. Plus metaknight IS fun to use, he makes n00bs whine.
:[)>

so no u. go back to your bridge, troll.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Wow, good shiz. Loved that 2nd stock kill the most personally.

My favorite is the first, because even though I **** up the recovery (big time, I don't even know how that happened) I STILL GET THE KILL WITH THE BACK HITBOX OF UP-B!!!

I guess I just love killing with that move though.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Lol good point. You don't get many kills with SJP so it is special when you do =3

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I think I'm up to about 15 at tournament. Only a few of those were actual tournament (or MM) games, though. I go for the SJP kill as much as I possibly can.

 

[mars16]

iTis Halarious

I aso fin goin of te edge with a Bair hiting enemy making tim pounce ofsthe wall of the stage in a obtuse angle funny as well

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Xero, I know you once said that killing with upb is the way to become a man... but I think YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

Spoiler

It WAS you that said it, right?

 

[Inferno3044]

Au contraire, he does beat Olimar's camping.

O.O

Fireballs and Cape are too good in this matchup.

Red pikmin beat fireball camping. Cape isn't fast enough to stop pikmin throw and even if you reflect them he can whistle them off.

Mario has more versatility with fireballs and if he's given the opportunity to space those for free, he gets in stupid easy on Olimar with semi-lingering aerials that outright WIN against most of Olimar's melee attacks and are usually safe on block in this matchup (olimar's shieldgrab is not very good in this matchup due to its low speed). The threat of fireball camping also puts a limit on Olimar's ability to pivot grab in this matchup. One Mario gets in, he has fast tilts, Jabs, and better mobility to pressure Olimar to death. Scoring a kill in this matchup is very easy once you put Olimar on the defensive, and will happen either through landing a Smash when he crumbles under pressure, Jab Cancel D-smash, or a Cape gimp which is VERY easy to land.

Run away pivot grab stops this. My bro plays Olimar and even though he's not that good I constantly get punished for just spacing aerials. I either get pivot grabbed or he runs under me and does Usmash between the lag of my bair.

Cape also is incredibly good in this matchup, able to turn around F-smash and Pikmin Toss while at the same time removing latched Pikmin (D-air also removes latched Pikmin very easily). If Olimar tries to camp this matchup, he's asking for Mario to space his stuff for free, which in turn gets him ***** due to most of his attacks actually losing in head to head clashes with Mario's and due to his inability to easily punish Mario out of shield. For Mario, being allowed to space his attacks with impunity is very favorable in this matchup.

Caping his Fsmash is completely unreliable. He can still latch pikmin onto you because pikmin throw is faster and possibly hit you with a purple to be able to latch more on. Anything else I think I previously said.

The matchup however becomes harder when Olimar actually goes aggressive. The whole point of the matchup for him is to not let Mario space for free by getting in his face before he has the chance to properly space. The reason why I think the matchup is slight advantage Olimar is because Olimar kills earlier than Mario and the range on his attacks gives him an advantage in punishing certain mistakes when Mario is put on the defensive. Case in point: Xero the ITG Penguin from Las Vegas beat my Mario at EVO 2010 not through camping, but through aggressive tactics, approaching and closing distance with his running grab, aerials, and Smashes. Other Olimars who play the matchup by camping me rather than taking intelligent risks usually get 2stocked by me.

What Olimars do you 2stock? Everything you've said about Mario doing this stuff on Olimar is punishable by run away pivot grab.

It's entirely winnable for Mario though and totally based on momentum for the most part when the matchup is played correctly. Rich Brown for the record recently stated he thinks Mario beats Olimar. I disagree, but it's definitely a good matchup for him overall.

It's definitely not Mario's advantage. I'm actually wondering what Mario's he plays.

On the whole here, the fact that you are spacing aerials on him (which is approaching) means that you are getting outcamped. I'm waiting for you to say that Mario can outcamp Fox and goes even or better against him.

 

[hippiedude92]

So I've been away awhile.

Mario mains got juice again?

Or is morale still lulzy?

saw ur vid with u vs omni

that hyberbolic time chamber thinggy

u mad rusty yo

 

[Matador]

Partial rust, but mostly just me sucking.

I still need to learn match-ups fully too...just still alot for me to learn overall Hippy mane T_T

Edit: He's talmbout this vid if any of u are wondering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zuv22Qo_KbE

 

[A2ZOMG]

Inferno, watch that video Xero posted. It's actually a pretty good example of the matchup when Mario does it right and happens to get momentum. In fact watch the entire set.

Red pikmin beat fireball camping. Cape isn't fast enough to stop pikmin throw and even if you reflect them he can whistle them off.

You're doing it wrong if you're letting him latch Red Pikmin for free. You can watch his Pikmin lineup and get ready to either Cape or D-air and close ground if he tries to do that.

Run away pivot grab stops this. My bro plays Olimar and even though he's not that good I constantly get punished for just spacing aerials. I either get pivot grabbed or he runs under me and does Usmash between the lag of my bair.

Again you're not doing it right. If he's pivot grabbing you you're getting baited hard, or he's actually playing the matchup right and using aggresive tactics to limit your spacing, WHICH lets you get baited when you're pressured into forced mistakes.

With fireballs and Cape you can easily avoid most of that stuff that he does. D-air if Pikmin latch, and you can make him pay for it dearly when you Cape Pikmin back and they either latch or knock him back.

Caping his Fsmash is completely unreliable. He can still latch pikmin onto you because pikmin throw is faster and possibly hit you with a purple to be able to latch more on. Anything else I think I previously said.

lol Inferno, stop playing really unsafe. Camp better, and the opportunity to close distance with impunity will come up. As I recall, your mentor is one of the most aggressive Mario users in the community, and he personally differs from me in viewpoint in that he considers Mario fundamentally aggressive, while I consider Mario fundamentally defensive. I dunno how you play, but it sounds like you get really impatient and approach recklessly when Olimar is camping you since you actually are trying to imply that Olimar's pivot grab shuts down Mario. That's not even close to the truth. The best use for Olimar's pivot grab in this matchup is controlling you when he's on the aggressive actually. Think the way Mario's D-throw trap works and how a pivot grab can cover options when your opponent airdodges. That's basically what Olimar has for him in this matchup when he pivot grabs. It's not actually his most optimal option for stopping your approach, since Mario never needs to get baited that way due to access to a reliable projectile.

What Olimars do you 2stock? Everything you've said about Mario doing this stuff on Olimar is punishable by run away pivot grab.

Olimar can't actually do this safely if you put a fireball out. And actually it's not that simple for him to punish Mario's spacing game with run away Pivot grab in general when you consider Mario's tools to dance around a lot of ground games.

Because of this, the Olimars that try to camp me with Pikmin Toss and pivot grab are the ones that get 2stocked by me. Serious! Olimar has to actually be the aggressor in this matchup since it's pointless for him to let Mario space his stuff for free when Mario has the tools to avoid his camping easily and camp back. When I play the matchup, I'm exceedingly patient and approach after either one of three things:
1. A properly spaced fireball is out
2. Olimar whiffs
3. Olimar gets Pikmin caped back in his face.

And like vs Donkey Kong, once Mario gets in, he's basically gonna stay there until he socks Olimar a good one. The flip side of the matchup is that he actually doesn't have as many good tools for stopping Olimar from approaching.

It's definitely not Mario's advantage. I'm actually wondering what Mario's he plays.

Vato Break for one, and he's probably played TC1 as well. He's actually beaten me really badly years ago, although it was years ago, and his Olimar is actually fairly aggressive as I recall. And I don't consider the matchup Mario's advantage either. I just think that if you're going up against an Olimar who plays the matchup the same way as he would against other characters who he defeats through camping, you're going to win if you do your job right.

On the whole here, the fact that you are spacing aerials on him (which is approaching) means that you are getting outcamped. I'm waiting for you to say that Mario can outcamp Fox and goes even or better against him.

lol Inferno, play safer. Mario gets in for free when his camping works, and it works REALLY ****ING WELL against Olimar especially if Olimar tries too hard to outcamp Mario. If Olimar is camping me, I never need to approach him unless I think the situation is safe. That's basically the Wario principle as I recall. Anyhow you misunderstand the way spacing works in this matchup. If Olimar camps you, you get to space in pretty much any d*mn way you please, including the way that can't be punished. And then I'll go back to how when Mario gets in, Olimar is basically screwed.

All this talk about how baiting works is really making me start thinking that Mario actually does beat Lucario slightly, a character who hinges on baits into walls that doesn't have very good close range options. Just based on the principle that Lucario can't really land a move that will kill you if you never do anything unnecessary, while you have more options to score cheap hits through proper option limiters as well as through better closeup options. And I realize, KirinBlaze wasn't kidding when he said Lucarios all basically do the same thing.

 

[Kanzaki]

A2Z, you're sooo confident in the match up. Actually go out to a tourney or something, and money match Brian H.

All I'm sayin :]

 

[A2ZOMG]

I never said I was actually confident in the matchup. I consider it out of Mario's favor 55/45.

I just believe nobody here has any business losing to Olimars that camp. And at any rate I was at EVO 2010, played Xero the ITG Penguin who beat me pretty solidly at the matchup since he didn't make the mistake of trying to excessively camp me. I don't see why I should win this matchup consistently if Olimar plays it right. I just consider it a very fun matchup in general due to how it requires Olimar play differently than he would in other matchups.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

If anything, the Mario Oli MU would be at least 50/50 or 55/45 Olimar. Don't forget, his utilt, nair, and uair all have some good priority and beat us out on a few of our moves.

I agree that fireball camping is not the most effective strategy. It isn't exactly that hard to avoid fireballs and throw pikmin at the same time. Having latched pikmin put Oli at the advantage because either you keep them on and take damage or you have to take the time to get them off and Oli can easily punish you for doing so. He can also hit you with Pikmin chain if you are going aerial a lot, but don't expect it a lot, but still be wary of it.

That is just my opinion though. i don't feel like doing an entire write-up

 

[UberMario]

You don't have to spend that much time taking them off, just use the cape and they come off INSTANTLY, and if you're a good ways away you won't be hit by the purple ones, which are the only ones that have knockback when thrown.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

regardless of how fast you can remove pikmin it still leaves you open. The mere fact that you are taking time to remove them gives Olimar the advantage.

 

[SKidd]

hay guyz I just got back from my first tourney
3rd in my pool
Got a really good player (Asa) 1st round
Lost to a ROB named IHT second, only because I don't know my matchup. gimped me on my first stock
both matches, ****.

How do I fight ROB? lol

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Oh boy, now ROB is a fun MU...considering how it is so hard trying to gimp him AND he is a heavy character

 

[Famous]

regardless of how fast you can remove pikmin it still leaves you open. The mere fact that you are taking time to remove them gives Olimar the advantage.

Getting stuck by pikmin doesn't necessarily means your going to be open...A good player wouldn't concentrate on just removing the pikmin, he would remove the pikmin while approaching olimar as well...

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Very true. But most people i know immediatly try to get pikmin off because they sort of "panic" at the extra damage they are receiving. I learned from that mistake long ago =3

 

[JuxtaposeX]

I only panic when the white pikmin is on me cuz it does so much

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Ewwww, white pikmin, utterly useless to olimar being so weak except when they latch. Dealing damage twice as fast meaning double the damage can be really scary. Hey, you guys know how thrown pikmin can latch onto the blocks on Green Greens and still be active and can be used as a trap of sorts? Has anyone ever seen that done in an actual tournament? Becuase from what i saw, if you do that with the full amount of white pikmin you get like 60% damage in 5 secs >.>

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Green Greens isn't legal in tournaments... so no.

 

[Frost94]

wuzzup mario mains im frost94 (call me frosty) da new mario main on da block Period

 

[Suspect]

my name has been stolen

 

[UberMario]

Green Greens isn't legal in tournaments... so no.

Read this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283142

Green Greens, Distant Planet, Port Town Aero Dive, and Yoshi's Island (Melee) are now considered acceptable counterpicks.

 

[BSP]

BBR thinks so, but most people don't. I doubt you're going to see tournaments with port town and YI melee legal. Not too sure about the other three.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I know I would legalize them. They're my new favorite stages ever.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

I don't really know about Aero of YI (Melee) either but i do enjoy Green Greens some but i actually really like Distant Planet. The Bulborb makes for a great camping spot for some characters like Samus...you know, as long as you don't get eaten =3

 

[UberMario]

I love that they've been legalized to be honest, besides, Yoshi's Island has few issues and actually would probably be a good CP for Mario because he can abuse the wall jumps and techs to avoid being spiked in the middle (which almost never happens, but even less so with wall jumps). Port Town Aero Dive will most likely end up banned from doubles (if not already), but in singles the hazards are extremely easy to avoid. The only time you can't see the cars coming you can hear them in time to jump out of the way in advance. Green Greens and Distant Planet shouldn't have been banned in the first place.

Now if only people would realize that Hanenbow is not a cruddy stage. >_>

 

[Kanzaki]

Would anybody that's decently good would wanna do some 2v2 wifi with me today? :]