Midwest [Mar 14, 2015] Bourbon State Smash #1 (Louisville, KY)

[Dagduh]

yooo I never implied that.
I'm giving you guys the benefit of the doubt bc I don't know either of you and that would be unfair to assume something shady until I have evidence of such. I'm terribly sorry if you feel insulted. I promise you, that ain't me. I'm nowhere near that guy, and I'm definitely not a keyboard warrior. I got zero punches to hold, throw, etc when it comes to this topic. It's all perspective.

The absolute only reason you guys are making ears perk up in the first place is bc it's taboo to us tourney goers of like 6+ years now to ever see a portion of the pot get taken out, even if it's to continue giving to the players. It just never happens. I'm definitely not saying things can't change. But when you do try to make a change, you get in the crosshairs of interrogation. That's the way it goes. Smash is our baby and we're out to protect it. And I'm sure it's your baby too. And I and others want to come to correct terms on that. I take your word on not pocketing. Just like I took the word of the RTGN organization promising over $2000 to top 8 players in Toledo, OH and they ran off with it. Same with SNES tourney on the east coast in 2009, the dude straight up ran off with the cash, there was a police chase, a hostage situation, and then he held his own self at gun pt.
And then you got Nintendo trying to milk us for what we're worth with marketing.
This situation isn't anywhere near a similar caliber, but just letting you know how dumb it's gotten before lool.

We got our guard up and you have to be ok with that if you want to take on the responsibility as a TO. My first post regarding the 15% might have came off as a jerk post since you don't know me. But I'm all goofy and all play. Now if something sketch was going on, I'd be a diff beast, but there's no truth to that at all yet.

I apologize for any stress, if any, I caused.

Some peeps just don't want their winnings to go to anyone else but them. It might sound selfish, but with 4 hrs of driving, wear and tear on car...we count every penny. I hate to say that but we do. That is an element of competitive smash. Some of us can't afford this hobby otherwise. If you were to mask this as a venue fee, there wouldn't have been a single complaint most likely. It's a matter of principle and the top placing ppl that draws a concern.
EDIT:
I'd rather give you $1 than to donate like $15.75 (my possible cut of winnings + %15 of $5) for someone to get an amiibo. It's more a matter of entry fee. Basically it turns into entry being $4.25 and venue being $1.75. And at that rate, it's almost not worth travelling to unless you get 1st.

I totally see what you are saying. It's just that you aren't the only person putting money in. That's like if a person who got 6th said "I'd rather not put in my 5$ because it will just go to MR.SWOLELITTLEMAC" or whatever. We get that you guys want more of the money and think that 5$ is too cheap, I'll definitely consider that and ask around to see if everyone is cool going to 10$ (the only problem with that is that it might cause some people new to the scene/aren't confident to just not come). However, the entire prize pool is the same. All I am seeing here is that the top 3 want more money, however we want to make sure more than just the top 3 feel like they actually achieved something. Maybe some Link player put in time into a combo and made a pretty sick play that caused the crowd to uproar. I think he would appreciate a fake tophy (gold amiibo) as a prize for that work he put it. We know we can't give everyone prizes and all that, but it always helps to recognize others in my opinion, at least for the smaller tournaments. If it gets quite big then yeah, it will become more focused on just cash and we would expand to top 5 getting cash prizes. If 40 people come then 1st place walks out with 100$. That's still pretty decent, even though you can make more at higher caliber ones. If we charge 10$ a person then yeah, you're making a pretty penny for playing a video game.

Again, this one is cheaper and using 2 stocks because we want to get a feel for the area and network. Please remember this is our first public event. I really do appreciate everyone giving their opinions, don't get me wrong, but if we want to grow we have to make sure everyone feels taken care of and thought of, not just the top 3.

I will say again, if when I ask people at the event how they like the amiibo/ extra prizes idea and it's a resounding no, we will scrap it immediately. But if you have people new to smash trying to get in the scene saying they liked it and it made it a bit more fun, then I am going to keep it despite the " more respected" players not liking it. This is about growing the scene here, not catering to those already dominating it, to be honest. I have had friends come to me talking about how they went to a certain group's event and were treated like garbage or ridiculed for not being great. I have also had venue's flat out REFUSE to allow smash at their place anymore because of another bad group not respecting the store and being rude. This group is here to help bridge the gap between big events in the Midwest and people playing in basements. That's the goal we have at the moment.

 

[Mister Eric]

even $5 works btw. it's just borderline too little to get ppl to travel. Hilt used that S2D venue for years, at both the old and latest location, and always did $5 IIRC. and it worked out fine. the entry is up to you. I get the $5 vibe. Hilt has his own tournies anyways for $10 and if I wanna go there to get my $10 fix, I will.

Pls consider adding $1 to either entry or venue (it doesnt matter since it goes to the same cause). In the long run, you get more for prizes anyways. We just spend one extra dollar, which I think most ppl can afford. If not, I'll cover it, which I'm def willing to do since I want ppl to participate. Been to $10 tournies before where ppl dont have the funds and we all chip in a little dough to help a fellow smasher out. I'm most likely coming and I'm looking forward to meeting you guys.

I prob came off the wrong way initially and the way I came off is just like how people actually are both online and in-person. I'm not like that.Your goal here is one of my goals here too. I like the idea of an amiibo giveaway btw. I never didn't like it. I just want it to be worth my, and many others', while to come too. Gas is cheap, but it aint that cheap <3

 

[skiboots]

I'm keeping my eye on this since there's absolutely nothing else going on this week, I need practice, and my Cinci boys might be going. @ Mister Eric

Taking money out of the pot burns players coming for dat money. I'd personally prefer if venue fee was raised to $2 to cover your costs than having a smaller reward for winning. That's why we have venue fees in the first place, so you don't have to pay out of pocket for hosting the event.

I don't think anyone would be against 3 stocks (more play time!), especially since this is a single-event tourney that will probably be over by 5PM (very early by smash standards). 2 stocks is just a half-baked measure to shave, at most, an hour off tourney times.

Also +1 for customs (yeah, Katakiri just said that...)

You thinking of bringing anyone /w you if you come down?

 

[skiboots]

I'm keeping my eye on this since there's absolutely nothing else going on this week, I need practice, and my Cinci boys might be going. @ Mister Eric

Taking money out of the pot burns players coming for dat money. I'd personally prefer if venue fee was raised to $2 to cover your costs than having a smaller reward for winning. That's why we have venue fees in the first place, so you don't have to pay out of pocket for hosting the event.

I don't think anyone would be against 3 stocks (more play time!), especially since this is a single-event tourney that will probably be over by 5PM (very early by smash standards). 2 stocks is just a half-baked measure to shave, at most, an hour off tourney times.

Also +1 for customs (yeah, Katakiri just said that...)

You thinking of bringing anyone /w you if you come down??

 

[Mister Eric]

Skiboots' avatar shows that he dont give a beep about double posting.

 

[skiboots]

Skiboots' avatar shows that he dont give a beep about double posting.

oops. esportssss

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Okay. Because we've been around as long as we have, we've seen tournaments where the hosts pocket money from the ev
ents. Whether it be the "venue" fee or part of the pot, Smash tournaments should be for building up the community as a community, and not to serve the interest of the TOs. I hope you can see how this could seem to potentially be another case of this. If you're going to set aside an amount of money for something of the nature that you mentioned, you can be vague, but don't list it as being a part of the pot. To be honest, if I were to go, I would be fine paying $7 for the event as a whole. $5 for the event, $1 for venue, and $1 to support future prizes. And on that matter, you could even drop the entry fee to $4, with a $1 entry fee and $1 fee to support future prizes. It's whatever. Since it's not listed as being a part of the cash pool, it doesn't seem as if you're taking the players' money. Not the victors' money, every players' money. I don't care if you're only taking a quarter out of every entry fee. If you're taking it out of the "entry fee", and not making it out to be a separate fee, that's not okay.

The Smash community comes first. We all feel this way. I won't go too much into my life story, but most of my closest friends are relationships I've built in this very community. So I know how important it is to support the new players that are just coming into the scene. Ask the TOs of the tournaments at Wick's, we've been more than welcoming to them, as well as supportive.

I don't care about wanting "more of the money". If I put in my money and you win, you get the money and I know exactly why. If I put my money in and the TO gets part of the money, I want to know why. I ran tournaments at Something 2 Do for four years, and I never took a dime. I've hosted weeklies, monthlies, regionals, and everything in between, and I never made a dime. If I ever contributed for bonus prizes, it came out of my own pocket. So understand that, yes, we do support the community. It's our family.

Also, what venues have refused you? Because I have only held events at two locations in Louisville, and I am still on really good terms with the venue owners of both. Where exactly are you talking about? Where were players feeling unwelcome? What were the tournaments? The venue owners that saw Smashers that left them with a bad taste in their mouth, were probably working with Louisville's Melee scene. I'm not going to go too deep into that, because I do have some good friends in the Louisville Melee Community, but there are several that give smashers a bad name.

Also, if you want to cater to more of the players, pay out more than top three. Paying the top three in an expected 40 man event, when you could easily pay top 6, isn't a good idea. As long as the lowest placement that makes money is at least getting their money back, it'll be okay. And with how you have it, third is getting $30 if you get 40 players. You can afford to pay more players.

 

[Dagduh]

Okay. Because we've been around as long as we have, we've seen tournaments where the hosts pocket money from the ev
ents. Whether it be the "venue" fee or part of the pot, Smash tournaments should be for building up the community as a community, and not to serve the interest of the TOs. I hope you can see how this could seem to potentially be another case of this. If you're going to set aside an amount of money for something of the nature that you mentioned, you can be vague, but don't list it as being a part of the pot. To be honest, if I were to go, I would be fine paying $7 for the event as a whole. $5 for the event, $1 for venue, and $1 to support future prizes. And on that matter, you could even drop the entry fee to $4, with a $1 entry fee and $1 fee to support future prizes. It's whatever. Since it's not listed as being a part of the cash pool, it doesn't seem as if you're taking the players' money. Not the victors' money, every players' money. I don't care if you're only taking a quarter out of every entry fee. If you're taking it out of the "entry fee", and not making it out to be a separate fee, that's not okay.

The Smash community comes first. We all feel this way. I won't go too much into my life story, but most of my closest friends are relationships I've built in this very community. So I know how important it is to support the new players that are just coming into the scene. Ask the TOs of the tournaments at Wick's, we've been more than welcoming to them, as well as supportive.

I don't care about wanting "more of the money". If I put in my money and you win, you get the money and I know exactly why. If I put my money in and the TO gets part of the money, I want to know why. I ran tournaments at Something 2 Do for four years, and I never took a dime. I've hosted weeklies, monthlies, regionals, and everything in between, and I never made a dime. If I ever contributed for bonus prizes, it came out of my own pocket. So understand that, yes, we do support the community. It's our family.

Also, what venues have refused you? Because I have only held events at two locations in Louisville, and I am still on really good terms with the venue owners of both. Where exactly are you talking about? Where were players feeling unwelcome? What were the tournaments? The venue owners that saw Smashers that left them with a bad taste in their mouth, were probably working with Louisville's Melee scene. I'm not going to go too deep into that, because I do have some good friends in the Louisville Melee Community, but there are several that give smashers a bad name.

Also, if you want to cater to more of the players, pay out more than top three. Paying the top three in an expected 40 man event, when you could easily pay top 6, isn't a good idea. As long as the lowest placement that makes money is at least getting their money back, it'll be okay. And with how you have it, third is getting $30 if you get 40 players. You can afford to pay more players.

Since the flyers, pages, and this thread have been seen by a lot we aren't changing the prize pool. If we do go to 10$ then moving up to top 5 or top 6 is something we already agreed on.

On the subject of the venues, I will send you a PM about it so we don't air anybody's dirty laundry out here.

I really can't stress enough how this event is more of a feeler than an outline of how we will run the tournaments. The stock limits, the customs, and the event fee are all things we were going to talk to the actual players about and see what the group prefers. You guys are acting as if this is how we are set on doing things, when multiple times we have told you this is our first public event, and more of a networking and responsive event than a truly competitive event.

Think of it as a game in beta. While the core stuff is here, we have the flexibility to change up how certain things are done. We have heard countless people preferring 3 stocks ever since we went public. We got it! As long as we are good on time that WILL happen! But not at this event. This one's rules have been set, as have the prize pool and everything else.

I have already made a sheet that I will take around to people just to ask them what they prefer and will tally up all the options. Our group has planned the hell out of this.

I totally understand that you are giving us advice and I do appreciate it. I just want people to realize this is kind of a beta-test to the group's tournaments. My main priority at this point is to make sure that everyone who does come has a great time and things run smoothly. The next tournaments, after we have all the data and feedback we need from the actual players, will be the ones where you see all the changes being made.

So if everyone says "we want 3-stocks, no prizes other than cash, miis, and custom equipment" like some of the posts in this thread, so be it. I just want to bring people together. The reason things are like they are for this tournament is that it's how the people that have been in our group (about 25 strong in my apartment) have enjoyed it. We are free from the apartment and coming out into the scene, we want to help. But you guys have to give us at least one tournament to get used to how things work and what the people that will come to S2D want to play/ pay for.

When I was first making this event on facebook, I asked a few friends who play what they wanted and boom, there we go. They liked the little Gold Trophies, so we kept those. Some said they wanted to help pay for it, so boom. 15% of all the money goes to help it. I can EASILY reword it right now in the description that it is a 6$ total fee with 4.25$ for event, 1$ for venue, and .75$ for extra prize costs. If I do the only thing that will change is the wording. If the wording is really what threw this forum on top of it's head, then I will change it quickly.

 

[NessfromOnett]

How many competitors are we expecting? 16-32?

 

[Dagduh]

How many competitors are we expecting? 16-32?

So far 38+

 

[NessfromOnett]

So, do you think you'll finish with around 50 or so?

 

[NessfromOnett]

I'm considering attending but I'm thinking this tourney may be too difficult for me, it would be my first tournament. I'm 14 and I'd like to compete, but I'm not sure if I'm good enough.

 

[Mister Eric]

I'm considering attending but I'm thinking this tourney may be too difficult for me, it would be my first tournament. I'm 14 and I'd like to compete, but I'm not sure if I'm good enough.

A lot of people come into the competitive scene with the mentality that they aren't good enough and therefore shouldn't compete. When honestly, there's no better way to prepare for tournament experience than just straight up participating. Everyone has to start somewhere. When I began back in 2008, my first Out of State (OoS) tourney I didn't take a single game. But I loved that. It showed me that I was nowhere near the skill level I thought I was so it meant that I had a whole lot more of this game to enjoy because I hadn't milked it for what it was worth.

tl;dr
go play. if you lose, you lose. If you lose bad, you lose bad. No one's judging. And if they do, they won't last in the smash scene for long b/c we ain't like that. Hope to see you there!

 

[NessfromOnett]

I'll see maybe if I can go. Thanks man

 

[NessfromOnett]

I may be busy, otherwise I'll try to go.

 

[Dagduh]

So, do you think you'll finish with around 50 or so?

Probably close to 45.

You should come even if you are nervous. we keep the environment positive at our events and always have fun! Also it's a good way to meet people and get some good insights on the game! There will be a few other high school students there I know for sure.

 

[NessfromOnett]

Thanks if I'm not busy I'll probably come.

 

[skiboots]

I'm considering attending but I'm thinking this tourney may be too difficult for me, it would be my first tournament. I'm 14 and I'd like to compete, but I'm not sure if I'm good enough.

First tourney I went to in Cinci, I got bodied. I went 0-9 in my pools. Didn't beat a single person in friendlies. But everyone was sooo willing to help give me tips, pointers, and I met a TON of awesome people. I stuck with them and kept playing with them and now I've been closer than ever to beating them in games.

Like Eric said, if you lose, you lose. But the mentality you have going into it is what defines how much improvement you will see. A healthy mindset will lead to unavoidable improvements/results

 

[NessfromOnett]

Thanks guys, like I said I'd love to come if I'm not busy.

 

[NessfromOnett]

Is the bracket setup random or is there a process? Pool play? Prior tournament success? Etc.

 

[NessfromOnett]

Also when will it end? I need to be in Frankfort by 6:30.

 

[NessfromOnett]

P.m. not A.m.

 

[Dagduh]

Also when will it end? I need to be in Frankfort by 6:30.

We are aiming at 11-6. Will probably end earlier, like around 430-5 because we are doing 2 stocks.

 

[NessfromOnett]

I can make it for sure. I'm bringing some people with me, not yet sure how many. Thanks guys for all the help!

 

[NessfromOnett]

If someone were to bring a gc controller would there be an adapter available?

 

[Mister Eric]

every setup will have an adapter. also, instead of double or triple posting, you should hit the edit button. i dont mind double posts but mods do. it's against the rules.

 

[NessfromOnett]

Ohhh, thanks for the tip, lol.

 

[Jely]

oh my gosh there is actually a tournament in Louisville. Wish I co go but I just found this thread. Also I can't drive Will you ever have melee as an event? That would be sick.

 

[The Zone]

Yeah some Melee/PM action would be great. I know about five people just at my high school who'd go if one of those were there, and I'm sure there's lots more around Louisville.

 

[Jely]

yeah, I am way more confident in my melee play than sm4sh. if they didn't have enough set-ups for melee I would have brought 2 setups with melee, too late for that now I guess (jk)

 

[Dooms]

yeah, I am way more confident in my melee play than sm4sh. if they didn't have enough set-ups for melee I would have brought 2 setups with melee, too late for that now I guess (jk)

Yeah some Melee/PM action would be great. I know about five people just at my high school who'd go if one of those were there, and I'm sure there's lots more around Louisville.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/KyInOhSmash/

Join the facebook group. You can ask about Louisville Melee in there. Tournaments that get a lot of people that have such a short time to run a tournament generally can only fit one specific event in.

Is this going to be a weekly thing? Monthly? Bi-monthly? This has probably been said somewhere in here but with all of the posting I don't wanna look for it pls halp. :x

 

[NessfromOnett]

I did pretty well. I got stomped by fumbles, lol. It was good. I'm sure I'll be back again! P.S.: I was LYLE.

 

[CaptainFalchion]

Excellently run and great tournament. Best one I've been to so far. Really enjoyed the availability of setups for friendlies, no customs, and stagelist. Only problem I really had was the 2 stocks but I understand that will probably be a necessity of these tournaments as long as attendance is that high. Had a blast and I can't wait for the next one. Nice job guys and congrats to everyone. Fruity falcon comin back stronger than ever next one.

 

[Dagduh]

I did pretty well. I got stomped by fumbles, lol. It was good. I'm sure I'll be back again! P.S.: I was LYLE.

dude you got FAR! Great job for your first event! Hope to see you again!

 

[Dagduh]

The people have definitely made it clear they want 3 stocks and that is the way we will go.
People also voted no customs nor special miis.

 

[Dooms]

People also voted no miis.

Why are you allowing people to vote for banning a character that they don't play? I'm a mii fighter player. They play completely differently from any character in the game, and not allowing them in tournaments is not fair for anyone that actually uses them in a competitive format (and yes, there are mii fighter mains). Mii Fighters are all characters, and considering that there are guest mii's available to easily allow creation of default mii's that completely remove any of the customization factors... :/

I understand taking a vote on no customs, because that's a huge debatable topic with points from both sides that are kind of sort of legitimate I guess, but taking a vote on allowing or banning mii fighters does nothing but ruins the development of the character. There is not a single reason for them to be banned aside from "I'm not used to fighting them" and "I'm a lazy TO and I don't want to use the guest Mii's to make default Mii Fighters." and I would be shocked if there was any other reason for people voting no towards Mii Fighters in this poll of yours. They're characters that have a very underdeveloped meta game already due to having inconsistent weight/height, a strong reliance on customs (same boat as Palutena being that their specials were made with customs in mind), and are generally underused due to not being allowed on wifi random matchmaking. Banning the character is simply not the way to go, and it's really disappointing to hear that people are wanting characters banned that are already hardcore nerfed and underdeveloped as it is.

I mean, why aren't you taking a poll on banning Diddy Kong, Sheik, Pikachu, Sonic, Rosalina, or any of the other characters if you're taking a poll on removing three characters from the roster?

People making rulesets like this are the reason why Mii Fighter mains are so uncommon (And why I only have Mii Fighters as a secondary/tertiary personally). They are only allowed to use their characters in half of the tournaments they go to because people ban them due to not knowing how to deal with them. Easy way out.

 

[Dagduh]

Why are you allowing people to vote for banning a character that they don't play? I'm a mii fighter player. They play completely differently from any character in the game, and not allowing them in tournaments is not fair for anyone that actually uses them in a competitive format (and yes, there are mii fighter mains). Mii Fighters are all characters, and considering that there are guest mii's available to easily allow creation of default mii's that completely remove any of the customization factors... :/

I understand taking a vote on no customs, because that's a huge debatable topic with points from both sides that are kind of sort of legitimate I guess, but taking a vote on allowing or banning mii fighters does nothing but ruins the development of the character. There is not a single reason for them to be banned aside from "I'm not used to fighting them" and "I'm a lazy TO and I don't want to use the guest Mii's to make default Mii Fighters." and I would be shocked if there was any other reason for people voting no towards Mii Fighters in this poll of yours. They're characters that have a very underdeveloped meta game already due to having inconsistent weight/height, a strong reliance on customs (same boat as Palutena being that their specials were made with customs in mind), and are generally underused due to not being allowed on wifi random matchmaking. Banning the character is simply not the way to go, and it's really disappointing to hear that people are wanting characters banned that are already hardcore nerfed and underdeveloped as it is.

I mean, why aren't you taking a poll on banning Diddy Kong, Sheik, Pikachu, Sonic, Rosalina, or any of the other characters if you're taking a poll on removing three characters from the roster?

People making rulesets like this are the reason why Mii Fighter mains are so uncommon (And why I only have Mii Fighters as a secondary/tertiary personally). They are only allowed to use their characters in half of the tournaments they go to because people ban them due to not knowing how to deal with them. Easy way out.

Shiz, I typed that out wrong. It was for the special mii's.
I'm all for the Medium height 1111 Mii's. We were talking about light, medium, and heavy.

Next tournament will have the three miis at average weight and height with 1111. But no varied sizes.

 

[Dooms]

Shiz, I typed that out wrong. It was for the special mii's.
I'm all for the Medium height 1111 Mii's. We were talking about light, medium, and heavy.

Next tournament will have the three miis at average weight and height with 1111. But no varied sizes.

THERE IS A GOD!!

thank you.

 

[Dagduh]

THERE IS A GOD!!

thank you.

Yeah man I am sorry for any frustration. I totally agree that the average sized 1111 miis are basically just normal characters. The only reason they weren't in this tourny is because I didn't want any stress about someone needing a small mii or whatever.

 

[Dooms]

Yeah man I am sorry for any frustration. I totally agree that the average sized 1111 miis are basically just normal characters. The only reason they weren't in this tourny is because I didn't want any stress about someone needing a small mii or whatever.

I understand. I was just worried that I wouldn't be able to use a default mii swordfighter and it would discourage mii fighter mains/secondaries from showing up. They're really underrepresented at the moment, so I'd hate to see them banned altogether. I'm just glad they're not hahaha.

edit: Do you actually use Lucina or is that just for smashboards avatar? If you do, we should wifi sometime. I'm trying to pick her up as a serious main. ;_;