-Sorry for taking so long to comment on one of your movesets, I’m excited to finally do so!
-BOFURI doesn’t ring a bell (maybe heard about it before, but not to a meaningful degree), so going into this character completely blind. The idea of a shield warrior is unusual though, often leads to loads of shield bashes and some more creative ideas down the line, two ideals in life.
-Appealing formatting, most I could whine about is that it’s huge and spread wide apart on my laptop’s screen, but boo hoo I like my walls of text thinner and girthier… this is a good stylistic choice~
GIMMICKS
-Liking the slightly buffed take on the Link/Hero shield mechanic, feels right at home on him. Would normally be iffy about being able to block projectiles in midair, but with his lackluster stats up there, it feels less like a dead-simple “choice” and moreso giving him wider options, approaching slow/defensive grounded OR airborne, or fast/unguarded purely on the ground. The Tough Guy-esq addition makes perfect sense too.
Shield Stuff:
-It’s only natural to, early on, cover a universal mechanic that dozens of upcoming moves will use/reference, so wise call there. I feel you’ve got an overall good system with the active frames + 4 lingering frames, although it makes me wonder if there’ll be per-move exceptions in case it doesn’t always fit the animation (such as prominently holding out the shield either before or after the attack, like a defensive stance -> sudden lunge forward, or vice-versa an attack into a held position). Might just be me / maybe this is truly universal, but if there’s any moves later that AREN’T universal, an extra little clarification of “there will be some exceptions later” both covers these kinds of questions & might get the reader excited for said exceptions.
-Bonus thought (future me, after starting Neutral B), trying to imagine how the shield intangibility might screw with grabs. Attacks beat grabs and all that, but it’s a little funny how if you’re a few frames too early on the whiff punish, if you don’t have a tether grab, your arm’s theoretically going straight through his. Might be a bit frustrating in some moments, but seems tame in comparison to some of Ult’s nonsense.
-The rebound explanation also makes me wonder, what counts as holding out the shield, is it a case-by-case/”exactly what you’d assume” mechanic, or is it tied to the above mechanic?
Regardless, curious to see whether this might be a downside on some of his weaker moves, where an opponent getting a light rebound might be even or even beneficial endlag-wise on their own moves (think the classic meme of two characters repeatedly clanking against each other’s Tilts much faster than they could in neutral). Offhand question, do you prefer to write with an overall character-positive tone that highlights their strengths far more than their weaknesses? Some people in MYM tend to do that, from what I’ve seen.
-REALLY fond of his shield attacks being more nuanced and vulnerable, love how he’ll have a strong combination of offense bolstered by defense, but he can’t just mindlessly Dash Attack through a full Samus Charge Shot or something. Such a cool idea, a mechanic that’s only as strong as the move it’s applied to, as well as tied to a series-wide universal mechanic that most players are at least a little familiar with -> can easily learn and get used to.
Also lovely addition about shield swings being better offensively but weaker defensively, thumbs up emoji
-Less fond of the 3 healing passives. Smash overall is really stingy with healing mechanics directly baked into fighters, and whenever it shows up, it’s either situational, risky, miniscule, or all three. Each of them individually are IMO plenty… Life Eater, even assuming an ideal 3-stock game where you take each stock at a relatively early 100%, that’s a whopping 60% worth of the opponent’s effort that you negate just by playing the game? Soul Eater’s a mild 20% in 1v1s but can skyrocket in more chaotic free-for-alls (especially if Chrome also plays like a superheavy, who are infamous for milking K.O.s in the bucketloads against multiple players). Soul Siphon’s the most tame and fitting, my favorite of the three, but feels wholly unnecessary when combined with the other two, and could probably shine as a unique mechanic of a move - or maybe it’s much stronger but only works if you parry an attack, giving it higher risk/reward and making it more engaging to fight?
They also feel like oversimplified overkill, this character already takes a mechanic mostly unexplored in Smash and does a lot with it on a surface level, let alone how it synergizes with loads of moves the reader’s yet to peep. These don’t feel like justified additions at all, and I know for a fact they could be translated to much more fun & engaging active mechanics dependent on good choices, so admittedly I’m quite disappointed by these.
Stout Guardian:
-Not fond of this either. Again, he already has the shield blocking mechanic AND tons of healing AND he’s the 3rd heaviest character in the game, why does he also get this on top of it? Do you think he needs this to function, or are these choices made purely to be faithful to the source material?
-Does he just ignore shieldpokes? Seems like an obvious Plan B when you can’t shatter your opponent’s chesticle Skittle.
-Feel like he should immediately WHOA back to stage rather than have a grace period with blastzones, could listen to arguments for it working in onstage situations, but offstage sounds degenerate. You don’t specify how long the period is, but you do specify “if he’s still in the blastzone”, heavily implying it’s at least a little while. My problem is that he gets a free boost back to the stage if he doesn’t leave, but… why try to recover normally and risk not making it back/getting gimped, when you can just risk-free burn time out there and get zero-commitment whooshed back towards the stage? If it had some commitment you could argue that hanging out there gives opponents time to edgeguard it (so there’d be a dilemma between recovering normally with less time for the opponent, or giving them more time but getting a better recovery), but lagless, I’d like to hear why you WOULDN’T just wait until the period’s over.
-Regardless of how people feel about getting suddenly Alt+F4’d by stuff like Thwack or a G&W 9, it’s still a part of the move/item’s charm, people are used to rolling with it and I think everyone agrees it’s some harmless spice every now and then. Why does Chrome get to turn those moments off entirely, not just once per game (when these moments only happen once a game anyways), but per stock? Imagine a legendarily lucky game where Hero gets 3 early Whack/Thwacks, sure it’s bull**** but that’s a hysterical clip for the ages… against Chrome, he’d truck all three like nothing happened, why does he deserve to be special? This also goes overboard and starts punishing genuinely skillful/crowd-pleasing plays, which I really can’t get behind - it auto-activates after 100%, but imagine getting a hard read with a charged Smash Attack, an iconic Falcondorf punch, standard heavyweight cheese, a Jigglypuff’s hard-earned Rest… but Chrome said nope, no matter how well/poorly his user played.
-Would probably be cooler and stay novel/neat if it was once per game and you could choose when you popped it (imagine holding it in your back pocket if you need every chance you can get during a last-stock scenario, or burning it early to negate a cheese kill but leaving your future stocks more vulnerable), but surely this must get annoying if it’s happening every single stock. Not just for the opponent, I could imagine Chrome players getting at least a little sick of it, too.
-Sorry if I went overboard, but was fully caught off-guard by the passives. Would love to hear your thoughts on the matter, on whatever you’d like to say.
SPECIALS
Neutral Special:
-45 frames perfectly matches Byleth Arrow, so that’s my mental comparison. They have similarly bad mobility, although the shield cancel capabilities obviously make it harder to fairly compare. But 45 frames isn’t THAT long, as long as the opponent isn’t actively running at you, you can easily jump around and pop this midair without being too unsafe.
I think this is the first case of questioning how the shield works, you say the active frames are 14-16, does that mean the attack, the shield, or both (i.e. release for the attack VS the initial shield from activation)? Doesn’t seem unfair to assume the 1% hitbox is more like a parry against attacks/grabs, a really short-lived one with a decent delay (like trying to parry with the timing of a Sephiroth aerial), but how long does the projectile negation last? I’ll probably not ask this question over and over again if it’s relevant in other moves, it’s important here since it’s an otherwise-vulnerable charge move, but it’s probably less important on the Standards.
He can also defend himself in a different way (even if it’s risky and unideal), so perhaps the other details aren’t too important overall.
Side note, there’s something really amusing about how he’s so skilled with his shield, a stylish skyward stab with his sword to set it ablaze does nothing to opponents touching it, but his shieldhand semi-relatedly moving aside to make his pose even cooler, THAT’S the part that hurts people. Not in a bad way though, I like it~
Mildly amusing that the first move in the shield hero’s kit is him pulling out a surprise flaming machete, though that’s getting off-track.
-Pleasant change of pace from the usual “big move” Neutral B, needing a charge but it’s pretty short and preservable, respectable damage with no killpower, seems to come out decently fast; it’s far from kit-defining, it’s just a nice tool to have in the back-pocket if you have some time to charge, but oh hey, you can pretty freely pop the other versions in a pinch.
The frame data’s helpful, so I guess the frame data was purely for the sword. What’s the rough info for the shield, then?
Maybe you went a bit too far in the “anytime” direction though, a big 16% sword slash that isn’t just safe but also comes out on a blistering Frame 6, that’s… hmm. It takes a resource, yet it’s a resource Chrome will likely get many times per stock let alone per match, and the sheer speed makes it incredibly versatile. Even just on a casual level, spend less than a second’s respite to get an easy extra 16% (and off of any combo starter, that alone seems worth it. Wonder if you could spend the time they need to regain momentum and approach you to charge Neutral B again, or land a combo starter only to bait an airdodge and get an easy charge, a close-range scramble scenario if they neutral airdodged, potentially even some plus frames if they directional’d.
The lower charges, as you say, are much slower and more situational (reliant on good positioning and reactions for tech chases, probably simple to combo into but not so much out of), so no problems with them. Really wish you gave them more than a footnote though, they’re a mere afterthought with little to work with.
-How high is the base knockback? Reminds me of Brawl Snake F-Smash, which had the highest base knockback in the game, but suffered from pretty bad knockback growth. Except this move you can use in the air and offstage - can this move cheese people offstage? You can combo into it pretty easily, and it’s not too hard to use raw.
-So do you need to press A to use the lower charges, with B fully focused on the toggle? You don’t mention it, seems like massive input overlap otherwise, so assuming the obvious.
Speaking of assumptions, did you lump in frame data with the “hitbox properties” being identical? Hearing hitbox and damage just makes me assume range and damage, was half-expecting it to be slower in exchange for all that damage. Is it still Frame 6? The only detail you mention is shield safety, which is kinda tied to power/move-specific modifiers but can also be tied to speed, yet even then that’d just be the endlag.
-Samus and Mewtwo’s Neutral Bs take 125 and 133 frames to fully charge, respectively. Not the fairest comparison since they’re both projectiles that kill, but Chrome takes 45 frames to charge his Frame 6 16% sword slash, and even factoring in cancel time + human error, less than 100 frames to charge his (presumably) Frame 6 32% sword slash, which he can either convert into a massive buff for not THAT much extra time, or use to deal at least 16% regardless of shielding; not to mention the healing that stacks up over the match.
I’m incredibly worried about that frame data, this is a move Chrome can let rip nigh-whenever and opponents have to play super carefully around him, it’s not spammable but it’s not hard to get either. I might be wrong about it, but next time you play Smash, hop around with Byleth, and without canceling it, see how many Failnaughts the opponent only punishes after the arrow flies (if at all) - try to ignore that move’s endlag, it’s not indicative of this Neutral B, and if you’re worried about the arrow’s threat skewing things, intentionally aim away from the opponent so it’s a “free” punish. Pop it after you hit them, pop it while they’re recovering, pop it after one of your higher-knockback throws, pop it after a full-charge heck, pop it if the opponent’s hanging back and isn’t one of the faster characters. Chrome’s air speed isn’t far from Byleth’s, try jumping backwards with Failnaught and note how tricky it can be sometimes.
-Are this move and the loaded passives section indicative of this character’s overall design philosophy?
I kinda like the concept, and can appreciate the thought put into it, but this feels too much like “everything and the kitchen sink” / “missing the trees for the forest” design. It’s a charge move with multiple different uses and an entire alternate charge, the low-charges can tech chase, the alt-charge ignores shields, it deals loads of damage, it’s a giant sword move, it’s fast, it’s safe, it starts and ends and maybe extends combos, and if you still want a big flashy slow effect, you can go for the gigabuffs.
Apart from the buffs, the move feels weirdly shallow despite the quantity on display - you don’t delve into how useful (or the opposite) the lower charges are, and whether or not my glasses are tinted by the frame data (can you blame me?), all the attention goes from the meh low-damage Frame >=14 swings to the sexy instant full-charge. And the full-charge moves are everything moves that you can use in any situation with little risk, so the only nuance that goes into using them is finding places to sneak in charge, debating whether you wanna charge both (assuming the opportunity doesn’t hand itself to you) and how much, or debating whether you’d rather use the buff.
-If you disagree with me and don’t want to straight-nerf the move’s charge or the damage/range/speed/something, what if you leaned into the speedy charge and instead distributed power across the different versions, spicing them up a little in exchange? Imagine lowering the charge to like ~30-35 frames, giving the lower charges a bit more speed and sauce (think Hero’s Zap/Zapple/Kazap or Robin’s Thunder/Elthunder/Arcthunder/Thoron, each move has a healthy niche compared to each other, you’re still preferably going for the higher charges since they’re overall more rewarding, but the fast ones still help), maybe Stage 1 tech chases -> Stage 2 combos -> Stage 3 deals great damage but isn’t quite as fast as the others. Perhaps give it the Corrin Instapin tech that everyone loves (press B and then immediately slide your thumb to A to bypass the move’s otherwise slow startup) so you don’t have to worry about the speed of double-tapping B.
Still can’t brainlessly charge unless you want an approaching opponent, but you could lean more into the dynamic nature of it, deciding which move you want on the fly, still giving up opportunities if you want the bigger charges (you could cease a combo in exchange for safely getting a full Flame Slash for the next engagement). Stage 3’s still “the best one” but the opportunity cost of going for the lower charges is perfectly reasonable, you don’t feel like you’re going for explicitly worse options.
Ooh, maybe Flame Slash charges super quickly, but Ghost Mud gets a completely opposite change, a much beefier charge more akin to the typical charge Neutral B? Then you can keep a ton of the power by diverting it to Ghost Mud granting CHUNKY buffs, though charging both Flame Slash + Ghost Mud takes even longer than normal and you really gotta earn it… As a consolation prize, if you charge Flame Slash first, you’ve still got a solid triplet of moves that you’re steadily buffing over time, ready to rock whenever.
You get the idea, I feel like this move could rock if you weren’t so heavily incentivized to go for the amazing full-charge all the time, if the power wasn’t so condensed in one spot.
-If you intend for the low-charge versions to be weaker though, can respect that.
Side Special:
-For King Bob-Omb I had to test an average run speed crossing a single grid, Pac-Man/Shulk’s 1.672 crossed a grid in about 6-7ish frames. So super rough mental math guesstimate, would possibly take about ~24 frames at most for him to cross the 4 grids and therefore reach top speed, maybe 20-22 frames if I lowball? Not asking you to come up with details like these, just guesstimating for myself.
Hyper-personal taste, really appreciate getting a condensed bundle of info about the move that I can absorb and keep in mind for discussing them, absolutely nothing objective about it but this is my favorite way to read movesets.
Edit: Lucario (46th, 1.705) crosses 4 grids in about 26 frames? hmm
-Even with the simplified summaries, appreciate the lineup here. Got the classic attack that can be used manually or automatically, with a bit of modulation primarily useful offensively/for mindgames, but also mundanely helpful (can either use early and hold forward for a further-reaching burst, or if you don’t want to overcommit, can pump the brakes and avoid sacrificing too much space). Liking the jump and turning limitations, you’re committing to your choices but not giving up a limb for it, and they give some freedom not afforded to everyone (and if you wanna screw with somebody, wasting time by spamming the turns back and forth sounds funny). And the ledgecancel pleasantly surprised me, doesn’t sound like you can exploit it unfairly, but adds a dose of creativity to the mix - you mention psyching out someone shielding on the ledge, but you could psyche people trying to recover, use it for some weird dashdance-like movement by ledges (run in one direction and Side B the other way at any moment), probably has a bunch of slippery airborne stuff… Plus, that unique pseudo-command jump is so cool! Wasn’t expecting this guy to be a 3D platformer protag, can easily imagine loads of expressive movement, plus it’s broadly appealing to both pros who like advanced stuff & casuals who wanna yeet themselves offstage for flashy clips.
Roughly how quickly can Chrome act out of a jump, is it like Bowser Jr.’s or a regular jump where you’re rapidly actionable, or is it like the fake fullhop from Wario Bike or Splat Roller that have some endlag?
Also, can you use the latter to run off and nigh-instantly grab the ledge, or is it like running off the ledge normally and not so easy? Apologies if you explain that later, this would be another layer to the onion.
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https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxeE5EsG8-KtMIzlRNLTSAEX_TnwPQWzBX?si=jMAgLAbeXCbnMkl5
The minimum-momentum version reminds me of this; I think 10% and the combined raw safety + crossup mix on shield AND comboing into itself at low%s is a lot, either lower damage or less safety, but the other can stay… But can picture this appealing to the inner monkey inside all of us without it being too unfair/degenerate. It’d be safe on shield, but if it whiffs/gets dodged, you’re at the very least disengaging if not leaving yourself vulnerable.
Interesting middle-ground version, being generally useful but shining the brightest at mid%s with more potent/”real” mixups than the youngest sibling.
And nice, a satisfying big dumb kill move that feels earned (estimating this would have a startup in the mid-to-late 30s, assuming everything’s equal), complimenting the rest without overstepping its niche.
Two questions, do the higher-momentum versions change the frame data at all? And what happens if you ram by the ledge, do you stop in place, run off, or cancel?
-I’m again a little worried about the frame data here, the “attack the moment you input Side B” version is Frame 14 at the quickest but apparently has so little endlag that it’s not just safe on shield but also a true combo into itself (and that’s assuming fastest startup). Either the hitstun’s crazy, or it’s fast enough that idk if dodging it would give you enough time to punish it. My main concern is whether the counterplay entirely relies on you jumping, or if you have some time to whiff punish it while staying grounded - rolling in the same direction as him is super risky, spotdodge miiiiiight work, and rolling towards him just resets to neutral.
On a less serious, quality-of-life note, maybe the move could also use a visual indicator of sorts for which version of the ram he’ll do, like subtle flashes or colour changes? Would make it so much easier for people to intuit and learn the timings, rather than brute-forcing it through experience, and also make it less frustrating to miss the version you wanted, a bit vague if you attacked early but much clearer if you were late.
-Oh. So you deliberately overtuned the damage on the lowest version, and compensated with a cooldown mechanic that nukes the damage unless you hold your horses for a few seconds?
That’s… curious design, I’m mixed on it. Credit where credit is due, respect the vision, giving him spikes of a heavy-duty shield’s power fantasy, he can start an engagement like a mighty juggernaut but can’t keep using it. The debuff cooldown itself is fascinating in general, much better than Multiversus’ example of completely disabling moves.
Seems like an overly harsh bandaid solution for a problem you unnecessarily caused, though? I wholeheartedly believe you could tune it so casual/meme players can have fun spamming it against friends without disturbing the balance for serious play. If you tune down the strengths and make the downtime less painful, it keeps the thoughtful disincentivization but doesn’t make it feel like he replaced his shield with cardboard. The cooldown itself isn’t the problem, moreso how polarizing it seems.
It’s also an ineffective downside for what matters most, I think, since the damage is the only meaningful change. Defense-wise, the earliest version goes from blocking <19.1% attacks down to <10.1%, and yeah the second threshold is easier to pass, but still blocks tons of the typical attacks an opponent would use in neutral/disadvantage, let alone multi-hits and projectiles, or 49 out of 50 attacks that’d be viable in the scramble situations this attack sets up so well. Offense-wise, it doesn’t change the frame data and therefore the safety/combo potential of the move, it’s still thoroughly annoying in the same ways the regular version is, but now it’s a little less obnoxious for the opponent only to feel super limp for the user.
Lastly, what did the max-momentum version do to deserve such a hindrance? I could vibe easier with the decision if the shieldbash was purely the quick low-momentum version, maaaaaybe with the middle version, but it’s 100% the fault of who gets hit by the full-momentum version, even if you set up a tech chase into it with an earlier blow. Depressingly undeserved nerf to the heavy ram, my inner superheavy main is grief-strucken.
-What if you diverted some of Ghost Mud’s charge, and let Side B use some of it? Then you could tune it to feel broken with resources, though in exchange now it’s on a resource that you have to back off and recharge, let alone debate between which move you’d rather use it on. Keeps the fun factor, preserves the balance.
-Anyways, air usage. More tasteful versatility! Trades the pure velocity of the grounded version for not just defense in the air, but a larger focus on horizontal momentum and micromovement (can wavebounce Side Bs too, and this is a nice way to turn around midair), still keeping some combo potential too. Clever thinking, inputting midair for easier management of the three types.
Can you jump-cancel the attack on whiff, or does it rely on landing a hit? Might be a little silly if you could threaten a combo tool and jump whether or not it worked.
-The command dive is a neat way to cap this input off, although I question the motion input - the FGC characters have them for faithful purposes, and speaking from a purely functional perspective, without the “true input” buff, I’m not sure why you’d risk messing up a down-forward input (input overlap with fastfalling, adds unnecessary input time before Side B comes out) when you can just input Side B immediately and flick down for a faster, easier, and “safer” result.
Otherwise, can picture it being useful, fitting in between the grounded versions with a different niche. Imagining this as an entertaining way to high-profile an attack before whalloping them, as well as a way to use something stronger point-blank.
The lack of hitlag is the detail I’m most captivated by, such an odd detail few would bring up. It’s an amusing sidegrade, people would have no time to get out of the way as you bulldoze through a crowd, and agreed, that sounds like it’d be BLISS. Yet hitlag in a crowd is really good for extending the hitbox’s duration for ludicrous time, making a bunch of people run/fly into it without expecting it to still hit them.
First, would love to see what it looks like in Final Zoom, if Chrome just keeps falling past the camera while the opponent. Although less positive, second, not a fan of the opponent being left in hitlag while Chrome isn’t, I’m imagining Kazuya D-Air where he keeps going but the opponent is noticeably frozen in place for a bit, that mental image is really janky to me; he’s a good comparison, I think his example would be best.
Up Special:
-Wasn’t sure what to comment on, makes sense to have another shield bash with omnidirectionality, pattern recognition tells me there’s a lot more to this move than the first few paragraphs discuss, felt neutral on it.
The frame data, distance and your description of speed concerned me though, and I pulled out training mode to test it. Chrome’s run speed, Wolf, crosses that distance in 28 frames (roughly measuring the “middle” of the character reaching the respective lines). Assuming the frame data also matches the travel time (and the comparison to Ganondorf/Incin makes me guess Chrome’s also traveling at a set speed?), Up B’s a couple frames slower than an already sluggish run speed.. I think balance-wise that’s fine, but the mental image of a shieldbash THAT slow seems incredibly awkward and weak-looking.
-It’s a few frames faster than Side B as a raw attack point-blank, and always does the same damage as a full-power Level 1 ram for some reason, but the latter’s combo potential alone is a great sidegrade, let alone the billion other things Side B can lead into. If you’re discussing the simplest uses of this move before going into the cool stuff, calling this part “a more flexible approach option” than his Side B when it’s so binary and incredibly limited offensively is baffling - the only scenarios you can use it in are staying purely grounded or as an aggressive landing tool due to the punishing landing lag, but due to the move’s duration it’s much less safe than Side B, and you get arguably less reward than any version of it on top of that.
Side note, what’s the point of giving Side B that cooldown if Up B’s frame data means you can just do Side B -> Up B (ignoring if you have Neutral B charge), and ironically it would do a little more damage than a double ram due to stale move negation?
-Surprised DoA wasn’t mentioned in the gimmicks section. Guessing you wanted to keep it a surprise?
I like it vastly better than Stout Guardian, keeps the “undying will when it counts” theme in a satisfyingly powerful way, it’s still degenerate (would love to hear an argument for why it deserves to trump throws, freely refresh if you survive for 3 seconds, and also Foresight-style neuter mobile opponents for some reason) but to a lesser degree, and requires not just input from the user but also (presumably) only applies to riskier options… so if you wanna survive at high%s, you gotta put yourself in the wringer for it, gotta earn it.
Would recommend mentioning multi-hits, as unless you program in another special case (sounds self-explanatory that when he’s thrown, it’s stored until he’s released), a multi-hit would act the same as a kill confirm - does it detect multi-hits as one move and stores it the same as throws? Hilarious case of “this looks like a job for Aquaman” in the case of Falco’s crappy throws, since a similar contingency would be required to prevent the initial throw from terminating DoA only for an embarrassing death by the laser - or perhaps more practically, Mewtwo F-Throw.
Special moves beat this mechanic? Would like to hear your reasoning, pure curiosity.
-Ah, the cool part: charging it.
And it delivers, feeling positive here. First impressions seemed like it’d be as degenerate as Homing Attack, though it’s generally much easier to both react to & punish in the same scenarios, and air usage forces helpless fall which limits some cases. Could enable some fascinating mindgames and playing chicken with the opponent, and seems mostly restrained in compensation.
I’d argue the ability to shield cancel it is unhealthy, it’d be completely fine without it. If you shorthopped and started charging Up B (let alone doing it from any landing scenario), you’d get all the mobility you could want, and if you want to end as quickly as possible without moving horizontally, just charge straight down, you’re in the air after all and I assume you meant the 8 cardinal directions - could also encourage minding your verticality, since the closer you are to the ground, the more you limit your threat bubble, but the quicker you can disengage. The pause before you can shield cancel is appreciated, but being able to so safely cancel past that point makes it too advantageous for Chrome.
It’d be far more engaging for both parties if you had to choose how you disengaged, since the air version would be dependent on your placement and therefore more predictable (the closer Chrome is to the ground, the sooner his FAF, and the more likely they’ll choose that over riskier options -> “I know you know I know” mindgames ahoy), and if you do it on the ground, you have to pick between rushing forward into a prepared opponent’s hands, rushing away and giving up space, or taking an air route (platforms would make it safer, but ngl that’s cool in its own right)
Also I was just thinking of shield cancels on the ground, can you airdodge out of it midair? gross
-Wait wait wait hold on, I thought you said Stout Guardian activates if Chrome was launched into a blastzone or hit with an instant-kill. Does Up B’s helpless fall automatically trigger it, or does he trigger it just by touching a (side or below) blastzone regardless of state?
Either way, I see what the point is here, you make his recovery trash and have him compensate through these gimmicks. I’ll still disagree with it, normally on the side of buffing heavyweights to make up for them being innately bad, but this character is too extreme for me.
-Again questioning why he’s a gimmick onion, layers upon layers of gimmicks. Balance perspective is one thing, but meta-wise this moveset’s worryingly bloated thus far.
It almost sounds cruel, a better player deliberately saving Up B until late in a stock, then meming on some poor sap online with a Frame 9 OOS 25-30% kill move. The move’s already quite good without it, let alone the past two moves and whatever upcoming horrors await me - there isn’t a downside to it, it’s just another choice to make, you can use his great Up B normally in several versatile ways, or deliberately withhold it for rewards.
-wonder how other people’s comments go, unsure what the community feels about it, hopefully I’m in the minority; I’m very pessimistic and anal about these sorts of things, others seem to be more positive.
Down Special:
-This character sounds like one you could play with the A button unbound and stand a solid chance with, he’d be obviously crippled, but these inputs are loaded.
Would greatly prefer to read the tradeoffs alongside their respective parts, purely discussing Armor’s upsides leads to a short section, and glancing ahead, looks like a lot of information to parse through and remember before I can get to the other half of it, leading to inevitable back-and-forthing.
tbf though, mayhaps I’m just upset because it screws with my write-as-I-go-along commenting method (that and I like reading moves in whole before moving onto other moves, these are effectively individualis moves), can merely discuss surface-level until later
-Appreciate Armor’s simplicity, seems like a good casual-friendly option for if you’re overstimulated and still learning him. Weight is arguably its own upside and downside (but is easier to imagine than an arbitrary multiplier), and the damage reduction is a straight benefit that you don’t need to mentally calculate to use.
What the heck is the frame data for Flames of Death, is it identical? Please tell me he doesn’t have a sidegraded, if not upgraded version of Giant Punch.
-My closest comparison for Ghost Charge is Belmont F-Smash, it’s equally as fast in startup and has even bigger range (albeit losing up to a few frames due to travel time), naturally loses out on power but compensates via airborne usability / greatly increased safety on both whiff and shield / basically being a bonus input that doesn’t “occupy” a slot like a Standard does. Zoot Suit’s Plasma Whip is there too, but it’s multi-purpose in combos and kills, and the lingering hitbox messes with how we remember it. Also thought of Kazuya’s laser, but it’s weird and also has its own nuances.
A delayed yet snappy ranged tool, neat. Sorry for the lack of commentary, it’s merely one cog of many, but I’m mildly pleased by it - looking forward to delving into Armor’s downsides.
-Shield’s passive is slick, neurons go brrrrr. One hand, FFC judging brain’s upset about how it’s already projectile-invulnerable and even low-damage attacks can still be tricky to overcome, doubling something as simple as a 5% attack means some characters almost couldn’t break through with their strongest attacks, and a 10% attack (a number he’s quite familiar with) is basically unstoppable in any practical/non-diamond-hard-read situation. On the other, I adore it fundamentally, adjust the numbers a little and this is a sweet upside.
-Enjoyed the tone shift of emphasizing the shield throw’s dependence on later info, “no it doesn’t do that, no it doesn’t do that either, nope can’t do that, he’s not Captain America you silly billy, oop here’s something kinda useful, just kidding it’s so limp even a giant Frame 6 sword slash can’t capitalize on it”, thumbs up emoji.
Odd specification about Neutral Special, I get if you make an exception in one place it’d only be natural to keep going, but feel like having it ignore the shield wouldn’t feel out of place. Also begs the question, could you buffer an ASAP un/semi-charged Flame Slash to skip the shield, or does the mere act of touching Neutral B without maximum charge result in Frame 1 shield warp?
jeez, nerfing the uncharged versions even more, how dare you
-Oh jeez I misread and thought this was Steve’s Minecart for a second, if only it was like this move. Such a funny tool that’s situationally amazing, a beautiful balance between a goofy niche and something you could get devastatingly creative with, yet something equally difficult to be mad at. Imagine the team strats, even just surprising opponents being antsy. I almost wish the shield kept going past ledges and it was a pure reaction test, like a way easier version of that Master Hand card platform attack.
How does the dash input to board the shield work, are you cancelling the kick into a unique animation, or is the FAF just lightning fast? Does the grab keep the two of you going until the ledge, and what happens there if so? Kicking the shield gets him off of it and lets you adjust the speed again (from a gameplay perspective it’s cool, but from a suspension of disbelief perspective, he kicks a shield and rides it fast across the stage, then kicks it again to slow it down)? Can you get on the shield midair?
Good techchase stuff though, tasty meat.
-11 frames is NOT reactable, but otherwise I like the brisk speed of it, either it fails and the game continues as usual, or you get a self-fulfilling double edged sword of bringing your opponent closer.
Would be funny if you kicked the opponent away, they stay prone on the shield deliberately, only for you to suddenly yoink them in.
How fast does the shield return to Chrome, roughly?
-A input, here we go. Can’t say anything about the Smashes, that’s a solid system for Necro following around though.
I’ll judge this better when we get to the downsides, though I’m worried about this character also getting puppet shenanigans on top of everything else. Probably just me though, probably, hopefully, potentially.
-22 frames isn’t that bad, it’s definitely nerfed by being Shield Special and thus ground-only, and it’s further nerfed by being time spent not charging Neutral Special, but it’s also far from a crippling penalty, if Trainer and PAM can do it in longer time, so can he.
The universal tradeoff that you have to be in base form to have Necro slowly regen health is decent, although I’ll have thoughts on it later.
For Armor, 50% isn’t a lot when the opponent can melt you, but noting that you didn’t mention it at higher%s, where it’s like swapping to Charizard without the downside of swapping to Charizard. I was expecting something like a speed penalty, weight is its own downside early on, but I’m not taking “it slightly counteracts his unique ability to ignore death occasionally” as a meaningful downside.
For Shield… not really a downside by itself. The 25HP paper-thin hurtbox that deletes your stage control and gives you extra endlag if you hit it, distracting new players with a worthless target and not really mattering to experienced players. Apart from the lack of healing over time, the real downside is the opportunity cost of picking the fun/stylish pick over Diet Giant Punch and, plus there’s not a downside to the shield gimmick buff. Especially after Armor, I fully expected another K. Rool belly armor thing where the buffed shield health results in Necro taking damage, confused why that’s not a thing.
Deeply worried what the Necro Smashes are going to be, if you felt the other two deserved such gentle slaps on the wrist, whereas Necro needs to be puppyguarded like a defenseless Luma. Pleasant discussion, though.
-I almost feel like you should have a Trainer/PAM-esq option on the character select screen to pick which Down B you want to start with, or at least toggle between two options: 1) start normal and spend as much time as an Olimar Pluck picking whenever you feel, or 2) start with Shield since it’s nearly a straight upgrade to normal and the only catch, at the beginning of a match at least, is you have to spend half a second to use the other ones.
To be fair, my apologies if these criticisms are unwarranted. Down Special disappoints me on more of a philosophical level than true execution, for another reader these concepts would be hype and make them want to play this character, and other than some numbers and personal stuff, I can’t meaningfully criticize a large chunk of this move. Ultimately, most I can say is I wish it was something else, I would’ve liked to hear more of a fluid stance-like system with each stance bringing debuffs of some kind, maybe each stance gives you a sidegrade of a different Special akin to Armor (some Up B and Side B variants would rock), maybe entering a state deactivates some of his passives, though none of that matters.
Respect the effort and vision though, biases and tastes aside. Risk/reward juggling different levels of upgrades across a match, choosing between a small buff that’s safe or a huge buff that’s vulnerable, slip up and you lose access to all of them for a hot minute, that’s an interesting direction to take.
Arctic Tern
Hyper_Ridley
BrazilianGuy
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