Mafia Royal Sleepover - The Party has been Crashed! Mafia Wins!

[~ Gheb ~]

You say that this play is typical of townOS. Has OS ever posted "XXX is the play toDay" in every post of a game? Because otherwise I can't see how you wouldn't see it as odd that (by your own reckoning) he began tunneling you toDay on poor reasoning, and hasn't let up. I don't think it makes sense to discount arsonist FYPOV in this case.

It's not why I discount the arsonist possibility but why I doubt he's mafia. Even the biggest idiot of a scumbuddy would not agree with OS playing like that.
And I can easily see townOS playing like that - just because he didn't do it yet doesn't mean he's not capable of doing it.

What alignment would earnestly play the way he does?

I have to make a point of this, actually.

An arsonist would be looking for a firefighter crumb, don't you think? And therefore, it wouldn't be hard to pick up. Possibly as easy as Ctrl+F /fire/.

I've literally chosen the saying "fighting fire with fire" as the only crumb because it's way too ambiguous to determine as bread crumb without my claim. It has nothing to do with how hard it is to find [and I think it *was* hard to find unless he uses Ctrl+F, which I've never heard of being used] but with what you can make out of it. Even for an arsonist it would be way too risky to openly attack me with that as his basis. As soon as I claim his intention becomes seemingly obvious and my flip would mean his death ... what arsonist in their right mind would play like that? He might as well put a rope around his own neck.

Glyph, an arsonist would probably scan and rescan the thread for crumbs, and mark all potential crumbs down for future reference. If that was the only one he found, then that makes that one stand out. More to the point, Gheb's 749 in which he crumbed was a post that was against crumbing. I'd imagine a town Gheb's intent was misdirection, i.e. obfuscating his crumb, but that the post dealt with crumbing at all is itself a tell.

How so? The point of that post was that a breadcrumb is not evidence and as such its value is overstated. Dropping in a bread crumb - a pretty damn hard one to find at that - is not a tell in the slightest. It was surrounded by quotes and paragraph and it would've taken more effort to find than an indy would likely be willing to put into this game. Nobody saw it. This is not coincidence.

I'm fairly convinced that he's scum at this juncture. Or rather, I've convinced myself of it. His responses to OS' original reasoning have been lacking in and of themselves. Containing some AtE, which I'm to understand is a Gheb standard, but also truncated quoting as OS has pointed out, and some other little niggles I don't like. But I also think we get a lovely read upon his flip, which sweetens the pot.

And yet, all of the people who pointed out the AtE part failed to explain how it is scummy. I even responded to DH, who already made exactly the same case and nobody was able to show the lack of logic.

idk, I'd say that I would put J on like... my 3rd most wanted lynch atm, followed by Zen and OS above him, who are approx tied in my book. I'm fine with either.

Waste of time. Zen isn't dying toDay and J is scummier than OS. You're not accomplishing anything atm.

Your points re: J seem sincere. That said, all the points you addressed are, sadly, typical actions you'd see from J in any game. He's on a sliding scale and those actions should be taken as null at best, scum at worst.

Doesn't clear him from the points I made, which Chibo agreed with.

An OStown flip would clear DH in my eyes, and I'm comfortable with a lynch in that direction. That said, no one else seems to be in his corner, and as such I would see a Gheb flip over an OS flip. I do believe one of the two should go toDay.

This is just bad. How does OStown confirm DHtown? And the "one of the two should go" is just blatant opportunism. You're not even trying to find a constructive solution to this issue and just pick the most comfortable stance.

Nabe, the fact that Gheb supposedly did not see your point about OS being arsonist should show that he is bsing.

Where does this come from? What point was it that I "supposedly" did not see? I've clearly responded to all of his points and there's nothing to miss. I even repeated my points to him just now.

 

[Overswarm]

Then it's settled. We lynch Gheb.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

All I've read is that:
-Gheb claimed firefighter.
-Nabe asked Gheb about OS being arsonist and catching Gheb's crumb.
-Gheb is like nah.

Is this correct? If so, then Gheb is obv scum. If Gheb truly was ff, he would have been on OS' ***. An arsonist would surely catch that crumb. Gheb not thinking so just shows he is trying to appeal to what he thinks people want to hear, i.e: "No I don't think the person pushing my wagon is scum."

No, that's not correct. In fact, I wouldn't mind the OS lynch at all and have questioned his alignment several times. It's just that J is so obviously scum and the amount of SUBSTANCE against him surpasses all cases against any other players. Do you think it's coincidence that all the people who actually *read* it also agree with it? His lynch takes top priority; your only reasoning is that an arsonist would've caught the crumb, which is frankly BS [and even then is not an explanation for OS' play as pointed out above.

 

[CT Chia]

Doesn't matter if it's a waste of time, I'm still saying my thoughts

 

[CT Chia]

Yea but Gheb, if OS is arsonist compared to ScumJ you should want to kill OS first before he gets another prime

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

So I'm scum to you, Gheb?
Just making sure we're on the same page.

Anyway, one of the two of you going is exceedingly constructive. Gheb/Glyph and OS/DH are both great-looking teams and there's potential in either direction. OS as arsonist looks terrific atm as well. I do not think you're both town, but your arguments and OS' tunneling are causing a rift anyway that needs to be addressed. That's not to say I shouldn't be held accountable when this all goes belly-up, p.s., but I don't think that's going to be an issue.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I hate replacing in.

OS your argument is actually really compelling, save for a few points that I feel are more null (like Gheb being more likely to kill FF N1.)

Yeah yeah I know its my fault for not reading well and not catching that the first time.


I'm not sure where I want to go from here now.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yea but Gheb, if OS is arsonist compared to ScumJ you should want to kill OS first before he gets another prime

But I don't think he is arsonist.

Also @ Nabe

I'd just like to add that you're trying to convince people that it's good to lynch the fire fighter because it'll lead to arOSnist. That's just one huge fallacy and I can't believe you think it's a good idea. Ignoring the fact that you'd lynch a townie in the process, you'd still not now if he actually *is* the arsonist. That could not only [most likely] end up with 2 dead townies [+ a townie killed @ night] but also a dead fire fighter and the arsonist *still* alive. You'd literally allow him to do as he please just for your theory to be proven wrong. That's not acceptable.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Gheb, I think you're mafia. The read on OS if you instead flip firefighter is just a bonus.

 

[CT Chia]

Has any townie ever acted like OS is now though? It's like he's thinking that if he just says it enough town will eventually give up and just go with it. And with the sheer amount of times he has said it, no townie can be that confident about, only a scum can with insight on how other players stand role wise in comparison to them.

 

[CT Chia]

Last post was directed to Glyph

@Gheb, if you don't think OS is an arson, who do you think is?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So I'm scum to you, Gheb?

You're high up on my scum list. Pointed that out before but still remains.

Anyway, one of the two of you going is exceedingly constructive. Gheb/Glyph and OS/DH are both great-looking teams and there's potential in either direction. OS as arsonist looks terrific atm as well. I do not think you're both town, but your arguments and OS' tunneling are causing a rift anyway that needs to be addressed. That's not to say I shouldn't be held accountable when this all goes belly-up, p.s., but I don't think that's going to be an issue.

Do you actually think this is the case because you're a concerned townie? If you have intentions to win this game for the town then I suggest you to look further than the obvious teams. DH is relatively new player and particularly easy to nudge or buddy with weak cases [plus he is known to jump null-tells] and Glyph - while he appears to be a smart player - doesn't have yet the experience to not be swayed by the wrong things [this can even happen to experienced players].

Drawing connections here ... is questionable and can not be taken at face value.

OS your argument is actually really compelling, save for a few points that I feel are more null (like Gheb being more likely to kill FF N1.)

No, it's not. Read my response and don't go all "AtE" like everybody else who ignored it but read the logic behind it. Most of his case is built on null and fake tells.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

So they are obvious teams, Gheb?
Anyway, re: DH, may or may not be valid. W.r.t. Glyph however, he's exhibiting the same behaviours as X1 prior to him.

Glyph, can I see a list of scumreads atm?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Gheb, if you don't think OS is an arson, who do you think is?

Nabe is a possibility. I had a scum read on him for a while but he doesn't really fit with the J / Mentos and maybe Swiss team I'm seeing. His opportunism also implies a WinCon that's different from both mafia and the town. I can also see mentos in this role for similar reasons.

But Nabe pointing out how obviously an arsonist should've picked up my crumb and naming the exact means to do so with his "Ctrl+f" comment is remarkable in that context and a possible slip.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

A possible slip lol. I can't imagine that people would not think to use Ctrl-F or similar to find obvious words like 'fire'.

I'm on fire right now with this case, IMO. <= Not a crumb

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So they are obvious teams, Gheb?

Only obvious to somebody who wants to make it seem so by any means possible.

The fact that OS / DH seems more noteworthy than OS / J to you looks a bit too selective for my liking, as OS has literally started by nudging J [by accusing me of bussing him, which is still an awful case jfyi] to clearing him by covering up his mess via attacking me.

That's something I'd consider an obvious connections. What you are talking about are superficial observations.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Gheb, did you not say previously that you wouldn't say who your indy picks were, or am I way off base?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

A possible slip lol. I can't imagine that people would not think to use Ctrl-F or similar to find obvious words like 'fire'.

I'm on fire right now with this case, IMO. <= Not a crumb

The slip part also referred to how you tried to point out the crumb as easy to find for the arsonist when virtually nobody actually took note of it. How come?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Hoped I could get away with being absent for another school day.

didn't work out that way...

Concerning Gheb's claim, there is an issue of proving it/declaring it fake. I could easily contradict my reports with other people's role if I were scum, however, AFAIK, there is no recognition of priming someone. The only way to really "prove" gheb's claims is if an arsonist dies/an ignition. Using this, someone experienced can maintain a firefighter claim for a while.

In addition, gheb, the fact that you try to wave off my attack as an OMGUS, and later that i'm just following OS (I've shown earlier to have disagreed with some of his points), and later again how I "Only have one person on my scumlist" (which is downright incorrect) makes it really hard to believe your town.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, did you not say previously that you wouldn't say who your indy picks were, or am I way off base?

If I said that [I doubt that I did though] then it was because I wasn't sure about it. Now that the arsonist/ fire fighter issue has caused some serious talk right in the open I'm getting more differentiated reads from people's reactions to it. Yours stands out the most to me.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

In addition, gheb, the fact that you try to wave off my attack as an OMGUS, and later that i'm just following OS (I've shown earlier to have disagreed with some of his points), and later again how I "Only have one person on my scumlist" (which is downright incorrect) makes it really hard to believe your town.

So once again, you attack me for attacking you. You continue to prove my point.

I'd also take this as an opportunity to remind Nabe of how the OS / DH connection is superficial when you can clearly see now how DH is simply too easy to influence.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Gheb, because I'm lazy, how is attacking a scummy attacker no content at all?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

You are really going to have to point out OS/J to me. (J didn't budge iirc, and still thinks I'm scum.) And then explain why you didn't pursue OS/J or even really mention it in any noteworthy way, despite you wanting to lynch J and OS pressuring you. Seems to me that should take a high precedence.

Do you actually think this is the case because you're a concerned townie? If you have intentions to win this game for the town then I suggest you to look further than the obvious teams.

Implies that to you, OS/DH and Gheb/Glyph are obvious teams.

Only obvious to somebody who wants to make it seem so by any means possible.

The fact that OS / DH seems more noteworthy than OS / J to you looks a bit too selective for my liking, as OS has literally started by nudging J [by accusing me of bussing him, which is still an awful case jfyi] to clearing him by covering up his mess via attacking me.

That's something I'd consider an obvious connections. What you are talking about are superficial observations.

IMO this explanation of the word is not the same as the way you used it. Before you said "if you're town, don't look for what's obvious". Now you say, "obvious as in making it seem obvious when it actually isn't and trying to frame me". You previously called my teampicks obvious, but now you use the new term 'superficial'. However, I think this goes against your prior meaning.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, because I'm lazy, how is attacking a scummy attacker no content at all?

Your lack of content comes with your lack of posts. You don't post a lot and when you do you typically don't tackle all issues at hand and only the most obvious ones without making new info and stances available. That's not lazy, that's just flat-out anti-town.

I'm scummy for attacking you, therefore it's OK to attack me because I'm scummy for attacking you? Circular logic.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

The slip part also referred to how you tried to point out the crumb as easy to find for the arsonist when virtually nobody actually took note of it. How come?

It's easy to find for anyone who was looking for it. i.e. an arsonist, which is how OS the arsonist would have found it. Method of finding: using his eyes to look for references to fire or firefighting, or water, and/or using Ctrl-F. The phrase 'fighting fire' is an obvious firefighter crumb in a game where you know there to be a firefighter, I'm sure you're not denying that.

I'd also take this as an opportunity to remind Nabe of how the OS / DH connection is superficial when you can clearly see now how DH is simply too easy to influence.

That's okay with me, since I'm content with your lynch toDay.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You are really going to have to point out OS/J to me.

Read. I just did it.

And then explain why you didn't pursue OS/J or even really mention it in any noteworthy way, despite you wanting to lynch J and OS pressuring you. Seems to me that should take a high precedence.

But I did point it out earlier. Are you even reading what I post?

Implies that to you, OS/DH and Gheb/Glyph are obvious teams.

Poor wording. They are obvious to those who are not the concerned townies [hence me posting it in its own paragraph) - therefore superficial.

IMO this explanation of the word is not the same as the way you used it. Before you said "if you're town, don't look for what's obvious". Now you say, "obvious as in making it seem obvious when it actually isn't and trying to frame me". You previously called my teampicks obvious, but now you use the new term 'superficial'. However, I think this goes against your prior meaning.

It goes against my prior wording. In my native language the word we use for "obvious" has another meaning to it that's more like "superficial". I could still claim them to be "obvious" and be still correct with it but I felt the need to correct it for better understanding.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It's easy to find for anyone who was looking for it. i.e. an arsonist, which is how OS the arsonist would have found it. Method of finding: using his eyes to look for references to fire or firefighting, or water, and/or using Ctrl-F. The phrase 'fighting fire' is an obvious firefighter crumb in a game where you know there to be a firefighter, I'm sure you're not denying that.

OK, I can see where you coming from. But then again you're always quick to put OS as arsonist as a fact very hastily. Again you use him as an example, even though we weren't even talking about him in this instance.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

This is getting silly. I'm arguing and arguing against non-reasons while J can just keep himself away from all discussion to begin with and watch while town ignores all the substance that shows how he's scum.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Except OS is who I'm consistently talking about when I refer to an arsonist.

Anyway, I reread and you didn't say you wouldn't say who was indy, it was that you had no idea.
Pretty much done with my mini-tunnel, I think we've covered everything.

DH, you've claimed what, a watcher? Scum should want to get rid of the arsonist, i.e. they shouldn't roleblock you toNight. Gheb should tell us who he'll be hosing toNight, and you should watch his target. If we do that, then I'm down for a J lynch.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Since you pointed out the benefits I don't see the problem claiming it. My plan was to hose Chibo toNight because his claim is verifiable later in the game and it'll be a strongest asset for the town to have him as a clear. If DH watches him then he will also be safe from a mafia kill, which makes him a pseudo-doc and he can also verify that I visit Chibo.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

one flaw.

Suppose I find gheb visiting chibo just confirms it as a pr. Gheb himself could easily be the arsonist.

The docing is something I can do without need of a plan.

 

[Overswarm]

I hate replacing in.

OS your argument is actually really compelling, save for a few points that I feel are more null (like Gheb being more likely to kill FF N1.)

Yeah yeah I know its my fault for not reading well and not catching that the first time.


I'm not sure where I want to go from here now.

WHOA WHOA WHOA.

What the ****.

You replace in on D2 and someone's at L-1 and you rally AGAINST that lynch and YOU DIDN'T READ THE PRIMARY POST AGAINST HIM?

Vote Gheb. Now.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Gheb arsonist wouldn't have claimed firefighter, and there would've been a CC from a real firefighter. You seeing Gheb as a visiting role confirms that Gheb is either firefighter or a targeting mafia PR.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Keyword: Mafia PR

Arsonist was just a bad example.

My watch still wouldn't prove him clear of anything.

 

[Overswarm]

Gheb is the play for toDay. There is no deviation from this.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Thank you.
Gheb, what do you think are the benefits of my plan?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The benefits are that we can double protect a player. The arsonist will not target him and kill attempts will be seen. I'm aware that it doesn't immediately confirm my power but unless Chibo claims that something happened to him in the night you'll see that I can't even harm him in any way.
Thus, the worst scenario [which at the same time is the most unlikely one] would be that you've completely shut down an anti-town power and gain control over it. And I'm just adding that because people still don't believe my claim for some reason. So even if you don't believe me you're still at a win / win situation especially if we finally get our act together and lynch J.

And if you think Chibo is a bad target I suggest to say so now and suggest somebody else.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

So they are obvious teams, Gheb?
Anyway, re: DH, may or may not be valid. W.r.t. Glyph however, he's exhibiting the same behaviours as X1 prior to him.

Glyph, can I see a list of scumreads atm?

I'm not liking Swiss's play thus far. During NBC, he took charge of town and essentially demanded that everyone follow his plan to victory (which it would have done).

Swiss never struck me as a person to make posts like

Blaaaaaaaaaaah bandwagon Unvote Vote Gheb. OS you owe me cakes and hugs. I dislike getting trolled into following someone else.

Could just be him not enjoying this game, I don't know. But I don't like it (especially when he was such a force for town in our last game)

DH I'm still not feeling great about after his "accidental" misspelling of his flavor. Seems like something you'd want to be sure of before you posted.

Zen is either laying low or busy irl.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Just in case of misunderstanding ... if you talk about the benefits from your post:

DH, you've claimed what, a watcher? Scum should want to get rid of the arsonist, i.e. they shouldn't roleblock you toNight. Gheb should tell us who he'll be hosing toNight, and you should watch his target. If we do that, then I'm down for a J lynch.

The benefit is that there is no risk involved in the plan for DH or the player we choose to target. Since you covered all options the mafia could have to "fake out" this plan or have it backfire somehow.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Gheb I haven't read anything but this page and some of the last (40ppp), but what? So he's anti-town, but its no big deal to you?

OS I am starting to see why you are saying he is the play for today.

Glyph, what did you mean by the bolded?