- Nov 18, 2014
- Charleston, South Carolina
- 3DS FC
- Switch FC
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Ooh, I like that! I'll probably change that in the next edit.@ Munomario777 :
Honestly though, what I would have done for Silver's pummel if you want to go with something like that is to copy-paste the frame data and damage from the foe's pummel rather than their jab, and have the animation look more like they're pummeling themselves. There are characters that a "pummeling themselves" animation doesn't work on, but for those you probably just substitute them punching themselves in the face (or hitting themselves in the face with whatever other limb if they don't have arms). For example: Marth would be forced to curl up and knee himself in the face; Lucario would end up palm-striking himself in the face with both hands simultaneously, looking like he's accidentally double-facepalming so hard he snaps his neck back.
Indeed. I do think that fixing little things like this can help improve a set, but you should also focus on the big picture a bit more when commenting.Jamie, can I make a request that you do something besides nitpick individual moves in your comments? You say fairly little about the set on a whole when you do that, and maybe its not fair for me to tell you how to comment, but I'd like to see any thoughts on the overall concepts presented rather than just nitpicking minor incongruous things(though I actually think the Up Throw bit is a remotely big deal and Kiwi needs to fix that) because MYM is not entirely about technical implementation even if balance is a factor, we're not asking the Brawl modders to jam our sets directly into the game.
Well, most of my moveset-design and balancing experience actually comes from the Brawl modding community, so I'm probably approaching this contest with the wrong mindset.Jamie, can I make a request that you do something besides nitpick individual moves in your comments? You say fairly little about the set on a whole when you do that, and maybe its not fair for me to tell you how to comment, but I'd like to see any thoughts on the overall concepts presented rather than just nitpicking minor incongruous things(though I actually think the Up Throw bit is a remotely big deal and Kiwi needs to fix that) because MYM is not entirely about technical implementation even if balance is a factor, we're not asking the Brawl modders to jam our sets directly into the game.
Same. I made a convo just for drafts, asked the other person to leave, and then edited what I had already said in that convo to use as the drafts. Make sure you write a few messages before they leave, since you can't actually add new messages to "empty" conversations.I tend to write mine in old conversations to get the BBCoding right and to have a safe place to keep them stored
Good idea. I'll probably vary things up from attack to attack to keep the damage in perspective and to make it more interesting.Inkling
I owe you a comment on this since I mentioned I read it a while ago, but its a somewhat hard set for me to comment because there's nothing standout here that's really fundamentally wrong with the set. Its more a lot of little things that add up and make me think very little of the set. To start off, the inking mechanic feels really static when it has the same damage and duration in every instance, I think varying it up honestly would've been nice and while you might think it works for ease of reading it actually makes some moves very awkward to read as you have to remember the move does 15% more than you think it does and causes the opponent to trail ink. Its all very static and even if you always made the ink deal 3% per second on every input you could at least vary the duration, as on some moves I think it does make them do too much damage.
At the moment, it would just reset the timer. This may need changing if I do vary it up, though.I'm also not really sure quite how inking "stacks", like if you throw on another layer does it add another 5 seconds of 3% per second after the current ones? Just refresh the duration?
Very good point. I'll apply a bit of a knockback nerf when I go back through the set.Inkling has a lot of attacks that stack it, this is pretty important information to the set's balance because as is it honestly feels really strong, I don't know much about SSB4 numbers but her KO percents are pretty early(100% on a throw would be absolute murder in Brawl) and her damage is very high from the inking mechanic.
There are themes in there. The Side Specials all make a steady, straight trail of Ink as they move along the ground, the Up Specials all have Inkling become a squid and launch into the air, and the Down Specials are all about placing something on the ground that makes Ink. They're not as similar as, say, Mario's customs of course, but I was going for a more "varied" approach like what, say, Palutena and the Miis use. I honestly think that they should have done this with all of the customs, but oh well.As for the ink itself once its on stage, you do provide a decent variety of options to use it on each Special and have any material to flow off it in the standards, which is good, and you at least removed the stupid grates property to prevent her from being too horribly gimped on Delfino Plaza. The problem is honestly as Custom Specials they feel very unrelated, not really being variations on a theme as literally entirely different specials in most cases past the Neutral Special.
Inklings don't really have a set personality, but I do agree that this is a bit out of character in retrospect.That said, at the very least the Specials themselves are not particularly bad, but the throws section is terrible, Inkling has way too much tying the opponent to the stage like some kind of cartoon villain and then dropping some bomb on them, which feels overly sadistic and bizarre on this character choice.
Very true.It really doesn't help that the Sprinkler throw is a stun, so why not just regrab them and infinite them with it, its not hard.
Diving into Ink really is the Inkling's best mobility tool (going from Robin's ground speed to Captain Falcon's is a godsend), so I expect players to use it a lot. The meter will refill a bit when you're not inside Ink as well, so it shouldn't hamper Inkling that much.I also think the ink meter is a pretty unnecessary and annoying addition, ammo banks are rarely a good idea if you don't have much of a reason for them to exist, see Blocks over there for an actually good one, though it does at least make me less concerned about her being overpowered. I mostly just feel like it'd make her more frustrating to play than she really needs to be, forcing her to keep ink diving.
I feel like the flight mechanic replicates the feel of the original NiGHTS games, and that tacking the paralooping onto a move would sort of lower the versatility and feel of the technique as a whole. One would have to play it yourself to see whether or not it works well, but I think that this is the way to go. I do have an idea to replace the Side Special, though,At any rate, I've ranted a lot, but the set has some decent Specials and Smashes and if it weren't for a lot of the random baggage on it I could see myself a little more open to what its trying to accomplish, but it just comes across as messy and ultimately doesn't accomplish anything interesting with a character who has so many props. If anything I think I prefer the MYM16 version because it has most of the actually decent things from this set and much fewer of the bad, so I'm afraid I have to give a thumbs down on this one.
This was probably my favorite of your original 4 Munomario, because the way the paralooping works is actually kind of unique even amongst MYM sets and was able to hold my interest more than I expected it too through the specials. The Neutral, Up, and Down Specials actually gave him decent material to play off the concept, but honestly, I find it really awkward to just have something like that simply tied to a flight mechanic when it deals damage and manipulates objects on the stage. The whole paralooping thing would feel very at home on Up Special, and as the Side Special is a pretty poor move overall(the main reason Wario's bike is interesting is because you can break it into parts, not because you get turned into a predictable moving obstacle) maybe you should've switched the flute move to Side B and just made Paralooping/Flight the Up Special.
I've gotten comments like this in the past. I'll see what I can do to make the moveset tie into the flight mechanic a bit better.Either way, the standards, smashes, and aerials all have really nothing for me to talk about in them, the set's quality drops off hard at those points and the at least somewhat interesting mechanics you establish earlier may as well not exist.
I might lower the bonuses to make it a bit less one-sided (or whatever you'd like to call it). I think using the diamond may make it a bit too situational.You bring it back in the grab game, but it mostly comes across as a gimmick here because the only thing it does new with paralooping is just getting more damage and knockback when the foe circles in that direction around you, and I think in most cases you'd just wait and throw them when they're in that position and its not really as dynamic as you'd probably want(I guess grab difficulty plays a part, but then you'd just use whatever throw comes first in that circle 99% of the time, which is kind of bad as it defeats the point of using any other throws at low percentages). Also for that matter, maybe the throw could do more when the opponent is thrown in the direction they are in the loop, like trigger the diamond blasting them immediately or something.
The Side and Neutral Specials actually came rather naturally; they're two signature abilities of the power-up in 3D World. I do agree that the Up Special is rather odd for the character and all, but I'm not quite sure what else one could do for an upwards recovery move for this sort of character. Actually, now that I think about it, I could just leave vertical recovery to the climbing and use the Up Special for a different kind of attack. I'll play around with this and see what I get.Either way, the start's not bad, its more that any momentum the set had dies almost immediately.
I found unlike Inkling and Nights, you were clearly struggling even in the Specials of this set, with the Neutral and Side Specials having nothing that actually makes them Special and the Up Special just being bizarre(why can he just summon this propeller platform, I know its in his game but it feels really tacky compared to Mario's regular set).
This could replace the Up Special in some way. I'll see what I can do.I don't really think the set had much of a decent basis and that continues for the rest of the set, but one aspect of it did actually stick out to me and that was Down Smash, which actually was a pretty cool move and really should have been a Special instead of, at the very least, Side or Neutral Special.
Very true. I'll work on this once I get it into a special.It even lightly interacts off Down Special, as you can create a huge block of coins for healing's sake, but sadly nothing that could make much use of it is ever brought up again.
Auto-canceling is, normally, when you land during the very few first or last frames of an aerial. This makes it so that the landing lag you'd usually suffer if you landed in the middle of an attack doesn't happen, and you instead go through the regular landing animation (if you just jumped and landed without doing anything). Many aerials have a specific duration that makes it so that if you short hop and perform the aerial, the attack will enter these special frames right when you land, and it autocancels. With Cat Mario, he has a mechanic where this can happen during the entire attack rather than just those few frames, essentially removing landing lag altogether.I feel like the autocancelling aerials and stage clinging abilities might at least give his air game any actual depth to them, though I wonder if the cancelling aspect is a bit too easy(I'm not as informed on how these kinds of mechanics would work in an actual game sadly, my knowledge of Smash mechanics is honestly pretty bad amongst MYM people), but at the very least that stuff and the Down Smash means the set wouldn't be completely boring if implemented, but the Specials are so horribly underwhelming the set needed something like that to not be less interesting than any existing Smash set that's not like, Dark Pit or something.
Very true. Perhaps instead of stun and all, I could give Plusle the damage and Minun the knockback, or something along those lines.This is my least favorite of your opening day sets Muno, because while duo characters aren't done often, this is not the kind of execution I'd hope for out of one. Plusle and Minun's separate attacks mostly just function like sweetspot/sourspots and that's not particularly interesting as its nothing a single character couldn't just have by themselves, and what's more is, of all the things you could've chosen to make Minun's attacks unique, you make them stun. People don't want to constantly get stunned for .5-1.5 seconds as the set has(though .5 isn't too bad I guess) Minun do in a lot of moves, and 1.5 is particularly egregious as it lets them follow up with basically any attack they could ever want too. You intended to give Minun some more interesting effects than Plusle but all it ended up doing is making him actively worse than a weaker, lower damage Plusle, which is a real shame.
I'll give those a look. Thanks once again for the comments!As far as what I'd actually like out of a duo character set, I made one last contest and it got 7th so while I don't like citing my own sets that's a good one to look at, and for that matter you could also check out Borth-Majar from MYM15, as it makes stronger use of 2 characters than this does fairly easily.
Try:Junk Warrior uses Junk Gardna's shield. It reflects projectiles from the front.
It explains the uses, limitations, and animations involved in the move, while also being at least slightly interesting to read. This problem affects pretty much every single input on both Junk Warrior and Junk Synchron, so I'm not gonna repeat it.Junk Warrior holds out the shield of Junk Gardna, using it to defend his front side. It acts similarly to Pit's old Mirror Shield: While he holds it up, any projectile attacks that hit it will be reflected back to their source, dealing the same amount of damage they would have dealt to Junk Warrior. There's no time limit on how long he can hold out the shield, but it's not recommend you hold it for too long, because Junk Warrior can't move during the special, and the shield won't block physical attacks, leaving you open to punishment!
Plusule +- Minun by @ Munomario777
Others have said a lot of what I was gonna say, so I'll keep this brief. I like the duality thing, where they have different hitboxs and junk. It kinda reminds me of my own Borth-Majar, but, you know, different. Now, when you said it was a Pikachu semi-clone I was expecting "Two Pichus taped together", or something. I'm glad to see it wasn't that.
But still, there isn't really a lot going on here other than the semi-uniqueness of these semi-clones. The attack mechanics get interesting a few times, but you never really do anything with it. It's the same problem a lot of people have: A lack of interaction. Hell, not even that, just a lack of exploitation. You have this neat positive/negative thing going, but you barely do anything at all with it. I recommend trying this again in the future, when you have a better grasp on complex playstyle type stuff.
Why not? I feel it gives a nice in-game analog (and plus, not all stats have been fully analyzed in Smash 4 yet).
You can easily exit flight, perform an aerial, and re-enter flight without a hitch. Executing aerials in flight might be a bit awkward, since the control stick would then be both controlling flight and the aerial you use.Give Nights a Flight mode specific attack is neat, but the one you gave him (her? (it?)) isn't really great. I would have preferred just being able to use aerials, frankly. And Acrobatics is... yeah, just let them use aerials.
You can also use the grab for paralooping things like the Dream Diamond, which won't count towards flight time.Plus, I don't think the flight lasts long enough, guys. It seems like it would take more than the allotted time to Paraloop and then make use of said paralooping. Like, the Dream Diamond following Nights doesn't do much when you only have a half second of flight left, you know?
Right, I'll work on that.Now, I'm only gonna comment on specials, otherwise I would just quote the segment from Steven Universe about how none of the attacks seem to be connected or coherent. It's a problem a lot of people have, actually, so I'm just gonna say "See that part on Steven" when I wanna bring it up later in this post. Now then, moving on to specials.
Will do.Dream Diamond is underdecribed. You say it lasts ten seconds-- why? Does it fire out more than one laser? If so, how many and how frequently? Can enemies destroy the diamond? If they can, how much HP does it have? Can Nights have out more than one at a time? This stuff is important info. Include it.
The side special is jarringly out of place. I would have just made it the Drill Dash. A completely new form (which doesn't have any interactions with the rest of the set) with no benefits I can actually see is pointless and useless. I mean, like, what benefit is there to vehicle mode? You lose all of your ranged attacks, throws, etc. and gain nothing.
It does sort of play into the other moves like the Dream Diamond in that it increases the speed of flight. You can move the Dream Diamond around at a higher speed, the Dream Dust trail can be longer, et cetera.Dream Flute is... comparatively fine, sure, but it really should interact with his other moves somehow. Why not make it so the windbox moves his Dream Diamonds, or moves his sparkle mist thing around, or something.
True. I'll definitely take this into account.The minions don't have any interactions aside from Paralooping. The rocket is pretty overpowered for a guidable projectile, and the dragon and dolphin seem to be exactly the same, except the dragon breathes fire and is a better option overall.
Yay! I can't wait...Tune in tomorrow, when I make Munomario cry.
Puggly by @ Purin a.k.a. José
This is your first set, right? Well, it's certainly an interesting character choice to say the least. Let me walk you through this, help you out with some things:
Generally, the jab is meant to be one attack that deals less than, say 5% per hit. Some people have jab combos, but that's a little more rare. So saying that it does "10% overall" doesn't really mean anything. Instead, describe the damage of an individual lick.
The rest of the tilts are just underdescribed-- I'll get to that point later.
I'm sincerely hoping the side smash is a joke. I can't tell what charging it does, the damage is abysmal, but the 0% KO thing is really bad.
For smashes, they are chargeable attacks, always. Thus, describe what the difference is between no charge and full charge, in terms of damage and knockback. As some people have mentioned, the scaling for damage is that full charge does 1.4x the damage of an uncharged smash, while the knockback is more up to your discretion.
A long range attack dealing 45% is insane, man, even if you have to charge it. Burp OP, please nerf. The up special lasts way too long. Otherwise...
All the attacks share one problem: You barely describe them. A good rule of thumb is that if a move is described in one sentence, you aren't saying enough. Describe the animations, describe the uses of the moves, just fill the space somehow. Otherwise, it's just nothing of substance. Though it's very curious you decided to add frame data.
Also, his final smash is, uh, remarkably unclear.
Overall, I've seen worse first sets, but you should definitely practice, improve, and put some real elbow grease into your next set.