Madison WI Smashfests!

[exarch]

As for stuck up melee players: obviously people are different online than in person. I think a lot of the hate brawl gets due to the number of players who really care about melee, and feel threatened by brawl. Basically there is little hope for melee; we've got no place to really look for new players, and others are always retiring. Brawl is in its infancy. Jealousy is definitely a factor. So those are some large motivating factors when someone says "Brawl sucks." We've got our reasons and most of us don't really despise it that strongly, but it's an effective catchphrase to show that we're still playing to try to keep Melee alive.

Otherwise Quaz and Oro have pretty much nailed how I would have responded to you.

--------------------------------------------------
Fun fest last night. Someone left a controller I think. I've still got your AV cord Ryan. Didn't find your wallet Jason, I'm assuming you have it. Erik your control has gotten a TON better over the past couple months.

 

[Quaz]

I dunno, I think constantly saying "brawl sucks" is just gonna make the brawl players hate melee even more. We gotta be respectable players.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I am not really sure anymore about brawl/melee. Unless you one remove skill bias from the game, then it is hard to compare them. At the level melee is at now, it is impossible for any lower tier character to do remotely well. Lessen up the skill level though, and it becomes possible. The balancing effect between combos and edgeguarding was removed in brawl and make it easier for any character to avoid punishment. This I think the main reason why it appears brawl is more balanced.

Marth and MK are the two best characters in brawl on paper. The range and priority should be enough to completely shutdown any character in the game, yet since they cannot edgeguard and combo, they constantly have be outranging and punishing the other character. When you have to do this every time for damage, it makes sense that marth or mk are going to mess up often, someone can punish them. Even when knocked away, people still recover against marth/mk. The number of scenarios that one has to play perfectly to beat out the other player all the time is many, and few brawl players have reached enough consistancy to accomplish this. When more players do, then brawl will be less balanced.

I am not saying melee does not have enough scenarios to always play in, but with combos, all it takes is one mistake to wreck a character while in brawl one has to wreck a character 30 times before someone dies. But I brawl is just as imbalanced as melee is when you start playing more consistantly.

Fest shoutouts:
Exarch: I am noticing against any character not named marth, shiek, fox, or falco, I am getting 2 stocked instead of 4 stocked. Those formentioned people are still giving me issues. I need to pay for pizza sometime since you keep giving me free rides all over madison.
Sync: You disapoint. We didn't play any singles against each other.
Sanchaz: I'll try coming over more often, but I wish you would give my your schedule on mon./wed./fri. Plus, I will figure out what you mean by mindgames that make no sense to me.
Mundunguu: Have we ever played against each other recently except random moments in doubles?

 

[exarch]

Yes but part of the problem brawl has is even though Marth and MK can't combo or edgeguard, the other characters can't either. So in brawl you have to get inside Marth/MK 30 times to take a stock, whereas in melee you only have to get in 3 or so, because then you can combooooooo. That means you must get through their advantage of priority and range many more times in brawl than you would in melee.

All I'm saying in this post, is there's definitely give and take. (That way I can keep it shorter.)

Mainly wanted to come in here and say, even though it's probably not necessary, no fest this week. I'll be in FL from Thursday-Tuesday next week, so I'll see y'all next Thursday.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I am not really sure anymore about brawl/melee. Unless you one remove skill bias from the game, then it is hard to compare them. At the level melee is at now, it is impossible for any lower tier character to do remotely well. Lessen up the skill level though, and it becomes possible. The balancing effect between combos and edgeguarding was removed in brawl and make it easier for any character to avoid punishment. This I think the main reason why it appears brawl is more balanced.

Marth and MK are the two best characters in brawl on paper. The range and priority should be enough to completely shutdown any character in the game, yet since they cannot edgeguard and combo, they constantly have be outranging and punishing the other character. When you have to do this every time for damage, it makes sense that marth or mk are going to mess up often, someone can punish them. Even when knocked away, people still recover against marth/mk. The number of scenarios that one has to play perfectly to beat out the other player all the time is many, and few brawl players have reached enough consistancy to accomplish this. When more players do, then brawl will be less balanced.

I am not saying melee does not have enough scenarios to always play in, but with combos, all it takes is one mistake to wreck a character while in brawl one has to wreck a character 30 times before someone dies. But I brawl is just as imbalanced as melee is when you start playing more consistantly.

Fest shoutouts:
Exarch: I am noticing against any character not named marth, shiek, fox, or falco, I am getting 2 stocked instead of 4 stocked. Those formentioned people are still giving me issues. I need to pay for pizza sometime since you keep giving me free rides all over madison.
Sync: You disapoint. We didn't play any singles against each other.
Sanchaz: I'll try coming over more often, but I wish you would give my your schedule on mon./wed./fri. Plus, I will figure out what you mean by mindgames that make no sense to me.
Mundunguu: Have we ever played against each other recently except random moments in doubles?

MK yes, Marth...that's kind of a stretch.

 

[sanchaz]

wow red ryu. exarch. and xeylode. good arguemets. read all of them.

melee is simple. its about knowing lag thats all. example. if i know that i cant grab falco after he comes to downair me, i ll rush at him and act like i,ll grab but wait for one of two things. roll towards me or spot dodge. then thats when i can seriously kill/punish falco grabing him from like 20%. if i couldn't predict lag and attempt my grab giving falco enough time to spot dodge. well. thats 0% to 56%ish.
its my play style not flippen reaction time.

mindgames??? take notes during the match. how many times they roll, how they recover, even where they tech! mathematically, a player has equal chance to tech 4 places. however if u notice a player likes to tech toward the stage when almost offstage, punish them next time.

does this make any sense? like seriously. i think just as hard when playing chess

btw fox is the best character in the game. i seriously think fox should be banned, not flippen jigglypuff
enjoy thxgiving!!!

 

[Oro?!]

You say lag, I say it's all about movement.

 

[KenniSpam!]

Lag is the future of the brawl metagame.

 

[Oro?!]

I would play Brawl Sheik if
1) aerial needles didn't have ******** levels of land lag,
and
2) she had at least one reliable kill move

 

[KenniSpam!]

I would play Brawl Sheik if
1) aerial needles didn't have ******** levels of land lag,
and
2) she had at least one reliable kill move

1)wtf why are you using aerial needles lol
2)Dsmash to edgeguard is pretty reliable and most characters. If you can dacus, that works too.

If all else fails, down b. (<---see avatar)

 

[Quaz]

I gotta agree with Sanchaz that its not all reaction time for him. You always seem to be able to predict when my peach is open, which is pretty annoying just because I always thought I wasn't that easily open.

 

[Oro?!]

Aerial needles autocancel in Melee brah and combo into grabs/aerials from platforms.

I had ppl living from fresh D smash at like 160%+, upsmash is more reliable but they are both smash attacks... and not that good of smashes... I hate Zelda too. Probs pickin up ZSS instead. Bair/Uair/Fair/side B are all broken and you get free hits with them all dai.

 

[exarch]

lol ZSS doesn't have kill moves either.

@ Ryan I think you've mentioned this idea to me before. And I can tell from your playstyle you spend a lot of time waiting. But to me the game is mostly about priority and spacing. That's probably pretty apparent from my playstyle too.

The single most frustrating thing about brawl for me is that I don't know how to punish anything in it. I can predict spotdodges and airdodges and things like that because many brawl players have not learned that doing those things repetitively in bad situations is bad... But the number of frames of vulnerability on those things are very small compared to the vulnerability in melee. As such the risk associated with spotdodges and other defensive options is much smaller in melee (when it was already considerably less than the risks associated with defensive options in 64-- where even putting your shield up could lead to your shield breaking and getting crushed.)

And so having 3 frames of lag only at the end of a spotdodge demands prediction and punishment to be extremely accurate. And then if you do hit them, you can only do a very small 13% combo and characters die generally at higher percents. Many more powerful moves are MUCH too lengthy to punish many bad things on reaction, and so turn into sheer, blind luck. If you miss the punishment, the character you were attempting to punish can usually do something equally damaging to you on reaction, and therefore there is no real incentive to attempt to predict an opponent in brawl (or at least considerably less of one.) Add in the lack of mobility comparitive to melee, and the defensive options of brawl are annoyingly appealing to me.

Beyond all of this, I don't know when the three frames of lag are. So I never get the punishment. And it becomes extremely frustrating to lose to players who do nothing but spam defensive options. So that part of my distaste for it is because I'm not very good at it.

I also dislike, less so, that it has made things which I was truly good at in Melee so much easier for everyone else. Recovering and defense is a skill in melee. Knowing when to shield roll and spotdodge without getting punished, getting back onto the stage without getting killed, sweetspotting correctly, DIing properly, all of those were much more difficult in melee than in Brawl. I'm not incredibly good at the other things in melee, and so I'm generally frustrated that it made everyone good at things I had to work hard to be good at. But I think I could get over this... it's the lack of risk reward that kills my appetite most quickly for that game. (See above couple paragraphs.)

 

[Quaz]

This is why I think brawl is more of a casual game, it kinda makes the battlefield more even if you ask me (thats how sakurai wanted it to be). Can't really say this for sure though... the top players for brawl seem to be able to beat the less skilled players pretty easily.

I went to a pretty huge brawl tourney about 3 months ago in Ohio (thought I'd give it a chance and hang out with the IL brawl players since they're really chill anyhow). I was one of 8 people in my brawl pool and got a 7th seed. I beat 2 people (one of those people placed higher than me by winning more matches then I did). Everyone I lost to straight up beat me (a couple of them wrecked me). Top 3 made it out, and those same top 3 that DID make it out only got 33rd in the bracket. What does that tell you?

Perhaps it is just better defensive overall, but I felt I lost most of those matches because I just wasn't as good at spacing/positioning as they were. Plus I didn't really have much matchup knowledge or any of that.

 

[Oro?!]

Melee players get mad at Brawl because it isn't Melee, and vice-versa. Don't wanna argue it. Melee is better in a lot of aspects. Melee is deeper. Imo Melee is even more fun. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy Brawl though.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I wonder exarch, what goes through your head when you play me in brawl? I have 3 stocked your peach, and you have 2 or 3 stocked me back.

Anyone have any suggestions for the roy, shiek, fox, marth, and falco match-ups? Pretty much any character I can wing it because I use marth, he spaces everyone else. But these match-ups I play often, and still cannot figure it out. I still have issues with roy, but I think it might just be because I am playing exarch. I guess that match-up is crouch cancel roy and space my tipper to avoid his.

 

[Quaz]

for roy just do everything better than he does. try to avoid getting dtilted maybe? Exarch likes to use a little extra fsmash (because its so **** good) and marth's sheild can be garbage sometimes. So if I were you I'd try to avoid shielding it (if you do though, wavedash out of shield and grab him, it takes some timing and you gotta be fast but it can be done). Otherwise just dashdance grab a lot and just use your sword to outspace his. Remember to follow up on every grab you get.

 

[LightsOutAce]

If there's a smashfest this Thursday, I'll be able to go for sure.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Perfect. I just hope Exarch is still around. I have not seen him on here since the Thanksgiving break.

 

[Oro?!]

ZSS almost makes Brawl really fun... wtf...

 

[exarch]

Smashfest on Thursday.

Also... what's this white stuff falling from the sky?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Smashfest on Thursday.

Also... what's this white stuff falling from the sky?

Perfect timing for snow. It shows up in madison on the first day of december.

The most horrible timing is that I have my first enrollment period is at 6:45pm tomorrow... I do not want to miss out on smashfests, but I do not want to wait any longer to enroll either... Oh, what to do...

 

[LightsOutAce]

If you're a freshman and your classes aren't full already, they'll be fine for a few more hours. And I'm sure someone can let you on a computer for five minutes...

 

[eighteenspikes]

Thursday smashfests break my heart, I have occupational therapy for my wrist eeeevery thursday and now I need more physical therapy for my back now too, which will probably be every Thursday too can you have one of these on a weekend?

 

[Quaz]

I'd be more than happy to play in madison saturday night potentially.

 

[exarch]

Usually we do sat fests at matt's place. I've got no problem hosting one at my place though.

 

[Culvers]

I'm in tomorrow.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'll be coming tonight as well.

 

[Quaz]

wish I could go.

Would anyone be down to play on saturday though? =) whether it be in Mad town or at MAS or w/e

 

[sanchaz]

saturday sounds pretty good, maybe I can host a smashfest in the dorms, would that be cool with everyone?

 

[Culvers]

I'm in for a saturday fest, but of course I'd need transportation if it's off campus.

 

[LightsOutAce]

If it's on campus I can even bring a setup!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Would anyone be down to play on saturday though? =) whether it be in Mad town or at MAS or w/e

I'm in for a saturday fest, but of course I'd need transportation if it's off campus.

Basically what Culvers said.

maybe I can host a smashfest in the dorms, would that be cool with everyone?

I'm all for this. Has the idea of using ogg hall finally taken root after 2 months? lol

 

[exarch]

Ok I'm leaving work now. I'm planning to be at Chadbourne around 5:45. Don't be late! I should be a little early this time myself too.

 

[john!]

i'm coming, might be a few minutes late tho

 

[Mundungu]

I'm going to be out of town this weekend. I might be able to host next saturday.

 

[john!]

Actual photo of Umad Yesiammad:

 

[Vinodh]

Umad! How's it goin buddy?

 

[exarch]

tuhmarra
tuhmarra
i luv ya
tuhmarra
you're always a dayy uh-waaaaaaaayyyy

Who's coming Frank Erik Jason John Ryan Matt? Vino? lol! We might have a new smasher this week.

 

[Mundungu]

I'll be there pretty early tomorrow. What time do you usually start?