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Mario 3.0 Matchup thread

Mr.Random

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I'll start off.
Mario vs. Jigglypuff is definitely in Mario's favor. Mario can pressure Jiggz shield easily because Mario's weight and floatiness make him hard to combo off a grab. Mario can also get kills easier since d throw fair works at kill %s. Not sure if Mario can edgeguard Puff though....
 

Hinichii.ez.™

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Eh
Mario received one small change. Something about this fsmash being slightly reduced?
Mario vs 3.0 characters
^
Lol
 

Xcite

Smash Apprentice
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How do you all feel about the Mario vs. Marth matchup?
 

Mr.Random

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How do you all feel about the Mario vs. Marth matchup?
In this game it's in Mario's favor I feel. Mario projectiles come out fast. Marth can't kill Mario because Mario is a close range character. Mario has better kill combo's than Marth. And edgeguarding Marth is simple. Although Marth can out space Mario and his grab range makes it a little hard to pressure his shield. If your DI isn't good you can die early to a tipper.
 

Xcite

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In this game it's in Mario's favor I feel. Mario projectiles come out fast. Marth can't kill Mario because Mario is a close range character. Mario has better kill combo's than Marth. And edgeguarding Marth is simple. Although Marth can out space Mario and his grab range makes it a little hard to pressure his shield. If your DI isn't good you can die early to a tipper.
I wouldn't say it's completely in Mario's favor. Fireballs wouldn't be much help in this match (other than for edge guarding) because Marth's fair easily eats fireball (there is no clank). Your statement about Mario being a close range fighter doesn't play out to his favor in this matchup. With Marth's disjointed hitboxes, he can out range almost every one of Mario's moves. Proper spacing and fireball dodging can exploit Mario's only major weakness, range. The most useful tool I've found in this match up is Dair as it has decent range with high priority hitboxes. Although it is a bit of a risk, as Marth can throw out deadly fsmashes.
 

Mr.Random

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I wouldn't say it's completely in Mario's favor. Fireballs wouldn't be much help in this match (other than for edge guarding) because Marth's fair easily eats fireball (there is no clank). Your statement about Mario being a close range fighter doesn't play out to his favor in this matchup. With Marth's disjointed hitboxes, he can out range almost every one of Mario's moves. Proper spacing and fireball dodging can exploit Mario's only major weakness, range. The most useful tool I've found in this match up is Dair as it has decent range with high priority hitboxes. Although it is a bit of a risk, as Marth can throw out deadly fsmashes.
If Marth is in the air against Mario than he's dumb. That's the whole point of fireballs. It's to force Marth to do something. Marth doesn't have a projectile so Mario doesn't have to approach. If Marth is in the air up tilts and up smashes will juggle him. The reason why it was so bad in Melee was because Mario's projectile wasn't that great (due to him not being ale to have multiple out and can't shoot them as fast), he had trouble killing, and this made his range that much worse. Also with a couple of Mario's other improvements like a better dash dance and a good and fast poking move d tilt. Also if Marth gets hit by a fireball that's a chance for a grab and Mario gets insane combos off Marth from a grab. I always look at my opponent so if I know he's planning to roll away from my fireball or planning to dodge it I'm forcing him to commit to something and I'm going to expoit that.
 

Deep2

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Mario vs. Space Animals? I can't exactly say that he's good against them as I've only faced CPUs.

However, a good Mario counter is a G&W. I feel like his fireballs are what helps Mario combo into most things and removing that option with his down B is really good.
 

Mr.Random

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Mario vs. Space Animals? I can't exactly say that he's good against them as I've only faced CPUs.

However, a good Mario counter is a G&W. I feel like his fireballs are what helps Mario combo into most things and removing that option with his down B is really good.
I practiced against real players a lot to test Mario's limits without fireballs and he really isn't any different. I've fought GnW plenty of times and it's slighty in Mario's favor. If I know he's going to down b I'll punish. Mario also combo's GnW really hard and kills him like at 90% on most stages. Mario has plently of other approach options. Cape, Bair, Dair, shield, spaced d tlits, etc. Mario isn't as helpless without fireballs as people make him out to be.
 

Krystedez

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I think Mario has a lot of even match ups, similar to the same feeling I had with Pit in Brawl (except Mario actually has swag).

I'm still in the works of getting better with both Mario and my mains (I used to main Doc in Melee) so I'll just keep coming back with relevant information if it suffices the discussion. There's a LOT to flesh out now about the meta for mario, he's so versatile.

Were your guys's expectations of the matchups that are important to you get met when Mario was made for P:M? Was 3.0 enough to make him able to work around specific hard matchups that used to be a problem in melee? I'm not melee expert, but from what I understand Shiek and Peach were incredibly difficult ones.
 

foxygrandpa

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In my honest opinion, I think mario is probably the best project m designed character. He's arguably on par with the melee supers and is extremely difficult to fight against. He has a strong neutral game because of the fireballs, insanely strong grab game, easy gimps with the cape, and a crazy recovery. Im not saying he's overpowered, but he's definitely designed well enough to fight anyone in this game without any terribly weak matchups.
 

Mr.Random

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In my honest opinion, I think mario is probably the best project m designed character. He's arguably on par with the melee supers and is extremely difficult to fight against. He has a strong neutral game because of the fireballs, insanely strong grab game, easy gimps with the cape, and a crazy recovery. Im not saying he's overpowered, but he's definitely designed well enough to fight anyone in this game without any terribly weak matchups.
I agree. I feel he is a role model of how all characters should be. Balanced and fun.

I think Mario has a lot of even match ups, similar to the same feeling I had with Pit in Brawl (except Mario actually has swag).

I'm still in the works of getting better with both Mario and my mains (I used to main Doc in Melee) so I'll just keep coming back with relevant information if it suffices the discussion. There's a LOT to flesh out now about the meta for mario, he's so versatile.

Were your guys's expectations of the matchups that are important to you get met when Mario was made for P:M? Was 3.0 enough to make him able to work around specific hard matchups that used to be a problem in melee? I'm not melee expert, but from what I understand Shiek and Peach were incredibly difficult ones.
Double post sorry. I think he needs a better grab range. That the last buff I want really. His grab range is just abysmal and I feel that sometimes I need to perfect shield to get a grab
 
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foxygrandpa

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I agree. I feel he is a role model of how all characters should be. Balanced and fun.



Double post sorry. I think he needs a better grab range. That the last buff I want really. His grab range is just abysmal and I feel that sometimes I need to perfect shield to get a grab
I think he's fine without it to be honest. It would be a luxury that he wouldnt need, especially might be kind of unfair with the crazy grab combos he currently has.
 

Mr.Random

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I think he's fine without it to be honest. It would be a luxury that he wouldnt need, especially might be kind of unfair with the crazy grab combos he currently has.
True. I still feel he's missing something though. I can't put my finger on it though. What do you think Mario's easiest MU is?
 

foxygrandpa

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True. I still feel he's missing something though. I can't put my finger on it though. What do you think Mario's easiest MU is?
I dont think he has a particular easy matchup. Im actually a fox main, and I feel like although his tech skill/combos are different, he is similar to fox in matchup sense. No easy or bad matchups, you just have to adapt to the other character in order to win.
As I said, Im not actually a mario main, or even a secondary, I just play with him every once in a while, so I dont have a really large amount of matchup experience against everyone in the cast. If it helps though, I've had a lot of experience with mario against cfalcon. His recovery is easily gimped with the cape, he gets chained with up air since he's heavyweight, grabs destroy him since he's both fast falling and heavy. Bowser's large hurtboxes make him easy to combo. In some matchups against lightweights, dtilt into fair works really well too.
Hope this helps.
 

d-man2292

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what do you guys think of a squirtile mario match up, i was at a tourney this last weekend and i got knocked out of the brackets to a squirtile user. his mobility was insane because he could literally go to the other side of the stage in like no time, it was hard to get a hit off of him, also i'm not very good with floaters (kirby, jigglypuff, peach) because they can manipulate the air so nasty its hard for me to even touch them. any pointers???
 

Mr.Random

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what do you guys think of a squirtile mario match up, i was at a tourney this last weekend and i got knocked out of the brackets to a squirtile user. his mobility was insane because he could literally go to the other side of the stage in like no time, it was hard to get a hit off of him, also i'm not very good with floaters (kirby, jigglypuff, peach) because they can manipulate the air so nasty its hard for me to even touch them. any pointers???
Easy matchup in my opinion. You can grab him out of a lot of stuff. He dies to your main finishers at 90%. The only problem I have is edgeguarding him. It's hard to cape that disjointed up b.
 

d-man2292

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Easy matchup in my opinion. You can grab him out of a lot of stuff. He dies to your main finishers at 90%. The only problem I have is edgeguarding him. It's hard to cape that disjointed up b.
dude thanks! i'll definitely approach that match up differently next time, and yes his up b is so wack i'm getting salty just thinking about it xD
 

Mr.Random

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dude thanks! i'll definitely approach that match up differently next time, and yes his up b is so wack i'm getting salty just thinking about it xD
Also squirtle likes to cross up your shield so if you predict correctly you can back air him out of shield. Let him approach you in this MU. You have a better projectile so you can bait him to side b through your fireball and grab him.
 

Mr.Random

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Have you played a Marth your level or better than you? Please post one to back your statement.
Of course. I'm not saying that Mario dominates Marth. This MU is very similar to Fox vs. Marth. The thing Mario has to worry about is range and being above Marth. The thing is that Marth can't FORCE Mario to do anything. Mario doesn't have to approach Marth. Mario can FORCE Marth to do something with fireballs. If Marth does nothing then he takes 8% which racks up quickly and he also gets stunned which can lead to a grab, jab, kill move, etc. So, knowing this I can manipulate Marth to do what I want. All Marth can do is predict when you are going to fireball and counter accordingly. Yes I know that Marth can use his moves to go through fireballs but that's the thing, I'm forcing him to swat the fireballs away which put him in a awkward position. His ground moves clank with fireballs which causes lag. Only Marth's aerials can go directly through Mario's fireballs but that put him in the air which means I can get under him and up tilt and up smash all day. Marth has to predict where you are going to fireball and when you are going to fireball which creates a lot of 50:50 situations. Did I mention Mario has better combos than Marth? Marth can combo back but the only thing that'll kill Mario early is a down air off stage. Mario has better gimping tools like triple bair, cape, fireball, and b throw. Marth has down tilt and f smash as his most reliable option but Mario can avoid those by sweetspoting and if Marth tries to edgehog Mario can just wall jump last second and air dodge on stage. There is plenty more to discuss but I'm sleepy.
 
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ShadowmanX5

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On the subject of Marth, I'm having real trouble beating my brother in this match up. It's those damn chain grabs, one after another F-throwF-ThrowF-Throw over and over on low percent until I reach the edge then F-Smash and I have no idea how to deal with it other than to avoid getting grabbed. I can avoid it sometimes but I just have no idea what to do about it, trying DI sometimes gets me out but I dunno if it's to do with the DI or if he just messes up. Any advice on this?
 

uCooL

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On the subject of Marth, I'm having real trouble beating my brother in this match up. It's those damn chain grabs, one after another F-throwF-ThrowF-Throw over and over on low percent until I reach the edge then F-Smash and I have no idea how to deal with it other than to avoid getting grabbed. I can avoid it sometimes but I just have no idea what to do about it, trying DI sometimes gets me out but I dunno if it's to do with the DI or if he just messes up. Any advice on this?
Are you changing up your DI as hes throwing you over and over?
 

MrM

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Why do you need a video when I gave you a very complex breakdown of the MU? I play online tournaments so I can't really record but the explanation above was a perfectly viable.
where do u play these tourney think i want in
 

Blondie.

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Of course. I'm not saying that Mario dominates Marth. This MU is very similar to Fox vs. Marth. The thing Mario has to worry about is range and being above Marth. The thing is that Marth can't FORCE Mario to do anything. Mario doesn't have to approach Marth. Mario can FORCE Marth to do something with fireballs. If Marth does nothing then he takes 8% which racks up quickly and he also gets stunned which can lead to a grab, jab, kill move, etc. So, knowing this I can manipulate Marth to do what I want. All Marth can do is predict when you are going to fireball and counter accordingly. Yes I know that Marth can use his moves to go through fireballs but that's the thing, I'm forcing him to swat the fireballs away which put him in a awkward position. His ground moves clank with fireballs which causes lag. Only Marth's aerials can go directly through Mario's fireballs but that put him in the air which means I can get under him and up tilt and up smash all day. Marth has to predict where you are going to fireball and when you are going to fireball which creates a lot of 50:50 situations. Did I mention Mario has better combos than Marth? Marth can combo back but the only thing that'll kill Mario early is a down air off stage. Mario has better gimping tools like triple bair, cape, fireball, and b throw. Marth has down tilt and f smash as his most reliable option but Mario can avoid those by sweetspoting and if Marth tries to edgehog Mario can just wall jump last second and air dodge on stage. There is plenty more to discuss but I'm sleepy.
I agree with all of this. Very solid post. I too agree that Mario beats Marth, mainly due to his fireballs, superior mobility, and better combos.

People think "Oh Mario has stubby arms so he has poor range!" This is really a sort of fallacy that a lot of lower level players use. Sure Mario has stubby arms, but when he is flying across the stage with a high priority sex kick in the form of his nair, and has such good mobility with his wave dashes, his stubby arms don't really come into play. Also, his fair has a surprisingly large range, and fsmash out ranges just about any of Marth's moves, except maybe his own fsmash.

The hardest thing I've noticed about the Mario vs Marth match up is when Marth gets Mario in the air, he can juggle him really well. It's really hard to get back down from being juggled and you often eat up to 50% or die from that. I play Nike's Marth quite a bit, and he juggles and edge guards really well, and it sometimes feels like there's nothing Mario can do in that situation. I often try to mix up my timing with Side B's and Down B's a lot trying to escape the juggles. Any tips on this part of the match up?
 

xXDarkRisingXx

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What do you guys feel about ike vs mario? Ike did really well at apex. So i though it would be interesting to talk about. Also On fox and pit vs mario.
 

deadjames

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Ike is kinda tough, he has so much range, but his moves are laggy so you kind of have to play a bait and punish game against him, also never do any laggy moves yourself, or he'll be in your face to punish with a QD or QD mixup option. Fox is terrible shine invalidates your recovery unless you go high, he can kill you with a usmash at upwards of 70% depending on the stage and he has tons of ways to combo into it, make sure to DI behind him and jump away as soon you can if he uthrows to avoid the uair, fortunately your projectile is better than his use that to your advantage against campy Foxes. Stage CPs are really important in this MU, make sure to take him to a stage with high ceilings and where platforms can't obstruct your CGs because Mario can 0-death Fox off a grab, my personal favorite for this MU is Skyworld. Pit seems pretty even, but I've only fought a couple Pits and only one of them was good.
 

Dr Drew the Dragon

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I'm pretty convinced Mewtwo beats Mario.

He's got the range, uair and bair and utilt all beat mario's aerials and stuff his approaches. He can go low enough to edgeguard Mario easily even on walled stages. He can kill you off the top with upthrow at around 100-120, negating your recovery altogether. He can teleport through fireballs and hit you before he even lands. He's just about impossible to edgeguard, even if you manage to cape his up b he can just up b again (as can G&W btw, annoying little glitch). He's floaty enough to get out of dthrow fair at about 100 and heavy enough that it won't kill on most stages until 90ish, giving you a very small window to use that kill setup.

He's easy enough to combo if you can ever catch him, but I don't think that makes up for all the stuff I just listed above.
 

deadjames

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I don't think so, Mewtwo is pretty slow, there's not much he can do against a competent Mario that knows how to rush his opponent down.
 

xXDarkRisingXx

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If marios mu vs marth is bad, does that mean vs roy is just as bad or is he easier to handle then marth? Ps... i hate marth. Lol
 
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deadjames

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Roy is similar to Marth, but easier imo. Roy's grab game isn't as good and it's easier for Mario to escape his kill setups since his sweet-spots are on the inside of his blade rather than the tip.
 

xXDarkRisingXx

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Roy is similar to Marth, but easier imo. Roy's grab game isn't as good and it's easier for Mario to escape his kill setups since his sweet-spots are on the inside of his blade rather than the tip.
what are some other Mario mu,s we can talk about. Lets keep this thread alive. The more we share, the better we can handle his mu,s
 

deadjames

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Hmm well how about Ness, I just got done playing a particularly obnoxious Ness player on wifi. After I adapted to the PK Fire spam I was able to beat him consistently. My initial observations are that the MU is in Mario's favor, other than nair OoS Ness doesn't really have the tools to deal with rush downs which is something that Mario excels at, conversely Ness can't really apply pressure of his own without relying heavily on PK Fire which is quite over-centralizing and easy to SDI out of. Also Ness is one of the few characters that Mario significantly out-ranges so that's pretty neat.
 

Tesseract9000

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Can someone please tell me how to fight Zelda? I can't get in and apply pressure when she throws up the fireballs for zoning, I can't shield grab her out of that blue shield either because it knocks me back to far away and if I get knocked off stage, I have to go through all of the fireballs which leads to her throwing me off stage again for a kill. My friend plays like this with her. Anything is appreciated.
 
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