Mafia Royal Sleepover - The Party has been Crashed! Mafia Wins!

[#HBC | J]

Another thing, when did I arbitrarily place you in my scum pool are stated anywhere that I thought you were scum?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Except

1.) I have clearly specified that I wasn't sure about it. You could've simply showed me the post and get it over with. Good to know what such a simple question can draw such a harsh reaction from you though.

2.) That "one" post? In my post [in response to Zen] I've linked 5 posts and further elaborated in my next post after that. If you expect your one post on Nabe to be enough to convince us that it's not a bus then I don't see how 5 in-depth posts [non of them taken out of context] aren't good enough. Never mind the fact that you haven't responded to it still.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Another thing, when did I arbitrarily place you in my scum pool are stated anywhere that I thought you were scum?

Misread on my part.

 

[#HBC | J]

So the only reason you find me scum is due to why I have both a town read on Zen and Chibo? (your major kick-off)

I'll get to Nabe more when I can.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

No, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Overswarm]

You know what's funny?



Overswarm is deliberately lying. Lynch all liars? I say no but by your infallible logic you should lead a lynch against yourself asap.
Now that I pointed out your phony and obvious double-standards [which everybody else seemed to miss, sadly - are you even reading, guys?] can we finally agree to ignore Overswarm until a cop determines if he's scum or just dumb [heavily leaning the latter; townOverswarm plays scummy a lot].

An awake-state addendum to my posts from yesterday if you like. Gonna read through the latest posts though.

Now that doesn't sound like a very townie thing to do.

 

[X1-12]

Gheb, if you want me to post you don't need to really weakly imply that my lurking is scummy. Just ask.

I hate reading long posts, and long posts by OS even more so. I tuned out half way through OS' case. I will make myself read from there properly tonight.

Probably tonight atleast

 

[Xivii]

Now that doesn't sound like a very townie thing to do.

I agree with this. Still think Gheb is scum. But J is more scum.

 

[Overswarm]

Gheb's caught and is angry because he feels I didn't catch him in a logical way, hence is consistent emotional outbursts.

As a townie, has his actions made any sort of sense for toDay?

Gheb is the play for toDay.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Now that doesn't sound like a very townie thing to do.

Allowing you to lead this town right into failure is even less a townie thing to do. I merely choose the lesser evil here. Good to see that you turn everything you see against me now, no matter how little sense it makes.

Fun how you completely choose to skip the part that proves that you're a complete hypocrite too.

Gheb, if you want me to post you don't need to really weakly imply that my lurking is scummy. Just ask.

I think your lurking is scummy and the implication wasn't even weak but pretty blatant. My D1 read on your was overall pro-town but you're really not playing that way now and this has me reconsidering your alignment.

I agree with this. Still think Gheb is scum. But J is more scum.

 

[CT Chia]

OS, try responding to my post plz

 

[Overswarm]

Which post? The one where you say you don't want to read?

No. Read.


Gheb is the play for toDay.

Your use of AtE's is very telling, Gheb. I generally am able to get a rise out of people to make them panic, but you just complete drop any semblance of town play.

 

[CT Chia]

Which post? The one where you say you don't want to read?

No. Read.

OS, I read your massive 970 like twice, and while I basically get everything you're saying, can you also somewhat give a more concise version? I keep feeling like by the time I get to the bottom of it I forget the earlier stuff lol

After that I can give a more appropriate reply. I just want to make sure my mind isn't in the wrong place.

jesus christ OS really?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I only AtE'd over things that you were getting personal or very close to it. All responses have sound logic as a basis still, something you have not - and will not be able to [hence you not answering in the first place] - shown wrong.

Chibo you're waisting your time. He will not be able to form a solid argument out of his points because then it becomes blatantly obvious that there is no real substance behind it. And he'll never be able to change the fact that my response has proven him wrong in every single point - something he intentionally tries to downplay or avoid.

 

[Overswarm]

What have you proven wrong, Gheb?

You haven't "proven" anything. You've panicked and thrown out AtE all over the place, and have attacked everyone that votes for you.

I liked the giant sheep picture after Zen says he thinks you're scummy. Subtle, btw.

 

[Overswarm]

jesus christ OS really?

I'm not sure what you're asking me to do. If you can't comprehend words I can't really help you?

 

[Overswarm]

J, still waiting on your post.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wow Overswarm, you haven't read a single thing *facepalm*

Has anybody even read my response to OS wall? This is becoming a farce.

Can we please for the sake of this town just ignore him and let him play how own little game so he can be happy and the rest of us can focus on actually finding scum?

 

[CT Chia]

Your use of AtE's is very telling, Gheb.

His AtE feels more town than scum to me imo

 

[X1-12]

His AtE feels more town than scum to me imo

Do you not think GhebTown is above AtE?

 

[X1-12]

I mean he's a good enough player to not have to use it, if you get what I mean

 

[CT Chia]

Oh I completely agree, but the way OS is playing can make AtE happen from anyone

even I'm a little upset at my post 1053 lol

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Nabe: Bandwagoner and faulty reasoning. Why not show the class what you have to share regarding why this is similar to my B&F play. Die as well.

Have I wagoned in this game? Probably, it's been a while since D1. Could you demonstrate that? B+F point is addressed down below.

Alright, this is what I think a bus looks like [especially @ Zen].

Agreed, looks like a bus. If J flips scum, town can have my lynch.

Nabe, why is J suddenly a good lynch to you? Based on a meta-tell of a game which - as far as I can see - was pretty much screwed? Or because you realize that there's nobody to save your scumbuddy?

He's not a good lynch as far as I know. In fact, I'm not sure what the case against J is; if it was yesterDay then I guess it wasn't memorable, and I haven't seen anything toDay aside from his own actions.

I'm comfortable with his lynch, however, because he's being emotional, probably moreso than I've ever seen him, but in a way that seems like a natural progression from B+F when he secured a win, then claimed mafia and promptly gave the win to town instead when town shouldn't have been able to win. This is notable here in J's giving up, then flipping over and targeting me instead. While I think this depressive bit is a facet of J's personality in general, I wouldn't mind seeing if it's a scumtell for future reference. Which I'd get with his flip. It's worth noting though that J usually does find me scummy, and it's hard for me to personally tell if this recent push on me is opportunistic or just him being him.


@current events: OS is being more composed and is someone I'd rather have in the game over Gheb. That said, I'm wondering if anyone sees the same similarity in Gheb to townFF; X1 in particular since you were in B+F and saw the situation I'm talking about.

 

[Overswarm]

I found an entertaining way to reply while waiting for J's post.

(gova start writing yours, you are after J)

I don't even want to look at that or respond to that. That's just the dumbest, most braindead, misleading, idiotic, pathetic, most typical for you post that you could've made.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

"FF got killed so Gheb is scum".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Are you seriously going to argue that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

The fact that you already argue for what reason Frozen was killed [who said it has anything to do with being an outstanding player? It could've been his lack of connections among other things] shows that you have no idea and as usual you pretend to know things you don't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

You're only impressing yourself with that. You've been wrong so many times with meta data and embarrassing attempts to break games that one should think that you would've learned from it by now. I don't mind if you continue to be bad at this game but I do mind that you've shown no attempts for improvement whatsoever and talk as if you knew ****. It's no coincidence that games like Bioware were effectively won after you got killed because before that you were doing a good job ruining it. And that's what you're doing right now with awful reasoning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html

Argument by innuendo

No, I'm just trying to actually play this game instead of playing by the mechanics like a ******. Since when is asking for connections and leads shortly before the night phase "making spiderwebs that lead nowhere"? Not only are you completely wrong on this but you've also completely misconstrued the point because I'm not trying to solidify a point but I actually question it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem-tu-quoque.html

You confuse me with yourself, Overswarm. You're the one who makes fake spiderweb. I merely question the people I feel who do that.

Lie.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-spite.html

Who the **** are you arrogant douchebag to spread lies about what I love doing?

@mod, couldn't Gheb get modkilled for this? :B

Have fun and do not personally attack another player in an offensive manner.

Also,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I am one of the player who hates stuff like "I told you so"'s and I will almost always be after the people who only slightly show any such attitude. If you put words in my mouth then at least be correct about it or back it up, you hypocrite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

And the rest of that is just a conspiracy theory.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html

I haven't actually started to get a town read on Zen waaaaaaaaaaay later into the game around the time when the decision was between Chibo and Kuz. This is evident to anybody who reads the thread. If you make outrageous claims like that I've "deliberately protected" him then ****ing back it up and show in what way it is scummy before you make a point about it.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html

Cool story, bro.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html

And this is why you're a bad player. Because you have no willingness to compromise and stick to ******** principles that any experienced mafia player will tell you is not an absolute. There are numerous examples of lying having major pro-town outcomes. Why don't you ask mentos about Omni's fantastic lie in the original FFVII mafia that prevented the mafia from making a juicy NK all game. That's some of the smartest manipulation of a townie and it was a flat-out lie.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-novelty.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-common-practice.html

Somehow you managed to use both the "appeal to novelty" and "appeal to common practice" in the same paragraph. I found that amusing. "Experienced mafia players will tell you..." followed by a one time lie that Omni used that had good results... while ignoring the multitude of times that lying has cost town dearly (like in this very game! It wasn't just me voting for him, ya know) and the fact that the phrase "lynch all liars" is a standard mafia starting point.

You also put reading people and guessing on a same level which is just a flat-out insult to anybody who understands the concept of scumhunting.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html (by implying others are greater and they do something other than that)

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-emotion.html

I have lynched so much scum COMPLETELY on reads with no guessing in it whatsoever and I sure as hell not gonna take it if you call the way I pinned all scumbags in Pokemafia, your scumbuddy SRB in community and NUMEROUS other scumbags pure guessing.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html

Just because finding scum is a guessing game to you doesn't mean that it is for everybody else.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/personal-attack.html

Also you subtly try to justify your stance on Kuz [which is proven wrong] by emphasize this point again and use it against me.
Get over it: YOU WERE WRONG

This one you're just telling me I'm wrong, but aren't telling the truth.

Except that I never ****ing ever post fluff and I would've not made this post had Zen not particularly asked about it. And the first sentence is wrong on so many levels...

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html

You try to justify lynching kuz all day based on a completely unimportant matter, a "lie" as you blatantly exaggerated it and now you still try to act as if you saved the whole universe with your whole logic, while in actuality it simply became obvious that you haven't done **** for the town so far.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

And then you are the one to call me out for using shallow reasoning? That alone is a capital, regal joke but then you also question my reasoning for being suspect of DH? Because not only did he fail to make the correct claim but also did so in a very hastily manner without actually checking the vote count?

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-spite.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/poisoning-the-well.html

I'm pretty sure even DH himself would admit that based on that it's justified to be wary of his claim.

Speaking for others... -_-;;

More like, I just re-emphasized the one point I was right about since the beginning of this game [u jelly?]. Zen was - in terms of scumhunting - very much useless [no offense] as he's evidently been wrong on 2/3 of his suspects.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html [no offense]

Also why would I distance myself from him? I've announced at least time that Zen is a town-read for me so I'm doing quite the opposite of distancing myself from him. Good job not understanding ****.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/begging-the-question.html

A good player would've considered the how and the why at this point and not've seen this issue in black and white.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html

There's a difference between:

"Overswarm, your reasoning for voting Kuz is ********"

and

"I don't think we should lynch Kuz".

And if you're claiming that I have argued against kuz and his lynch then you're lying because I did not protest against him being in people's lynchpool but I questioned the reasons. Maybe that's why you think hunting scum is a guessing game.

This one's close to a straw man, but I'll let it slide since it is used as an example with a following paragraph explaining the purpose.

If I remember correctly, you were trying to get Chibo's mason partner to claim, no? Yeah, that's making info available for the mafia they shouldn't have at that point.

Chibo's partner claiming, prior to Chibo stating that they'd ahve "some other ability", would have done nothing. Chibo had claimed mason.

Since chibo had claimed mason, he was obviously in the masonry.

Killing Chibo would end the masonry, thus making a confirmed townie dead, and his mason a VT.

Had chibo's partner claimed and not had a power role (as Chibo later stated), the result would have been less than stellar for town, had Chibo claimed. See, if chibo's mason partner claimed and then Chibo said "that's right, s/he is my mason partner!", the moment one of them claimed we'd have TWO CONFIRMED TOWN PLAYERS.

Oh, and by the by? Frozen Flame lambasted you for saying this. Then you killed him.

[qoute]There's the bus![/QUOTE]

Oh, you're so smart.

No wait, you aren't.[/quote]

*sigh*

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

I'm not even adding "personal attack" on here for most of 'em, since this is mafia and they all relate to an argument in some way.

Had you actually re-read the game as you so braggily claimed you would've realized that I was probably the first player in the whole game to voice legitimate suspicion on him. So tell me again, how is what I do "bussing" and what X1 and Zen do scum hunting? [It's a rhetorical question; I know the answer - it's because you only see what you want to see].

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html



That started off fun and then got irritating. Really, I thought I'd be looking for really specific ones all throughout but it was mostly the same ones. As much as I hate to admit it, I probably made a few mistakes here or there, I haven't been studying logic and discourse in the past year and just kinda was winging it. Perhaps I got a few wrong, but I think I've got it about 90% right.


J posts, then Gova, then lynch Gheb.

 

[Overswarm]

Wow Overswarm, you haven't read a single thing *facepalm*

Presuming

Has anybody even read my response to OS wall? This is becoming a farce.

Can we please for the sake of this town just ignore him and let him play how own little game so he can be happy and the rest of us can focus on actually finding scum?

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html


I wish you had reworded it a bit so I could have posted "http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-pity.html".

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I mean he's a good enough player to not have to use it, if you get what I mean

I didn't have to use it ... but you should be aware that you can cut out the parts you consider AtE in my post and still have perfectly logical answers to his points.

I choose to AtE him in cases where I feel like he's provoking me as a person, not as a player. Using AtE has nothing to do with how "good" a player is and I'd certainly not take it as an absolute scum tell from anybody. Just like you think I could've left out the AtE I feel like he should've left out a couple of remarks that serve no other purpose than to make me angry.

 

[Overswarm]

I didn't have to use it ... but you should be aware that you can cut out the parts you consider AtE in my post and still have perfectly logical answers to his points.

I choose to AtE him in cases where I feel like he's provoking me as a person, not as a player. Using AtE has nothing to do with how "good" a player is and I'd certainly not take it as an absolute scum tell from anybody. Just like you think I could've left out the AtE I feel like he should've left out a couple of remarks that serve no other purpose than to make me angry.

*looks up*

Well you wouldn't have much of a post if we removed the AtE, now would we?


You're really at a loss as to how to respond, aren't you? I'm guessing you didn't see this coming.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That wasn't entertaining ... you just - AGAIN - took the quotes out of context and selectively ignored important parts. You're really at a loss as to how to keep this nonsense up, aren't you? I'm guessing you're running out of ideas.

 

[CT Chia]

This OS Gheb mess has gotten so out of hand I don't really want to lynch either of them really. I think both need to chill and re-assess the cases tomorrow calmly.

 

[Overswarm]

That wasn't entertaining ... you just - AGAIN - took the quotes out of context and selectively ignored important parts. You're really at a loss as to how to keep this nonsense up, aren't you? I'm guessing you're running out of ideas.

I don't think you know what "out of context" means.

If you write

Who the **** are you arrogant douchebag to spread lies about what I love doing?

in a giant post, clipping that out and saying "that's an ad hominem and personal attack" isn't "out of context".

Out of context would you be quoting this post and saying that I said "Gheb you're an arrogant douchebag that spreads lies about what I love doing", because the context changes the meaning.

My quote snippets (which, by the way, have their entire context in the post both before and after them in their entirety) don't change the meaning of what you're saying at all.


But please, do tell me how they are out of context.

Also Gheb, what are your opinions on J and Gova?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Having trouble deciding if Gheb is fed-up or legitimately has nothing to say. My D1 read on OS is town and I'm going to stick to it. Can they both be town? Someone else please comment.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

This OS Gheb mess has gotten so out of hand I don't really want to lynch either of them really. I think both need to chill and re-assess the cases tomorrow calmly.

What are you talking about? My case is on J - OS is just pissing on my leg but he's not a play toDay or anytime soon. ScumOS wouldn't start an open confrontation with townGheb like that but just NK me like he did in Community.

Overswarm, my thoughts on J are clear. Why do you need to ask that? Actually, since when do you care about my opinion at all? You'll probably play the "trap" card after this but if it helps you, I think Gova is town.

 

[Overswarm]

No. Gheb is scum. Overswarm is right and awesome.

 

[Overswarm]

Alright cool.

According to Gheb, J would = scum and Gova would = town

Gheb

Why do you think Gova is town? :B

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Having trouble deciding if Gheb is fed-up or legitimately has nothing to say. My D1 read on OS is town and I'm going to stick to it. Can they both be town? Someone else please comment.

I am fed up, right.

But "legitimately nothing to say"? Please for the love of God, read my responses closely and then OS reactions and tell me how I can NOT be fed up at this point? I'm not the one who's being unconstructive on purpose.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why I think Gova is town? I can go into detail if you really want me to but you should also explain to me that good it will do the town if you know? From my POV, I'd be handing too much of the game to you that way in case you're scum.

 

[Overswarm]

Why I think Gova is town? I can go into detail if you really want me to but you should also explain to me that good it will do the town if you know? From my POV, I'd be handing too much of the game to you that way in case you're scum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

If you're going to imply it is up to ME to prove YOUR town reads are something we should know about, you're not even trying to pretend to be town.

Your reads. Post them. Or post your role PM and modkill yourself to save us the trouble of lynching you toDay, as this would result in the day continuing.

 

[Overswarm]

*shakes head*

I responded to that as if it were a legitimate post.

OS: "What do you think of gova"
Gheb: "I think gova is town."
OS: "Why do you think Gova is town"
Gheb: "I can go into detail if you want..."

ಠ_ಠ

 

[mentosman8]

Dear god. What did I just read? Did you really respond to an entire post by quoting a couple of Wikipedia articles OS? After making a case that was way oversized and really not all that strong, you respond to the defense without actually responding to a single thing? Gah

 

[Overswarm]

Dear god. What did I just read? Did you really respond to an entire post by quoting a couple of Wikipedia articles OS? After making a case that was way oversized and really not all that strong, you respond to the defense without actually responding to a single thing? Gah

He didn't have anything to respond to save for a small portion, which I did. The rest were just a series of logical fallacies.