Reiga
He sold diddy for a switch
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Make Your Move 23; Moveset Contest! Top 50 posted! Congratulations everyone! 23 is dead; see you in 24 on Feb. 24th!
- Thread starter UserShadow7989
- Start date
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Katapultar
Smash Lord
I was not expecting another Dark Crystal set so soon! This one actually vibes with me more than Chamberlain for his greater emphasis on melee, and more utilising the natural terrain of the stage. His Specials all have a neat synergy with one another: blades bouncing off the Gobblers, countering either hitbox, that counter which definitely has Kimblee vibes and works with his down grab variant. Side Special is the only move I have real issue with at the moment, as did dilliam, but if you toned down on the flinching hits of the Gobblers it would definitely place this set higher than Chamberlain for me. Also, Up Special reminds me of Voreinclex's terrain climbing.
I must talk about the down input grab, because it is downright creative and I thought it was really awesome. Bonus points for working with the counter! Being able to apply a "Delayed" grab, whereby you get the grab when you reach the foe, is honestly quite cool and absolutely worthy of being on a Command Grab Special. Your grabs are actually one of my favourite parts of your set, they have that old innovation and show that there's still plenty of ways to get creative on grabs, pummels and throws beyond the usual orthodox execution. Vulture's Pummel being continueable past the grab was an enjoyable part of that set, for instance. Maybe one day we'll see an actual "time bomb" grab that deprives you of your grab when it's applied, or a Kupa grappler with Smash Throws you can charge even when the foe has escaped? There's tons of room to explore and it's all pretty inspiring, one of the big appeals of reading Kupa sets. I also quite enjoyed U-throw best out of all the throws.
The rest of the set didn't disappoint. One of my personal favourite moves was the U-Smash, not just the weapon throwing but the leap you do when you're weapon-less, and how the latter can potentially transition from the former. I almost think there's room to bring these two together and further enhance this already great input: for instance, maybe you could steer yourself sideways a little when grabbing the foe to move them into the falling weapon? (perhaps at the cost of dealing less damage/less frame advantage?) And maybe when you do that, the falling weapon applies its rising damage so you can potentially KO the foe very early? Using up a weapon or two on your Smashes would have been a great theme to share among them, and honestly you're not far off it when F-Smash is the only one that doesn't do it directly. While the melee here is good, if these weapon attacks could flow into the non-weapon versions in a meaningful way, it could enhance said melee to the point of potentially being great, perhaps on a level similar to Black Polnareff!
Down Special "rage" doesn't get a lot of talk beyond the Specials. This isn't a problem for the most part, but it could sell the move more if, say, you pointed out how early one of his finishers could kill under the rage. I also think skekMal would enjoy a typical powerhouse F-Smash in a similar vein to Master Xehanort, as he does have many tools to keep opponents locked like with his Gobblers, falling weapons, U-throw sword. Having a move that's just dead powerful when you have all of your weapons, maybe a weapon-less variant that has him move forwards like his current F-Smash, and he can pick up his weapons along the way? (that could be useful if they're all lying around, at the cost of having to commit to an attack) Something that could give him a huge reward for reading/successfully trapping the foe. Maybe he even impales the foe with his weapons ala U-throw when he hits? It's up to you though, current F-Smash is perfectly fine and does have the Power Dunk hitbox.
It's also interesting that he doesn't impale as much as you'd expect for a brutal villain; impaling and pulling your weapons out of the opponent could have been a really cool melee base, similar to Necrid's F-throw from MYM19, if not on this set then maybe a future one.
All and all, skekMal was a great read worthy of the Dark Crystals and my favourite modern Kupa set... for now! I reckon your melee will get better from here, which is saying something when this set already ranks pretty high for me. An excellent start to the contest, Kupa, I could see you easily surpassing your performance last contest if you keep going at this rate.
I must talk about the down input grab, because it is downright creative and I thought it was really awesome. Bonus points for working with the counter! Being able to apply a "Delayed" grab, whereby you get the grab when you reach the foe, is honestly quite cool and absolutely worthy of being on a Command Grab Special. Your grabs are actually one of my favourite parts of your set, they have that old innovation and show that there's still plenty of ways to get creative on grabs, pummels and throws beyond the usual orthodox execution. Vulture's Pummel being continueable past the grab was an enjoyable part of that set, for instance. Maybe one day we'll see an actual "time bomb" grab that deprives you of your grab when it's applied, or a Kupa grappler with Smash Throws you can charge even when the foe has escaped? There's tons of room to explore and it's all pretty inspiring, one of the big appeals of reading Kupa sets. I also quite enjoyed U-throw best out of all the throws.
The rest of the set didn't disappoint. One of my personal favourite moves was the U-Smash, not just the weapon throwing but the leap you do when you're weapon-less, and how the latter can potentially transition from the former. I almost think there's room to bring these two together and further enhance this already great input: for instance, maybe you could steer yourself sideways a little when grabbing the foe to move them into the falling weapon? (perhaps at the cost of dealing less damage/less frame advantage?) And maybe when you do that, the falling weapon applies its rising damage so you can potentially KO the foe very early? Using up a weapon or two on your Smashes would have been a great theme to share among them, and honestly you're not far off it when F-Smash is the only one that doesn't do it directly. While the melee here is good, if these weapon attacks could flow into the non-weapon versions in a meaningful way, it could enhance said melee to the point of potentially being great, perhaps on a level similar to Black Polnareff!
Down Special "rage" doesn't get a lot of talk beyond the Specials. This isn't a problem for the most part, but it could sell the move more if, say, you pointed out how early one of his finishers could kill under the rage. I also think skekMal would enjoy a typical powerhouse F-Smash in a similar vein to Master Xehanort, as he does have many tools to keep opponents locked like with his Gobblers, falling weapons, U-throw sword. Having a move that's just dead powerful when you have all of your weapons, maybe a weapon-less variant that has him move forwards like his current F-Smash, and he can pick up his weapons along the way? (that could be useful if they're all lying around, at the cost of having to commit to an attack) Something that could give him a huge reward for reading/successfully trapping the foe. Maybe he even impales the foe with his weapons ala U-throw when he hits? It's up to you though, current F-Smash is perfectly fine and does have the Power Dunk hitbox.
It's also interesting that he doesn't impale as much as you'd expect for a brutal villain; impaling and pulling your weapons out of the opponent could have been a really cool melee base, similar to Necrid's F-throw from MYM19, if not on this set then maybe a future one.
All and all, skekMal was a great read worthy of the Dark Crystals and my favourite modern Kupa set... for now! I reckon your melee will get better from here, which is saying something when this set already ranks pretty high for me. An excellent start to the contest, Kupa, I could see you easily surpassing your performance last contest if you keep going at this rate.
Slavic
Ask not the sparrow how the eagle soars
Last edited:
dilliam
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2019
- Messages
- 24
1/10 only because my dad could still beat him up
This set’s a fun one. I like the possible sniping shenanigans on Hat Trick, it feels like you could really make your opponent’s day miserable with that move, especially with the varied delays and possible firing angles. I found Snowball Fight to be somewhat underwhelming, however, since it essentially boils down to a much faster and weaker version of Hat Trick. I feel like this could have been really built upon by adding some interactions with the snow banks, perhaps with him using up snow banks near him to throw multiple snowballs in quick succession without the usual damage decay. Speaking of snow banks, these are easily the highlight of this set. Given Bleak’s reliance on his neutral and side specials, a reliable cover option is welcome and works very well into his kit. It’s also a really fun trap, being able to stop opponents long enough for Bleak to come in with his normals. Knocking opponents into a snowbank only for their momentum to halt is also a really fun application, even more so when you factor in the fact that this affects Bleak too! There’s really not much to talk about in terms of his up special, it’s a fairly standard recovery move, save for its dual purpose as an escape method.
The smashes are really fun, with each of them being fairly unique in their uses and attributes. Forward smash being able to clear through Bleak’s snow banks could have some fun applications, in fact I could see it as being a powerful punish for opponents who get too close or try to destroy Bleak’s cover. Down smash is easily my favorite of the bunch, with lots of fun extra stuff tacked onto it, like the grab hitbox when the snowball is large enough or the extra interactions with the snowbanks. Up smash is also very interesting with its added stage control via loose snow. I do enjoy how well it compliments the snow banks by using them to create a large temporary wall.
Standards and aerials are quite standard fare for heavyweights, with a fairly large focus being on slow moves with some nasty kill potential. There are some highlights here however. Forward tilt is one of those, being a really creative take on the slow kill move by adding extra applications with his neutral special. Down air is also a fun one, with a falling snowball identical to his down smash opening up for some fun shenanigans.
Grab game is really fun thanks to the back throw. Cargo throws are always a treat, and the versatility and unique presentation make this one in particular a treat. Back throw is also really fun, and it feels like it could be a huge threat near the ledge. Up throw is also pretty fun, being a nice setup into various aerial and ground shenanigans. Overall this grab game is really great, and it’s impressive you managed to do this well with one of the most difficult parts of a set to make unique.
Overall my only real gripe with Bleak is that he doesn’t interact with the snow banks as much as he could. For what feels like a major focus of his set with some really creative and fun applications, I feel like more could be done with it, especially within the realm of his normals and throws. Outside of that, however, is a really fun heavyweight villain set that really has me looking forward to more Donkey Kong sets by you in the future.
The smashes are really fun, with each of them being fairly unique in their uses and attributes. Forward smash being able to clear through Bleak’s snow banks could have some fun applications, in fact I could see it as being a powerful punish for opponents who get too close or try to destroy Bleak’s cover. Down smash is easily my favorite of the bunch, with lots of fun extra stuff tacked onto it, like the grab hitbox when the snowball is large enough or the extra interactions with the snowbanks. Up smash is also very interesting with its added stage control via loose snow. I do enjoy how well it compliments the snow banks by using them to create a large temporary wall.
Standards and aerials are quite standard fare for heavyweights, with a fairly large focus being on slow moves with some nasty kill potential. There are some highlights here however. Forward tilt is one of those, being a really creative take on the slow kill move by adding extra applications with his neutral special. Down air is also a fun one, with a falling snowball identical to his down smash opening up for some fun shenanigans.
Grab game is really fun thanks to the back throw. Cargo throws are always a treat, and the versatility and unique presentation make this one in particular a treat. Back throw is also really fun, and it feels like it could be a huge threat near the ledge. Up throw is also pretty fun, being a nice setup into various aerial and ground shenanigans. Overall this grab game is really great, and it’s impressive you managed to do this well with one of the most difficult parts of a set to make unique.
Overall my only real gripe with Bleak is that he doesn’t interact with the snow banks as much as he could. For what feels like a major focus of his set with some really creative and fun applications, I feel like more could be done with it, especially within the realm of his normals and throws. Outside of that, however, is a really fun heavyweight villain set that really has me looking forward to more Donkey Kong sets by you in the future.
FrozenRoy
Smash Lord
A note about my star rankings: The descriptions are just to give you an idea about what it might contain and shouldn't be considered gospel truth that all sets within have all elements of it. Mostly, consider what the numbers mean. 10 is best, 0 is worst, 5 is average, 6 above average etc
- 10 Stars (3 Ranked): The coveted position at the top of my rankings, given to my favorite sets of the contest, the "best" tiers! 10 star represents the best movesets, a blend of strong playstyle, excellent execution, cool concepts and top notch characterization. Often times, the difference between a 10 star or a 9 star is a personal feeling in finding something truly exceptional, or a perfect blend of all of a moveset's parts. On average, about one 10 star is given out each contest, but as many as three (MYM15/MYM21) have been given out and one contest (MYM19) lacked any. So there's no hard limits here! Take the napkin first and reach for the top!
- 9 Stars (7 Ranked): A step below 10 star is 9 star, these sets still represent some of the best that Make Your Move has to offer, and thus hit the "top" tier. The qualities of these sets are pretty close to a 10 star. They have tight knit and strong playstyles, they have TAS-level execution and so on, but they have just a few too many problems to get higher, such as a bit too much balance worry, perhaps lackluster character or just simply not quite having as much "exceptional" factor. 9 star sets will almost always find their way into my Super Vote List: If 9 stars end up not making it on, you know we have a truly wonderous contest going on!
- 8 Stars (7 Ranked): The "Great" tier of sets that rests below the highest tiers, these usually have a more acutely placable issue such as a weak concept, iffy execution at some parts (perhaps even an entire input section) or weak characterization but placed along a rest of the set that is strong enough to make up for it and still get it high. Or, alternately, they may be sets which are fairly strong in all areas but have nothing jump out as extraordinary beyond great. Nonetheless, these are sets worthy of praise, the higher end 8s usually make up my RV+ or snag SVs.
- 7 Stars (11 Ranked): Seven star is where the "good" sets reside. They might not be the best sets ever, but that doesn't make them bad at all, contests and games thrive on having plenty of good sets! These tend to make up the bulk of my RV list, with particularly strong contests causing the bottom of 7 to drop into WV+ or so range. Sets can either be a mix of high highs and more average/low lows, most commonly a strong start that tapers off into a forgettable ending, or a consistent Good quality that just doesn't have enough to get higher. Sets with a lot of good and a lot of bad will also tend to end up in 6 and 5.
- 6 Stars (4 Ranked): "Above average" is 6 star, which makes up the bulk of my WV list (and sometimes low RV) for most of my votelists. They don't exactly speak to me much, but they have enough solid and enjoyable traits to feel stronger than your average set, so they're definitely still worth your time.
- 5 Stars (3 Ranked): Five stars is "average". It's hard to describe average, but that's what it is, something in the middle that I don't find especially good or bad, such as a moveset with a little good and a little bad, a general moveset that doesn't do anything offensive, or something with such large drops between good and bad that I can't get behind it either way. These sets are the last of sets that get votes from me, snagging WVs but being the first to drop off as more sets get on.
- 4 Stars (2 Ranked): Four stars are the "below average" mark. These sets aren't terribly bad or anything, but they've gotten to the point I dislike more than I like, either due to a noticeable failing in one or more areas without enough good to back up or just a general sense of underperformance across the entire set. It isn't uncommon to find solid concepts in these sets, though!
- 3 Stars (8 Ranked): Three stars is when we get into "bad". These movesets actively detract from me a good deal and begin to lose redeeming elements, and often contain multiple large issues, such as terrible execution, lacking playstyle and bland or bad characterization, but they aren't repungant enough to be truly awful. Don't be too upset, though, if you get a set this low or lower: Everyone, including myself, makes some stinkers after all!
- 2 Stars (4 Ranked): When we get to Two Star, we go to "awful", sets that have numerous issues that either run deep and so are more difficult to fix or are so overwhelming they smother a set even if there's other parts I like. Sets with essentially no details, such as one sentence moves for the entire set, end up either here, 1 or 3 star usually. Sets here aren't quite horrible enough for lower categories (think of it like a nega-8 star) but are getting fairly bad.
- 1 Star (2 Ranked): One star is like the dark, negative version of a 9 star. Where 9 star zigs into an incredible playstyle, a 1 star zags into an incoherent one. When a 9 star puts across a great characterization, a 1 star makes the cute powerless schoolgirl into an evil monster with the morality of Hannibal Lecter. Don't worry, everyone makes mistakes...it is just this set is one of them! Also proud home to sets that do "nothing", like 1 sentence sets without damage percents or any other information.
- 0 Star (1 Ranked): Introduced in MYM22 is the 0 Star Ranking, which I'd considered adding before. It makes 5 star the perfect "average" rather than the 5.5 of a 1-10 ranking. Congrats, if you hit 0 star, you made a "meme"! These are sets that go beyond mere loathing entirely and enter a truly special pantheon of bad. Think sets like MYM13 Medic, MYM12 Etranger or MYM15 PC-98 Reimu, where a set fails on every possible level and beyond merely being bad. And if you're wondering yes, I have made sets I consider to be 0 star worthy, so don't think I'm immune to being this awful. On the plus side, 0 star sets often gain a lot of fame due to the status that makes them 0 star, so they're a successful legend in their own way.
---
Ranked Movesets
Number of MYM23 Sets Ranked: 52
"Lucky" Louise
**********
10/10
Mysterio
**********
10/10
Mami Tomoe
**********
10/10
Primordial Darkness
*********
9/10
Dragonmaid Chame
*********
9/10
Jeanne d'Arc (Alter)
*********
9/10
Wriggle Nightbug
*********
9/10
skekUng, the Garthim Master
*********
9/10
Hina Merrel
*********
9/10
Cap'n Cuttlefish
*********
9/10
Sekuna
********
8/10
Ayesha Altugle
********
8/10
Ernest Amano
********
8/10
Bleak
********
8/10
Hotaru Futaba
********
8/10
Amadeus Wolfgeist
********
8/10
Polterkitty
*******
7/10
Ditto
*******
7/10
Pennywise the Dancing Clown
*******
7/10
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger
*******
7/10
Il Blud
*******
7/10
Ochako Uraraka
*******
7/10
Prae Aerius
*******
7/10
Gnasty Gnorc
*******
7/10
Daisy
*******
7/10
skekMal, the Hunter
*******
7/10
Tomoyo Kanzaki
*******
7/10
Cyclohm
*******
7/10
Kiyohime
******
6/10
Robobot Armor
******
6/10
Fierce Pork Trooper
******
6/10
Giovanni Potage
******
6/10
The Chosen Undead
*****
5/10
Ganon
****
5/10
Captain Qwark
*****
5/10
Carrot
****
4/10
Phoenix
****
4/10
Broly
***
3/10
Cooking Mama
***
3/10
Judgement
***
3/10
Marauder
***
3/10
Fujiwara no Mokou
***
3/10
Snom
***
3/10
The Blight
***
3/10
Benrey
***
3/10
Cinderace
***
3/10
Han-Tyumi
**
2/10
Plague Knight
**
2/10
Heist Mark
**
2/10
Geo Cube
**
2/10
MUGEN Tirek
*
1/10
Iyami
*
1/10
Henry Stickmin
0/10
Star Rating Explanation
- 10 Stars (3 Ranked): The coveted position at the top of my rankings, given to my favorite sets of the contest, the "best" tiers! 10 star represents the best movesets, a blend of strong playstyle, excellent execution, cool concepts and top notch characterization. Often times, the difference between a 10 star or a 9 star is a personal feeling in finding something truly exceptional, or a perfect blend of all of a moveset's parts. On average, about one 10 star is given out each contest, but as many as three (MYM15/MYM21) have been given out and one contest (MYM19) lacked any. So there's no hard limits here! Take the napkin first and reach for the top!
- 9 Stars (7 Ranked): A step below 10 star is 9 star, these sets still represent some of the best that Make Your Move has to offer, and thus hit the "top" tier. The qualities of these sets are pretty close to a 10 star. They have tight knit and strong playstyles, they have TAS-level execution and so on, but they have just a few too many problems to get higher, such as a bit too much balance worry, perhaps lackluster character or just simply not quite having as much "exceptional" factor. 9 star sets will almost always find their way into my Super Vote List: If 9 stars end up not making it on, you know we have a truly wonderous contest going on!
- 8 Stars (7 Ranked): The "Great" tier of sets that rests below the highest tiers, these usually have a more acutely placable issue such as a weak concept, iffy execution at some parts (perhaps even an entire input section) or weak characterization but placed along a rest of the set that is strong enough to make up for it and still get it high. Or, alternately, they may be sets which are fairly strong in all areas but have nothing jump out as extraordinary beyond great. Nonetheless, these are sets worthy of praise, the higher end 8s usually make up my RV+ or snag SVs.
- 7 Stars (11 Ranked): Seven star is where the "good" sets reside. They might not be the best sets ever, but that doesn't make them bad at all, contests and games thrive on having plenty of good sets! These tend to make up the bulk of my RV list, with particularly strong contests causing the bottom of 7 to drop into WV+ or so range. Sets can either be a mix of high highs and more average/low lows, most commonly a strong start that tapers off into a forgettable ending, or a consistent Good quality that just doesn't have enough to get higher. Sets with a lot of good and a lot of bad will also tend to end up in 6 and 5.
- 6 Stars (4 Ranked): "Above average" is 6 star, which makes up the bulk of my WV list (and sometimes low RV) for most of my votelists. They don't exactly speak to me much, but they have enough solid and enjoyable traits to feel stronger than your average set, so they're definitely still worth your time.
- 5 Stars (3 Ranked): Five stars is "average". It's hard to describe average, but that's what it is, something in the middle that I don't find especially good or bad, such as a moveset with a little good and a little bad, a general moveset that doesn't do anything offensive, or something with such large drops between good and bad that I can't get behind it either way. These sets are the last of sets that get votes from me, snagging WVs but being the first to drop off as more sets get on.
- 4 Stars (2 Ranked): Four stars are the "below average" mark. These sets aren't terribly bad or anything, but they've gotten to the point I dislike more than I like, either due to a noticeable failing in one or more areas without enough good to back up or just a general sense of underperformance across the entire set. It isn't uncommon to find solid concepts in these sets, though!
- 3 Stars (8 Ranked): Three stars is when we get into "bad". These movesets actively detract from me a good deal and begin to lose redeeming elements, and often contain multiple large issues, such as terrible execution, lacking playstyle and bland or bad characterization, but they aren't repungant enough to be truly awful. Don't be too upset, though, if you get a set this low or lower: Everyone, including myself, makes some stinkers after all!
- 2 Stars (4 Ranked): When we get to Two Star, we go to "awful", sets that have numerous issues that either run deep and so are more difficult to fix or are so overwhelming they smother a set even if there's other parts I like. Sets with essentially no details, such as one sentence moves for the entire set, end up either here, 1 or 3 star usually. Sets here aren't quite horrible enough for lower categories (think of it like a nega-8 star) but are getting fairly bad.
- 1 Star (2 Ranked): One star is like the dark, negative version of a 9 star. Where 9 star zigs into an incredible playstyle, a 1 star zags into an incoherent one. When a 9 star puts across a great characterization, a 1 star makes the cute powerless schoolgirl into an evil monster with the morality of Hannibal Lecter. Don't worry, everyone makes mistakes...it is just this set is one of them! Also proud home to sets that do "nothing", like 1 sentence sets without damage percents or any other information.
- 0 Star (1 Ranked): Introduced in MYM22 is the 0 Star Ranking, which I'd considered adding before. It makes 5 star the perfect "average" rather than the 5.5 of a 1-10 ranking. Congrats, if you hit 0 star, you made a "meme"! These are sets that go beyond mere loathing entirely and enter a truly special pantheon of bad. Think sets like MYM13 Medic, MYM12 Etranger or MYM15 PC-98 Reimu, where a set fails on every possible level and beyond merely being bad. And if you're wondering yes, I have made sets I consider to be 0 star worthy, so don't think I'm immune to being this awful. On the plus side, 0 star sets often gain a lot of fame due to the status that makes them 0 star, so they're a successful legend in their own way.
---
Ranked Movesets
Number of MYM23 Sets Ranked: 52
"Lucky" Louise
**********
10/10
Mysterio
**********
10/10
Mami Tomoe
**********
10/10
Primordial Darkness
*********
9/10
Dragonmaid Chame
*********
9/10
Jeanne d'Arc (Alter)
*********
9/10
Wriggle Nightbug
*********
9/10
skekUng, the Garthim Master
*********
9/10
Hina Merrel
*********
9/10
Cap'n Cuttlefish
*********
9/10
Sekuna
********
8/10
Ayesha Altugle
********
8/10
Ernest Amano
********
8/10
Bleak
********
8/10
Hotaru Futaba
********
8/10
Amadeus Wolfgeist
********
8/10
Polterkitty
*******
7/10
Ditto
*******
7/10
Pennywise the Dancing Clown
*******
7/10
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger
*******
7/10
Il Blud
*******
7/10
Ochako Uraraka
*******
7/10
Prae Aerius
*******
7/10
Gnasty Gnorc
*******
7/10
Daisy
*******
7/10
skekMal, the Hunter
*******
7/10
Tomoyo Kanzaki
*******
7/10
Cyclohm
*******
7/10
Kiyohime
******
6/10
Robobot Armor
******
6/10
Fierce Pork Trooper
******
6/10
Giovanni Potage
******
6/10
The Chosen Undead
*****
5/10
Ganon
****
5/10
Captain Qwark
*****
5/10
Carrot
****
4/10
Phoenix
****
4/10
Broly
***
3/10
Cooking Mama
***
3/10
Judgement
***
3/10
Marauder
***
3/10
Fujiwara no Mokou
***
3/10
Snom
***
3/10
The Blight
***
3/10
Benrey
***
3/10
Cinderace
***
3/10
Han-Tyumi
**
2/10
Plague Knight
**
2/10
Heist Mark
**
2/10
Geo Cube
**
2/10
MUGEN Tirek
*
1/10
Iyami
*
1/10
Henry Stickmin
0/10
Last edited:
FrozenRoy
Smash Lord
Voracious Praedator (Prae Aerius
JamietheAuraUser
and
Professor Lexicovermis
)
Of all the sets I expected early in MYM, a Jamie/Lex joint is hardly the first one I expected...really, Jamie, don't be such a stranger! Seeing you post sets is refreshing and your touch is quite evident all over the set in terms of the flavor and various ideas presented. I'd half expect to see a cute l'il fang get weaseled in!
I feel like the presented Specials are quite solid as a base, not overly intricate but making a solid base of pressure, I was actually pretty interested in Fairy Force being a mix of a projectile tool and a dash that Prae can't easily use defensively, you don't really see that combination often. The flight path is also a pretty swanky Up Special, amusing since apparently you two hadn't read Vulture yet but the move invariably reminded me of it, it's enough to send a tingle up your spine! The Down Special is the first spot in the set I was a bit unsure of, though. I do like the concept of the move, going full chef temporarily to cook up a healing item with a counter attached to it, it actually reminds me a good deal of Dragonmaid Tillroo who had a cooking counter attack as well. While Kupa seemed concerned this attack was too strong, I actually am worried that it feels underpowered. 90 frames of time is a lot for a character who could be firing off projectiles during this time and is not PARTICULARLY fast. More pertinently, I think the 12% self-damage is too high and I think it'd even be fine to remove the self damage entirely and just have it launch Prae. Or even cut it in half again for 6% self-damage. As-is, it feels like it is basically only useful for gimping recoveries.
While I appreciate that the set doesn't robotically link together, I did also think the set could roll it all together better like a more complete painting. In particular while Prae has a multitude of unique tools to create pressure, I felt like her game once she actually got that pressure was a bit on the weak side, particularly with moves like Up Tilt which feel like they create a cool grounded pressure situation but Prae doesn't have much to do with her grounded pressure. I would personally make Forward Tilt a faster move, moreso on start-up, to give Prae a more dangerous aggressive ability after moves like Forward Tilt so she doesn't just leave foes looking ashen when she gets advantage. I'll also say I felt that her Neutral Aerial felt a bit awkward with her playstyle and may have been better suited as another melee attack. Perhaps you could doctor in a move using her cool starlight blade or something so she doesn't get dealt a dead hand? I'll also note here a move I quite liked, which was the Back Aerial which felt like a nice take on a "BAirmerang" and kinda inventive.
Something else I will note is I would make Up Aerial's spike a sweetspot and give the attack an upwards striking, juggling hitbox. Between Prae's AERIAL zoning, her multiple jumps and the way her gameplan works I think she would really appreciate a way to "ladder" foes up before spiking them down which feels like a useful gameplay loop AND like it would fit Prae's character (as odd as that might sound). You wouldn't want to plague foes all night long but I don't think it would be overbearing.
I know you mentioned you were unsure of Up Throw's flavor, but I thought it was fine. I will say I think it might be fun if Prae was doing something while the flower was chewing the foe, maybe a small giggle or an "innocent smile" like someone gets when they're VERY guilty. I'd say Forward Aerial is another somewhat standout move for how it works into her overall gameplan, but I do think she relies on it a bit too hard and improving the F-Tilt or changing the NAir would help out. If the NAir could take advantage of foes jumping to go over Prae's Down Tilt that'd also be good. Some other moves I enjoyed were Down Aerial (basic but effective in her gameplan), Forward Smash (I like the way it plays around with parry timing and her Neutral Special pressure) and Down Tilt (I like how the little hop adds to the move and how its ground coverage weaves into Prae's set).
Overall, Prae is an enjoyable set that will hopefully help push Jamie forward and get him to take some fresh air to make more sets. It has some cool ideas, but the disjointed nature of them somewhat harms the overall product and keeps it from going too high, plus while she had a lot of strong moves she didn't quite ultra stand out on a ton of them. It was certainly enough to keep me enthralled, though. Now then, it is 7:26 AM, so I shouldn't be too much of a (9) and go to bed before I start hallucinating this is MYM12 again and I'm on Windows XP.
JamietheAuraUser
and
Professor Lexicovermis
)Of all the sets I expected early in MYM, a Jamie/Lex joint is hardly the first one I expected...really, Jamie, don't be such a stranger! Seeing you post sets is refreshing and your touch is quite evident all over the set in terms of the flavor and various ideas presented. I'd half expect to see a cute l'il fang get weaseled in!
I feel like the presented Specials are quite solid as a base, not overly intricate but making a solid base of pressure, I was actually pretty interested in Fairy Force being a mix of a projectile tool and a dash that Prae can't easily use defensively, you don't really see that combination often. The flight path is also a pretty swanky Up Special, amusing since apparently you two hadn't read Vulture yet but the move invariably reminded me of it, it's enough to send a tingle up your spine! The Down Special is the first spot in the set I was a bit unsure of, though. I do like the concept of the move, going full chef temporarily to cook up a healing item with a counter attached to it, it actually reminds me a good deal of Dragonmaid Tillroo who had a cooking counter attack as well. While Kupa seemed concerned this attack was too strong, I actually am worried that it feels underpowered. 90 frames of time is a lot for a character who could be firing off projectiles during this time and is not PARTICULARLY fast. More pertinently, I think the 12% self-damage is too high and I think it'd even be fine to remove the self damage entirely and just have it launch Prae. Or even cut it in half again for 6% self-damage. As-is, it feels like it is basically only useful for gimping recoveries.
While I appreciate that the set doesn't robotically link together, I did also think the set could roll it all together better like a more complete painting. In particular while Prae has a multitude of unique tools to create pressure, I felt like her game once she actually got that pressure was a bit on the weak side, particularly with moves like Up Tilt which feel like they create a cool grounded pressure situation but Prae doesn't have much to do with her grounded pressure. I would personally make Forward Tilt a faster move, moreso on start-up, to give Prae a more dangerous aggressive ability after moves like Forward Tilt so she doesn't just leave foes looking ashen when she gets advantage. I'll also say I felt that her Neutral Aerial felt a bit awkward with her playstyle and may have been better suited as another melee attack. Perhaps you could doctor in a move using her cool starlight blade or something so she doesn't get dealt a dead hand? I'll also note here a move I quite liked, which was the Back Aerial which felt like a nice take on a "BAirmerang" and kinda inventive.
Something else I will note is I would make Up Aerial's spike a sweetspot and give the attack an upwards striking, juggling hitbox. Between Prae's AERIAL zoning, her multiple jumps and the way her gameplan works I think she would really appreciate a way to "ladder" foes up before spiking them down which feels like a useful gameplay loop AND like it would fit Prae's character (as odd as that might sound). You wouldn't want to plague foes all night long but I don't think it would be overbearing.
I know you mentioned you were unsure of Up Throw's flavor, but I thought it was fine. I will say I think it might be fun if Prae was doing something while the flower was chewing the foe, maybe a small giggle or an "innocent smile" like someone gets when they're VERY guilty. I'd say Forward Aerial is another somewhat standout move for how it works into her overall gameplan, but I do think she relies on it a bit too hard and improving the F-Tilt or changing the NAir would help out. If the NAir could take advantage of foes jumping to go over Prae's Down Tilt that'd also be good. Some other moves I enjoyed were Down Aerial (basic but effective in her gameplan), Forward Smash (I like the way it plays around with parry timing and her Neutral Special pressure) and Down Tilt (I like how the little hop adds to the move and how its ground coverage weaves into Prae's set).
Overall, Prae is an enjoyable set that will hopefully help push Jamie forward and get him to take some fresh air to make more sets. It has some cool ideas, but the disjointed nature of them somewhat harms the overall product and keeps it from going too high, plus while she had a lot of strong moves she didn't quite ultra stand out on a ton of them. It was certainly enough to keep me enthralled, though. Now then, it is 7:26 AM, so I shouldn't be too much of a (9) and go to bed before I start hallucinating this is MYM12 again and I'm on Windows XP.
Slavic
Ask not the sparrow how the eagle soars
Robobot Armor by
bubbyboytoo
is the first set I've read all the way through for MYM23, and there are certainly worse ways to start a contest off (Sandshrew was my first read set last contest lmao). I actually think Robobot Armor is the perfect character choice for a multi-power set like this, the described animations and the robotic components of the armor make it a lot more reasonable for Kirby to swap between all these different powers seamlessly and imo is at no point tacky. As for the moveset itself, there are some really good individual moves in it, and actually overall I would say most of the moves are really strong in a vacuum. The Specials and Smashes are both really well detailed, and the set even keeps it up through the tilts. Some of my more favorite moves throughout the set are the USpec, FSmash and USmash, and DTilt. There's even a good sense of gameplay through the set with detailed analysis of Robobot's potential combos and stage control.
However, while I think I like the set more than FA, I'd mirror what he posted in the chat about there not being a strong core to Robobot aside from general stage control. Because of this, the set stands fine on its own but misses a few things that could serve to bind the moves together stronger. I know you kept to just moves from the game but sometimes it can be really good for a moveset to toss in some original content to glue everything together. For instance, with all this stage control Robobot having access to some sort of mobility limiter aside from DAir's pitfall would make it immediately more threatening. Off the top of my head a fully charged Zig Zap paralyzing or possibly stunning a foe (or maybe the reverse, locking foes down uncharged and becoming a kill move when charged) would instantly give Robobot a more direct connection to stage control, able to pressure foes after throwing down a DSmash to light the stage on fire. Make it so it's a more long range option, leaving Robobot to rely on tools like Whirling Saw and FSmash to deal with foes up close without wasting the stage set up. Another thought I had reading was giving DSmash the ability to be angled, so you can throw out fire on both sides that lasts 3 seconds or on one side to have it stick around for even longer.
I'm not saying that you should necessarily throw all these into the set blindly just because I said so, but since the set was enjoyable to read I want to give some light into the general thought process that you could use to give a stronger centerpiece to Robobot and future sets (which I know you're fully capable with after Zeraora) without having to break out of the character's canon abilities. Just having one or two moves that tie more heavily into the main gameplay of the character can really help steer a set into a more fun gameplan to read. Now moves aren't just notable for combos or kills, but instead for setting up for The Big Mechanic, or setting up for a combo into The Big Mechanic. Overall I did enjoy Robobot a good bit, I just see some areas that can definitely be learned from (or even edited in the set if you're feeling motivated to).
bubbyboytoo
is the first set I've read all the way through for MYM23, and there are certainly worse ways to start a contest off (Sandshrew was my first read set last contest lmao). I actually think Robobot Armor is the perfect character choice for a multi-power set like this, the described animations and the robotic components of the armor make it a lot more reasonable for Kirby to swap between all these different powers seamlessly and imo is at no point tacky. As for the moveset itself, there are some really good individual moves in it, and actually overall I would say most of the moves are really strong in a vacuum. The Specials and Smashes are both really well detailed, and the set even keeps it up through the tilts. Some of my more favorite moves throughout the set are the USpec, FSmash and USmash, and DTilt. There's even a good sense of gameplay through the set with detailed analysis of Robobot's potential combos and stage control.However, while I think I like the set more than FA, I'd mirror what he posted in the chat about there not being a strong core to Robobot aside from general stage control. Because of this, the set stands fine on its own but misses a few things that could serve to bind the moves together stronger. I know you kept to just moves from the game but sometimes it can be really good for a moveset to toss in some original content to glue everything together. For instance, with all this stage control Robobot having access to some sort of mobility limiter aside from DAir's pitfall would make it immediately more threatening. Off the top of my head a fully charged Zig Zap paralyzing or possibly stunning a foe (or maybe the reverse, locking foes down uncharged and becoming a kill move when charged) would instantly give Robobot a more direct connection to stage control, able to pressure foes after throwing down a DSmash to light the stage on fire. Make it so it's a more long range option, leaving Robobot to rely on tools like Whirling Saw and FSmash to deal with foes up close without wasting the stage set up. Another thought I had reading was giving DSmash the ability to be angled, so you can throw out fire on both sides that lasts 3 seconds or on one side to have it stick around for even longer.
I'm not saying that you should necessarily throw all these into the set blindly just because I said so, but since the set was enjoyable to read I want to give some light into the general thought process that you could use to give a stronger centerpiece to Robobot and future sets (which I know you're fully capable with after Zeraora) without having to break out of the character's canon abilities. Just having one or two moves that tie more heavily into the main gameplay of the character can really help steer a set into a more fun gameplan to read. Now moves aren't just notable for combos or kills, but instead for setting up for The Big Mechanic, or setting up for a combo into The Big Mechanic. Overall I did enjoy Robobot a good bit, I just see some areas that can definitely be learned from (or even edited in the set if you're feeling motivated to).
Fierce Pork Trooper by
Reiga
is a welcome addition to the contest, not only because it means the return of more consistent Reiga sets (missed you!) but also it does some fun things within its walls. Porky here is a berserking character who loves to tank damage as he chases foes around, and honestly sets built around letting a character power through more pain than the average character are a treat for me to read. The set starts off with a really fun move that I want to see experimented with conceptually in more sets, because the ability to toggle SF facing the opponent at all times with increased speed towards them is really unique for a lock on mechanic. Having the dash turn to a passive hitbox is a great cherry on top, too. I mentioned this in chat but the writing here is also very fun, especially on inputs like the Pork Bean, that make this mook really stand out. Speaking of, the Pork Bean is interesting on its own for a heavyweight but the play it gets off intentionally exploding to launch FPT up to recover or letting the bean get struck by lightning to imitate his game's protagonist adds a lot.
Speaking of lightning, I've talked in the chat about how I don't think the Thunder Tower needs to be destroyed after use. The tower takes 3 seconds to fire, so having to wait 6 seconds for an admittedly strong attack to come out again doesn't feel like a necessary limiter. Additionally, Trooper takes damage when struck, a not-insignificant amount, so things like holding foes through a grab or USpec to hit this strong move don't break the balance on having the tower linger. If you were still concerned about balance, you could limit the location of attack based on where the Tower is, so Trooper has to pressure foes into the danger zone (something he definitely could do). While I don't think the standards are bland as there is a lot of character and substance like the tipper on his horns, I also think that giving Porker a buff to some of his attacks by getting struck with his own lightning would be a fun addition. Incorporated into changing how his passive Piggy Nose dash attack works, as an example, would just add a lot to the later moveset and tie into this brute force reckless moveset. Like I said, the moves after the Specials aren't snooze-fests, but a good number of them do feel like they're obligatorily there rather than weaving meaningfully with the set. I think having more standards interact with either the Piggy Nose or with what I suggested and letting FPT power through his own lightning bolt to beef his attacks even further would help with that.
I like Pork Trooper a lot better than Damo (no offense to Damo), and I think it's a good return to MYM. Hopefully the commentary here will help Pork Trooper develop into a more elite set, and just be a useful comment for helping shake the dust off for your return (we're getting an old MYMer back every contest it seems!) It's good to have you back in the community, especially bringing back some of the more bizarre sets like FPT that you're just great at writing character into.
Reiga
is a welcome addition to the contest, not only because it means the return of more consistent Reiga sets (missed you!) but also it does some fun things within its walls. Porky here is a berserking character who loves to tank damage as he chases foes around, and honestly sets built around letting a character power through more pain than the average character are a treat for me to read. The set starts off with a really fun move that I want to see experimented with conceptually in more sets, because the ability to toggle SF facing the opponent at all times with increased speed towards them is really unique for a lock on mechanic. Having the dash turn to a passive hitbox is a great cherry on top, too. I mentioned this in chat but the writing here is also very fun, especially on inputs like the Pork Bean, that make this mook really stand out. Speaking of, the Pork Bean is interesting on its own for a heavyweight but the play it gets off intentionally exploding to launch FPT up to recover or letting the bean get struck by lightning to imitate his game's protagonist adds a lot.Speaking of lightning, I've talked in the chat about how I don't think the Thunder Tower needs to be destroyed after use. The tower takes 3 seconds to fire, so having to wait 6 seconds for an admittedly strong attack to come out again doesn't feel like a necessary limiter. Additionally, Trooper takes damage when struck, a not-insignificant amount, so things like holding foes through a grab or USpec to hit this strong move don't break the balance on having the tower linger. If you were still concerned about balance, you could limit the location of attack based on where the Tower is, so Trooper has to pressure foes into the danger zone (something he definitely could do). While I don't think the standards are bland as there is a lot of character and substance like the tipper on his horns, I also think that giving Porker a buff to some of his attacks by getting struck with his own lightning would be a fun addition. Incorporated into changing how his passive Piggy Nose dash attack works, as an example, would just add a lot to the later moveset and tie into this brute force reckless moveset. Like I said, the moves after the Specials aren't snooze-fests, but a good number of them do feel like they're obligatorily there rather than weaving meaningfully with the set. I think having more standards interact with either the Piggy Nose or with what I suggested and letting FPT power through his own lightning bolt to beef his attacks even further would help with that.
I like Pork Trooper a lot better than Damo (no offense to Damo), and I think it's a good return to MYM. Hopefully the commentary here will help Pork Trooper develop into a more elite set, and just be a useful comment for helping shake the dust off for your return (we're getting an old MYMer back every contest it seems!) It's good to have you back in the community, especially bringing back some of the more bizarre sets like FPT that you're just great at writing character into.
plague126
posts their third set with the charismatic Giovanni! Immediately off the bat it's clear that this is a significant step up set-wise from Wobbler and Ethan. Rather than a collection of, for lack of a better term, references with hitboxes, Giovanni strives to make a cohesive playstyle while still capturing the personality of his character. Frankly it feels like Giovanni was made by a different person, so clearly the amount of reading you've done and the activity in chat have been beneficial to your set-making. Giovanni's main overarching mechanic is his Lucky 13 ability, which is similar to a mechanic I've been working with on a current set, so here I think I have some broad advice. Having a lot of weak, faster options is really useful for racking up the counter reliably, the problem being that there's inconsistency on move speed being described. A great example is DAir, which is both extremely powerful, 22% with a spike, but also intended to raise Giovanni's counter which would be hard to do for free with a heavy, slow attack. A good way to balance this would be by making the move weak and fast on hits 1-12, but becoming a powerful, slow annihilator on the 13th hit. I wouldn't say that you should go through and make every move like that, but it would be a strong boost to the set to have some of those context-sensitive additions.I know that NSpec soup- er, lava (acid?) has already been edited, but I might even take it a step further and have the tapped form deal weak trapping hits instead of a flinchless spammable move. Also, the tapped projectile should be a bit weaker in damage than 12%, and as Reiga has pointed out in his comment, some other moves should be a bit weaker (FThrow is probably the biggest offender and I mentioned DAir earlier). I know you've already mentioned in chat about lowering damage numbers so I just want to reiterate. In terms of the overall picture of the set, it would be cool to combine the Lucky 13 mechanic with Giovanni's other abilities. Having weak multi-hit attacks I mentioned already with NSpec but having a few of those sprinkled throughout the set would add some variety to Potage's standard game. Combine that with the fact that Lucky 13 boosts the power of attack, it would definitely be feasible to have those same weak attacks designed to build the 13 hits up become actually powerful moves instead of just number-boosters.
One thing that's important to bring up is in the Grab Game utilizing the minions. This is coming from a place where I did something very similar last contest with my PaniK set but edited out. The actual throws check out fine but the interactions with the minions can be tricky for both gameplay and the reading experience. Having the ability to grab minions can be detrimental in close-quarters, as Giovanni might grab Flamethrower instead of a foe and get punished hard. It seems like a good way to bulk up the gameplay of a grab game but it can jarring to read unless the throws function very similar on both opponents and minions. Giovanni is someone who cares about his minions so the supporting of them fits in the set, but if you were able to put in as part of the minion summoning input it would flow a lot better with the rest of the set and make it a generally more reliable way to use the move.
I put a lot of criticisms in here but you really have done an impressive job between contests. This is a fun and memorable set that actually feels like a set I would have have posted back in 16 or 17 and have been proud of. My main criticisms are either related to numbers and detailing (though 'needing more detail' is such a generic criticism that can be applied to a goof 60%-70% of movesets) and how the concepts are used. The actual concepts you have for Giovanni are great, a rare 'villain' set that cares for his minions, the Lucky 13 translates well to a fighting game format, and you've given Giovanni plenty of character throughout all the moves that you convinced me to binge it tonight (and delaying this comment). In short, please take what I said to heart, especially since you plan on making edits, but also don't think I'm not appreciating the work you've put into the set because I enjoyed reading it.
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ROBOBOT ARMOR:
To preface my comment, I apologize it took until just recently for people to give this set a read. No one is in the wrong perusing sets in their own order, or at their own pacing, but you're right in that in an ideal world, folks would spread the wealth a bit more as far as the authors whose sets get read on a faster timetable (and Lex is right, no MYMer, no matter how old or new, is "objectively" more important as far as reading). In any case, I do feel as though Robobot Armor represents a step up from Zeraora in terms of interesting specials, which I saw as this set's highlight overall. There's good variety in what R. Armor has at its disposal as far as zoning tools, with the different charge/bouncing levels of the Zig Zaps, the mobility option for shooting the buzzsaws, the arc trajectory option for getting the Boomsteppers on platforms, plus D-Smash and U-Smash as more lingering secondary hitbox tools. I also agree with Slavic in that, as a multi-purpose mech, it's more fitting for R. Armor to whip out different weapons extensions and transform for different moves, compared to something less organic/more "magic syndrome" esque, like the Powers Kirbies of yore FA mentioned. You definitely deserve credit for the myriad of great GIFs through to convey each move, they certainly were a helpful supplement in instances where the transformative nature of some standards would've otherwise been tough for me to wrap my head around.
Where I feel Zeraora has the edge among your sets by comparison, though, is in its more novel playstyle, integrated throughout its moveset with the static and its associated buffs. R. Armor is a serviceable heavyweight zoning character insofar as it meets the benchmarks of that genre, achieving what it set out to be as a new flavor within that archetype, but without advancing it in any real way. I don't know that this was the character for which to demand some sort of game-changing overarching mechanic, but a few more distinct projectile patterns or minion behaviors, or else standards that flowed more intriguingly into them - as in, specific combos or KO setups that can happen, beyond just the projectiles making it easier for most any move to land as a follow-up - I think would serve you well in your future works. Maybe some more standout move properties here and there could be good, too - moves that work well with jab lock combos, maybe, or big bulky robot moves with trample priority as a perk - though the level of detail you have at least is good (encompassing range, multiple hitboxes, etc.). I hope this is helpful as far as guidance as you continue in your MYM development, because R. Armor represents a good foundation for a setwriter at your stage, it's really now just a matter of time and continued effort before you flourish further.
PRAE AERIUS:
Speaking of distinct projectile behaviors, Prae's clearly got no shortage. Beyond the projectiles and ranged hitboxes themselves, I like the meta playstyle here of keeping the foe distracted to where less obvious machinations, like the Neutral Special crosshair or F-Smash pixie dust circle, might go unnoticed. It's not something that takes up too much real estate in the context of the set, nor should it (with the danger being, an attentive or pro player could effectively neuter the set's viability once they learn to ID the cues), but it definitely adds to the flavor. The projectiles themselves are good in a vacuum but what I enjoy most is Prae's unique ways for getting them in play. She doesn't just rain down homing stars, for instance, but must first lock a crosshair onto a target and then wait five seconds. She's got the three Side Special projectiles she can get good mileage out of, but at the cost of having to soar forward in the process (which in and of itself can lead to some neat setups, like the confirm with U-Air into bomb). That, in combination with the Vulture-adjacent Up Special letting Prae weave her way in and around her borderline bullet hell really sets apart her game plans in a way I'm quite fond of.
As far as concerns, I alluded to my hangups with Down Special in chat, but to unpack that further, I don't see 90 frames as that long of a commitment for healing 10% a pop (as a comparison, Warlock Punch is 118 frames). It's not as big a deal as it would be on a heavier character, but given Prae's mobility (multiple jumps, insanely good air movement, a darting Side Special for getting breathing room), plus the various projectiles she can use to keep foes occupied, the end result I'm envisioning involves Prae irritatingly fleeing and downing smoothies to heal on the regular, or depending on her victim, getting a guaranteed 10% or 20% healed every time they're offstage (if she sits onstage and heals instead of pursuing). I do agree with FRoy that 12% and knockback upon an actual successful counter does veer in the direction of underpowered, though. Some sort of "staling" on how much Prae can heal with repeated Down Specials in a given timeframe, or comparable balancing measure, would resolve a lot of my concern in this regard, as would lowering how much self-damage she takes or giving her just one or both of damage/knockback on a successful counter. Beyond that, I don't have any substantive complaints with Prae, she's definitely well put-together (other highlight moves for me include the armored D-Smash, D-Throw as far as letting her target a foe from the air during get-up and the needling D-Tilt) and my current favorite set of MYM23.
To preface my comment, I apologize it took until just recently for people to give this set a read. No one is in the wrong perusing sets in their own order, or at their own pacing, but you're right in that in an ideal world, folks would spread the wealth a bit more as far as the authors whose sets get read on a faster timetable (and Lex is right, no MYMer, no matter how old or new, is "objectively" more important as far as reading). In any case, I do feel as though Robobot Armor represents a step up from Zeraora in terms of interesting specials, which I saw as this set's highlight overall. There's good variety in what R. Armor has at its disposal as far as zoning tools, with the different charge/bouncing levels of the Zig Zaps, the mobility option for shooting the buzzsaws, the arc trajectory option for getting the Boomsteppers on platforms, plus D-Smash and U-Smash as more lingering secondary hitbox tools. I also agree with Slavic in that, as a multi-purpose mech, it's more fitting for R. Armor to whip out different weapons extensions and transform for different moves, compared to something less organic/more "magic syndrome" esque, like the Powers Kirbies of yore FA mentioned. You definitely deserve credit for the myriad of great GIFs through to convey each move, they certainly were a helpful supplement in instances where the transformative nature of some standards would've otherwise been tough for me to wrap my head around.
Where I feel Zeraora has the edge among your sets by comparison, though, is in its more novel playstyle, integrated throughout its moveset with the static and its associated buffs. R. Armor is a serviceable heavyweight zoning character insofar as it meets the benchmarks of that genre, achieving what it set out to be as a new flavor within that archetype, but without advancing it in any real way. I don't know that this was the character for which to demand some sort of game-changing overarching mechanic, but a few more distinct projectile patterns or minion behaviors, or else standards that flowed more intriguingly into them - as in, specific combos or KO setups that can happen, beyond just the projectiles making it easier for most any move to land as a follow-up - I think would serve you well in your future works. Maybe some more standout move properties here and there could be good, too - moves that work well with jab lock combos, maybe, or big bulky robot moves with trample priority as a perk - though the level of detail you have at least is good (encompassing range, multiple hitboxes, etc.). I hope this is helpful as far as guidance as you continue in your MYM development, because R. Armor represents a good foundation for a setwriter at your stage, it's really now just a matter of time and continued effort before you flourish further.
PRAE AERIUS:
Speaking of distinct projectile behaviors, Prae's clearly got no shortage. Beyond the projectiles and ranged hitboxes themselves, I like the meta playstyle here of keeping the foe distracted to where less obvious machinations, like the Neutral Special crosshair or F-Smash pixie dust circle, might go unnoticed. It's not something that takes up too much real estate in the context of the set, nor should it (with the danger being, an attentive or pro player could effectively neuter the set's viability once they learn to ID the cues), but it definitely adds to the flavor. The projectiles themselves are good in a vacuum but what I enjoy most is Prae's unique ways for getting them in play. She doesn't just rain down homing stars, for instance, but must first lock a crosshair onto a target and then wait five seconds. She's got the three Side Special projectiles she can get good mileage out of, but at the cost of having to soar forward in the process (which in and of itself can lead to some neat setups, like the confirm with U-Air into bomb). That, in combination with the Vulture-adjacent Up Special letting Prae weave her way in and around her borderline bullet hell really sets apart her game plans in a way I'm quite fond of.
As far as concerns, I alluded to my hangups with Down Special in chat, but to unpack that further, I don't see 90 frames as that long of a commitment for healing 10% a pop (as a comparison, Warlock Punch is 118 frames). It's not as big a deal as it would be on a heavier character, but given Prae's mobility (multiple jumps, insanely good air movement, a darting Side Special for getting breathing room), plus the various projectiles she can use to keep foes occupied, the end result I'm envisioning involves Prae irritatingly fleeing and downing smoothies to heal on the regular, or depending on her victim, getting a guaranteed 10% or 20% healed every time they're offstage (if she sits onstage and heals instead of pursuing). I do agree with FRoy that 12% and knockback upon an actual successful counter does veer in the direction of underpowered, though. Some sort of "staling" on how much Prae can heal with repeated Down Specials in a given timeframe, or comparable balancing measure, would resolve a lot of my concern in this regard, as would lowering how much self-damage she takes or giving her just one or both of damage/knockback on a successful counter. Beyond that, I don't have any substantive complaints with Prae, she's definitely well put-together (other highlight moves for me include the armored D-Smash, D-Throw as far as letting her target a foe from the air during get-up and the needling D-Tilt) and my current favorite set of MYM23.
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plague126
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2020
- Messages
- 35
It’s time for...Plague Comments!
Reimu: Alright, my first comment of this contest! So, Reimu is honestly an okay set! The concepts there are good, and while they don’t have a ton of detail, they still have enough to get across what the moves are generally for, and the move data helps with that too, although for future movesets, I’d recommend trying to mention what moves work well with other moves, whether in terms of combos or just in general. The standards themselves could use some more detail as well. For specific move comments, the mindgame and mixup potential on Up Special is honestly something I can’t say I’ve seen before, and it really serves to make Reimu’s recovery less predictable. The different options for Down Special also seem good for giving Reimu just more options in general. And for the gimmicks, the flight is okay, but the hitbox...I do get what you were going for but I have several problems with it. For one, I do think the hitbox could stand to be a bit bigger, and also...I think double damage is a bit too much, but especially double knockback is way too much, with how knockback works, almost any move is just going to kill her instantly. Overall, I think this is alright, however, the normals could be more detailed and the hitbox thing needs some changes.
Prae Aerius: I've heard good things about this set, and I have to say, this does not disappoint in the least! It's an easy and semi-short read, but you've crammed so much detail and quality into each move that it still is complex enough to stand out! The writing style is also very good and really made the set a treat to read! Neutral Special in my opinion is both interesting and a great tool for pressure and/or stage control, and the crosshair part is something unique that I don't believe I've really seen before, and I like that! Side Special's different projectiles are also a very interesting move, and you made them in a way that each one is good in certain situations, instead of one being the clear best option, which, along with Neutral Special seems to give Prae a very good projectile game to intimidate her foes with, and speaking of different options, Up Special is another example of a move that can give Prae a wide variety of uses, from recovering to punishing to escaping tough situations, and that versatility is really another thing I like a lot. Down Special is also a very interesting take on a counter and it's one I feel works really well with Prae, giving her multiple beneficial options to choose from, and simultaneously make the foe pressured and intimidated, and more likely to slip up. I think all of Prae's specials give her an incredibly wide variety of options against the foe, and they all do it in unique ways that make it so you'll want to use all of them to the fullest. Forward Smash is another example too of being simple yet working very well with Prae's kit, giving another thing the foe needs to be aware for, and the more things they need to keep track of, the more likely they are to slip up, which is something the set conveys well, which is also helped a bit with Jab's weak projectiles, which can help just annoy foes. Prae's air game is also very good, with the projectiles already pressuring foes, the Up Smash to block off parts of the air, and the deadly and great air game befitting a smol bulli fairy. Overall, while this set is simple at the surface, it has a lot of complexity under the surface, and a very clear playstyle of overwhelming the foe with stuff to keep track of until they inevitably mess up, then capitalizing hard on that mistake.
Marauder: I think this is pretty good for a first set! It has a clear playstyle, and the moves do detail that well, and feel pretty fitting to Marauder, given what you mentioned about him. I do think the moves could do with having more detail to them, however, but from skimming Han-Tyumi, it appears like you’re working on that already. If I may suggest anything to add to Marauder, I’d recommend adding some details on how certain moves can work well into each other, which i did notice you did well in Jab and Side Tilt, so I look forward to seeing you do well with that in the future. I think if you keep improving you’ll do very well this contest! Although, to bring up one more minor complaint, I think the damage on the smashes could be decreased just a little.
Exeggcute: So, this was an April Fools Day set you hyped up for a while Slavic, and...well it has still vastly exceeded my expectations somehow. There’s multiple eggs! I was expecting a single one, yet the egg count was vastly surpassed! And that Exeggutor joke made me laugh a lot, heh. Up Special seems like a very good use for murdering eggs as well. Also god that Side Special image just killed me and I don’t know why. And ah, we even get Marvin! Who I totally absolutely definitely remember hahahah. I like that even though this is an April Fools Day set you still managed to make like, a genuinely interesting, if probably unfitting, set. And while I will be ranking this I hope you aren't mad that it's probably gonna be low just by the virtue of the too many eggs, though if you want to make this competitively viable I probably will bump it up. Anyway enough of my ramblings. In conclusion: egg.
Bonanza Bros: So, this is alright for a first moveset, but...while the concepts are neat, the set is way too underdetailed. I think you definitely need to detail the damage and general knockback of moves, as well as how the moves work well in the playstyle, otherwise the moves don’t feel like they work together. I hope you take my advice to heart! Sorry I don’t have much to say but...the set doesn’t have much to talk about either.
Mami Tomoe: Going from Exeggcute to this, it’s, well....It’s a gigantic leap in how good it is! You’re quickly becoming very great, Slavic, good job! You weave every move in this moveset together very nicely, and well, given Mami wanted to connect life, I’d say it’s fitting every move connects with each other very well. Tiro Finale is a very strong move for Mami, and the way you handled it is very interesting, both in just being a very strong option, and with the ability to charge it, both for just giving the move more power, and for using it for other moves, which seems like a very scary prospect for her foes, and the ways you incorporate it are unique and a great addition to her moveset. Regale’s many options are also a very good tool, whether for just comboing, or for killing with the aforementioned Tiro Finale charge. I also very much like Rinculo’s options on the ground being equipped for defensive situations, as well as leading into Mami’s aerial options. Esca is also a very interesting take on a counter, with the first half being good for interrupting foes and the second half being good for ensnaring the foe for some real punishment, which the versatility of is only added to by the ability to leave the ribbon decoy out on the stage and move it around only adds to it. The specials and their interactions with every move, as well as the standards and their different rifle firing angles, also lend themselves well to a great stage control focused playstyle, which I like. Overall, this set weaves together every move into a very clear and very unique playstyle, and is just...amazing, good job! Insert Mami Wink Here
Imp Midna: I think this is a good first set, honestly! While I do think the set could use some detail, both in terms of damage and knockback for moves, and general uses for moves, I think the concepts you have are good! You clearly do have a love for this character, and I think that’s what makes great movesets! If you can improve I think you’ll do great!
Robobot Armor: I think you started off this contest really strong, Bubby! This is a really good set, and I think it both incorporates a lot of Robobot powers and yet it still manages to work them together really well, which is really good! I also really like the way you make it clear what moves are good for playing off of each other, which also does help in making the set feel cohesive. It has a decent projectile game too, with a lot of possible setups and mixups, as well as some very good pressure and stage control options, with Neutral Special's incredibly varied uses depending on the options you take, Side Special's ability to both be a quick projectile, and having the option hold out the saw as you walk and charge it to be a stronger projectile, Down Special's ability to create something the foe needs to constantly watch out for, Up Smash’s unpredictable projectiles for making foes more cautious, and Down Smash’s ability to deny parts of the stage. And the melee game is also pretty good as well, not doing anything too special, but being good for a variety of things to let Robobot not fall behind foes who are really good at dealing with the pressure of the projectiles. Overall, I really liked this, and look forward to your future movesets Bubby!
Bleak: I remember reading the old Bleak moveset before joining this community, and I think this is another interesting take on the ol' snowman dude! Already, I think this is a cool and unique take on his playstyle, with a lot of focus on stage control and ranged pressure, with clear options for both slow and strong projectiles, and fast and weak projectiles, with the added ability to make some quick cover, but also with very clear weaknesses, like Neutral Special's slowness and Side Special's cooldown, that foes can focus on, forcing Bleak to use the rest of his moveset instead of just sitting back and solely firing snowballs, which is a very great way of balancing him and making not very annoying if you don't have projectiles, and his melee game seems good as well, especially with the ability to use the snowbank to better your moves, as well as also use it as an emergency move with Down Smash, and his surprisingly far-reaching grab. Overall, I think this is another very interesting, and very cool take on Bleak, and also once again shows that you can make stuff not too wordy, yet also detail all the moves and their uses very well.
MinMin- While this set does have some cool stuff going for it, I think the lack of detail is really holding it back. The Specials have a decent amount of detail, but I think it would be good if you could've kept up that level of detail throughout the set, and some details on how moves can work well off of each other would be good as well. And while I don't have much else to say, for the grabs, I think you should do more than describe moves as "The second part of her grab from ARMS" because not everyone will know what you mean by that. I hope you can improve in the future!
Arvis: Like MinMin, I think this set is good but it’s being held back by a lot of lacking detail. The concepts are good yeah, but again I find myself wishing for more detail on the moves, especially with the lack of a gimmick here.
Cinderace: This is another good newcomer set in my opinion, though it does suffer from lack of detail snd stuff like damage percentages and knockback, although the concepts there are pretty good I’d say! Some better characterization would be good, but you’re working on that already, which is good. Overall, good first moveset!
Ganon: I feel like I’m saying this a lot, but this is a good newcomer moveset! I think the concepts are good, and you do actually go into a bit of detail on stuff. The thing is, that, past that, the moveset isn’t really doing anything big enough to talk about specifically, and just...feels like you could’ve gone into even more detail and done something very unique with this. Overall, It’s good, but could stand to do something really unique. And as a critique, some damage percents i feel need a nerf, like with up special’s reappearance.
Snom: I have to say, this is a great set, GolisoPower! I think this is a noticeable improvement over Reimu honestly, which was already pretty good. Struggle Bug is a really interesting move, and I like how it forces foes to rely on stuff other than grabs for punishing (RIP Luigi, not gonna get a grab combo on Snom that easily). The Side and Down Specials also seem like a good addition, with the freeze allowing for a lot of options, which I like. The concept of Attract on Snom is good, but a 50% chance for any attack to fail isn’t really good, but you’ve said you plan to change that anyway. And once again i very much like how you make it clear which moves work well together. Overall I think this is another great set, keep up the good work! And i know Slavic already mentioned this, but, if you want some quicker and more detailed feedback, I recommend joining the discord, joining it I feel has really improved the quality of my movesets
Doom Slayer: Once again, I believe this is a decent moveset! The moves work well in the playstyle you've made and are decently fitting to Doom Slayer as well! I like the Glory Kill mechanic too, it's an interesting take on the mechanic and the fact that you need to use it quickly makes it well-balanced in my opinion. The moves could use a bit more detail, but your Snom moveset shows me that you are working on adding more detail, which is good! I think you're good to be proud of this one.
Han-Tyumi: Reading this, I think this is already a big improvement over Marauder. The playstyle is much clearer, the moves, while not super detailed, still have a decent amount of detail, and the moves, while all being references, I believe still actually make sense and make a coherent moveset, and one very well used for stage control, with the vomit puddles usually needing to be jumped over unless you have like, a really long smash attack (*cough* Belmont *cough*), the fishing rod’s great pressure and punish options, the weed cloud’s sleep function forcing foes away from it, the wireframe face forcing pesky zoners to actually use something other than projectiles, and down tilt’s vegemite being a small but good addition to the package. Good job!
Ahri: I think this another great set, GolisoPower! I think both of Ahri's gimmicks work very well, the speed boost if you hit with the same special twice seems good for making foes try very hard to avoid specials, which could be good fr pressure, and the level up mechanic is very interesting, and seems fitting for a LoL character, and I very much like the ways you incorporate it into the set, both in the upgrades to her specials with it, its interactions with non-special moves, and the ways of actually getting XP in the first place. The Essence Theft on Neutral Special also seems to help make foes want to avoid it the more they get hit by it, and its drawbacks help make this not too broken. Charm is also a good move for making foes wary of getting hit by it, lest they get forced to move towards Ahri, which can open them up to a lot of punishment. Up Special's very good recovery and combo potential is also a good addition, though I feel like 20 seconds is a bit too long of a cooldown, as if Ahri wants to recover, surviving for 20 seconds without getting knocked away again seems like a bit too much? Fox-Fire also seems like a good tool for racking up damage as well, and its drawbacks help balance this well. Jab/Side Tilt/N-Air is also an interesting tool for damage, and one you have to work hard to make it truly effective to use. Overall, I think Ahri is a really good set, with powerful tools that are still balanced by very clear drawbacks and cooldowns, that punish just randomly throwing out attacks, and encourages strategy.
Fierce Pork Trooper: Last contest you did Tamaki Damo, which, while I did like, I do recognize was kinda....lacking. This however, is not lacking at all, it's a massive improvement, and was both an interesting read, and a creative moveset! Piggy Nose, to me, is a very interesting take on an "autoface the opponent" mechanic, and it seems fitting, and very useful for it changing up FPT's state and making how he approaches a situation different, and I can see the pros and cons on both states, and balancing the states seems like what a good FPT player will have to do. Thunder Tower is also a super interesting move, not just being a trap, but also being able to enhance a lot of FPT's moves in unique ways, and I'm a sucker for moves changing how other moves work. Pork Bean is also a cool move as well, being able to travel far, be a good option for KOing if you can predict the foe's reaction, and if you can somehow get this hit by lightning and hit it, the KO potential is amazing, and I have a soft spot for hard to land but amazing KO moves. Berserker Rush is also another example of a move that works well with both Piggy Nose, with the lock on, and Thunder Tower, with the warp. Overall, I think FPT is a set that uses its gimmicks to enhance its moves in unique and useful ways, and it details those ways very well, and details the uses of those ways very well too, and if I talked about each move's uses with each of those gimmicks individually, I'd be here all day. Good job!
Iyami: While I like what you’re going for here...like others have said, I think this set needs a lot more detail, especially in damage percentages. Not much else to say really.
Carrot: Your first moveset of this contest is a really good one, I believe, Bia! The concepts of this move all work really well together, and the moves themselves seem fitting even though I don’t know much about this character (although well, just looking at them I can tell they’re your kind of character.) Electro Charge is an interesting buff for this set, and the ways you incorporate it into each of the sets moves are interesting and detailed well in each individual move, opening up greater options for damage, comboing, KOing, and even stage control with Down Smash, forcing foes into the air where Carrot shines. The Down Special is also very interesting, with it either being a good heal option for Carrot, but also being a tough choice for foes on whether or not to let Carrot take the heal, or prevent her from healing at the cost of damage, with either option being good for Carrot, it reminds me of Prae's Down Special in a way. Up Special not turning Carrot around is also interesting, and I could see it opening up a couple of interesting aerial approaches for Carrot to take. Electro Mink Rush also is a good part of the moveset for being able to drag foes closer to the blast zone, which is something the rest of her moveset isn't really good for, so it's nice to have the ability to still. Overall, this is a set that I think uses its main gimmick very well with all of its moves, and details said uses decently well, so good job!
Cyclohm: I think this is a really interesting and creative set, Bubby! It’s only recently that I learned about the Fakemon community, and seeing sets for them really does pique my interest in the topic, even though there’s really only been 2 I’ve seen (so far at least). Zap Cannon first of all seems like a very good all-around tool for Cyclohm, being a good zoning tool, and the full charge version being a great tool for KOing, and the way it ties into and interacts with other specials is also very interesting as well. Thunderbolt is also another interesting move, and actually creating a cloud for it first is something I don’t believe I’ve seen much before, and the move itself seems great for stage control, especially if Zap Cannon supercharges it. Twister only adds to this too, with its many interactions each being great in its own right: shooting a Zap Cannon into it for a lot of damage and leading into other moves too, the thunderbolt into it being good for just adding some extra oomph to the attack, knocking the cloud into the tornado to make it both harder for foes to ignore and better for setting up a combo, and lastly, shooting a thunderbolt or Zap Cannon into a supercharged tornado to open up an extremely powerful KO option, and all these interactions are a treat to look at. Even the standards have some interesting interactions among them, with the ability to freeze the cloud for stage control with Up Smash, as well as Down Smash being able to extend its hitbox to nearby clouds to keep foes away while Cyclohm sets up their cloud. Soak, while not having a ton of specific interactions, is also still appreciated for its ability to greatly enhance Cyclohm’s damage dealing and combo game, given their many powerful electric moves to make use of against a soaked foe, and is also aided a bit by Down Air’s ability to slightly extend the soak time. Overall, I think Cyclohm is a very great set that makes use of the many interactions between its specials to amazing effect, and supplements those with simple yet effective standard moves. Good job!
Sub-Zero: I really enjoyed this moveset, Goliso! I’ve always enjoyed Mortal Kombat sets, and this is another good MK set. Both the main gimmicks unique to Sub-Zero I think really do make it feel unique to a Mortal Kombat character, and add to the moveset well too, with the Combo Strings opening up more, well, combos for Sub-Zero, and the Krushing Blows encouraging different ways of using moves to put the foe under some reeeal hurt, and the added touch of Special Zoom helps make it feel like the X-Ray type nature of Krushing Blows. Mortal Freezing is another cool (heh) addition, and an interesting take on Freezing that requires players to use the command inputs of Sub-Zero’s to full effect (insert joke about smash players not liking command inputs here), and feels fitting for the ice ninja too. Ice Ball is a good move for Sub, being both a good move to play into his freezing game, which is great for starting combos, and being a good tool for encouraging use of command inputs. Polar Puncture also is another great tool for Freezing, being a good kill move/damage dealer normally, but being great for starting combos with the command input. Rising Ice, while being simpler than the other specials, is also still good for aerial combos and countering some aerial approaches. Ice Klone is also a very good move, being a good option to snuff out some movement options, as well as being a good option against defensive foes if you decide to throw it. Also, the addition of two Final Smashes depending on Sub's health is something i really like too. Overall, I think this is a great set which although it has a lot of gimmicks, it works those gimmicks together very well, with each move having its uses, and those uses being very clear, and making it encouraged to use most of them to their fullest. Good job!
Tomoyo Kanzaki: Reading my first Kat set of this contest, and this one is a great start, I hadn’t heard of the series she’s from today, but the concept of anime characters with OP powers not using them to fight big and long battles is very funny to me. First off, I think you’ve really balanced the time stop well, which is not an easy feat to do. The ability to only perform 3 moves makes it so you can’t just spam powerful moves during stopped time, the fact that knockback angles are combined, and the fact that time passes twice as fast unless you’re in the middle of a movement or movement based attack, as well as the time period before the time stop, both encourage careful positioning and planning for the time-stop, which I very much like. The time needed to wait before the time stop reaches full power, as well as the cooldown, also makes sure the time stop can’t be spammed as well. I also like that foes can intercept the time stop if they're smart enough, it really adds some strategy to the time stop. And the addition of specials and moves working differently if they involve “teleporting” is also a very nice touch that also makes a lot of sense, you can’t stop stopped time even more, after all. Time leap is both a great burst movement option for approaching foes normally, and a great set-up tool for time stop combos. Timed Play is a very versatile move, being able to just toss the ball for a weak projectile, or spike it hard for some pressure, and even harder for some greater pressure and a very powerful move, and its change in stopped time seems good for positioning foes to get hit into the ball once it ends, which can be veeery dangerous, especially if the ball is flaming. Time Out is also a very interesting take on a counter, being able to cancel into a couple specific options if you aren't confident in timing your own counter, or being able to choose which move to perform out of the counter if you think you can get it out in time, which, if you time it so it happens just when time stop starts, can be made way easier. And lastly, while getting into each standard's specific uses and strengths with time stop, I do like the sheer amount of versatility and options you put into a lot of moves, it really gives Tomoyo a ton of options to work with. Overall, I very much enjoyed this set a lot, it uses the time-stop gimmick very creatively, and in a unique way, and both has a lot of options to choose from, and benefits to each of those options that encourage varying your approaches based on your foe’s approaches.
Reimu: Alright, my first comment of this contest! So, Reimu is honestly an okay set! The concepts there are good, and while they don’t have a ton of detail, they still have enough to get across what the moves are generally for, and the move data helps with that too, although for future movesets, I’d recommend trying to mention what moves work well with other moves, whether in terms of combos or just in general. The standards themselves could use some more detail as well. For specific move comments, the mindgame and mixup potential on Up Special is honestly something I can’t say I’ve seen before, and it really serves to make Reimu’s recovery less predictable. The different options for Down Special also seem good for giving Reimu just more options in general. And for the gimmicks, the flight is okay, but the hitbox...I do get what you were going for but I have several problems with it. For one, I do think the hitbox could stand to be a bit bigger, and also...I think double damage is a bit too much, but especially double knockback is way too much, with how knockback works, almost any move is just going to kill her instantly. Overall, I think this is alright, however, the normals could be more detailed and the hitbox thing needs some changes.
Prae Aerius: I've heard good things about this set, and I have to say, this does not disappoint in the least! It's an easy and semi-short read, but you've crammed so much detail and quality into each move that it still is complex enough to stand out! The writing style is also very good and really made the set a treat to read! Neutral Special in my opinion is both interesting and a great tool for pressure and/or stage control, and the crosshair part is something unique that I don't believe I've really seen before, and I like that! Side Special's different projectiles are also a very interesting move, and you made them in a way that each one is good in certain situations, instead of one being the clear best option, which, along with Neutral Special seems to give Prae a very good projectile game to intimidate her foes with, and speaking of different options, Up Special is another example of a move that can give Prae a wide variety of uses, from recovering to punishing to escaping tough situations, and that versatility is really another thing I like a lot. Down Special is also a very interesting take on a counter and it's one I feel works really well with Prae, giving her multiple beneficial options to choose from, and simultaneously make the foe pressured and intimidated, and more likely to slip up. I think all of Prae's specials give her an incredibly wide variety of options against the foe, and they all do it in unique ways that make it so you'll want to use all of them to the fullest. Forward Smash is another example too of being simple yet working very well with Prae's kit, giving another thing the foe needs to be aware for, and the more things they need to keep track of, the more likely they are to slip up, which is something the set conveys well, which is also helped a bit with Jab's weak projectiles, which can help just annoy foes. Prae's air game is also very good, with the projectiles already pressuring foes, the Up Smash to block off parts of the air, and the deadly and great air game befitting a smol bulli fairy. Overall, while this set is simple at the surface, it has a lot of complexity under the surface, and a very clear playstyle of overwhelming the foe with stuff to keep track of until they inevitably mess up, then capitalizing hard on that mistake.
Marauder: I think this is pretty good for a first set! It has a clear playstyle, and the moves do detail that well, and feel pretty fitting to Marauder, given what you mentioned about him. I do think the moves could do with having more detail to them, however, but from skimming Han-Tyumi, it appears like you’re working on that already. If I may suggest anything to add to Marauder, I’d recommend adding some details on how certain moves can work well into each other, which i did notice you did well in Jab and Side Tilt, so I look forward to seeing you do well with that in the future. I think if you keep improving you’ll do very well this contest! Although, to bring up one more minor complaint, I think the damage on the smashes could be decreased just a little.
Exeggcute: So, this was an April Fools Day set you hyped up for a while Slavic, and...well it has still vastly exceeded my expectations somehow. There’s multiple eggs! I was expecting a single one, yet the egg count was vastly surpassed! And that Exeggutor joke made me laugh a lot, heh. Up Special seems like a very good use for murdering eggs as well. Also god that Side Special image just killed me and I don’t know why. And ah, we even get Marvin! Who I totally absolutely definitely remember hahahah. I like that even though this is an April Fools Day set you still managed to make like, a genuinely interesting, if probably unfitting, set. And while I will be ranking this I hope you aren't mad that it's probably gonna be low just by the virtue of the too many eggs, though if you want to make this competitively viable I probably will bump it up. Anyway enough of my ramblings. In conclusion: egg.
Bonanza Bros: So, this is alright for a first moveset, but...while the concepts are neat, the set is way too underdetailed. I think you definitely need to detail the damage and general knockback of moves, as well as how the moves work well in the playstyle, otherwise the moves don’t feel like they work together. I hope you take my advice to heart! Sorry I don’t have much to say but...the set doesn’t have much to talk about either.
Mami Tomoe: Going from Exeggcute to this, it’s, well....It’s a gigantic leap in how good it is! You’re quickly becoming very great, Slavic, good job! You weave every move in this moveset together very nicely, and well, given Mami wanted to connect life, I’d say it’s fitting every move connects with each other very well. Tiro Finale is a very strong move for Mami, and the way you handled it is very interesting, both in just being a very strong option, and with the ability to charge it, both for just giving the move more power, and for using it for other moves, which seems like a very scary prospect for her foes, and the ways you incorporate it are unique and a great addition to her moveset. Regale’s many options are also a very good tool, whether for just comboing, or for killing with the aforementioned Tiro Finale charge. I also very much like Rinculo’s options on the ground being equipped for defensive situations, as well as leading into Mami’s aerial options. Esca is also a very interesting take on a counter, with the first half being good for interrupting foes and the second half being good for ensnaring the foe for some real punishment, which the versatility of is only added to by the ability to leave the ribbon decoy out on the stage and move it around only adds to it. The specials and their interactions with every move, as well as the standards and their different rifle firing angles, also lend themselves well to a great stage control focused playstyle, which I like. Overall, this set weaves together every move into a very clear and very unique playstyle, and is just...amazing, good job! Insert Mami Wink Here
Imp Midna: I think this is a good first set, honestly! While I do think the set could use some detail, both in terms of damage and knockback for moves, and general uses for moves, I think the concepts you have are good! You clearly do have a love for this character, and I think that’s what makes great movesets! If you can improve I think you’ll do great!
Robobot Armor: I think you started off this contest really strong, Bubby! This is a really good set, and I think it both incorporates a lot of Robobot powers and yet it still manages to work them together really well, which is really good! I also really like the way you make it clear what moves are good for playing off of each other, which also does help in making the set feel cohesive. It has a decent projectile game too, with a lot of possible setups and mixups, as well as some very good pressure and stage control options, with Neutral Special's incredibly varied uses depending on the options you take, Side Special's ability to both be a quick projectile, and having the option hold out the saw as you walk and charge it to be a stronger projectile, Down Special's ability to create something the foe needs to constantly watch out for, Up Smash’s unpredictable projectiles for making foes more cautious, and Down Smash’s ability to deny parts of the stage. And the melee game is also pretty good as well, not doing anything too special, but being good for a variety of things to let Robobot not fall behind foes who are really good at dealing with the pressure of the projectiles. Overall, I really liked this, and look forward to your future movesets Bubby!
Bleak: I remember reading the old Bleak moveset before joining this community, and I think this is another interesting take on the ol' snowman dude! Already, I think this is a cool and unique take on his playstyle, with a lot of focus on stage control and ranged pressure, with clear options for both slow and strong projectiles, and fast and weak projectiles, with the added ability to make some quick cover, but also with very clear weaknesses, like Neutral Special's slowness and Side Special's cooldown, that foes can focus on, forcing Bleak to use the rest of his moveset instead of just sitting back and solely firing snowballs, which is a very great way of balancing him and making not very annoying if you don't have projectiles, and his melee game seems good as well, especially with the ability to use the snowbank to better your moves, as well as also use it as an emergency move with Down Smash, and his surprisingly far-reaching grab. Overall, I think this is another very interesting, and very cool take on Bleak, and also once again shows that you can make stuff not too wordy, yet also detail all the moves and their uses very well.
MinMin- While this set does have some cool stuff going for it, I think the lack of detail is really holding it back. The Specials have a decent amount of detail, but I think it would be good if you could've kept up that level of detail throughout the set, and some details on how moves can work well off of each other would be good as well. And while I don't have much else to say, for the grabs, I think you should do more than describe moves as "The second part of her grab from ARMS" because not everyone will know what you mean by that. I hope you can improve in the future!
Arvis: Like MinMin, I think this set is good but it’s being held back by a lot of lacking detail. The concepts are good yeah, but again I find myself wishing for more detail on the moves, especially with the lack of a gimmick here.
Cinderace: This is another good newcomer set in my opinion, though it does suffer from lack of detail snd stuff like damage percentages and knockback, although the concepts there are pretty good I’d say! Some better characterization would be good, but you’re working on that already, which is good. Overall, good first moveset!
Ganon: I feel like I’m saying this a lot, but this is a good newcomer moveset! I think the concepts are good, and you do actually go into a bit of detail on stuff. The thing is, that, past that, the moveset isn’t really doing anything big enough to talk about specifically, and just...feels like you could’ve gone into even more detail and done something very unique with this. Overall, It’s good, but could stand to do something really unique. And as a critique, some damage percents i feel need a nerf, like with up special’s reappearance.
Snom: I have to say, this is a great set, GolisoPower! I think this is a noticeable improvement over Reimu honestly, which was already pretty good. Struggle Bug is a really interesting move, and I like how it forces foes to rely on stuff other than grabs for punishing (RIP Luigi, not gonna get a grab combo on Snom that easily). The Side and Down Specials also seem like a good addition, with the freeze allowing for a lot of options, which I like. The concept of Attract on Snom is good, but a 50% chance for any attack to fail isn’t really good, but you’ve said you plan to change that anyway. And once again i very much like how you make it clear which moves work well together. Overall I think this is another great set, keep up the good work! And i know Slavic already mentioned this, but, if you want some quicker and more detailed feedback, I recommend joining the discord, joining it I feel has really improved the quality of my movesets
Doom Slayer: Once again, I believe this is a decent moveset! The moves work well in the playstyle you've made and are decently fitting to Doom Slayer as well! I like the Glory Kill mechanic too, it's an interesting take on the mechanic and the fact that you need to use it quickly makes it well-balanced in my opinion. The moves could use a bit more detail, but your Snom moveset shows me that you are working on adding more detail, which is good! I think you're good to be proud of this one.
Han-Tyumi: Reading this, I think this is already a big improvement over Marauder. The playstyle is much clearer, the moves, while not super detailed, still have a decent amount of detail, and the moves, while all being references, I believe still actually make sense and make a coherent moveset, and one very well used for stage control, with the vomit puddles usually needing to be jumped over unless you have like, a really long smash attack (*cough* Belmont *cough*), the fishing rod’s great pressure and punish options, the weed cloud’s sleep function forcing foes away from it, the wireframe face forcing pesky zoners to actually use something other than projectiles, and down tilt’s vegemite being a small but good addition to the package. Good job!
Ahri: I think this another great set, GolisoPower! I think both of Ahri's gimmicks work very well, the speed boost if you hit with the same special twice seems good for making foes try very hard to avoid specials, which could be good fr pressure, and the level up mechanic is very interesting, and seems fitting for a LoL character, and I very much like the ways you incorporate it into the set, both in the upgrades to her specials with it, its interactions with non-special moves, and the ways of actually getting XP in the first place. The Essence Theft on Neutral Special also seems to help make foes want to avoid it the more they get hit by it, and its drawbacks help make this not too broken. Charm is also a good move for making foes wary of getting hit by it, lest they get forced to move towards Ahri, which can open them up to a lot of punishment. Up Special's very good recovery and combo potential is also a good addition, though I feel like 20 seconds is a bit too long of a cooldown, as if Ahri wants to recover, surviving for 20 seconds without getting knocked away again seems like a bit too much? Fox-Fire also seems like a good tool for racking up damage as well, and its drawbacks help balance this well. Jab/Side Tilt/N-Air is also an interesting tool for damage, and one you have to work hard to make it truly effective to use. Overall, I think Ahri is a really good set, with powerful tools that are still balanced by very clear drawbacks and cooldowns, that punish just randomly throwing out attacks, and encourages strategy.
Fierce Pork Trooper: Last contest you did Tamaki Damo, which, while I did like, I do recognize was kinda....lacking. This however, is not lacking at all, it's a massive improvement, and was both an interesting read, and a creative moveset! Piggy Nose, to me, is a very interesting take on an "autoface the opponent" mechanic, and it seems fitting, and very useful for it changing up FPT's state and making how he approaches a situation different, and I can see the pros and cons on both states, and balancing the states seems like what a good FPT player will have to do. Thunder Tower is also a super interesting move, not just being a trap, but also being able to enhance a lot of FPT's moves in unique ways, and I'm a sucker for moves changing how other moves work. Pork Bean is also a cool move as well, being able to travel far, be a good option for KOing if you can predict the foe's reaction, and if you can somehow get this hit by lightning and hit it, the KO potential is amazing, and I have a soft spot for hard to land but amazing KO moves. Berserker Rush is also another example of a move that works well with both Piggy Nose, with the lock on, and Thunder Tower, with the warp. Overall, I think FPT is a set that uses its gimmicks to enhance its moves in unique and useful ways, and it details those ways very well, and details the uses of those ways very well too, and if I talked about each move's uses with each of those gimmicks individually, I'd be here all day. Good job!
Iyami: While I like what you’re going for here...like others have said, I think this set needs a lot more detail, especially in damage percentages. Not much else to say really.
Carrot: Your first moveset of this contest is a really good one, I believe, Bia! The concepts of this move all work really well together, and the moves themselves seem fitting even though I don’t know much about this character (although well, just looking at them I can tell they’re your kind of character.) Electro Charge is an interesting buff for this set, and the ways you incorporate it into each of the sets moves are interesting and detailed well in each individual move, opening up greater options for damage, comboing, KOing, and even stage control with Down Smash, forcing foes into the air where Carrot shines. The Down Special is also very interesting, with it either being a good heal option for Carrot, but also being a tough choice for foes on whether or not to let Carrot take the heal, or prevent her from healing at the cost of damage, with either option being good for Carrot, it reminds me of Prae's Down Special in a way. Up Special not turning Carrot around is also interesting, and I could see it opening up a couple of interesting aerial approaches for Carrot to take. Electro Mink Rush also is a good part of the moveset for being able to drag foes closer to the blast zone, which is something the rest of her moveset isn't really good for, so it's nice to have the ability to still. Overall, this is a set that I think uses its main gimmick very well with all of its moves, and details said uses decently well, so good job!
Cyclohm: I think this is a really interesting and creative set, Bubby! It’s only recently that I learned about the Fakemon community, and seeing sets for them really does pique my interest in the topic, even though there’s really only been 2 I’ve seen (so far at least). Zap Cannon first of all seems like a very good all-around tool for Cyclohm, being a good zoning tool, and the full charge version being a great tool for KOing, and the way it ties into and interacts with other specials is also very interesting as well. Thunderbolt is also another interesting move, and actually creating a cloud for it first is something I don’t believe I’ve seen much before, and the move itself seems great for stage control, especially if Zap Cannon supercharges it. Twister only adds to this too, with its many interactions each being great in its own right: shooting a Zap Cannon into it for a lot of damage and leading into other moves too, the thunderbolt into it being good for just adding some extra oomph to the attack, knocking the cloud into the tornado to make it both harder for foes to ignore and better for setting up a combo, and lastly, shooting a thunderbolt or Zap Cannon into a supercharged tornado to open up an extremely powerful KO option, and all these interactions are a treat to look at. Even the standards have some interesting interactions among them, with the ability to freeze the cloud for stage control with Up Smash, as well as Down Smash being able to extend its hitbox to nearby clouds to keep foes away while Cyclohm sets up their cloud. Soak, while not having a ton of specific interactions, is also still appreciated for its ability to greatly enhance Cyclohm’s damage dealing and combo game, given their many powerful electric moves to make use of against a soaked foe, and is also aided a bit by Down Air’s ability to slightly extend the soak time. Overall, I think Cyclohm is a very great set that makes use of the many interactions between its specials to amazing effect, and supplements those with simple yet effective standard moves. Good job!
Sub-Zero: I really enjoyed this moveset, Goliso! I’ve always enjoyed Mortal Kombat sets, and this is another good MK set. Both the main gimmicks unique to Sub-Zero I think really do make it feel unique to a Mortal Kombat character, and add to the moveset well too, with the Combo Strings opening up more, well, combos for Sub-Zero, and the Krushing Blows encouraging different ways of using moves to put the foe under some reeeal hurt, and the added touch of Special Zoom helps make it feel like the X-Ray type nature of Krushing Blows. Mortal Freezing is another cool (heh) addition, and an interesting take on Freezing that requires players to use the command inputs of Sub-Zero’s to full effect (insert joke about smash players not liking command inputs here), and feels fitting for the ice ninja too. Ice Ball is a good move for Sub, being both a good move to play into his freezing game, which is great for starting combos, and being a good tool for encouraging use of command inputs. Polar Puncture also is another great tool for Freezing, being a good kill move/damage dealer normally, but being great for starting combos with the command input. Rising Ice, while being simpler than the other specials, is also still good for aerial combos and countering some aerial approaches. Ice Klone is also a very good move, being a good option to snuff out some movement options, as well as being a good option against defensive foes if you decide to throw it. Also, the addition of two Final Smashes depending on Sub's health is something i really like too. Overall, I think this is a great set which although it has a lot of gimmicks, it works those gimmicks together very well, with each move having its uses, and those uses being very clear, and making it encouraged to use most of them to their fullest. Good job!
Tomoyo Kanzaki: Reading my first Kat set of this contest, and this one is a great start, I hadn’t heard of the series she’s from today, but the concept of anime characters with OP powers not using them to fight big and long battles is very funny to me. First off, I think you’ve really balanced the time stop well, which is not an easy feat to do. The ability to only perform 3 moves makes it so you can’t just spam powerful moves during stopped time, the fact that knockback angles are combined, and the fact that time passes twice as fast unless you’re in the middle of a movement or movement based attack, as well as the time period before the time stop, both encourage careful positioning and planning for the time-stop, which I very much like. The time needed to wait before the time stop reaches full power, as well as the cooldown, also makes sure the time stop can’t be spammed as well. I also like that foes can intercept the time stop if they're smart enough, it really adds some strategy to the time stop. And the addition of specials and moves working differently if they involve “teleporting” is also a very nice touch that also makes a lot of sense, you can’t stop stopped time even more, after all. Time leap is both a great burst movement option for approaching foes normally, and a great set-up tool for time stop combos. Timed Play is a very versatile move, being able to just toss the ball for a weak projectile, or spike it hard for some pressure, and even harder for some greater pressure and a very powerful move, and its change in stopped time seems good for positioning foes to get hit into the ball once it ends, which can be veeery dangerous, especially if the ball is flaming. Time Out is also a very interesting take on a counter, being able to cancel into a couple specific options if you aren't confident in timing your own counter, or being able to choose which move to perform out of the counter if you think you can get it out in time, which, if you time it so it happens just when time stop starts, can be made way easier. And lastly, while getting into each standard's specific uses and strengths with time stop, I do like the sheer amount of versatility and options you put into a lot of moves, it really gives Tomoyo a ton of options to work with. Overall, I very much enjoyed this set a lot, it uses the time-stop gimmick very creatively, and in a unique way, and both has a lot of options to choose from, and benefits to each of those options that encourage varying your approaches based on your foe’s approaches.
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GolisoPower
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2017
- Messages
- 4,397
Thank you for your thoughts, Plague!
When I was designing her hitbox gimmick, I recall Touhou having an immense risk factor with the Grazing, and I tried all I could at the time to emulate it. Admittedly, I felt something was amiss, and I couldn't really put my finger on it, so I'm glad you pointed out the knockback. Looking back, Cloud's Finishing Touch would be devastating against her! XD As for the size, I suppose you're right, a thrown White Pikmin is really tiny, so I'll have to think bigger. Maybe the size of Hero's Frizz, or something?
Also, move synergy wasn't really something I had really thought about when making this set, and I'm glad you pointed that out. That is certainly something to keep in mind. So again, thank you.
EDIT: Patch Updates available, with descriptions of which moves can be good with which. Consider this practice for future sets.
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plague126
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2020
- Messages
- 35
Last edited:
Katapultar
Smash Lord
It's fun to get another set from you Reiga! From what I know you've just gotten back into the groove of MYM, and honestly the Pork Trooper is a nice return set if Damo was a warm-up. Maybe we should get another Piranha Plant movement up-and-running for this contest? We did get a set for Marauder, after all. But then it's looking like an unspoken movement for elite minions.
Pork Trooper has two decent concepts as-is: his Piggy Nose and Lightning Tower. I like the former because we don't get many sets with a move that can apply a hitbox to a basic movement animation. It's smart that you made the knockback vertical so you can't just chain hits on the foe cheaply, and it's good that you have awareness of the fact that it can combo into U-air. Heck, there's even room for mix-ups here to enhance the melee, like doing a 50/50 in whether you'll charge in for Pig Nose or do a Dash Attack or dash grab. If you were daring, you could even make Piggy Nose a chargable attack where you get it for multiple hits, maybe up to 5, so you can use your enhanced movement to combo better. Again, it's smart leaving it at 1 hit per Piggy Nose to prevent horn spam, but the vertical knockback balances itself out.
Oh, I also like how Pork Trooper gets slower when moving back from the foe and has a weakness of turning around. To enhance the set, you could even make a point about Pork Trooper being really threatening if he can corner his opponent. Could even make it so that some of his melee attacks give him the option of turning around mid-attack given he has the Ryu/Ken auto-turn mechanic in Piggy Nose, giving him an edge those SFs since he has to earn his auto-turn. The Pork Trooper is good at sniffing enemies out, after all! One way to implement this? Could make his D-Smash hit multiple times in front of him like his PK nemesis in Smash - still using the bombs since that's a nice, unique animation of flexing on the foe (do you by any chance watch Nux Taku videos? You even use the term "madlad" in the set once) - and if the foe got behind you after say the first or second hit you can get the third in, each hit getting progressively stronger than the last. Could even serve to knock the foe into a delayed lightning hitbox if you had a galaxy brain level set-up. It could be fun to see references to Lucas's smash moveset in this set, as I know that's one of the things I like about reading Smady's sets where he has a villain of a character who exists in Smash.
The delayed lightning hitbox is a fun enough base, one that a setmaker can do awesome things with and still be balanced, given you obviously can't spam delayed attacks too easily. While it's a pretty basic move from a glance, making it so the lightning won't strike below where you were when starting the move was actually a really smart move: making it so the Pork Trooper has to expose himself at ground level to have the lightning hit that low, not able to set it up near the top of the screen, plus he has to get super risky if he wants it to hit below the ledge as he has to go offstage. I love it.
While the set is pretty aware of the lightning's existence, I do have one issue: with Pork Trooper having movement options in Piggy Nose and the Pork Bean, I don't the stationary delayed hit works that well with those moves! That is to say it's tricky to set up the lightning tower and expect to easily knock the foe into it. If one thing, I'd say that you could get away with applying a decently long duration to the lightning bolt to make it easier to knock a foe into: the range limitations help to balance it out, and if you got it to hit below the ledge and wall off a recovering opponent then you earned it.
I also think you cold do fun things with the lightning to integrate it into Pork Trooper's melee game. This might be a tacky suggestion, but what if the horns on the Pork Trooper's head acted as a lightning rod? I don't know how in-character it is, but maybe the Pork Trooper could have a special pose he can hold out at the end of some of his moves (halfway into their end lag), similar to Bullet Arts, where maybe he poses or his horns glint. Perhaps the lightning could have a horizontal range for this, perhaps 6 grids, and maybe it gets weaker the farther it extended horizontally to hit Pork Trooper? It could be a fun way to threaten opponents and scare them from going above or around you, even keeping away from where the lightning will strike so you can bully them like the heavyweight bruiser you are.
Oh, and... what if the Pork Trooper had some hard interactions with his lightning if it hit him when he was doing certain moves? Would make perfect sense given how PK Thunder works when it hits those darn kids Ness and Lucas... and even his former boss Fassad! (remember how he strongman poses when he's hit by his PK Thunder? Could work here) Maybe you could even gain a buff or cancel your slower attacks with the lightning, given the Pork Trooper WAS trained to withstand the lightning!
I've talked a lot about suggestions for these two moves. Overall, I'd say that Pork Trooper is a fine set with a promising base and serviceable melee, but he definitely has room to apply his concepts for an intriguing playstyle of unfounded revenge and be a great set! If anything, writing this comment got my brain thinking about a lightning set based on the ideas I've mentioned, but if you wanted to apply them then that would be win too. Looking forward to seeing what you do with the Pork Trooper, how far you go, and of course seeing the JoJo sets and MHA stuff like Re-Destro. Getting pointers for improvement will definitely help the quality of those future sets - perhaps you'll even surpass Undyne in the near future?
One more thing: the writing in this set was a real gem. It has plenty of funny bits like "when finished it immediately goes ahead and fires a lightning bolt at the stage, which strikes the exact spot the Fierce Pork Trooper was standing when he made the phone call, probably because he didn’t give them actual directions of where to point it.", but the Side Special was the real winner with "One of the headlights is also broken. You could get fined for that, you know!" ,his hilarious animation of hanging out of the side of the car, which has DCMC stickers, and losing his personal car and having it replaced with a nondescript version if it's destroyed. The horror!
Pork Trooper has two decent concepts as-is: his Piggy Nose and Lightning Tower. I like the former because we don't get many sets with a move that can apply a hitbox to a basic movement animation. It's smart that you made the knockback vertical so you can't just chain hits on the foe cheaply, and it's good that you have awareness of the fact that it can combo into U-air. Heck, there's even room for mix-ups here to enhance the melee, like doing a 50/50 in whether you'll charge in for Pig Nose or do a Dash Attack or dash grab. If you were daring, you could even make Piggy Nose a chargable attack where you get it for multiple hits, maybe up to 5, so you can use your enhanced movement to combo better. Again, it's smart leaving it at 1 hit per Piggy Nose to prevent horn spam, but the vertical knockback balances itself out.
Oh, I also like how Pork Trooper gets slower when moving back from the foe and has a weakness of turning around. To enhance the set, you could even make a point about Pork Trooper being really threatening if he can corner his opponent. Could even make it so that some of his melee attacks give him the option of turning around mid-attack given he has the Ryu/Ken auto-turn mechanic in Piggy Nose, giving him an edge those SFs since he has to earn his auto-turn. The Pork Trooper is good at sniffing enemies out, after all! One way to implement this? Could make his D-Smash hit multiple times in front of him like his PK nemesis in Smash - still using the bombs since that's a nice, unique animation of flexing on the foe (do you by any chance watch Nux Taku videos? You even use the term "madlad" in the set once) - and if the foe got behind you after say the first or second hit you can get the third in, each hit getting progressively stronger than the last. Could even serve to knock the foe into a delayed lightning hitbox if you had a galaxy brain level set-up. It could be fun to see references to Lucas's smash moveset in this set, as I know that's one of the things I like about reading Smady's sets where he has a villain of a character who exists in Smash.
The delayed lightning hitbox is a fun enough base, one that a setmaker can do awesome things with and still be balanced, given you obviously can't spam delayed attacks too easily. While it's a pretty basic move from a glance, making it so the lightning won't strike below where you were when starting the move was actually a really smart move: making it so the Pork Trooper has to expose himself at ground level to have the lightning hit that low, not able to set it up near the top of the screen, plus he has to get super risky if he wants it to hit below the ledge as he has to go offstage. I love it.
While the set is pretty aware of the lightning's existence, I do have one issue: with Pork Trooper having movement options in Piggy Nose and the Pork Bean, I don't the stationary delayed hit works that well with those moves! That is to say it's tricky to set up the lightning tower and expect to easily knock the foe into it. If one thing, I'd say that you could get away with applying a decently long duration to the lightning bolt to make it easier to knock a foe into: the range limitations help to balance it out, and if you got it to hit below the ledge and wall off a recovering opponent then you earned it.
I also think you cold do fun things with the lightning to integrate it into Pork Trooper's melee game. This might be a tacky suggestion, but what if the horns on the Pork Trooper's head acted as a lightning rod? I don't know how in-character it is, but maybe the Pork Trooper could have a special pose he can hold out at the end of some of his moves (halfway into their end lag), similar to Bullet Arts, where maybe he poses or his horns glint. Perhaps the lightning could have a horizontal range for this, perhaps 6 grids, and maybe it gets weaker the farther it extended horizontally to hit Pork Trooper? It could be a fun way to threaten opponents and scare them from going above or around you, even keeping away from where the lightning will strike so you can bully them like the heavyweight bruiser you are.
Oh, and... what if the Pork Trooper had some hard interactions with his lightning if it hit him when he was doing certain moves? Would make perfect sense given how PK Thunder works when it hits those darn kids Ness and Lucas... and even his former boss Fassad! (remember how he strongman poses when he's hit by his PK Thunder? Could work here) Maybe you could even gain a buff or cancel your slower attacks with the lightning, given the Pork Trooper WAS trained to withstand the lightning!
I've talked a lot about suggestions for these two moves. Overall, I'd say that Pork Trooper is a fine set with a promising base and serviceable melee, but he definitely has room to apply his concepts for an intriguing playstyle of unfounded revenge and be a great set! If anything, writing this comment got my brain thinking about a lightning set based on the ideas I've mentioned, but if you wanted to apply them then that would be win too. Looking forward to seeing what you do with the Pork Trooper, how far you go, and of course seeing the JoJo sets and MHA stuff like Re-Destro. Getting pointers for improvement will definitely help the quality of those future sets - perhaps you'll even surpass Undyne in the near future?
One more thing: the writing in this set was a real gem. It has plenty of funny bits like "when finished it immediately goes ahead and fires a lightning bolt at the stage, which strikes the exact spot the Fierce Pork Trooper was standing when he made the phone call, probably because he didn’t give them actual directions of where to point it.", but the Side Special was the real winner with "One of the headlights is also broken. You could get fined for that, you know!" ,his hilarious animation of hanging out of the side of the car, which has DCMC stickers, and losing his personal car and having it replaced with a nondescript version if it's destroyed. The horror!
plague126
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2020
- Messages
- 35
GREETINGS, BASEBALL FANS! THIS IS GIOVANNI GREETING YOU FROM THE OUTFIELD STADIUM IN NEW YORK CITY, SCENES OF BASEBALL'S MID-SUMMER HIGHLIGHT BLISS OCEAN HEADQUARTERS-STAR GAME. THIS IS A GRAND SHOW, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! FROM NORTH, SOUTH, EAST AND WEST THEY'VE COME TO SING THE PRAISES OF GIOVANNI BALL PLAYERS
GIOVANNI POTAGE STIRS THE POT!
GIOVANNI POTAGE STIRS THE POT!
Katapultar
Smash Lord
Hey MYM, it's me, Kat. It's come back... again. How much do you remember?
FrozenRoy
Smash Lord
Mommy Too Moe (Mami Tomoe
Slavic
)
I've long been a fan of your sets, Slavic, even way back with stuff like Genjo Sanjo and Donnel. Make Your Move 22 felt like a noticeable step up for you, taking that untapped potential Make Your Move 19 showed with Gamagori/Sucy and really showing it off well with PaniK and Bakugo. Well if PaniK and Bakugo were a step up, then Mami was a leap forward!
Right off the bat Mami hits it off with a mechanic I like, a big ol' flashy chargable attack that gives Mami a bunch of extra options if she has a charge. Sets like Bashmaster and Aqua Fortis have done this before, but I really like the way Mami has such a flashy attack on top of it that feels like a true magical girl finisher blow (because it is) and the fact it plays nicely-yet-directly with her smashes, largely serving as a big substitution for her guns. It also nicely weaves into moves like her Side Special and Down Special, with Side Special able to lead into a weaker version while Down Special rewards Mami for long term gameplay with a Tiro Finale! strike that can kill incredibly early. Considering how hard it is to pull off it is more than balanced but gives Mami some alternative playstyle that would be hype as heeell if it went off in a tournament for example. The Side Special is actually quite a highlight, not only does it give Mami some much needed versatility but I quite like the options she gets. She can either go for a straight-up aerial starter but one that is very spacing dependant or a low percentage combo starter that becomes a vertical spacer that she appreciates thanks to moves like Up Smash, on top of that I'm a big fan of the way the command grab itself is plotted out, being a disjointed Quick Attack style of move that can play into Mami's smooth setup game on her standards. This is especially true when considering how the ribbons will interact with them. Is she going go to straight for one of her guns to take a shot or to otherwise mess with them like dragging them in, or maybe she will fake you out and snag you instead. Especially if you go to shield her shot!
While a bit understated I also think Up Special is a really cool Special (with some, ahem, nice shots), the grounded version offers Mami a more straight-forward blasting tool which is good because if she JUST had moves like her placed rifles + smashes it'd be too little. Not only is the gun-recoil style of mobility actually nice and gives Mami a bit more "unique" feel for spacing, one that even gives her different gameplay applications given it is less effective vs. range-y types but can be more effective vs. melee types, and I really like how the mobility is adjustable based on her Tiro Finale which not only matters for recovery but can adjust stuff like her ledge cancels ranges. On that note I like the ledge cancel options that give Mami some room for a more offensive bent. It would have been very easy to totally phone in this Up Special but it feels like you truly went the extra mile here!
But the fun doesn't stop there. I'm a pretty big fan of how the smashes work, usually focusing on some intense spacing multi-gun blasts that Mami can alter both the pattern of firing and mixing in a Tiro Finale! shot. Something like Forward Smash where you throw it out to really mix up your defensive or offensive options, going from stuff like anti-shorthop coverage, a middle + bottom range shot to shield poke and then you mix in a Tiro Finale! to trip them up with a powerful blow! Up Smash also has value with this but works into some more of her gameplay as a strong landing option, and combined with Up Special it gives Mami some good platform coverage. I also appreciate her best/strongest range options are commital in a pretty natural way. The way the bullets work also reminds me of some stuff I did with McCree and his bullet sweetspots, but with more finesse and in a much better overall set!
The standards feel like where the set truly wraps itself up with a bow and comes together though, showing off its chops combined with other attacks as more of an aggressive zoner/aggressive set than something too defensive. Dash Attack being such a "get in there" anti-shield tool really helps emphasize her playstyle and I like how it has a dodge weakness when attacks like Forward Smash, Down Smash and whatnot can cover dodges well feels like smart design. It all also plays into her Side Special as well which has the anti-shield command grab properties but combines them with Quick Attack style movement to also work well if the opponent is dodging or what have you. The usage of placed rifles on the standards felt brilliant to me, being largely self-contained and flowing extremely naturally into the set, it reminds me a lot of Master Xehanort actually in how I appreciate this kind of approach to setup. The placed rifles themselves add great layers to Mami's playstyle, truly making Side Special into a move of depth while giving Mami a good pressure tool as she strikes at foes while setting up for future shots, I like the idea of stuff like sliding Side Special past the foe to bring a rifle back or the way that the rifles aim with Esca out.
Oh, since I didn't talk about it before, I'm a fan of the Down Special's multi-use and the ability to decide on if you want to build it up to larger punishes or use it to reel opponents in to continue aggressive play. The ability to add in the counter-clone also gives a layer to Mami's aggressive set-play ability which can make opponents gunshy on pulling the trigger when she's in their face. Back to the standards, I enjoy their uses working with each other as a trinity when Forward Tilt as a generalist tool, Up Tilt as the strongest combo tool and Down Tilt being more of a defensive punisher. The way placed rifles work helps ensure Mami doesn't have too much of a campy or defensive nature what with the order of operations firing and their placement working more towards an aggressive usage.
Moving away from the pure set context for a bit, I am extrelemy impressed by Mami's characterization and the writing of this set. Not only can you really feel the fun Slavic had for the set bleeding through but I feel like Slavic really got across stuff like Mami's flashy fighting style (that even comes to a head in Episode 3) and her graceful nature. It also feels a lot more natural than before, PaniK's characterization was fun but probably due to the nature of how it got into the set it did sometimes come across as a bit forced or unnatural. This move has a lot of loving animations and comes to life very easily which makes the set easy to envision and helps get across a lot of cool visuals, it really feels like the kind of loving care Sakurai would give this set. It also made it a very breezy read despite being Slavic's longest set.
Quick-hits on aerials/grab game since I'm running kind of long on this comment, I think the Down Aerial is a pretty fun attack with some versatility to it and I like how it plays into the Dash Attack. I like the way that the landing hitbox works, it feels very natural, and the way it can lead to some crazy advanced shieldbreak setups, I wonder if it'd be fun if she could fire more than one shot with the landing hitbox but that might be too strong. Back Aerial isn't anything special but I do appreciate how the cross-up nature works and how it serves as a more alternative-yet-powerful reward for her setups when Tiro Finale! isn't ready and I bet you could snag people out from Up Special shenanigans with it. It might seem at odds with me liking Back Throw as I don't like "mechanic boosting" throws usually but this one avoids the biggest issue I have with them, which is making an easy grab version that nullifies the need to use the original move. By tying it into needing to land Esca to begin with, it requires Mami to not just skip out on the base attack and instead works as a smooth addition. Given Esca is a counter it also helps with one issue these counter-mechanics can have where landing it is too hard to get it too high.
For complaints, I ultimately have few. I do think Down Throw should have that edit I suggested to you where she can fire a placed rifle to avoid the more disadvantageous state and so reward her for some tricky setup, and F-Throw should have a slight damage boost. Some of the aerials aren't total standouts but honestly that isn't even a complaint because moves like NAir are not only functional but have fun uses in my head, so they aren't really bad. Maybe Up Special could be woven into the set a bit more? The balance is pretty kino once Down Special was made less UP, so complaints are pretty minor here.
Mami Tomoe is a set where everything comes together just right. Strong execution, crisp concepts, explosive characterization, it all is wrapped up in one big package. Not only is it your best set yet Slavic but I would say it isn't particularly close, with Mami being a rather strong 9 combined to PaniK's low 8, and it has me very excited for how your future plans will turn out! To be honest, this set was so good that it had me rethinking how I would approach a Sayaka set because I feel like how you handled Mami was so well done. Excellente~
Slavic
)I've long been a fan of your sets, Slavic, even way back with stuff like Genjo Sanjo and Donnel. Make Your Move 22 felt like a noticeable step up for you, taking that untapped potential Make Your Move 19 showed with Gamagori/Sucy and really showing it off well with PaniK and Bakugo. Well if PaniK and Bakugo were a step up, then Mami was a leap forward!
Right off the bat Mami hits it off with a mechanic I like, a big ol' flashy chargable attack that gives Mami a bunch of extra options if she has a charge. Sets like Bashmaster and Aqua Fortis have done this before, but I really like the way Mami has such a flashy attack on top of it that feels like a true magical girl finisher blow (because it is) and the fact it plays nicely-yet-directly with her smashes, largely serving as a big substitution for her guns. It also nicely weaves into moves like her Side Special and Down Special, with Side Special able to lead into a weaker version while Down Special rewards Mami for long term gameplay with a Tiro Finale! strike that can kill incredibly early. Considering how hard it is to pull off it is more than balanced but gives Mami some alternative playstyle that would be hype as heeell if it went off in a tournament for example. The Side Special is actually quite a highlight, not only does it give Mami some much needed versatility but I quite like the options she gets. She can either go for a straight-up aerial starter but one that is very spacing dependant or a low percentage combo starter that becomes a vertical spacer that she appreciates thanks to moves like Up Smash, on top of that I'm a big fan of the way the command grab itself is plotted out, being a disjointed Quick Attack style of move that can play into Mami's smooth setup game on her standards. This is especially true when considering how the ribbons will interact with them. Is she going go to straight for one of her guns to take a shot or to otherwise mess with them like dragging them in, or maybe she will fake you out and snag you instead. Especially if you go to shield her shot!
While a bit understated I also think Up Special is a really cool Special (with some, ahem, nice shots), the grounded version offers Mami a more straight-forward blasting tool which is good because if she JUST had moves like her placed rifles + smashes it'd be too little. Not only is the gun-recoil style of mobility actually nice and gives Mami a bit more "unique" feel for spacing, one that even gives her different gameplay applications given it is less effective vs. range-y types but can be more effective vs. melee types, and I really like how the mobility is adjustable based on her Tiro Finale which not only matters for recovery but can adjust stuff like her ledge cancels ranges. On that note I like the ledge cancel options that give Mami some room for a more offensive bent. It would have been very easy to totally phone in this Up Special but it feels like you truly went the extra mile here!
But the fun doesn't stop there. I'm a pretty big fan of how the smashes work, usually focusing on some intense spacing multi-gun blasts that Mami can alter both the pattern of firing and mixing in a Tiro Finale! shot. Something like Forward Smash where you throw it out to really mix up your defensive or offensive options, going from stuff like anti-shorthop coverage, a middle + bottom range shot to shield poke and then you mix in a Tiro Finale! to trip them up with a powerful blow! Up Smash also has value with this but works into some more of her gameplay as a strong landing option, and combined with Up Special it gives Mami some good platform coverage. I also appreciate her best/strongest range options are commital in a pretty natural way. The way the bullets work also reminds me of some stuff I did with McCree and his bullet sweetspots, but with more finesse and in a much better overall set!
The standards feel like where the set truly wraps itself up with a bow and comes together though, showing off its chops combined with other attacks as more of an aggressive zoner/aggressive set than something too defensive. Dash Attack being such a "get in there" anti-shield tool really helps emphasize her playstyle and I like how it has a dodge weakness when attacks like Forward Smash, Down Smash and whatnot can cover dodges well feels like smart design. It all also plays into her Side Special as well which has the anti-shield command grab properties but combines them with Quick Attack style movement to also work well if the opponent is dodging or what have you. The usage of placed rifles on the standards felt brilliant to me, being largely self-contained and flowing extremely naturally into the set, it reminds me a lot of Master Xehanort actually in how I appreciate this kind of approach to setup. The placed rifles themselves add great layers to Mami's playstyle, truly making Side Special into a move of depth while giving Mami a good pressure tool as she strikes at foes while setting up for future shots, I like the idea of stuff like sliding Side Special past the foe to bring a rifle back or the way that the rifles aim with Esca out.
Oh, since I didn't talk about it before, I'm a fan of the Down Special's multi-use and the ability to decide on if you want to build it up to larger punishes or use it to reel opponents in to continue aggressive play. The ability to add in the counter-clone also gives a layer to Mami's aggressive set-play ability which can make opponents gunshy on pulling the trigger when she's in their face. Back to the standards, I enjoy their uses working with each other as a trinity when Forward Tilt as a generalist tool, Up Tilt as the strongest combo tool and Down Tilt being more of a defensive punisher. The way placed rifles work helps ensure Mami doesn't have too much of a campy or defensive nature what with the order of operations firing and their placement working more towards an aggressive usage.
Moving away from the pure set context for a bit, I am extrelemy impressed by Mami's characterization and the writing of this set. Not only can you really feel the fun Slavic had for the set bleeding through but I feel like Slavic really got across stuff like Mami's flashy fighting style (that even comes to a head in Episode 3) and her graceful nature. It also feels a lot more natural than before, PaniK's characterization was fun but probably due to the nature of how it got into the set it did sometimes come across as a bit forced or unnatural. This move has a lot of loving animations and comes to life very easily which makes the set easy to envision and helps get across a lot of cool visuals, it really feels like the kind of loving care Sakurai would give this set. It also made it a very breezy read despite being Slavic's longest set.
Quick-hits on aerials/grab game since I'm running kind of long on this comment, I think the Down Aerial is a pretty fun attack with some versatility to it and I like how it plays into the Dash Attack. I like the way that the landing hitbox works, it feels very natural, and the way it can lead to some crazy advanced shieldbreak setups, I wonder if it'd be fun if she could fire more than one shot with the landing hitbox but that might be too strong. Back Aerial isn't anything special but I do appreciate how the cross-up nature works and how it serves as a more alternative-yet-powerful reward for her setups when Tiro Finale! isn't ready and I bet you could snag people out from Up Special shenanigans with it. It might seem at odds with me liking Back Throw as I don't like "mechanic boosting" throws usually but this one avoids the biggest issue I have with them, which is making an easy grab version that nullifies the need to use the original move. By tying it into needing to land Esca to begin with, it requires Mami to not just skip out on the base attack and instead works as a smooth addition. Given Esca is a counter it also helps with one issue these counter-mechanics can have where landing it is too hard to get it too high.
For complaints, I ultimately have few. I do think Down Throw should have that edit I suggested to you where she can fire a placed rifle to avoid the more disadvantageous state and so reward her for some tricky setup, and F-Throw should have a slight damage boost. Some of the aerials aren't total standouts but honestly that isn't even a complaint because moves like NAir are not only functional but have fun uses in my head, so they aren't really bad. Maybe Up Special could be woven into the set a bit more? The balance is pretty kino once Down Special was made less UP, so complaints are pretty minor here.
Mami Tomoe is a set where everything comes together just right. Strong execution, crisp concepts, explosive characterization, it all is wrapped up in one big package. Not only is it your best set yet Slavic but I would say it isn't particularly close, with Mami being a rather strong 9 combined to PaniK's low 8, and it has me very excited for how your future plans will turn out! To be honest, this set was so good that it had me rethinking how I would approach a Sayaka set because I feel like how you handled Mami was so well done. Excellente~
Katapultar
Smash Lord
Giovanni has been a character I’ve been hype for ever since his preview got me to watch Epithet Erased, a show that will absolutely hopefully get more sets in the near future. With that said, you’ve done a great job representing him early in your career! I’m happy to say that Giovanni is an improvement over Ethan, namely in his concepts, presentation (pictures are great), animations and characterisation.
You did a very good job at capturing a trait that is seldomly seen among minion sets: a summoner who actually CARES about their minions! Not only in the writing, but making Giovanni cry when his minion is defeated (it would be fun if they got knocked out and their body laid there in the background for X time you can’t summon another one, similar to the show). That’s a fun concept to explore, and it does straight-up give Giovanni an incentive to aid his minions rather than sit and camp like the boss he doesn’t want to be.
I also really enjoyed the minion animations in response to Giovanni doing certain attacks near them. That makes them feel like actual people, a sharp contrast to a non-living minion who wouldn’t react, and is honestly something that could be easy to overlook in a minion set. Great job here, it captures a lot of the humour of the series and Giovanni being a goof at times. It’s also interesting for balance gameplay-wise, as I assume that the minion would stop in the middle of their attack to do their dodging animation - making Ben’s grab not as powerful as it sounds, but that’s actually balanced if the foe can act when Giovanni attacks nearby given that putting grabs on minions tends to be overpowered. It’s an interesting balance mechanic where you can’t have the minion attack while you’re doing an attack near them, the kind of fun thing I would love to see explored in a full-fledged minion set.
Critical 13 is a fun concept, essentially a controlled version of Hero’s RNG critical mechanic. Kudos to you for attempting this, because it’s a tricky concept to make super compelling without great melee knowledge. For once I can see how essential comboing is to the 13 mechanic and why there’s a big emphasis on it. It can get redundant though, as many moves have a focus on comboing and even overlap in uses - Neutral and Side Special are pretty similar in both being projectiles that deal upwards knockback, plus N-air and F-air are both drag-downs that hit in front of Giovanni. It’s understandable when you’re working with a mechanic that gives your 13th move a flat damage boost though, and you’ve done a pretty good job at giving Giovanni a number of combo options but also KO stuff like B-air and U-air.
I do like how the minions work in with Crit 13: they can rack up hits but not trigger the crit themselves, which is rewarding in itself for how risky it is to have the minions out. Maybe Flamethrower could throw out multiple pellets from his gun, with the 2nd and 3rd hits not dealing knockback but racking up hits for Giovanni? Also, maybe Car Crash’s punch could deal knockback towards Giovanni? He does run pretty fast, would be difficult for even Giovanni to catch up to him and get to the other side where he can exploit the horizontal knockback for combos. It would also balance out Car Crash being risky to use, as his reckless driving- behaviour would make him prone to running into a foe’s attack and triggering Giovannis’ vulnerable crying state. But if Car Crash got the punch, it could even combo into a Crit 13 F-Smash! Oh, and speaking of F-Smash, it could be fun if Giovanni could reflect Flamethrower’s bullets. There truly are a lot of possibilities with minions!
(I don’t think D-throw’s healing on minions needs a cooldown at all, given you would need to commit to the action in the first place)
There is one Smash element that is overlooked in the set, but I think would make the Critical 13 mechanic more appealing: how Giovanni’s moves work against shields. Maybe they deal their extra damage to shields, but no extra shield stun or push - still as punishable as ever, but potentially breaking a shield with enough damage. I could see foes just getting super wary when Giovanni’s Crit 13 is active, specifically of his F-Smash - maybe that move is unsafe on block, but you have other moves that can get around shielding?
You could even be flexible with the bonuses Crit 13 applies. For instance, it could deal a flat damage boost of… 20% or so, making it useful to hit with even a weak move. Maybe even change the knockback properties of some moves, like U-tilt dealing downwards knockback that can start a tech chase on a crit? Or the Side Special knife causing a longer crumple animation, similar to Ryu’s Focus Attack?
Giovanni’s “Lava Grenade” is pretty harmless in the canon, just splats on the enemy’s face, so seeing it deal 15% and upwards knockback was rather unexpected. Maybe Giovanni has a tapped, semi-spammable version that he can use to rack up hits, but deals no hitstun and will get laughed off by opponents… unless it was the 13th hit, in which case they’ll get tripped or receive knockback. Maybe he could chuck the ball into the air/in general with similar controls to say, Snake’s grenade or Yoshi’s egg toss, have it come down as a delayed hitbox that could rack up his hit count to convenient effect when timed right.
For all my talking and suggestions, Giovanni was definitely an enjoyable set! He is exactly the kind of “more regular” character I was interested in you seeing doing after the less orthodox Ethan and Wobbler, with more obvious character and powers to play off that you actually do quite well. Definitely interested in Jason or more characters from Epithet Erased, but if you wanted to edit Giovanni I would be definitely up to help as I’d love to see Giovanni in the Top 50! (or higher) This set has a lot of potential, and it would be great to see it fully realised.
You did a very good job at capturing a trait that is seldomly seen among minion sets: a summoner who actually CARES about their minions! Not only in the writing, but making Giovanni cry when his minion is defeated (it would be fun if they got knocked out and their body laid there in the background for X time you can’t summon another one, similar to the show). That’s a fun concept to explore, and it does straight-up give Giovanni an incentive to aid his minions rather than sit and camp like the boss he doesn’t want to be.
I also really enjoyed the minion animations in response to Giovanni doing certain attacks near them. That makes them feel like actual people, a sharp contrast to a non-living minion who wouldn’t react, and is honestly something that could be easy to overlook in a minion set. Great job here, it captures a lot of the humour of the series and Giovanni being a goof at times. It’s also interesting for balance gameplay-wise, as I assume that the minion would stop in the middle of their attack to do their dodging animation - making Ben’s grab not as powerful as it sounds, but that’s actually balanced if the foe can act when Giovanni attacks nearby given that putting grabs on minions tends to be overpowered. It’s an interesting balance mechanic where you can’t have the minion attack while you’re doing an attack near them, the kind of fun thing I would love to see explored in a full-fledged minion set.
Critical 13 is a fun concept, essentially a controlled version of Hero’s RNG critical mechanic. Kudos to you for attempting this, because it’s a tricky concept to make super compelling without great melee knowledge. For once I can see how essential comboing is to the 13 mechanic and why there’s a big emphasis on it. It can get redundant though, as many moves have a focus on comboing and even overlap in uses - Neutral and Side Special are pretty similar in both being projectiles that deal upwards knockback, plus N-air and F-air are both drag-downs that hit in front of Giovanni. It’s understandable when you’re working with a mechanic that gives your 13th move a flat damage boost though, and you’ve done a pretty good job at giving Giovanni a number of combo options but also KO stuff like B-air and U-air.
I do like how the minions work in with Crit 13: they can rack up hits but not trigger the crit themselves, which is rewarding in itself for how risky it is to have the minions out. Maybe Flamethrower could throw out multiple pellets from his gun, with the 2nd and 3rd hits not dealing knockback but racking up hits for Giovanni? Also, maybe Car Crash’s punch could deal knockback towards Giovanni? He does run pretty fast, would be difficult for even Giovanni to catch up to him and get to the other side where he can exploit the horizontal knockback for combos. It would also balance out Car Crash being risky to use, as his reckless driving- behaviour would make him prone to running into a foe’s attack and triggering Giovannis’ vulnerable crying state. But if Car Crash got the punch, it could even combo into a Crit 13 F-Smash! Oh, and speaking of F-Smash, it could be fun if Giovanni could reflect Flamethrower’s bullets. There truly are a lot of possibilities with minions!
(I don’t think D-throw’s healing on minions needs a cooldown at all, given you would need to commit to the action in the first place)
There is one Smash element that is overlooked in the set, but I think would make the Critical 13 mechanic more appealing: how Giovanni’s moves work against shields. Maybe they deal their extra damage to shields, but no extra shield stun or push - still as punishable as ever, but potentially breaking a shield with enough damage. I could see foes just getting super wary when Giovanni’s Crit 13 is active, specifically of his F-Smash - maybe that move is unsafe on block, but you have other moves that can get around shielding?
You could even be flexible with the bonuses Crit 13 applies. For instance, it could deal a flat damage boost of… 20% or so, making it useful to hit with even a weak move. Maybe even change the knockback properties of some moves, like U-tilt dealing downwards knockback that can start a tech chase on a crit? Or the Side Special knife causing a longer crumple animation, similar to Ryu’s Focus Attack?
Giovanni’s “Lava Grenade” is pretty harmless in the canon, just splats on the enemy’s face, so seeing it deal 15% and upwards knockback was rather unexpected. Maybe Giovanni has a tapped, semi-spammable version that he can use to rack up hits, but deals no hitstun and will get laughed off by opponents… unless it was the 13th hit, in which case they’ll get tripped or receive knockback. Maybe he could chuck the ball into the air/in general with similar controls to say, Snake’s grenade or Yoshi’s egg toss, have it come down as a delayed hitbox that could rack up his hit count to convenient effect when timed right.
For all my talking and suggestions, Giovanni was definitely an enjoyable set! He is exactly the kind of “more regular” character I was interested in you seeing doing after the less orthodox Ethan and Wobbler, with more obvious character and powers to play off that you actually do quite well. Definitely interested in Jason or more characters from Epithet Erased, but if you wanted to edit Giovanni I would be definitely up to help as I’d love to see Giovanni in the Top 50! (or higher) This set has a lot of potential, and it would be great to see it fully realised.
Last edited:
NeonVoid
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2019
- Messages
- 212
This has taken a lot of thought, ideas and support, and I hope you all appreciate it! Given that Cinderace is a likely candidate for SSBU, I figured I would make this as realistic as possible, meaning this moveset is a full package, including the classic route, the stage, and more!
If you have any questions, please let me know!
If you have any questions, please let me know!
Why Cinderace?
Currently, Cinderace is noted as the most popular new starter Pokemon, and perhaps one of the best new Pokemon in Sword and Shield. Not only that, but Cinderace has some of the cleanest animations in the game, most noteworthy is Pyro Ball. Because of that, I have been able to design a moveset which i'd say makes Cinderace somewhat original, compared to the other two fire Pokemon.
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Jabs: Cinderace will throw out a series of fists.
Side Tilt: Cinderace will release a roundhouse kick directly in front of it.
Up Tilt: Cinderace will simply hop up and use a headbutt upwards like a soccer player when they use their heads. (imagine Pikachu's up grab)
Down Tilt: Kind of like Pikachu's down tilt, Cinderace will do a low sweep kick on the ground. This generally has a 30% chance to trip the opponents.
Dash Attack: Cinderace will simply charge forward and slam its elbow into the opponent and push them down towards the ground (imagine the taunt that Incineroar does when he lands his dash attack).
Neutral Aerial: Nothing too special to this, Cinderace will cover himself in flames like Flare Blitz, having a hitbox that surrounds him. This works somewhat like Pikachu's nair.
Forward Aerial: This move would run like Captain Falcons kick, where Cinderace jabs a flaming knee forward.
Back Aerial: Cinderace will rotate 180* and slam the back of his foot into the opponent.
Up Aerial: Once in the air, Cinderace will backflip into an uppercut kick.
Down Aerial: Nothing much, but you can spike opponents. Cinderace will stomp two feet directly below him, one at a time (imagine the motion where Kirby/Meta Knight does a downward grab).
Forward Smash: Cinderace now has a stronger roundhouse kick, which slams forward.
Down Smash: Cinderace will almost literally break dance and move his feet around him, covering both the front and the back.
Up Smash: Cinderace does a backflip like his up air and swings his feet above him.
Basic Grabs: Cinderace will grab the opponent and knee them in the stomach.
Forward Throw: Cinderace will push the opponent in front of him and push him away using his foot (good going into a down tilt).
Down Throw: Cinderace will do what Greninja does for his Down B and will simply throw the opponent towards the ground. Like Greninja, this is good for transitioning into combos.
Up Throw: Cinderace will headbutt the opponent upright, kind of like how a soccer player would hit a ball with their head.
Neutral B - Pyro Ball: The charge time would be the same as Water Shuriken, but the Pyro Ball can bounce around the stage. Tap B for a small Pyro Ball (good for edgeguarding), but hold for a large and durable one that can bounce across the ground and off the stage. After charging, you can press B at any time to release it (unless you get hit), so Cinderace can maneuver the ball within his feet while moving. You can even kick it behind you while offstage if you flick the joystick and press B at the right time. This move has roughly the same animation as in Sword and Shield, which includes the clean sound effects.
Side B - Iron Head: Cinderace would charge forward and slam his head into the opponent. This can be used for knockback, but could leave you vulnerable if you missed (imagine Banjos side B). This move will spike an opponent upon contact if hit while offstage.
Up B - High Jump Kick: When recovering after being hit off stage, Cinderace will move upward like Captain. Falcon, but at breakneck speed. On the ground, Cinderace will charge ahead and do a 360* spin kick and deal a good amount of damage (like Little Mac’s neutral B, but without charge time and vulnerability frames).
Down B - Court Change: This move, like previous Pokemon, acts as a counter, but additionally acts as reflect. Cinderace will summon a court area with a white mist in front and behind him (like Pit’s reflect). If an opponent sends a projectile into the field, Cinderace will reverse it onto the opponent. If the opponent attacks the court area, they will be slowed for a few frames and Cinderace will drop kick them (sort of like Greninja’s Substitute, where the opponent gets slowed before getting hit).
Gimmick - Blaze: Unlike Charizard and Incineroar, this will be the first time that the Blaze ability is implemented in a character. Once Cinderace gets past 100%, he will become even faster and more aggressive, and all of his special moves will receive buffs. Unlike Terry, these specials do not have some complex combos, and just come natural. Aesthetically, Cinderace will start to glow, and a red aura will be radiating from Cinderace’s body. The red parts, such as the head and feet will look heated. (Inspiration taken from Toxiquid on YouTube).
Blaze Neutral B: This time, your Pyro Ball charges will be extra big, and the fully-charged Pyro Ball is now twice the size. These moves can kill early, killing most lightweights at 60%. These Pyro Balls have immense knockback, meaning you can knock out an opponent easily if they’re near the blast zone.
Blaze Side B - Iron Head/Flame Charge: This will become a combination move. Given that Cinderace is filled with fire energy, this special can be extremely powerful. Cinderace can practically dash across the stage with ease and use this move a lot more times at once, meaning less vulnerability frames. Not only does this spike, but if you hit an opponent on the ground, they will hit the stage floor and slam upwards, also making the opponent unable to tech.
Blaze Up B - Blaze Dive: Cinderace will still have the momentum of High Jump Kick for recovery. If the opponent is airborne, Cinderace can charge up and grab with this move (like Captain Falcon or Ganondorf) and then launch the opponent further up into the blast zone. On the ground, Cinderace will charge in the direction he’s facing and grab the opponent (like Incineroar’s side B, but with further range). From there, Cinderace will do a front flip upwards and dive a knee downward into the opponent. If the momentum is timed right, this can launch opponents below the stage to their death.
Blaze Down B - Flaming Court: Theoretically, this move works practically the same as Court Change, but with a twist. This time, the courts have a red aura, and when an opponent or projectile hits inside them, Cinderace will expel fire from his body across the stage. If an opponent gets hit by this, they will take minimal damage for a few seconds (like Joker’s side B).
Final Smash - G-Max Cinderace: Cinderace (like Giga Bowser) will enlarge and will be able to kick its strong, "mind of its own" Pyro Ball towards the stage, where it will bounce around in an unpredictable pattern. The background behind Cinderace will be red, like the Dynamax clouds.
Speed & Jumps: Cinderace will maintain a low jumping distance, but can move extremely fast. While High Jump Kick is an excellent recovery option, Cinderace’s speed and jumps are somewhat on par with Little Mac.
Out of Shield (OoS) options: Great, as Cinderace has a lot of options after shield buffers and other moves, almost like Chrom & Roy.
Weight: Average
Rolls: Fast. Cinderace will leap forward into a barrel roll.
Up Taunt: Kicks the ground and kicks around a small pebble.
Side Taunt: Proudly pounds his fists up with excitement.
Down Taunt: Gets down on his knees and roars, like in Sword and Shield (more specifically the Dynamax starting animation without Dynamaxing).
Win Animation #1: Cinderace is seen doing all sorts of flips and kicking a Pyro Ball in a circular motion around him. This ends with Cinderace taking a kneel and having his foot on top of the ball like a soccer player. Very stylish overall.
Win Animation #2: Cinderace is running all over the place, leaving trails of fire behind him, and lands in a fighting stance, smiling.
Win Animation #3: This will be unique, as you’ll get a background view of Cinderace jumping from another distant island, and he will land on his knees, skidding across the ground and leaving fire behind him.
Idle Animation: Cinderace will follow his idle animation from Sword and Shield, where he will eventually start to kick a pebble and turn it into a Pyro Ball. Cinderace will kick it over his head, and the ball will disappear. This is unique, where an opponent can actually take damage if hit by the ball.
(I know, this won’t really have any effect in competition, it’s just there as an easter egg)
Analysis: Cinderace is a highly unique fighter with quick speed, stylish combos and animations, and strong options for combo starters and kill confirms. Edgeguarding has been built into this character’s concept, with Pyro ball and Iron Head being great utility moves. Out of shield options give Cinderace a great deal of flexibility, and speed allows it to easily bait and punish his opponents. Cinderace thrives in the advantage state, and the ability to go offstage with Iron Head, as well as using bair/fair can easily make Cinderace a threat to you once you’re off that stage, especially if Cinderace can read you.
Difficulty - Hard: For any player devoted to Cinderace, it will be difficult to control his mechanics, as you have a lot of risky scenarios with a high reward. Court Change and Iron Head leave you vulnerable, which could end in a quick defeat if you're not careful. If you know Cinderace's combos and can time your smash attacks just right, then you might be able to quickly gain control, regardless of being in the disadvantage state.
Fighter Classification (Hit & Run/Zoner): Depending on how you play, Cinderace can easily be used to quickly approach the opponent for close-combat attacks and get out of the opponents range just as easy, due to a small hurtbox from the front and back ends. Cinderace can also classify as a Zoner thanks to Pyro Ball. Like Pikachu’s thunder jolts, Pyro Ball is a great option for edgeguarding and stalling the opponent, as it can go off the screen to hit an opponent into the blast zone, as well as bouncing under the stage when necessary. A lot of moves give Cinderace quite the variety of uniqueness!
Currently, Cinderace is noted as the most popular new starter Pokemon, and perhaps one of the best new Pokemon in Sword and Shield. Not only that, but Cinderace has some of the cleanest animations in the game, most noteworthy is Pyro Ball. Because of that, I have been able to design a moveset which i'd say makes Cinderace somewhat original, compared to the other two fire Pokemon.
Jabs: Cinderace will throw out a series of fists.
Side Tilt: Cinderace will release a roundhouse kick directly in front of it.
Up Tilt: Cinderace will simply hop up and use a headbutt upwards like a soccer player when they use their heads. (imagine Pikachu's up grab)
Down Tilt: Kind of like Pikachu's down tilt, Cinderace will do a low sweep kick on the ground. This generally has a 30% chance to trip the opponents.
Dash Attack: Cinderace will simply charge forward and slam its elbow into the opponent and push them down towards the ground (imagine the taunt that Incineroar does when he lands his dash attack).
Neutral Aerial: Nothing too special to this, Cinderace will cover himself in flames like Flare Blitz, having a hitbox that surrounds him. This works somewhat like Pikachu's nair.
Forward Aerial: This move would run like Captain Falcons kick, where Cinderace jabs a flaming knee forward.
Back Aerial: Cinderace will rotate 180* and slam the back of his foot into the opponent.
Up Aerial: Once in the air, Cinderace will backflip into an uppercut kick.
Down Aerial: Nothing much, but you can spike opponents. Cinderace will stomp two feet directly below him, one at a time (imagine the motion where Kirby/Meta Knight does a downward grab).
Forward Smash: Cinderace now has a stronger roundhouse kick, which slams forward.
Down Smash: Cinderace will almost literally break dance and move his feet around him, covering both the front and the back.
Up Smash: Cinderace does a backflip like his up air and swings his feet above him.
Basic Grabs: Cinderace will grab the opponent and knee them in the stomach.
Forward Throw: Cinderace will push the opponent in front of him and push him away using his foot (good going into a down tilt).
Down Throw: Cinderace will do what Greninja does for his Down B and will simply throw the opponent towards the ground. Like Greninja, this is good for transitioning into combos.
Up Throw: Cinderace will headbutt the opponent upright, kind of like how a soccer player would hit a ball with their head.
Neutral B - Pyro Ball: The charge time would be the same as Water Shuriken, but the Pyro Ball can bounce around the stage. Tap B for a small Pyro Ball (good for edgeguarding), but hold for a large and durable one that can bounce across the ground and off the stage. After charging, you can press B at any time to release it (unless you get hit), so Cinderace can maneuver the ball within his feet while moving. You can even kick it behind you while offstage if you flick the joystick and press B at the right time. This move has roughly the same animation as in Sword and Shield, which includes the clean sound effects.
Side B - Iron Head: Cinderace would charge forward and slam his head into the opponent. This can be used for knockback, but could leave you vulnerable if you missed (imagine Banjos side B). This move will spike an opponent upon contact if hit while offstage.
Up B - High Jump Kick: When recovering after being hit off stage, Cinderace will move upward like Captain. Falcon, but at breakneck speed. On the ground, Cinderace will charge ahead and do a 360* spin kick and deal a good amount of damage (like Little Mac’s neutral B, but without charge time and vulnerability frames).
Down B - Court Change: This move, like previous Pokemon, acts as a counter, but additionally acts as reflect. Cinderace will summon a court area with a white mist in front and behind him (like Pit’s reflect). If an opponent sends a projectile into the field, Cinderace will reverse it onto the opponent. If the opponent attacks the court area, they will be slowed for a few frames and Cinderace will drop kick them (sort of like Greninja’s Substitute, where the opponent gets slowed before getting hit).
Gimmick - Blaze: Unlike Charizard and Incineroar, this will be the first time that the Blaze ability is implemented in a character. Once Cinderace gets past 100%, he will become even faster and more aggressive, and all of his special moves will receive buffs. Unlike Terry, these specials do not have some complex combos, and just come natural. Aesthetically, Cinderace will start to glow, and a red aura will be radiating from Cinderace’s body. The red parts, such as the head and feet will look heated. (Inspiration taken from Toxiquid on YouTube).
Blaze Neutral B: This time, your Pyro Ball charges will be extra big, and the fully-charged Pyro Ball is now twice the size. These moves can kill early, killing most lightweights at 60%. These Pyro Balls have immense knockback, meaning you can knock out an opponent easily if they’re near the blast zone.
Blaze Side B - Iron Head/Flame Charge: This will become a combination move. Given that Cinderace is filled with fire energy, this special can be extremely powerful. Cinderace can practically dash across the stage with ease and use this move a lot more times at once, meaning less vulnerability frames. Not only does this spike, but if you hit an opponent on the ground, they will hit the stage floor and slam upwards, also making the opponent unable to tech.
Blaze Up B - Blaze Dive: Cinderace will still have the momentum of High Jump Kick for recovery. If the opponent is airborne, Cinderace can charge up and grab with this move (like Captain Falcon or Ganondorf) and then launch the opponent further up into the blast zone. On the ground, Cinderace will charge in the direction he’s facing and grab the opponent (like Incineroar’s side B, but with further range). From there, Cinderace will do a front flip upwards and dive a knee downward into the opponent. If the momentum is timed right, this can launch opponents below the stage to their death.
Blaze Down B - Flaming Court: Theoretically, this move works practically the same as Court Change, but with a twist. This time, the courts have a red aura, and when an opponent or projectile hits inside them, Cinderace will expel fire from his body across the stage. If an opponent gets hit by this, they will take minimal damage for a few seconds (like Joker’s side B).
Final Smash - G-Max Cinderace: Cinderace (like Giga Bowser) will enlarge and will be able to kick its strong, "mind of its own" Pyro Ball towards the stage, where it will bounce around in an unpredictable pattern. The background behind Cinderace will be red, like the Dynamax clouds.
Speed & Jumps: Cinderace will maintain a low jumping distance, but can move extremely fast. While High Jump Kick is an excellent recovery option, Cinderace’s speed and jumps are somewhat on par with Little Mac.
Out of Shield (OoS) options: Great, as Cinderace has a lot of options after shield buffers and other moves, almost like Chrom & Roy.
Weight: Average
Rolls: Fast. Cinderace will leap forward into a barrel roll.
Up Taunt: Kicks the ground and kicks around a small pebble.
Side Taunt: Proudly pounds his fists up with excitement.
Down Taunt: Gets down on his knees and roars, like in Sword and Shield (more specifically the Dynamax starting animation without Dynamaxing).
Win Animation #1: Cinderace is seen doing all sorts of flips and kicking a Pyro Ball in a circular motion around him. This ends with Cinderace taking a kneel and having his foot on top of the ball like a soccer player. Very stylish overall.
Win Animation #2: Cinderace is running all over the place, leaving trails of fire behind him, and lands in a fighting stance, smiling.
Win Animation #3: This will be unique, as you’ll get a background view of Cinderace jumping from another distant island, and he will land on his knees, skidding across the ground and leaving fire behind him.
Idle Animation: Cinderace will follow his idle animation from Sword and Shield, where he will eventually start to kick a pebble and turn it into a Pyro Ball. Cinderace will kick it over his head, and the ball will disappear. This is unique, where an opponent can actually take damage if hit by the ball.
(I know, this won’t really have any effect in competition, it’s just there as an easter egg)
Analysis: Cinderace is a highly unique fighter with quick speed, stylish combos and animations, and strong options for combo starters and kill confirms. Edgeguarding has been built into this character’s concept, with Pyro ball and Iron Head being great utility moves. Out of shield options give Cinderace a great deal of flexibility, and speed allows it to easily bait and punish his opponents. Cinderace thrives in the advantage state, and the ability to go offstage with Iron Head, as well as using bair/fair can easily make Cinderace a threat to you once you’re off that stage, especially if Cinderace can read you.
Difficulty - Hard: For any player devoted to Cinderace, it will be difficult to control his mechanics, as you have a lot of risky scenarios with a high reward. Court Change and Iron Head leave you vulnerable, which could end in a quick defeat if you're not careful. If you know Cinderace's combos and can time your smash attacks just right, then you might be able to quickly gain control, regardless of being in the disadvantage state.
Fighter Classification (Hit & Run/Zoner): Depending on how you play, Cinderace can easily be used to quickly approach the opponent for close-combat attacks and get out of the opponents range just as easy, due to a small hurtbox from the front and back ends. Cinderace can also classify as a Zoner thanks to Pyro Ball. Like Pikachu’s thunder jolts, Pyro Ball is a great option for edgeguarding and stalling the opponent, as it can go off the screen to hit an opponent into the blast zone, as well as bouncing under the stage when necessary. A lot of moves give Cinderace quite the variety of uniqueness!
Courageous Spirit!
In this route, Cinderace will take on opponents that have some relation to fire or determination.
Cinderace starts each match with a soccer ball next to him. The only item besides this is the X-Bomb.
In this route, Cinderace will take on opponents that have some relation to fire or determination.
Cinderace starts each match with a soccer ball next to him. The only item besides this is the X-Bomb.
- Stage 1:
on - Stage 2: & (Bowser’s Castle on Paper Mario; multi-battle with two Bowser and the koopalings)
- Stage 3: & (Suzaku Castle; stamina battle)
- Stage 4: & (2v1; Big Blue)
- Stage 5: - Gets Final Smash every 30 seconds (Kalos Pokemon League)
- Stage 6: & (free for all; Wyndon Stadium)
- Boss - Eternatus (Eternamax form): While it’s unlikely, one can dream, and this would be a cool way to add more bosses to the game for fun. Cinderace will look at Eternatus in confusion at the top of Hammerlocke tower (separate from Wyndon Stadium) and see Eternatus slowly get bigger and change into its Eternamax form. During battle, parts of Eternatus will pop in and out of the screen, and that’s when you damage it. Cinderace will be on a platform that rotates around Eternatus, surrounding it in a circular motion. After a while, Eternatus will break the platform and you’ll be walking/fighting on chunks of debris.
Boss Rush
Sort of like the all-star mode, Boss Blitz will allow you to go through all of the bosses in the game, including a couple of new bosses to be added in over time (Eternatus, for example).
Sort of like the all-star mode, Boss Blitz will allow you to go through all of the bosses in the game, including a couple of new bosses to be added in over time (Eternatus, for example).
This is a different stage compared to other Pokemon stages. In this stage, the players will be on a platform that moves throughout the stadium, and this will partly work like Poke Floats did in Melee.
- The battle will start on a midair futuristic platform, but it will move around the rim of the Wyndon Stadium. You will see two Pokemon fighting down on the field, but soon, the Pokemon Dynamax. These Pokemon will be random, but mainly, new Gen 8 Pokemon will appear. The fossil Pokemon, Galarian forms, the other starters, and even some Gigantamax Pokemon will appear. While the super-sized Pokemon fight, parts of them will pop in the screen for you to stand on. The Pokemon will eventually use Max Moves against either you or each other that result in the destruction of the platform you're on.
- Now that the platform is gone, you have no choice but to fight while moving around on the Dynamax Pokemon.
- This is how the cycle goes, but you can also turn off stage hazards, and you’ll just fight on a floating platform, with three mini platforms above it (like Pokemon Stadium 2, just with an extra platform). This time, the Smash fighters are the attention. Dynamax Pokemon will come in, but they will fight each other and not interfere with you in any way. Occasionally, they will glance at the platform, however.
- Battle! Wild Pokemon (Remix)
- FInal Battle! Hop
- Battle! Gym Leader (Remix)
- Battle! Marnie
- Battle! Rival Bede
- Motostoke
- Hammerlocke
- Wyndon
- Battle Tower
- Battle! Max Raid
- Battle! Zacian/Zamazenta
- Eternatus Phase 1
- Eternatus Phase 2
- Eternatus Phase 3 (Remix)
Last edited:
Chase
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2013
- Messages
- 529
Bumping this since I haven't gotten any feedback on it yet.
Reiga
He sold diddy for a switch
back in the comment game baby
Hey there, welcome to MYM
NeonVoid
! Cinderace is an interesting choice and it sure seems like a passion project, so that's fun to see. I can tell you know the game well and really liked the detailing on out of shield options and playstyle, so it makes me ahce even more a higher level of detail in the move descriptions and the like; you did a good job already with the decently thorough description of even standard moves, something a lot of newcomers pitfall over, but I'm really missing the kind of stuff that really matters in a match, as while it can maybe be inferred a bit, it'd be great to know the actual %s of moves and have any laggy or quick animations be explicitly told.
About the character itself, the focus on kicks is obvious and of course that's delivered, but I feel like maybe the soccer characterization is a bit too tame? Incineroar spawns in ropes and always does heel-esque taunts to show off, and Cinderace has a comparable vibe in game with how it does that competitive sports cry and stuff, so I was surprised the bigger focus was more on fire stuff and Blaze.
I especially noticed missed opportunities in the NSpec and DSpec. Being a soccer ball, it'd be really fun if to seperate even more from the standard furrymon chargable ball it acted sort of like a Gordo, where you and the opponent can both knock it around! Maybe it could even increase in size with every kick, like how when Cinderace is charging he does little kick-ups for it to increase and size.
Court Change being just a counter with reflector stuff is a bit lame, when in-game it seems more like it looks more like its flipping the battlefield, so something more unique and fun like would be something like making the court be much bigger and extend in front of Cinderace, like Cinderace is in one half of the field, and on activation freezing any projectiles caught inside the court before swapping it to the corresponding spot on the other side of the field. So if a projectile gets frozen on your side of the field, immediately gets reflected back on the other spot of the field! Would sync really well with the Pyro Ball reflector idea too.
Hope this comment doesn't discourage you, but I can see some good potential from you, so I hope you can stop by more times! Maybe hone the movesetting, make your move eh? Oh, and feel free to post the set without the spoiler tags dude! I know these days most of the time the thread looks short because a ton of people just post links to docs, but feel free to do so!
NeonVoid
! Cinderace is an interesting choice and it sure seems like a passion project, so that's fun to see. I can tell you know the game well and really liked the detailing on out of shield options and playstyle, so it makes me ahce even more a higher level of detail in the move descriptions and the like; you did a good job already with the decently thorough description of even standard moves, something a lot of newcomers pitfall over, but I'm really missing the kind of stuff that really matters in a match, as while it can maybe be inferred a bit, it'd be great to know the actual %s of moves and have any laggy or quick animations be explicitly told.About the character itself, the focus on kicks is obvious and of course that's delivered, but I feel like maybe the soccer characterization is a bit too tame? Incineroar spawns in ropes and always does heel-esque taunts to show off, and Cinderace has a comparable vibe in game with how it does that competitive sports cry and stuff, so I was surprised the bigger focus was more on fire stuff and Blaze.
I especially noticed missed opportunities in the NSpec and DSpec. Being a soccer ball, it'd be really fun if to seperate even more from the standard furrymon chargable ball it acted sort of like a Gordo, where you and the opponent can both knock it around! Maybe it could even increase in size with every kick, like how when Cinderace is charging he does little kick-ups for it to increase and size.
Court Change being just a counter with reflector stuff is a bit lame, when in-game it seems more like it looks more like its flipping the battlefield, so something more unique and fun like would be something like making the court be much bigger and extend in front of Cinderace, like Cinderace is in one half of the field, and on activation freezing any projectiles caught inside the court before swapping it to the corresponding spot on the other side of the field. So if a projectile gets frozen on your side of the field, immediately gets reflected back on the other spot of the field! Would sync really well with the Pyro Ball reflector idea too.
Hope this comment doesn't discourage you, but I can see some good potential from you, so I hope you can stop by more times! Maybe hone the movesetting, make your move eh? Oh, and feel free to post the set without the spoiler tags dude! I know these days most of the time the thread looks short because a ton of people just post links to docs, but feel free to do so!
I knew this would be a fun ride the moment I knew the character, already knowing about the series ol' Gio was from even before coming back to MYM, and while I haven't actually read any sets from the good couple of people who've come to MYM after I left for a bit, I did hear about your rampant set reading last contest, so I knew whatever was the case you've had a good database of what to do in MYM.
Surely enough, Giovanni surprised me with its simple but very effective juggling of concepts, with the Lucky 13, while at first something I feared due to being a universal and really strong damage buff on any move of your choosing, proved to be handled competently with a very solid grasp of what works and what doesn't work buffed, while also mingling with the pretty well executed minions, which while when summoned usually do a very basic task/pattern, can be commanded with the throws to change up and work up towards your lucky 13. Like Kat said, a character caring for minions is seldom seen in MYM, so that factor is always fun. (btw maybe you should include individual pngs of the minions on each of their sections? for everyone who doesn't know who is who)
I do worry though that it seems like most moves deal more damage than they should from scrawny Giovanni, especially stuff like the FThrow dealing 22% total, which not even any heavyweight can do (iirc K.Rool has the strongest and it deals 16%), and while it's nice that you added a weaker version of the soup grenade, although 12% probably is still too strong characterization-wise and maybe gameplay-wise too. Oh, and about throws maybe the Grandma Mode DThrow could deal a couple more hits during the cartoon dust cloud? A bit more focus on the Lucky 13 on the throws would be fun, since that's one of the few times where you can "guarantee" a series of hits.
I mentioned making Cinderace more soccer-y but might as well mention here that it'd be fun if the minions could, maybe after being more defensive/offensive with one of the minions throws, reflect back your soup grenades at you with the same speed and damage, but with the potential of you reflecting your own projectile with FSmash? That'd be a fun way to keep pressure and maybe ping-pong a couple hits for the Lucky 13.
Other than that, I do miss info on startup and sometimes endlag on a lot of moves, since while I did mention that some moves seem a bit too strong, it may just work if the more bombastic moves are explicitly laggy; the sort you'd need to get an opening with your projectile-play and minions to get a Lucky 13 with! While it's nice that most combo moves will mention what lead ups you can do with, and I could easily tell for example how much of a bread and butter FAir is, maybe it's a bit better to just mention "aerials" or the like when we haven't even reached the section yet and don't know exactly what the move does. This one is a bit more personal but maybe you could also experiment a bit more with the formatting? The all-encompassing yellow started hurting my eyes a bit by the end, and its a bit of a weird choice when the character also has a lot of notable red and white in his palette, and the yellow is even a bit too saturated than on the character. This isn't really a detracted, just a pointer ig.
Either way I really appreciate the set, and I hope Gio can sneak into the Top 50, or maybe even higher!
Surely enough, Giovanni surprised me with its simple but very effective juggling of concepts, with the Lucky 13, while at first something I feared due to being a universal and really strong damage buff on any move of your choosing, proved to be handled competently with a very solid grasp of what works and what doesn't work buffed, while also mingling with the pretty well executed minions, which while when summoned usually do a very basic task/pattern, can be commanded with the throws to change up and work up towards your lucky 13. Like Kat said, a character caring for minions is seldom seen in MYM, so that factor is always fun. (btw maybe you should include individual pngs of the minions on each of their sections? for everyone who doesn't know who is who)
I do worry though that it seems like most moves deal more damage than they should from scrawny Giovanni, especially stuff like the FThrow dealing 22% total, which not even any heavyweight can do (iirc K.Rool has the strongest and it deals 16%), and while it's nice that you added a weaker version of the soup grenade, although 12% probably is still too strong characterization-wise and maybe gameplay-wise too. Oh, and about throws maybe the Grandma Mode DThrow could deal a couple more hits during the cartoon dust cloud? A bit more focus on the Lucky 13 on the throws would be fun, since that's one of the few times where you can "guarantee" a series of hits.
I mentioned making Cinderace more soccer-y but might as well mention here that it'd be fun if the minions could, maybe after being more defensive/offensive with one of the minions throws, reflect back your soup grenades at you with the same speed and damage, but with the potential of you reflecting your own projectile with FSmash? That'd be a fun way to keep pressure and maybe ping-pong a couple hits for the Lucky 13.
Other than that, I do miss info on startup and sometimes endlag on a lot of moves, since while I did mention that some moves seem a bit too strong, it may just work if the more bombastic moves are explicitly laggy; the sort you'd need to get an opening with your projectile-play and minions to get a Lucky 13 with! While it's nice that most combo moves will mention what lead ups you can do with, and I could easily tell for example how much of a bread and butter FAir is, maybe it's a bit better to just mention "aerials" or the like when we haven't even reached the section yet and don't know exactly what the move does. This one is a bit more personal but maybe you could also experiment a bit more with the formatting? The all-encompassing yellow started hurting my eyes a bit by the end, and its a bit of a weird choice when the character also has a lot of notable red and white in his palette, and the yellow is even a bit too saturated than on the character. This isn't really a detracted, just a pointer ig.
Either way I really appreciate the set, and I hope Gio can sneak into the Top 50, or maybe even higher!
NeonVoid
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2019
- Messages
- 212
Alright, I can make some edits to this. About Cinderace's overall personality, I get where you're going with having Cinderace showboat more and fit the fire aspect, I'm just trying to differentiate him from Incineroar (since he isn't too popular in Smash anyway). My main focus with Cinderace was confidence and determination, because in Sword and Shield, that's seems to be his stereotypeback in the comment game baby
Hey there, welcome to MYM
About the character itself, the focus on kicks is obvious and of course that's delivered, but I feel like maybe the soccer characterization is a bit too tame? Incineroar spawns in ropes and always does heel-esque taunts to show off, and Cinderace has a comparable vibe in game with how it does that competitive sports cry and stuff, so I was surprised the bigger focus was more on fire stuff and Blaze.
I especially noticed missed opportunities in the NSpec and DSpec. Being a soccer ball, it'd be really fun if to seperate even more from the standard furrymon chargable ball it acted sort of like a Gordo, where you and the opponent can both knock it around! Maybe it could even increase in size with every kick, like how when Cinderace is charging he does little kick-ups for it to increase and size.
Court Change being just a counter with reflector stuff is a bit lame, when in-game it seems more like it looks more like its flipping the battlefield, so something more unique and fun like would be something like making the court be much bigger and extend in front of Cinderace, like Cinderace is in one half of the field, and on activation freezing any projectiles caught inside the court before swapping it to the corresponding spot on the other side of the field. So if a projectile gets frozen on your side of the field, immediately gets reflected back on the other spot of the field! Would sync really well with the Pyro Ball reflector idea too.
Hope this comment doesn't discourage you, but I can see some good potential from you, so I hope you can stop by more times! Maybe hone the movesetting, make your move eh? Oh, and feel free to post the set without the spoiler tags dude! I know these days most of the time the thread looks short because a ton of people just post links to docs, but feel free to do so!
I knew this would be a fun ride the moment I knew the character, already knowing about the series ol' Gio was from even before coming back to MYM, and while I haven't actually read any sets from the good couple of people who've come to MYM after I left for a bit, I did hear about your rampant set reading last contest, so I knew whatever was the case you've had a good database of what to do in MYM.
Surely enough, Giovanni surprised me with its simple but very effective juggling of concepts, with the Lucky 13, while at first something I feared due to being a universal and really strong damage buff on any move of your choosing, proved to be handled competently with a very solid grasp of what works and what doesn't work buffed, while also mingling with the pretty well executed minions, which while when summoned usually do a very basic task/pattern, can be commanded with the throws to change up and work up towards your lucky 13. Like Kat said, a character caring for minions is seldom seen in MYM, so that factor is always fun. (btw maybe you should include individual pngs of the minions on each of their sections? for everyone who doesn't know who is who)
I do worry though that it seems like most moves deal more damage than they should from scrawny Giovanni, especially stuff like the FThrow dealing 22% total, which not even any heavyweight can do (iirc K.Rool has the strongest and it deals 16%), and while it's nice that you added a weaker version of the soup grenade, although 12% probably is still too strong characterization-wise and maybe gameplay-wise too. Oh, and about throws maybe the Grandma Mode DThrow could deal a couple more hits during the cartoon dust cloud? A bit more focus on the Lucky 13 on the throws would be fun, since that's one of the few times where you can "guarantee" a series of hits.
I mentioned making Cinderace more soccer-y but might as well mention here that it'd be fun if the minions could, maybe after being more defensive/offensive with one of the minions throws, reflect back your soup grenades at you with the same speed and damage, but with the potential of you reflecting your own projectile with FSmash? That'd be a fun way to keep pressure and maybe ping-pong a couple hits for the Lucky 13.
Other than that, I do miss info on startup and sometimes endlag on a lot of moves, since while I did mention that some moves seem a bit too strong, it may just work if the more bombastic moves are explicitly laggy; the sort you'd need to get an opening with your projectile-play and minions to get a Lucky 13 with! While it's nice that most combo moves will mention what lead ups you can do with, and I could easily tell for example how much of a bread and butter FAir is, maybe it's a bit better to just mention "aerials" or the like when we haven't even reached the section yet and don't know exactly what the move does. This one is a bit more personal but maybe you could also experiment a bit more with the formatting? The all-encompassing yellow started hurting my eyes a bit by the end, and its a bit of a weird choice when the character also has a lot of notable red and white in his palette, and the yellow is even a bit too saturated than on the character. This isn't really a detracted, just a pointer ig.
Either way I really appreciate the set, and I hope Gio can sneak into the Top 50, or maybe even higher!
PENNYWISE THE DANCING CLOWN:
I didn't know whether the Eater of Worlds (and of Children) ever would grace MYM again, as I went 10 years and two rebooted movies without much in the way of substantive inspiration for a remix. If anyone were to take up the mantle, I'm glad it was you, as clearly my two Pennywise predecessors left their impact on you as a longtime horror fan. Which without further preamble leads me to, holy s***. There are so many ways to interpret this character, and no shortage of ways to botch It (as I can attest to from MYM6). And yet, after reading this set, I don't know that any interpretation possibly could top yours. You've woven together the bestial and gory aspects of the character (the spider F-Smash and insect limbs, the severed heads) that, in lesser hands, would come off as tacky props with the clown persona, for which most MYMers (and people in general) know It, virtually seamlessly. Chrissakes, the meme running fridge dash attack from MYM6 (that at the time I totally didn't associate with the fridge holding Stan's head) even makes a comeback as one of my favorite Specials in recent memory. The extra flourishes of Pennywise speaking all the iconic lines for most of the moves, too, was a brilliant touch, made all the more brilliant. . .
. . .by virtue of its actual playstyle relevance. As I alluded in the chat, I had some trepidation going from specials to standards...more or less, I was waiting to see that Pennywise would have more direct ways to trigger the balloon screams than waiting for a foe to pop one. That's something where, if foes could avoid the popping, would leave It quite limited as far as when he actually could use his various fakeouts, but you've worked around that with the jab projectile balloon being able to explode them, not to mention the assortment of methods for pulling foes or balloons around (N-Air, D-Air, etc.) so they impact each other. I do wonder from a conceptual standpoint whether foes could play around Pennywise's mind games in realizing that he only really can use them for deception when there's active screaming, but this, too, you address by having the moves in question still be useful without screams (like powering up/deadlighting Side Special for a future fake use or having illusion-to-real Pennywise combos be a thing).
In terms of the illusions, I like their overall handling, with Pennywise able to let the charade go on to a reasonably long extent at 8 seconds at the cost of it not being that hard to uncover a fake, as soon as he exits hitstun, and Pennywise himself being a sitting duck if the illusion is sussed out. As you clarified in chat, the illusion even can take out balloons and a fridge that persists after It's gone, which creates nice synergy between Pennywise and his clone and, with the right subterfuge, even could let him get a good number of constructs into play without being vulnerable to ranged projectiles. And speaking of synergy, I like how there's effectively 50/50s baked into several moves, with Pennywise able to move balloon strings into or out of the background based on which hitbox he's aiming to land and how his foe reacts, and the differently-positioned balloon stream and deadlight hitboxes from the fridge. The only areas of the set I really could point to as far as nitpicks are, I feel as though the U-Throw floating children and D-Throw tether concepts both are good but could be better integrated in with the rest of the set (the lack of mention in the context of other moves creates the appearance that they were later-decided moves). The animations/hitboxes of U-Smash and D-Smash (positioning of the hand compared to Pennywise on the A+B input and the water stream's angled input behind Pennywise, respectively) also took me a few rereads to wrap my head around, comparable to Xehanort's same moves.
That being said, I wouldn't at all be surprised if, once all is said and done, there were more similarities between Pennywise and Xehanort than somewhat confusing Smash descriptions. Had Pennywise been a MYM22 set, it would've been a tough, tough call whether he or fellow clown Rudy would get my ultimate SV+. Needless to say, I don't know how unimaginably great MYM23 would have to become for Pennywise to drop below a SV at the least.
I didn't know whether the Eater of Worlds (and of Children) ever would grace MYM again, as I went 10 years and two rebooted movies without much in the way of substantive inspiration for a remix. If anyone were to take up the mantle, I'm glad it was you, as clearly my two Pennywise predecessors left their impact on you as a longtime horror fan. Which without further preamble leads me to, holy s***. There are so many ways to interpret this character, and no shortage of ways to botch It (as I can attest to from MYM6). And yet, after reading this set, I don't know that any interpretation possibly could top yours. You've woven together the bestial and gory aspects of the character (the spider F-Smash and insect limbs, the severed heads) that, in lesser hands, would come off as tacky props with the clown persona, for which most MYMers (and people in general) know It, virtually seamlessly. Chrissakes, the meme running fridge dash attack from MYM6 (that at the time I totally didn't associate with the fridge holding Stan's head) even makes a comeback as one of my favorite Specials in recent memory. The extra flourishes of Pennywise speaking all the iconic lines for most of the moves, too, was a brilliant touch, made all the more brilliant. . .
. . .by virtue of its actual playstyle relevance. As I alluded in the chat, I had some trepidation going from specials to standards...more or less, I was waiting to see that Pennywise would have more direct ways to trigger the balloon screams than waiting for a foe to pop one. That's something where, if foes could avoid the popping, would leave It quite limited as far as when he actually could use his various fakeouts, but you've worked around that with the jab projectile balloon being able to explode them, not to mention the assortment of methods for pulling foes or balloons around (N-Air, D-Air, etc.) so they impact each other. I do wonder from a conceptual standpoint whether foes could play around Pennywise's mind games in realizing that he only really can use them for deception when there's active screaming, but this, too, you address by having the moves in question still be useful without screams (like powering up/deadlighting Side Special for a future fake use or having illusion-to-real Pennywise combos be a thing).
In terms of the illusions, I like their overall handling, with Pennywise able to let the charade go on to a reasonably long extent at 8 seconds at the cost of it not being that hard to uncover a fake, as soon as he exits hitstun, and Pennywise himself being a sitting duck if the illusion is sussed out. As you clarified in chat, the illusion even can take out balloons and a fridge that persists after It's gone, which creates nice synergy between Pennywise and his clone and, with the right subterfuge, even could let him get a good number of constructs into play without being vulnerable to ranged projectiles. And speaking of synergy, I like how there's effectively 50/50s baked into several moves, with Pennywise able to move balloon strings into or out of the background based on which hitbox he's aiming to land and how his foe reacts, and the differently-positioned balloon stream and deadlight hitboxes from the fridge. The only areas of the set I really could point to as far as nitpicks are, I feel as though the U-Throw floating children and D-Throw tether concepts both are good but could be better integrated in with the rest of the set (the lack of mention in the context of other moves creates the appearance that they were later-decided moves). The animations/hitboxes of U-Smash and D-Smash (positioning of the hand compared to Pennywise on the A+B input and the water stream's angled input behind Pennywise, respectively) also took me a few rereads to wrap my head around, comparable to Xehanort's same moves.
That being said, I wouldn't at all be surprised if, once all is said and done, there were more similarities between Pennywise and Xehanort than somewhat confusing Smash descriptions. Had Pennywise been a MYM22 set, it would've been a tough, tough call whether he or fellow clown Rudy would get my ultimate SV+. Needless to say, I don't know how unimaginably great MYM23 would have to become for Pennywise to drop below a SV at the least.
FrozenRoy
Smash Lord
skekMyAnimeList (skekMal, the Hunter
BKupa666
)
Audio Comment Link: https://vocaroo.com/hEG1Up9Gsd8
I decided to do something different and left skekMal an audio comment, hopefully my microphone quality isn't too awful (I might be able to fix that in the future).
Summary: skekMal is a good set that I feel could be better. Pummel and Gobbles should have their balance shifted up by pummel being easier to land but less potent and Gobbles being easier to kill if you want them to be killable. Up special is very good and I quite enjoy the blade throwing, but I feel the aerials could have been designed a bit better with them in mind. skekSis rage and non-blade attacks could have been woven in better, perhaps tying in to each other. Some melee like Forward Smash, Jab, Down Throw, Up Throw quite nice.
BKupa666
)Audio Comment Link: https://vocaroo.com/hEG1Up9Gsd8
I decided to do something different and left skekMal an audio comment, hopefully my microphone quality isn't too awful (I might be able to fix that in the future).
Summary: skekMal is a good set that I feel could be better. Pummel and Gobbles should have their balance shifted up by pummel being easier to land but less potent and Gobbles being easier to kill if you want them to be killable. Up special is very good and I quite enjoy the blade throwing, but I feel the aerials could have been designed a bit better with them in mind. skekSis rage and non-blade attacks could have been woven in better, perhaps tying in to each other. Some melee like Forward Smash, Jab, Down Throw, Up Throw quite nice.
GolisoPower
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2017
- Messages
- 4,397
I hope this new moveset doesn't bug you in any way...
But the best course of action is to stay chill...
After all, the best things come in small packages...
But the best course of action is to stay chill...
After all, the best things come in small packages...
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Slavic
Ask not the sparrow how the eagle soars
Before I get started proper on my comment for Snom by
GolisoPower
, I want to give huge props for actually making this set. It's one of the rare times where I'm genuinely surprised by a character choice for a set but you sure did make it! I actually had to go back through older setlists to find what you'd made in the past because your name was very familiar, those sets being Dehaka and Arthas (I actually haven't read your other sets this contest yet (sadface)). I remember Dehaka but not the latter, but just looking over and comparing I would say Snom is definitively an improvement. Snom's one of my favorite Pokemon so I'm really happy it's gotten a set, as unexpected as it was.
First off, I adore the interpretations of the Specials, which both feel very fitting for our tiny hero and also have some genuine interest as concepts. Stand out for me is Struggle Bug, a weak combo-breaker that works through grabs. I don't really remember many moves that are designed to release charge when grabbed and it's honestly a great concept that I could see being used for a lot of sets moving forward. Having Attract on a Snom is absolutely wild to me at first glance, but the interpretation of Snom's marketability making it too cute to hit is certainly interesting. I do appreciate it not freezing the opponent up (having SSpec and Uspec to do that), and the idea that an affected opponent just sometimes won't have a hitbox is definitely a unique one.
One of the big issues I have with the set is a general balance issue, I feel. Snom seems exceptionally good at annoying its opponents thanks to having not one but two moves that can afflict a freeze on them and seemingly easily as well. As a suggestion, perhaps Icy Thread could have a hard to land sweetspot that freezes foes while Icy Wind could slow opponent's movement. Snom would still have a powerful combo starter into moves like DAir by freezing the opponent on the spot, it would just take a few more steps which would make it much less annoying for foes to deal with. Speaking of annoying, having a 50% chance of an attack doing nothing after being hit by Attract would be frustrating. You do make a point to put a time limit on it, but even 6 seconds of only half your attacks doing something would be devastating. Perhaps Attract could work more directly as a counter, feinting the opponent with its cute charm before hitting them with a Bug Bite or something similar.
One area that improves naturally the more you make sets in MYM is the detailing on moves, and you do have a good basis on it. You make sure to include damage, knockback, and even frame data (which is missing on Icy Thread, as a heads up), and you show that you've got a solid grasp of Smash Bros. combat. We don't want you to write more for moves just for the sake of it like we're English teachers, of course. Expanding your moves will help define where the move fits in the playstyle and answer certain questions, such as the weaknesses of moves. As an aside, I do think some of these moves feel more function before character, which while not inherently a bad thing, it is a bit weird to imagine Snom plummeting down the height of Final Destination for an aerial.
There was a healthy amount of criticism in there but I really did enjoy reading Snom's set and it feels like a solid step forward. It fits nicely with what works in Smash while also coming up with some unique ideas (I'm still geeking out about a chargeable move that goes off when grabbed). I love the characterization for my favorite Pokemon throughout the set as well, and you've even gone out of your way to include flavor details down to the voice actor. If you have any followup questions, or want advice for a set you want to make, OR just want to hang out with a chill community, you should check out our Discord server that's linked in the opening post. You'll tend to get a faster response time for advice and criticism than just in thread (I say writing this comment only hours after Snom was posted). Thanks for making this set, honestly, and I do hope to see more of you moving forward.
GolisoPower
, I want to give huge props for actually making this set. It's one of the rare times where I'm genuinely surprised by a character choice for a set but you sure did make it! I actually had to go back through older setlists to find what you'd made in the past because your name was very familiar, those sets being Dehaka and Arthas (I actually haven't read your other sets this contest yet (sadface)). I remember Dehaka but not the latter, but just looking over and comparing I would say Snom is definitively an improvement. Snom's one of my favorite Pokemon so I'm really happy it's gotten a set, as unexpected as it was.First off, I adore the interpretations of the Specials, which both feel very fitting for our tiny hero and also have some genuine interest as concepts. Stand out for me is Struggle Bug, a weak combo-breaker that works through grabs. I don't really remember many moves that are designed to release charge when grabbed and it's honestly a great concept that I could see being used for a lot of sets moving forward. Having Attract on a Snom is absolutely wild to me at first glance, but the interpretation of Snom's marketability making it too cute to hit is certainly interesting. I do appreciate it not freezing the opponent up (having SSpec and Uspec to do that), and the idea that an affected opponent just sometimes won't have a hitbox is definitely a unique one.
One of the big issues I have with the set is a general balance issue, I feel. Snom seems exceptionally good at annoying its opponents thanks to having not one but two moves that can afflict a freeze on them and seemingly easily as well. As a suggestion, perhaps Icy Thread could have a hard to land sweetspot that freezes foes while Icy Wind could slow opponent's movement. Snom would still have a powerful combo starter into moves like DAir by freezing the opponent on the spot, it would just take a few more steps which would make it much less annoying for foes to deal with. Speaking of annoying, having a 50% chance of an attack doing nothing after being hit by Attract would be frustrating. You do make a point to put a time limit on it, but even 6 seconds of only half your attacks doing something would be devastating. Perhaps Attract could work more directly as a counter, feinting the opponent with its cute charm before hitting them with a Bug Bite or something similar.
One area that improves naturally the more you make sets in MYM is the detailing on moves, and you do have a good basis on it. You make sure to include damage, knockback, and even frame data (which is missing on Icy Thread, as a heads up), and you show that you've got a solid grasp of Smash Bros. combat. We don't want you to write more for moves just for the sake of it like we're English teachers, of course. Expanding your moves will help define where the move fits in the playstyle and answer certain questions, such as the weaknesses of moves. As an aside, I do think some of these moves feel more function before character, which while not inherently a bad thing, it is a bit weird to imagine Snom plummeting down the height of Final Destination for an aerial.
There was a healthy amount of criticism in there but I really did enjoy reading Snom's set and it feels like a solid step forward. It fits nicely with what works in Smash while also coming up with some unique ideas (I'm still geeking out about a chargeable move that goes off when grabbed). I love the characterization for my favorite Pokemon throughout the set as well, and you've even gone out of your way to include flavor details down to the voice actor. If you have any followup questions, or want advice for a set you want to make, OR just want to hang out with a chill community, you should check out our Discord server that's linked in the opening post. You'll tend to get a faster response time for advice and criticism than just in thread (I say writing this comment only hours after Snom was posted). Thanks for making this set, honestly, and I do hope to see more of you moving forward.
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FrozenRoy
Smash Lord
For fun, I decided that with Make Your Move 23 a month in, I would do a little "first month recap" along with providing some fun statistics and resources. I doubt I'll be doing this monthly or anything (some months might not even be active enough for it), but MYM23's first month was craaaazy successful, with us seeing twenty six sets, a pace of almost one set a day! Heck, while I was writing this, good ol' GolisoPower posted a Snom set to put us up to 27! While I wouldn't expect that pace to continue, let's do our best to not drop off too much, shall we? And I'll do my best to help too, of course, although I'm off to an uncharacteristically slow start...but don't worry, I've got sets in the works, including one pretty dang far in!
Before I get into some hopefully-fun stats, here's a link to all of the rankings (that I know about) in MYM. Take a look and enjoy if your set is on there! Reading is still a bit new, so don't fret if your set isn't on, we'll get to it soon.
Reigaheres Rankings
Katapultar Rankings
Slavic Rankings
Kupa Rankings
FrozenRoy Rankings
With those resources out of the way, I've decided to grab some purely-for-fun stats on the contest and post them below!
First off, a big shoutout to Plague for being our most prolific commenter so far, commenting on 13 sets! That's half of our entire first month output! Plague was a big reader and commenter in Make Your Move 22 and that doesn't look like it'll stop. Kupa and Katapultar, the double Ks, picked up the next highest spots with Katapultar providing 8 comments and Kupa coming up with 5 comments. The total number of comments posted was 44 comments.
Below, you can find the current amount of comments every MYMer who has commented has along with which sets they have commented:
The most commented among these sets he first month was Bleak, who captured the hearts of 5 readers in his icy embrace. Prae Aerius's forward-thinking nature allowed her to air in 4 readers, while Marauder had the help of four comments to track down his rival the Doom Slayer. A note to Robobot Armor for cleanly getting 3 comments above the rest of the pack as well. Our spread early on was pretty good, but for posterity's sake I have included a running tally on how many comments each set has. If you see someone with a low or no comments, go ahead and drop them one: I'm sure they'd love to hear some feedback!
The running champion of sets looked to be Katapultar with his three sets Hotaru Futaba, Tomoyo Kanzaki and Pennywise the Dancing Clown, but GolisoPower posting Snom while I was writing this allowed him to tie! His trio of Doom Slayer, Reimu Hakurei and Snom got him tied with the top. A whopping amount of people tied for the next highest as Slavic, UserShadow, Perkilator, Dilliam and Plague all made 2 sets!
Below is a list of who has made sets the first month, how many and which sets they made.
A quick word count of this month's sets showed "Lucky" Louise reigning the day when it comes to word count total with a whopping 34,364! It might take all night at the casino to read her, but judging from ForwardArrow and Katapultar's comments she's well worth the price of admission. Second place is Mami Tomoe, Slavic's longest set to be date and in my personal opinion his best: Don't let it get to your head, bite into the set when you can! And while Katapultar's Hotaru Futaba is lacking in comments it isn't lacking in size, clocking in at a meaty 16,598.
For those on the run, Bonanza Bros stood as the shortest set at a brisk 730 words that anyone can read in a jiff, and Perkilator's Min Min would be another fast option to take a look at. For laughs, try Plague's MUGEN Tirek set, fueled by 24 hours of deliberately not sleeping to give a true jokeset experience!
Below is the word counts of every set from this month, as ordered from most to least.
As for users, UserShadow's combined output took the number one spot in size with only his two sets and beat out Katapultar's three! In a tight race, UserShadow's 44,510 words edged out Kat's 44,122 to take home a big ol' trophy. Bringing up the bronze was Slavic, with his 30,195 words doubling up on anyone under him! Everyone had a fairly solid job, though, which you can see below with everyone's combined word counts.
Do any of these stats have a point? Not really! But I hope everyone enjoyed this little nugget of an update as we go through Make Your Move 23. Let's make this month nice and active too, a'ight?
Before I get into some hopefully-fun stats, here's a link to all of the rankings (that I know about) in MYM. Take a look and enjoy if your set is on there! Reading is still a bit new, so don't fret if your set isn't on, we'll get to it soon.
Reigaheres Rankings
Katapultar Rankings
Slavic Rankings
Kupa Rankings
FrozenRoy Rankings
With those resources out of the way, I've decided to grab some purely-for-fun stats on the contest and post them below!
First off, a big shoutout to Plague for being our most prolific commenter so far, commenting on 13 sets! That's half of our entire first month output! Plague was a big reader and commenter in Make Your Move 22 and that doesn't look like it'll stop. Kupa and Katapultar, the double Ks, picked up the next highest spots with Katapultar providing 8 comments and Kupa coming up with 5 comments. The total number of comments posted was 44 comments.
Below, you can find the current amount of comments every MYMer who has commented has along with which sets they have commented:
plague126: 13
Reimu Hakurei
Prae Aerius
Marauder
Exeggcute
Bonanza Bros
Mami Tomoe
Imp Midna
Robobot Armor
Bleak
Min Min
Arvis
Cinderace
Ganon
Katapultar: 8
Bleak
Prae Aerius
Marauder
"Lucky" Louise
Midna
skekMal, the Hunter
Giovanni Potage
Fierce Pork Trooper
BKupa666: 5
Bleak
Exeggcute
Robobot Armor
Prae Aerius
Pennywise the Dancing Clown
Slavic: 4
Robobot Armor
Fierce Pork Trooper
Giovanni Potage
Snom
FruitLoop: 4
Arvis
Min-Min
Marauder
Mugen TIREK
FrozenRoy: 3
Prae Aerius
Mami Tomoe
skekMal, the Hunter
ForwardArrow: 2
Bleak
Lucky Louise
Dilliam: 2
MUGEN Tirek
Bleak
Reigaheres: 2
Cinderace
Giovanni Potage
Kholdstare: 1
Marauder
Reimu Hakurei
Prae Aerius
Marauder
Exeggcute
Bonanza Bros
Mami Tomoe
Imp Midna
Robobot Armor
Bleak
Min Min
Arvis
Cinderace
Ganon
Katapultar: 8
Bleak
Prae Aerius
Marauder
"Lucky" Louise
Midna
skekMal, the Hunter
Giovanni Potage
Fierce Pork Trooper
BKupa666: 5
Bleak
Exeggcute
Robobot Armor
Prae Aerius
Pennywise the Dancing Clown
Slavic: 4
Robobot Armor
Fierce Pork Trooper
Giovanni Potage
Snom
FruitLoop: 4
Arvis
Min-Min
Marauder
Mugen TIREK
FrozenRoy: 3
Prae Aerius
Mami Tomoe
skekMal, the Hunter
ForwardArrow: 2
Bleak
Lucky Louise
Dilliam: 2
MUGEN Tirek
Bleak
Reigaheres: 2
Cinderace
Giovanni Potage
Kholdstare: 1
Marauder
The most commented among these sets he first month was Bleak, who captured the hearts of 5 readers in his icy embrace. Prae Aerius's forward-thinking nature allowed her to air in 4 readers, while Marauder had the help of four comments to track down his rival the Doom Slayer. A note to Robobot Armor for cleanly getting 3 comments above the rest of the pack as well. Our spread early on was pretty good, but for posterity's sake I have included a running tally on how many comments each set has. If you see someone with a low or no comments, go ahead and drop them one: I'm sure they'd love to hear some feedback!
Bleak: 5
Prae Aerius: 4
Marauder: 4
Robobot Armor: 3
MUGEN Tirek: 2
Giovani Potage: 2
skekMal, the Hunter: 2
Arvis: 2
Min-Min: 2
Midna: 2
Exeggcute: 2
Mami Tomoe: 2
Cinderace: 2
"Lucky" Louise: 2
Fierce Pork Trooper: 2
Reimu Hakurei: 1
Pennywise the Dancing Clown: 1
Bonanza Bros: 1
Ganon: 1
Snom: 1
Hotaru Futaba: 0
Tomoyo Kanzaki: 0
Doom Slayer: 0
Han-Tyumi: 0
Cooking Mama: 0
Sonic 06 Sonic: 0
Prae Aerius: 4
Marauder: 4
Robobot Armor: 3
MUGEN Tirek: 2
Giovani Potage: 2
skekMal, the Hunter: 2
Arvis: 2
Min-Min: 2
Midna: 2
Exeggcute: 2
Mami Tomoe: 2
Cinderace: 2
"Lucky" Louise: 2
Fierce Pork Trooper: 2
Reimu Hakurei: 1
Pennywise the Dancing Clown: 1
Bonanza Bros: 1
Ganon: 1
Snom: 1
Hotaru Futaba: 0
Tomoyo Kanzaki: 0
Doom Slayer: 0
Han-Tyumi: 0
Cooking Mama: 0
Sonic 06 Sonic: 0
The running champion of sets looked to be Katapultar with his three sets Hotaru Futaba, Tomoyo Kanzaki and Pennywise the Dancing Clown, but GolisoPower posting Snom while I was writing this allowed him to tie! His trio of Doom Slayer, Reimu Hakurei and Snom got him tied with the top. A whopping amount of people tied for the next highest as Slavic, UserShadow, Perkilator, Dilliam and Plague all made 2 sets!
Below is a list of who has made sets the first month, how many and which sets they made.
Katapultar: 3 (Hotaru Futaba, Tomoyo Kanzaki, Pennywise the Dancing Clown)
Golisopower: 3 (Doom Slayer, Reimu Hakurei, Snom)
Slavic: 2 (Exeggcute, Mami Tomoe)
UserShadow: 2 (Bleak, "Lucky" Louise)
Plague: 2 (MUGEN Tirek, Giovanni Potage)
Perkilator: 2 (Arvis, Min Min)
Dilliam: 2 (Marauder, Han-Tyumi)
Professor Lexicovermis: 1 (Prae Aerius)
Jamietheaurauser: 1 (Prae Aerius)
Wario Wario Wario: 1 (Bonanza Bros)
Bubby: 1 (Robobot Armor)
Zero Suit violet: 1 (Imp Midna)
Chase: 1 (Ganon)
Almand: 1 (Cooking Mama)
IvanQuote: 1 (Sonic 06 Sonic)
Kupa: 1 (skekMal the Hunter)
Reigaheres: 1 (Fierce Pork Trooper)
NeonVoid: 1 (Cinderace)
Khold: 0.5 (Balm, unfinished)
Golisopower: 3 (Doom Slayer, Reimu Hakurei, Snom)
Slavic: 2 (Exeggcute, Mami Tomoe)
UserShadow: 2 (Bleak, "Lucky" Louise)
Plague: 2 (MUGEN Tirek, Giovanni Potage)
Perkilator: 2 (Arvis, Min Min)
Dilliam: 2 (Marauder, Han-Tyumi)
Professor Lexicovermis: 1 (Prae Aerius)
Jamietheaurauser: 1 (Prae Aerius)
Wario Wario Wario: 1 (Bonanza Bros)
Bubby: 1 (Robobot Armor)
Zero Suit violet: 1 (Imp Midna)
Chase: 1 (Ganon)
Almand: 1 (Cooking Mama)
IvanQuote: 1 (Sonic 06 Sonic)
Kupa: 1 (skekMal the Hunter)
Reigaheres: 1 (Fierce Pork Trooper)
NeonVoid: 1 (Cinderace)
Khold: 0.5 (Balm, unfinished)
A quick word count of this month's sets showed "Lucky" Louise reigning the day when it comes to word count total with a whopping 34,364! It might take all night at the casino to read her, but judging from ForwardArrow and Katapultar's comments she's well worth the price of admission. Second place is Mami Tomoe, Slavic's longest set to be date and in my personal opinion his best: Don't let it get to your head, bite into the set when you can! And while Katapultar's Hotaru Futaba is lacking in comments it isn't lacking in size, clocking in at a meaty 16,598.
For those on the run, Bonanza Bros stood as the shortest set at a brisk 730 words that anyone can read in a jiff, and Perkilator's Min Min would be another fast option to take a look at. For laughs, try Plague's MUGEN Tirek set, fueled by 24 hours of deliberately not sleeping to give a true jokeset experience!
Below is the word counts of every set from this month, as ordered from most to least.
"Lucky" Louise: 34,364
Mami Tomoe: 19,068
Hotaru Futaba: 16,598
Pennywise the Dancing Clown: 15,143
skekMal, the Hunter: 14,907
Cooking Mama: 14,460
Tomoyo Kanzaki: 12,381
Fiere Pork Trooper: 11,905
Exeggcute: 11,127
Bleak: 10,146
Robobot Armor: 10,020
Prae Aerius: 8,517
Giovanni Potage: 7,039
Balm: 4,964 (Unfinished)
Han-Tyumi: 4,241
Reimu Hakurei: 3,771
Doom Slayer: 3,594
Snom: 3,322
Ganon: 2,902
Marauder: 2,571
Cinderace: 2,256
Imp Midna: 2,232
Arvis: 1,895
MUGEN Tirek: 1,485
Min Min: 1,297
Bonanza Bros: 730
Mami Tomoe: 19,068
Hotaru Futaba: 16,598
Pennywise the Dancing Clown: 15,143
skekMal, the Hunter: 14,907
Cooking Mama: 14,460
Tomoyo Kanzaki: 12,381
Fiere Pork Trooper: 11,905
Exeggcute: 11,127
Bleak: 10,146
Robobot Armor: 10,020
Prae Aerius: 8,517
Giovanni Potage: 7,039
Balm: 4,964 (Unfinished)
Han-Tyumi: 4,241
Reimu Hakurei: 3,771
Doom Slayer: 3,594
Snom: 3,322
Ganon: 2,902
Marauder: 2,571
Cinderace: 2,256
Imp Midna: 2,232
Arvis: 1,895
MUGEN Tirek: 1,485
Min Min: 1,297
Bonanza Bros: 730
As for users, UserShadow's combined output took the number one spot in size with only his two sets and beat out Katapultar's three! In a tight race, UserShadow's 44,510 words edged out Kat's 44,122 to take home a big ol' trophy. Bringing up the bronze was Slavic, with his 30,195 words doubling up on anyone under him! Everyone had a fairly solid job, though, which you can see below with everyone's combined word counts.
UserShadow: 44,510
Katapultar: 44,122
Slavic: 30,195
Kupa: 14,907
Almand: 14,460
Reigaheres: 11,905
GolisoPower: 10,687
Bubby: 10,020
Plague: 8,524
Professor Lexicovermis: 8,517
Jamie: 8,517
IvanQuote: 6,970
Dilliam: 6,811
Khold: 4,964
Perkilator: 3,192
Chase: 2,902
NeonVoid: 2,256
Zero Suit Violet: 2,232
Wario Wario Wario: 730
Katapultar: 44,122
Slavic: 30,195
Kupa: 14,907
Almand: 14,460
Reigaheres: 11,905
GolisoPower: 10,687
Bubby: 10,020
Plague: 8,524
Professor Lexicovermis: 8,517
Jamie: 8,517
IvanQuote: 6,970
Dilliam: 6,811
Khold: 4,964
Perkilator: 3,192
Chase: 2,902
NeonVoid: 2,256
Zero Suit Violet: 2,232
Wario Wario Wario: 730
Do any of these stats have a point? Not really! But I hope everyone enjoyed this little nugget of an update as we go through Make Your Move 23. Let's make this month nice and active too, a'ight?
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FrozenRoy
Smash Lord
Hey all, time for another noticeable post by FrozenRoy! Discussion about our every moveset listed by franchise list, which is exactly what it sounds like, got me thinking about a little event for us to run.
So, here's the deal! The goal is quite simply to either make a set for a franchise which has never placed OR make a set for a franchise 1 set from getting its own listing. You can submit as many entries as you want during this time as long as they follow this criteria and they will be counted. Also, sets submitted won't affect the options you have, so if someone bumps a set to the point it'd have its own franchise listing and you make a set for it it still counts. It'd be unfair to punish you for someone else having the same thought, after all!
Below is a list of, to my knowledge, all qualifying franchises. If anyone happens to find any I missed, I'll be glad to add them to the list!
Of course, we have a little reward to give everyone, so myself, Smady, Kupa and UserShadow have pledged to do our best to comment every set posted in this time within one week of entries closing! That's some high quality commentary, although do be aware things outside of our control could delay it, but the ideal is within a week and it will be ASAP regardless.
In addition, if we reach a total of 12 sets during this time period, me and Smady will upgrade our comments into fullblown Audio Comments, much like ForwardArrow and Smady did in MYM22's Opposite Day! Unless by request you would prefer a written comment. It's also possible I will have another reward to hand out to people, but I'll keep that under wraps since it might not pan out.
This was meant to be posted on May 1st, but for various reasons was delayed until today, so the Franchise Challenge will instead end on June 7th rather than the planned June 1st. That essentially gives you all three extra days comparitively, so you should be happy. Entries can be posted at any point between now and then, or you could save them all for one biiiiiig day at the end like last time. It's everyone's own call on what they feel like!
Whatever the case, hopefully we get some interesting selections given the wide variety of set options, and I look forward to any entries y'all put out!
So, here's the deal! The goal is quite simply to either make a set for a franchise which has never placed OR make a set for a franchise 1 set from getting its own listing. You can submit as many entries as you want during this time as long as they follow this criteria and they will be counted. Also, sets submitted won't affect the options you have, so if someone bumps a set to the point it'd have its own franchise listing and you make a set for it it still counts. It'd be unfair to punish you for someone else having the same thought, after all!
Below is a list of, to my knowledge, all qualifying franchises. If anyone happens to find any I missed, I'll be glad to add them to the list!
Has No Placing Sets:
Ben 10
Bleach
Cardcaptor Sakura
Chibi Robo
Godzilla
Gundam
Halo
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Heroscape
Homestar Runner
Katawa Shoujo
Minecraft
No More Heroes
Puyo Puyo
Sly Cooper
Spyro
Shovel Knight
Starcraft
Tekken
Viewtiful Joe
Studio Ghibli
---
1 Set From Franchise List Spot
Monster Hunter
Darkstalkers
Read or Die
Excel Saga
ARMS
My Hero Academia
Wakfu
Wacky Races
Happy Tree Friends
Samurai Jack
Family Guy
Powerpuff Girls
Invader Zim
Cucumber Quest
Calvin and Hobbes
Silent Hill
Anonymous / 4chan
8-Bit Theater
Animator vs. Animation
Sweeney Todd
Kung Pow! Enter the Fist
Mach Rider
Tetris
Pong
Rokko Chan
Cave Story
Earthworm Jim
Freedom Planet
Shadow of the Colossus
Goemon
Mighty No. 9
Azure Striker Gunvolt
Commander Keen
Hollow Knight
Jak and Daxter
Wonderful 101
Ratchet & Clank
Dangan Ronpa
Vigilante 8
Wild ARMS
Phantom Brave
Quest 64
Billy Hatcher
NiGHTS
Bomberman
Battalion Wars
Worms
Portal
Diablo
Ghosts ‘n Goblins
Sengoku Basara
The Dark Crystal
A Certain Magical Index
Inuyasha
Elfen Lied
Katekyo Hitman Reborn!
Doom
Cooking Mama
Ben 10
Bleach
Cardcaptor Sakura
Chibi Robo
Godzilla
Gundam
Halo
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Heroscape
Homestar Runner
Katawa Shoujo
Minecraft
No More Heroes
Puyo Puyo
Sly Cooper
Spyro
Shovel Knight
Starcraft
Tekken
Viewtiful Joe
Studio Ghibli
---
1 Set From Franchise List Spot
Monster Hunter
Darkstalkers
Read or Die
Excel Saga
ARMS
My Hero Academia
Wakfu
Wacky Races
Happy Tree Friends
Samurai Jack
Family Guy
Powerpuff Girls
Invader Zim
Cucumber Quest
Calvin and Hobbes
Silent Hill
Anonymous / 4chan
8-Bit Theater
Animator vs. Animation
Sweeney Todd
Kung Pow! Enter the Fist
Mach Rider
Tetris
Pong
Rokko Chan
Cave Story
Earthworm Jim
Freedom Planet
Shadow of the Colossus
Goemon
Mighty No. 9
Azure Striker Gunvolt
Commander Keen
Hollow Knight
Jak and Daxter
Wonderful 101
Ratchet & Clank
Dangan Ronpa
Vigilante 8
Wild ARMS
Phantom Brave
Quest 64
Billy Hatcher
NiGHTS
Bomberman
Battalion Wars
Worms
Portal
Diablo
Ghosts ‘n Goblins
Sengoku Basara
The Dark Crystal
A Certain Magical Index
Inuyasha
Elfen Lied
Katekyo Hitman Reborn!
Doom
Cooking Mama
Of course, we have a little reward to give everyone, so myself, Smady, Kupa and UserShadow have pledged to do our best to comment every set posted in this time within one week of entries closing! That's some high quality commentary, although do be aware things outside of our control could delay it, but the ideal is within a week and it will be ASAP regardless.
In addition, if we reach a total of 12 sets during this time period, me and Smady will upgrade our comments into fullblown Audio Comments, much like ForwardArrow and Smady did in MYM22's Opposite Day! Unless by request you would prefer a written comment. It's also possible I will have another reward to hand out to people, but I'll keep that under wraps since it might not pan out.
This was meant to be posted on May 1st, but for various reasons was delayed until today, so the Franchise Challenge will instead end on June 7th rather than the planned June 1st. That essentially gives you all three extra days comparitively, so you should be happy. Entries can be posted at any point between now and then, or you could save them all for one biiiiiig day at the end like last time. It's everyone's own call on what they feel like!
Whatever the case, hopefully we get some interesting selections given the wide variety of set options, and I look forward to any entries y'all put out!
FrozenRoy
Smash Lord
Snomf (Snom
GolisoPower
)
Heyo, Goliso! Been nice seeing you post so many sets, particularly Reimu since I'm a huge Touhou fan (I even made a set for her that placed way back in MYM15), thought I'd give Snom a read since it's a quick and easy to read set.
First thing I'll go into, I think the direction for this set is pretty good, Snom being a risk-reward character who is small but also very light, so their offensive prowess is quite dangerous to turn on them. The set gives a pretty basic idea of how the moves come together with the idea which helps keep the set from feeling bare, there's a few fine attacks like Up Smash, Down Tilt, Forward Throw and the like, I enjoy the use of Snom's small size with stuff like hurtbox shifting or reducing attacks/charge which feel like a good way to use Snom's caterpillar shape/size. I'm also a fan of Struggle Bug, making a "get off me" move where it actually not only goes off but gets stronger if you're grabbed feels like an interesting twist that could even have a playstyle played around it (like moves that are bad vs. shield/easily shieldgrabbed to bait out grabs) and I can see it fitting for Snom. It's got a fairly solid base to it.
I do have concerns very akin to Slavic in terms of various moves/execution in this set, especially Attract. Translating Attract as an effect due to Snom's incredible cuteness is clever, this kind of effect definitely has some issues with "character destruction" (would Ganondorf or King K. Rool really find Snom that cute?) but I'm more willing to accept it here given Snom is a low potential character and given it's a Pokemon move you can argue it's just magic anyway. The bigger issue I have with the move is the effect, a 50/50 chance to just Not Attack is extremely strong and probably very annoying not just due to the effect but because it is so luck based. If you wanted this effect, I would instead have it activate, I dunno, on the third attack after you hit the foe, so both you and the opponent can play around it. You also could instead make it just a basic "hit towards me" move or whatnot. If you do keep the attack negation in, you also should describe the mechanics of it, to be specific if it is lagless or if the opponent takes some level of lag when they're unable to attack. If it's the former they can just mash the attack after all. I will say I like the idea Slavic suggested of Attract as a counter where Snom lures the foe in by looking cute and helpless before striking back if they attack.
The ability to freeze really casual on a projectile might add to being annoying, although it is possible it wouldn't be so bad, I do wonder if Powder Snow would be better applying some kind of debuff, then hitting with an icy move causes the opponent to freeze over which could allow you to add in an icy effect on some non-Specials that lets Snom freeze foes mid combo as an extender. Icy Thread just flatout freezing feels fine to me. It isn't the worst overall but could be better.
Finally, I wasn't a fan of the grab game's flavor, Snom just falling asleep and "accidentally" throwing the opponent felt very odd on Snom as a character in addition to me not being a fan of these kind of accidental animations being heavily used. I do like Forward Throw's properties a good deal, propelling Snom forward along with the foe, but the other throws don't really do much for me. I would probably have Snom grab the foe with its mandibles (which are bizarrely underutilized here) and then go from there, keep Forward Throw's effect with a new animation, maybe a throw with an icy component (like an icy mandible bite?) that works with a Side Special debuff? I think as a non-throw move note a mandible bite with a weak sourspot but a particularly strong sweetspot could play into Snom's love of freezing (keep them in place for the sweetspot!) and the risk-reward elements of Snom.
Overall, Snom has a pretty solid base that is largely let down by some stuff I quite don't like and the fact it could be soooomewhat more, I don't think it'd be too hard to edit this moveset up anyway and it was a fun and breezy read which was enjoyable. Looking forward to reading your other sets when I get the chance anyway, Goliso.
Fortune Favors the Bold ("Lucky" Louise U UserShadow7989 )
Audio Comment: https://voca.ro/2TVOKeVf242
Summary: I was really hoping Mami would stay at the top of my rankings for longer, but Louise just had to be read earlier and change that. The best UserShadow characterization, creates a chaotic "old school construct" style MYM set which is blended very well with modern sensibilities and knowledge, does the extremely hard job of both having a flawed melee game for a character whose melee is supposed to be weak while giving it very interesting playstyle in the set, I love the rather unique time bomb, the way the chip tower works, the dice mechanic, and so on. It's the best US set and there's pretty much no way this isn't an SV.
Fierce Bean Trooper (Fierce Pork Trooper
Reiga
)
Fierce Pork Trooper finished and ranked. I would definitely feel more confident if the aforementioned Thunder Tower/Pork Bean balance changes I said were made. One of my larger issues with this set is it feels underpowered, with FPT having heavyweight-level lag often without the associated benefit, and while he has powerful options with the Thunder Tower/Pork Bean they are incredibly punishing to FPT to use right now and could easily be cut in half (at the least for Thunder Tower). Oh, and I'd definitely remove the super punishing NAir-Thunder lag.
I like Piggy Nose but I do think it could be stronger, maybe not with the movement effect, but giving FPT some extra buffs? For two thoughts, you could hold B during the Pork Bean's startup to track the opponent you have sniffed out with Piggy Nose, maybe hold B during the attack to do the same as a homing Wario Bike. F-Smash could get its super armor much earlier (Frame 4/5?) against attacks from the sniffed out foe, due to FPT being able to anticipate the foe's attack by their scent!
Leaving that aside, FPT constructs a basic if fun gameplay with stuff like the PK-Thunder-esque aerials, a competent but small aerial combo game and heavyweight strikes that combined with his setup makes him feel a bit more mobile and jivin'. It isn't going to blow anyone away but it is nice enough to enjoy, I thought stuff like BAir was fun, Down Smash's turnaround options and how it played into the set were fun (maybe F-Smash could have a turnaround option that adds 4 frames of lag to it, but those frames are super armored still so it's a back-catching option?), the anti-air focus felt logical and it built some fun character for this goofy small time Mother antagonist.
It's in WV range at 5 star but it'd be a lot more solid/less likely to drop off from other sets with some balance changes, which makes it significantly better than Tamaki Damo last contest (which I think was your last set in like an Eternity).
GolisoPower
)Heyo, Goliso! Been nice seeing you post so many sets, particularly Reimu since I'm a huge Touhou fan (I even made a set for her that placed way back in MYM15), thought I'd give Snom a read since it's a quick and easy to read set.
First thing I'll go into, I think the direction for this set is pretty good, Snom being a risk-reward character who is small but also very light, so their offensive prowess is quite dangerous to turn on them. The set gives a pretty basic idea of how the moves come together with the idea which helps keep the set from feeling bare, there's a few fine attacks like Up Smash, Down Tilt, Forward Throw and the like, I enjoy the use of Snom's small size with stuff like hurtbox shifting or reducing attacks/charge which feel like a good way to use Snom's caterpillar shape/size. I'm also a fan of Struggle Bug, making a "get off me" move where it actually not only goes off but gets stronger if you're grabbed feels like an interesting twist that could even have a playstyle played around it (like moves that are bad vs. shield/easily shieldgrabbed to bait out grabs) and I can see it fitting for Snom. It's got a fairly solid base to it.
I do have concerns very akin to Slavic in terms of various moves/execution in this set, especially Attract. Translating Attract as an effect due to Snom's incredible cuteness is clever, this kind of effect definitely has some issues with "character destruction" (would Ganondorf or King K. Rool really find Snom that cute?) but I'm more willing to accept it here given Snom is a low potential character and given it's a Pokemon move you can argue it's just magic anyway. The bigger issue I have with the move is the effect, a 50/50 chance to just Not Attack is extremely strong and probably very annoying not just due to the effect but because it is so luck based. If you wanted this effect, I would instead have it activate, I dunno, on the third attack after you hit the foe, so both you and the opponent can play around it. You also could instead make it just a basic "hit towards me" move or whatnot. If you do keep the attack negation in, you also should describe the mechanics of it, to be specific if it is lagless or if the opponent takes some level of lag when they're unable to attack. If it's the former they can just mash the attack after all. I will say I like the idea Slavic suggested of Attract as a counter where Snom lures the foe in by looking cute and helpless before striking back if they attack.
The ability to freeze really casual on a projectile might add to being annoying, although it is possible it wouldn't be so bad, I do wonder if Powder Snow would be better applying some kind of debuff, then hitting with an icy move causes the opponent to freeze over which could allow you to add in an icy effect on some non-Specials that lets Snom freeze foes mid combo as an extender. Icy Thread just flatout freezing feels fine to me. It isn't the worst overall but could be better.
Finally, I wasn't a fan of the grab game's flavor, Snom just falling asleep and "accidentally" throwing the opponent felt very odd on Snom as a character in addition to me not being a fan of these kind of accidental animations being heavily used. I do like Forward Throw's properties a good deal, propelling Snom forward along with the foe, but the other throws don't really do much for me. I would probably have Snom grab the foe with its mandibles (which are bizarrely underutilized here) and then go from there, keep Forward Throw's effect with a new animation, maybe a throw with an icy component (like an icy mandible bite?) that works with a Side Special debuff? I think as a non-throw move note a mandible bite with a weak sourspot but a particularly strong sweetspot could play into Snom's love of freezing (keep them in place for the sweetspot!) and the risk-reward elements of Snom.
Overall, Snom has a pretty solid base that is largely let down by some stuff I quite don't like and the fact it could be soooomewhat more, I don't think it'd be too hard to edit this moveset up anyway and it was a fun and breezy read which was enjoyable. Looking forward to reading your other sets when I get the chance anyway, Goliso.
Fortune Favors the Bold ("Lucky" Louise U UserShadow7989 )
Audio Comment: https://voca.ro/2TVOKeVf242
Summary: I was really hoping Mami would stay at the top of my rankings for longer, but Louise just had to be read earlier and change that. The best UserShadow characterization, creates a chaotic "old school construct" style MYM set which is blended very well with modern sensibilities and knowledge, does the extremely hard job of both having a flawed melee game for a character whose melee is supposed to be weak while giving it very interesting playstyle in the set, I love the rather unique time bomb, the way the chip tower works, the dice mechanic, and so on. It's the best US set and there's pretty much no way this isn't an SV.
Fierce Bean Trooper (Fierce Pork Trooper
Reiga
)Fierce Pork Trooper finished and ranked. I would definitely feel more confident if the aforementioned Thunder Tower/Pork Bean balance changes I said were made. One of my larger issues with this set is it feels underpowered, with FPT having heavyweight-level lag often without the associated benefit, and while he has powerful options with the Thunder Tower/Pork Bean they are incredibly punishing to FPT to use right now and could easily be cut in half (at the least for Thunder Tower). Oh, and I'd definitely remove the super punishing NAir-Thunder lag.
I like Piggy Nose but I do think it could be stronger, maybe not with the movement effect, but giving FPT some extra buffs? For two thoughts, you could hold B during the Pork Bean's startup to track the opponent you have sniffed out with Piggy Nose, maybe hold B during the attack to do the same as a homing Wario Bike. F-Smash could get its super armor much earlier (Frame 4/5?) against attacks from the sniffed out foe, due to FPT being able to anticipate the foe's attack by their scent!
Leaving that aside, FPT constructs a basic if fun gameplay with stuff like the PK-Thunder-esque aerials, a competent but small aerial combo game and heavyweight strikes that combined with his setup makes him feel a bit more mobile and jivin'. It isn't going to blow anyone away but it is nice enough to enjoy, I thought stuff like BAir was fun, Down Smash's turnaround options and how it played into the set were fun (maybe F-Smash could have a turnaround option that adds 4 frames of lag to it, but those frames are super armored still so it's a back-catching option?), the anti-air focus felt logical and it built some fun character for this goofy small time Mother antagonist.
It's in WV range at 5 star but it'd be a lot more solid/less likely to drop off from other sets with some balance changes, which makes it significantly better than Tamaki Damo last contest (which I think was your last set in like an Eternity).
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GolisoPower
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2017
- Messages
- 4,397
Thank you for your feedback, Roy!
On your comments with Attract, the 50/50 hitbox removal mechanics was meant to simulate the Infatuation effect present in the Pokemon titles, where there was a 50/50 chance of the opponent not attacking, so I tried to be a little faithful here, in spite of Infatuation only working on the opposite gender in the original games. But then again, you're right, the luck-based effects could be replaced with something better, whether it's the effects you proposed or Slavic's "cute counter". Again, thank you for the feedback.
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FrozenRoy
Smash Lord
Yeah, I feel ya on simulating the infatuation effect like how Flare Blitz simulates recoil, but sometimes just translating just doesn't work out unfortunately (and you can see this in Smash too). I'm glad you found the feedback helpful and I hope you keep pushin' out sets as it is nice to see such activity from you!
GolisoPower
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2017
- Messages
- 4,397
Patch Notes for Snom are up, creating a better way to simulate Infatuation for Attract, and reworked Powder Snow, since I feel like Icy Thread's freeze is enough as is.
EDIT: While a ***** and a half, I also managed to add tips to the Doom Slayer's moves!
EDIT: While a ***** and a half, I also managed to add tips to the Doom Slayer's moves!
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Hey, I know this sounds like warning a brand new toy, but would you be okay with adding a Classic Mode Route? You don’t HAVE to if you don’t want.
plague126
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2020
- Messages
- 35
Those look like good changes!
GolisoPower
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2017
- Messages
- 4,397
The kitsune. A fox spirit prominent in a majority of Japanese media. Multi-tailed creatures that are regarded as tricksters, they are adept at magic and are known for shapeshifting into beautiful women to seduce victims to mess with them. From large, village-destroying monsters sealed in knuckle-headed shinobi to servants of danmaku-loving youkai to flying friends of speedy blue hedgehogs, many memorable characters are these creatures.
But I'm not here to talk about the kitsune, but rather its Korean counterpart: the kumiho, who are similar but seduce men to devour their hearts or livers. You may not see many in the industry today, but there's one that I'm here to talk and about. Who am I talking about? Well, let's just say...
She has a bit of "charm" to her...
(Is the link working for anyone? Because for some reason, Google Docs isn't giving me the option to make it public.)
But I'm not here to talk about the kitsune, but rather its Korean counterpart: the kumiho, who are similar but seduce men to devour their hearts or livers. You may not see many in the industry today, but there's one that I'm here to talk and about. Who am I talking about? Well, let's just say...
She has a bit of "charm" to her...
(Is the link working for anyone? Because for some reason, Google Docs isn't giving me the option to make it public.)
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D
Deleted member
Guest
I've definitely had my fair share of playing with the fat boy since the original Pennywise sets. While I was playing, you were clearly reading, writing and learning all about Smash Bros. Down here we all flowt!
Needless to say the writing style of this set was awesome. I've rarely had such a fun time reading a set and as a big Pennywise fan, it's a definite home run. Besides the direct references to the TV series, the humour in the set really fits for Pennywise. Make Your Move has a unique perspective to Pennywise because of its history but the tone this set takes being so indirect works very well for the elusive and taunting Pennywise. He's always been a perfect blend for MYM and that is just as strong in his modern day moveset.
The moveset itself is no slouch on bringing in what makes Pennywise great into the concepts of the set either. The use of muffling sound through the balloons was especially surprising in its creativity making an unworkable concept work quite well. I do feel not one-hundred-percent sold on the idea of muffling sounds being entirely viable in game, but it works well enough because of the moves you have that go into decent detail. Using sound to hide similar animations is a smart way of going about it, and again fits the Pennywise character well. Balloons are as important as they should be given they're Pennywise's namesake, and I really enjoyed some of the minor details here such as how Pennywise wants you to try a bunch at the same time. Though not always super viable necessarily, it does work, and it's really fun.
The set sheds the wordiness of your sets last MYM and intelligently just uses some shorthand where necessary. You don't go into incredible depth on the exact mechanics of the fridge's physics or later on when you do some interactions, and I actually quite liked that as a writing style change from you. The set is an absolute breeze to read as a result.
A surprising facet of the set that really sells it is a few choices of what concepts you used and you made the perfect choices. The fsmash is one of if not the best move, second to only perhaps the fridge, and that is because you chose to compact the entire spider form onto this one move. It's not even that hard to code this sort of thing in game if you look how weird moves like Chomp effect character models already, transforming into another huge model is very doable! The deadlights are handled great and are an important piece of the puzzle when his specials besides the fridge are a good bit more subtle.
The other part of the set that's impressively thought out is the melee. You chose to use that iconic claw of his for the melee, and his acrobatics for other parts. There's almost no punching or kicking out of Pennywise. I myself may have had a couple of clown-y slaps or uppercuts in there, but I do really respect your dedication to clownin' around and keeping it all non-fighting moves, while also making sure it's all well balanced melee at the same time.
The only moves I was a little iffy on was the head juggling, primarily for just how big these projectiles would be, and the lack of much animation for Pennywise as he juggles things, seeming more like a special to me. But these aren't a big deal to me, I'd just prefer something more traditional like tossing the heads in an emphatic throw. This is more the uair than utilt, as tilts can afford more to be like specials, as Muno proved in his years in MYM.
This was a delightful read for definite and I do wish, even if not perfect, that MYM sets were all a little bit like this one. Both for the fun relatable characterisation that anyone can sink their teeth/intergalactic evil space terror clown fangs into, the readability, the fun. Fun is the word of the day here! As far as direct comparisons I do think it could very well stand up to some of your best and stands toe-to-toe with the other great horror set, Ghostface. It's everything I hoped it would be and yes, I do want it.
Needless to say the writing style of this set was awesome. I've rarely had such a fun time reading a set and as a big Pennywise fan, it's a definite home run. Besides the direct references to the TV series, the humour in the set really fits for Pennywise. Make Your Move has a unique perspective to Pennywise because of its history but the tone this set takes being so indirect works very well for the elusive and taunting Pennywise. He's always been a perfect blend for MYM and that is just as strong in his modern day moveset.
The moveset itself is no slouch on bringing in what makes Pennywise great into the concepts of the set either. The use of muffling sound through the balloons was especially surprising in its creativity making an unworkable concept work quite well. I do feel not one-hundred-percent sold on the idea of muffling sounds being entirely viable in game, but it works well enough because of the moves you have that go into decent detail. Using sound to hide similar animations is a smart way of going about it, and again fits the Pennywise character well. Balloons are as important as they should be given they're Pennywise's namesake, and I really enjoyed some of the minor details here such as how Pennywise wants you to try a bunch at the same time. Though not always super viable necessarily, it does work, and it's really fun.
The set sheds the wordiness of your sets last MYM and intelligently just uses some shorthand where necessary. You don't go into incredible depth on the exact mechanics of the fridge's physics or later on when you do some interactions, and I actually quite liked that as a writing style change from you. The set is an absolute breeze to read as a result.
A surprising facet of the set that really sells it is a few choices of what concepts you used and you made the perfect choices. The fsmash is one of if not the best move, second to only perhaps the fridge, and that is because you chose to compact the entire spider form onto this one move. It's not even that hard to code this sort of thing in game if you look how weird moves like Chomp effect character models already, transforming into another huge model is very doable! The deadlights are handled great and are an important piece of the puzzle when his specials besides the fridge are a good bit more subtle.
The other part of the set that's impressively thought out is the melee. You chose to use that iconic claw of his for the melee, and his acrobatics for other parts. There's almost no punching or kicking out of Pennywise. I myself may have had a couple of clown-y slaps or uppercuts in there, but I do really respect your dedication to clownin' around and keeping it all non-fighting moves, while also making sure it's all well balanced melee at the same time.
The only moves I was a little iffy on was the head juggling, primarily for just how big these projectiles would be, and the lack of much animation for Pennywise as he juggles things, seeming more like a special to me. But these aren't a big deal to me, I'd just prefer something more traditional like tossing the heads in an emphatic throw. This is more the uair than utilt, as tilts can afford more to be like specials, as Muno proved in his years in MYM.
This was a delightful read for definite and I do wish, even if not perfect, that MYM sets were all a little bit like this one. Both for the fun relatable characterisation that anyone can sink their teeth/intergalactic evil space terror clown fangs into, the readability, the fun. Fun is the word of the day here! As far as direct comparisons I do think it could very well stand up to some of your best and stands toe-to-toe with the other great horror set, Ghostface. It's everything I hoped it would be and yes, I do want it.
GolisoPower
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2017
- Messages
- 4,397
Ah, thank you again, plague!
The reason for having a 20-second cooldown on Spirit Rush was because of how ultimates in LoL had exceptionally high cooldowns and I sure as hell wasn't gonna give it the game-original cooldowns (I mean, 80 seconds would make it practically useless in Smash), and considering that, I had to balance it somewhat. But again, thank you very much.
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Borbheadlian
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- May 15, 2020
- Messages
- 1
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wZ8bEpm8an1ktIhHjcBxcr7SbXDRV2v7CSyw5hCSYs4/edit
This is my set for Iyami from Osomatsu-Kun. Enjoy. I am new at this and would appreciate harsh feedback and help. Thank you.
This is my set for Iyami from Osomatsu-Kun. Enjoy. I am new at this and would appreciate harsh feedback and help. Thank you.
GolisoPower
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2017
- Messages
- 4,397
Here's my first shot at commenting:
Iyami: I like what you're going for with this, but what's holding it back is an immense lack of detail in some moves. Take a good look at other kits for reference, like Fierce Pork Trooper or skekMal or one of my own sets with Ahri or Snom. You'll find some very detailed explanations of each of the moves listed in them. Now, I'm not saying you have to be equal in detail to them, but if you get more in-depth about it, I'm sure you'll give people like me a better idea as to the synergy between those moves and their best applications. But I'll give credit where it's due, I really like the flavor of this set. Now I've seen some clips of Osomatsu-kun, but I've seen enough to know that this set definitely replicates the whacky, random nature of the show, and I have to give some major props for that. So long of the short of it? Details are everything in a set. You're new here, and that's okay, but try to keep detail in mind next time you make a set here.
Iyami: I like what you're going for with this, but what's holding it back is an immense lack of detail in some moves. Take a good look at other kits for reference, like Fierce Pork Trooper or skekMal or one of my own sets with Ahri or Snom. You'll find some very detailed explanations of each of the moves listed in them. Now, I'm not saying you have to be equal in detail to them, but if you get more in-depth about it, I'm sure you'll give people like me a better idea as to the synergy between those moves and their best applications. But I'll give credit where it's due, I really like the flavor of this set. Now I've seen some clips of Osomatsu-kun, but I've seen enough to know that this set definitely replicates the whacky, random nature of the show, and I have to give some major props for that. So long of the short of it? Details are everything in a set. You're new here, and that's okay, but try to keep detail in mind next time you make a set here.
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plague126
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2020
- Messages
- 35
GolisoPower
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2017
- Messages
- 4,397
Heist Mark: The character's origin slipped me at first, but after reading it, I remembered and I'm basically sold on this set! I really like how you pulled off the Specials, it really does turn a regular Smash match into a Choose Your Own Adventure game. But what really stuck out to me are the Up and Down Specials. I really like how you blended Joker's and Byleth's Up B's for Mark's Up-B. The choice of "either come to me or I'm comin' to you" based on whether you're on the ground or in the air really makes for some really severe mental pressure for opponents. The sandwiches were a treat too, basically picking between Heal or Oomph, and I like how you pick one or the other based on the situation. You wanna close in for the kill? Eat that tuna! Oh no, you're so dangerously high on damage? It's peanut butter jelly time! But what really sells it is when you throw them. The debuffs seem rather fitting for the effects they have on you and I just can't help but get a laugh out of it.
As for the rest of his attacks, I'm especially happy about the amount of creativity there is here. The light bulb Up-tilt is something that stuck out to me and I never would've thought to use something like that. And picturing the Majestic Flop in a Smash match gave me a little chuckle, too. I was especially blown away with how you implemented Forward throw, too, giving him basically 7 throws in a single kit if I'm counting right! The way you implement the whip is just so genius and I never would've imagined something like that in Smash. The Final Smash is fitting raw chaos and a real treat, too. With so much happening at the same time, all referencing the many paths of A Heist with Markiplier, I really can't express enough how great this is. There's a big goofy smile on my face just reading all these moves. You did a great job, plague!
As for the rest of his attacks, I'm especially happy about the amount of creativity there is here. The light bulb Up-tilt is something that stuck out to me and I never would've thought to use something like that. And picturing the Majestic Flop in a Smash match gave me a little chuckle, too. I was especially blown away with how you implemented Forward throw, too, giving him basically 7 throws in a single kit if I'm counting right! The way you implement the whip is just so genius and I never would've imagined something like that in Smash. The Final Smash is fitting raw chaos and a real treat, too. With so much happening at the same time, all referencing the many paths of A Heist with Markiplier, I really can't express enough how great this is. There's a big goofy smile on my face just reading all these moves. You did a great job, plague!
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