[m-1, 14, 28] avril lavigne mafia - over

[Overswarm]

Don't try to meta Xiivi, it won't end well. I personally wouldn't tell the gravedigger that they're a gravedigger either, but maybe Xiivi has a different idea in mind. (Some other hidden aspect of my role I don't know about maybe... who knows?)



The role claim was the important part. I'll name claim if you guys want me to though.


Like? Give examples please. You've been temporarily laid back in some (coasting somewhat through D1 in Wonderland mafia and RTS mafia), but you've always returned to your pressuring ways later on. That's what I want to see from you.


Oh yes you do need to give more info. Knowing reasons is huge in mafia. Let me give an example.

1) Player A and Player B are both on the wagon of Player X, and pushed it equally hard.
2) Player X is lynched despite a bad case and flips miller.
3) Player A claims cop and isn't CC'd. He explains that he had a guilty on Player X, which is why he pushed so hard.
4) Player B has no such reasoning, and makes some lame excuse about how Player X was really scummy.
5) Player B gets lynched for being a main proponent of a bad mislynch, and flips scum.
(Not the most perfect example ever, but it gets the point across)

Anyways, Tom, you've been around long enough to know people's meta. I want to know why you think Me, Macman, and Frozen are scum. Because I don't see your logic.

Oh, and one more thing. You said you wanted Kirbyoshi dead D1, but you never voted him. Why is that? I think it's because you wanted him lynched, but you didn't want to be on the mislynch.

vote Nich

I don't care if it's dumb or dumb, his lynch is fine with me.

Nich, nameclaim.

 

[Chaco]

i'm not misguided. there will be scum that is connected to the KYoshi lynch. this is highly probable. why would you not apply interactions regarding a flip especially when the interactions continued after he claimed Town Patriot? on a lynch that was practically destined to happen would scum lean off their vote and move over to Frozen (OS, Vander, etc.)? very unlikely.

Yes, I know this is true. It is very likely, I am saying you are misguided for attacking the person who spearheaded the lynch, and are attacking me solely for that. True, or not? Because previously you said you were fine with me. This is the only new development since then from you, and this is why I say it is misguided.

Why would I not apply the interactions? That's the reason I pressed the Kirb lynch, Omni, is because we can get reactions from his wagon. Concrete stances, reactions, and ties are all of the same matter, so you can easily tell I've stated this in my last posts.

I never said scum would wean off.

i'm not thickheaded when it comes to surveying the interactions around KYoshi and how everyone played on his wagon. i can see who is lazy, who isn't, who has a lot to say about the issue, who doesn't, who's sitting on a Kyoshi lynch, and who's still looking at others. there is a misguided approach to tunneling around a player's death, but to suggest that it isn't important to scope it is silly.

It actually seems like you are right now, and I never suggested it wasn't important quite the opposite actually.

what are these solidified stances? are you also suggesting that the Frozen wagon that was moving was wishy washy? im pretty sure the entire cast voting kyoshi mainly based on a single post that kbot posted. that's about it. the only other information you suggested we'd gain from this is proof that a recruiter is in the game which i agree is good confirmation.

Solidified stances can mean any number of things; a players vote on Kirb, or the thoughts on him that were drug out. An example would had he flipped scum, your stall on his lynch, would've pretty much pinged you as scum.

The Frozen wagon had less reasoning than the Kirb wagon honestly, as well as Frozen being inactive across the board. So I don't see the "coasting" as an issue.

Exactly, we know 100% know that a recruiter is in this game now. So we can measure players better regarding interactions. You like to do this, so what differences would you incorporate in your scumhunting to compensate the addition of a recruiter?

dont get me wrong. kyoshi did give us info and usually lynches in Day 1 can be compensated for info rather than scumminess since scumness doesn't shine too brightly early on. i just want to know everything that YOU got out of the Kyoshi lynch since it seems you were more focused on lynching him out of information rather than actual usefulness/scumminess

You'll see this shortly, I haven't had the time until now to really just sit down and type out a post.

you keep referring to this Frozen wagon as "sloppy". tell me, what made the wagon on kyoshi less sloppy? i'm pretty sure that i outlined you jumping on the Kbot wagon without a single explanation (only an agreement to marshEE's "omg hes so bad") post. there wasn't much substance to the Kbot wagon as i said earlier.

I was pretty sure my reasons were implied, that post was terrible and I didn't want to fight the usual inactive battle with Kirb. In addition to the confirmation of a recruiter, and not to be mean, but he's rarely of use when he plays like that. I get nothing from him, so there's another addition to the reason of his lynch:

The prevention of endgame coasting and stupidity.

the actual act of lynching kyoshi was not anti-town, Chaco. however, the process of lynching kyoshi andow players acted/re hacted/didn'tact can essentially show us a few things. those are the things that i pointed out above. unfortunately for you you're on the receiving end of my "igmeou list" based on how the kyoshi wagon was formed.

I realize this, and have pointed it out a few times. But I feel it is mainly because I spearheaded the lynch, and not as much as the reasoning since everyone voted for that reasoning.

do me a favor and answer the questions i just asked in this post. then since you think i am misguided i'd like you to examine my analysis on the other players not including yourself and tell me if why you believe my observations are also misguided.

Done, and I think your content on MK is okay because it was pretty much a my *** or his thing.

More to come later or tomorrow.

 

[Xivii]

I don't think Nich knows how to do anything besides metagame. Still, I don't see much scumminess from him.

I agree with OS on Vander, he has been reactionary through out this game. And he hasn't really taken any solid stances.

@Omni: I wouldn't mind Frozen being lynched based on everything up to this point, but I still would really like to hear more from him especially #3 three on his D2 to do list.

 

[vanderzant]

Sup guys, it's my birthday today, so I haven't been around but I'll comment on stuff before I go to sleep.

 

[vanderzant]

frozen dead based on whom i feel to be scummy
mac to be dead based on whom i feel to be completely useless and a high recruit candidate
you (zensei) to be dead based on your ******** active lurking in this thread.

Agree that frozen can be lynched toDay...but Mac being a high recruit candidate? That's sort of, random to say the least. Considering many people see him as a decent lynch candidate toDay (and yesterDay), but fair enough (it's already been discussed).

i am still up to lynch macman or frozenflame.

or nicholas.

or maybe vanderzant. or maybe chaco.

Lot of maybe's their Tom, are you just not that into the game, or are you finding it hard to read people? I like your suspects though (except me).

I would rather lynch Nichover Frozen or Nich, but Vander over Frozen as well.
Vander's whole "Huh, thought there would be more deaths!" came off as fake to me. However, I can't help but feel that Nich is being fake all over the place. When he claimed, there wasn't all that much pressure on him. Was this Nich's defense mechanism, I wonder. I feel like he hadn't read the game enough to know that he wasn't being pressured heavily, or heavily enough for a claim. And the claim is.....urgh. Kinda safe, but then again, perfect for a Mafia player. Sorta like Xiivi's claim in Scum Wars.
Vander and Nich can go today. Either is fine with me.
I just don't see Frozen as scummy. When Frozen is scum, he isn't this aggressive. When he was my scum partner in Scum Wars, he'd play how Nich is playing right now, the "IDK what my suspicions are, I'll tell you later" "Oh, it's later? I haven't really, errr, Idk really" sort of play. Frozen is being too agressive for me to believe he is scum

Huh, ok. "You too" then.

With regards to Nich, he said that he thinks a miller/digger should claim immediately. Do you disagree with that reasoning? Or do you think he claimed because he thought (or anticipated) that he would be pressured.

It bugs me a little bit that you think Frozen isn't scum based on his aggressiveness. I agree that emotion isn't a scummy thing, but it isn't something to excuse the level of activity he's shown.

Looked back through a little of the game, and here's some basic impressions...

Zensei reminds me of two players. Swordancer-town from Tree stump, and Mr. Eric-scum from Newbie mafia 3. Regardless, I need to see more from him. Wouldn't be upset with lynching him today.

Frozen needs to follow up. Still think he's town though.

Tom needs to do more. This is not the Tom-town I remember. He's not doing much in the way of asking questions, making cases, illustrating why player X isn't scum, just a short list of who can die and that's about it from him. Oh, and for the record, in my game I did NOT tell the gravedigger (already flipped, so I'm not giving anything away here) that he was a gravedigger. Still though, obviously Steel told me. Not ready to lynch Tom yet, but I'm ready to wagon him. Vote: Tom until he gives us more info. (Go ahead, call my vote Oh-my-gosh-you-suck, I really don't care.)

Omni I'm backing off of for now. I've been liking him more given how he defended kirbyoshi (his thoughts lined up with my own there), and his D2 stuff has been good.

Vanderzant I'm not sure about. He's been a bit less active then I saw him as town, but he wasn't on the kirbyoshi lynch (although he would have hammered if necessary), so some town-points for that.

Macman is Macman. I mean, this is really just the town-play I've seen from him. However, I haven't seen him as scum (not that I remember).

@Meta-kirby
You fail. First off, I gave my reasons for claiming shortly after doing so (if I get tracked, it could cause an early claim+mislynch, super bad for town), plus, Xiivi was TOWN in Scum wars! Yeah, I've been slacking off on my reread, but that's a lazy-null-tell. I try to avoid rereads as much as possible. However, I do agree with you on Frozen.

Dislike you wagoning Tom for being inactive, when there's a perfectly fine frozen wagon.

Do you think Zensei coasts as scum?

What game are you basing my meta off (assuming the Marathon, but just checking anyway I don't recall if we've played any other games together).

Essentially what you did, Omni, was what I had meant. You take connections related to Kirb, such as interactions and thoughts on him and apply them to your scumhunting. You're misguided, but that's besides the point since you didn't ask me to address that.

Continuing on, what we gained from Kirby's lynch:

-Solidified stances on D1 and not the wishy washy bull**** of a thrown together wagon. This one built up and had atleast, iirc, a week behind it.
-Proof that a recruiter of some sort is in this game, whether indy or mafia is still tbd.

I believe this is much more information than we would have got out of an inactive lynch,agree or disgaree, Omni?

Uh, disagree a bit. Frozen was just as good a lynch. Kirby was lynched (as has been said) for 1 post + slight inactivity (which KY changed a bit once Clownbot left) + to check the role (which, while useful, I don't think many people doubted the claim THAT much).

Kirby seemed like the typical 'easy' lynch. No one was strongly opposed to it, yet there were semi-mixed opinions about other inactives. So while I'm not sure if I'm on topic to your post here, but KY wasn't "the best" lynch.

I feel I need to hit your points on why I was scummy from that wagon. The details you have outlined only occurred at the end of the day when another wagon was trying to be thrown together sloppily. So, what play would you think was in town's best interest, Omni? Lynching a random in the last day of the Day, or lynching a person who was scummy enough to be considered the lynch of the day midway, and also confirms the existence of an antitown role? I believe you know it was the correct play, but you're just trying to find something to attack on currently. So you saw my push on Kirb, and decided to plaster some guilt there. However, this is easily cast aside because the logic behind lynching Kirb is sound.

Anything further?

Are you implying you didn't like the wagon frozen yesterDay? What about toDay. What's your opinion of him (refresh my memory if you've already said it).

Vanderzant, play more and stop being reactionary.

Am trying.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@vand
Go back and look through some of Frozen's games. Lately he's been having a HUGE stretch of inactivity, where he has about a 90% chance of lurking through any given game. So Frozen's inactivity doesn't really bother me. Tom's inactivity on the other hand, does.

@Overswarm
So, you just call my argument dumb without giving a single reason why, and try to push my lynch for it? You know, dumb town is still town.

@Zensei
Metagame is a big part of my strategy until I've got some good connections to push. Check what I did in DBZ. I meta'd through D1, and then during the rest of the game, I used everyone's connections to the yak (who died N1) to push my scumhunting for the rest of the game.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Oh, by the way, does anyone have any objection to me nameclaiming? If not, I'll go ahead and do it tomorrow.

 

[Overswarm]

@Overswarm
So, you just call my argument dumb without giving a single reason why, and try to push my lynch for it? You know, dumb town is still town.

Dumb town is dead weight, and has just the same odds of being scum. Moreso in a recruitment game.

 

[Overswarm]

Oh, by the way, does anyone have any objection to me nameclaiming? If not, I'll go ahead and do it tomorrow.

Why are you stalling?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Dumb town is dead weight, and has just the same odds of being scum. Moreso in a recruitment game.

Nope. Actually, bad players have LESS odds of being scum because they were LESS likely to be recruited. Although I'll grant that mathematically they have the same odds of being the recruiter. Besides, you didn't say dumb or scum, you said "dumb or dumb", which implies you think I'm dumb town, not scum but want to lynch me anyways.

And I'm "stalling" on the name-claim as you put it in case anyone has a good reason for me not to do it.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Vand
Oh yeah, my meta on you is from the marathon. It's told me that lurking is a scumtell for you, but you haven't exactly done that this game. (Besides, you recognized said problem with your playstyle after the second game, so it's possible you're fixing it.)

 

[Omni]

Nich, have you played with a confirmed town Vand?

 

[Omni]

Also, if anyone objected to your name claiming they would have done so by now.

Go for it.

 

[Steel]

Vote Count 16

Frozenflame (2) - Vanderzant, Omni
Vanderzant (1) - MarshEE
Nicholas1024 (1) - Overswarm
Tom (1) - Nicholas1024
Not Voting (6) - ZenSei, Tom, Macman, Frozenflame, Meta-Kirby, Zensei

With 11 Alive, It Takes A Vote Of 6 To Lynch!

Deadline is Friday, August 6th at 11:59:59 PM EST.

 

[Tom]

nich, you stated that frozen has recently been inactive so its ok for him, but its not ok for me? i havent recently been inactive? lawl

 

[The Angry Mafia Game Nerd]

van ill take my vote off of you today. happy birthday

nick didnt answer my questions from forever ago plus this is some of the worst metagaming ive ever had the misfortune of witnessing

vote nick

 

[Nicholas1024]

Unvote

@marshy
I'll get to your questions in a bit, but to explain, I didn't really have any solid scum reads, so I decided to throw a little pressure Tom's way to see how he'd react.

@Tom
I still want your reasons on who's scum. Knowing who you find scum is nice, but knowing the reasons for your actions is even nicer.

 

[Omni]

Don't ignore my question, Nich.

Why aren't you name claiming?

 

[Overswarm]

Don't ignore my question, Nich.

Why aren't you name claiming?

Because he's Stalin.



BAM. That's right, russian puns until he name claims.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Because, I said I'm going to name-claim tomorrow if there's no objection, and that's when I'll do it. (So basically, because I'm stubborn. Sorry.)

 

[Overswarm]

vote Nicholas1024

 

[Omni]

I'm talking about my question regarding Van. See above.

Also, claim immediately lest you look like flailing scum waiting to discuss a proper name claim with his scum buddies.

 

[Overswarm]

If he waits til tomorrow he could claim Jesus and I'd still want to lynch him on principle.

 

[Nicholas1024]

vote Nicholas1024

You are already voting me, OS. Trying to up your postcount? And besides, you already want to lynch me, remember? I have a question for you. Do you think I'm scum?

@Omni
I have played with a confirmed town Vand before. Marathon mafia D2, if you've forgotten. (I know you weren't in it, but you followed it.)

And no, I will not nameclaim now, just in case someone comes up with a good reason for me not to do so. Besides, if Xiivi designed this game (as Tom claimed), wouldn't he have thought to give scum safeclaims? He's an experienced mod.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Hey Marshy, will you please quote the questions in particular that you want me to answer? Thanks.

 

[Omni]

So claim now.

We don't know if scum has safe nameclaims. If you claim now, flip non-townie in the future, and have a CC then that verifies that. You already role claimed; no one has objections to you name claiming. You're just making yourself look suspicious by not name claiming.

Stop being stubborn. Your play is really distracting seeing as that I know you're not the play toDay.

 

[Omni]

Waiting a Day is stalling. If anyone had any reason against you doing do I'm sure they would have said so.

So if you're not waiting for us then you're waiting for someone else.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Alright Omni, I suppose that's fair enough. My role name is frozenflame.

 

[Overswarm]

What's your song, Nich?

 

[Nicholas1024]

It was "don't tell me".

 

[Chaco]

Vand, I've already said Frozen is inactive across the board. I know this because I'm modding a game he's in, so yeah, I see him as a non-issue right now. He'll either be replaced soon enough or come back and post. Try to scumhunt actually, and not nitpick inactives.

There's a distinct difference in the types of Kirb and Frozen when talking about inactivity, Kirb's is always long drawn out and convenient. Where as Frozen is actually busy, and I know he works obscure hours. So yeah, plus I know his scum meta a lot more than most because, gasp, I've been scum with Frozen. I don't see anything out of the ordinary.

The Kirb wagon was loads better considering we actually gained information! With Frozen we gained nothing but an inactive kill. So, scumhunt, Vand. This is the reason you were middleground before, because you pretty much just sit there and attack what others already have.

 

[Overswarm]

It was "don't tell me".

Is this why you wouldn't give up your nameclaim to us?

 

[Chaco]

is this why you wouldn't give up your nameclaim to us?

lol.

+1 o s

 

[Chaco]

Also, give me until later tonight and I should have an indepth post.

 

[Omni]

OS, you've been posting a bunch of fluff lately.

Do you think Nich is scummy? Yes or no and why not? If not, then who and why?

 

[Overswarm]

OS, you've been posting a bunch of fluff lately.

Do you think Nich is scummy? Yes or no and why not? If not, then who and why?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10824224&postcount=600

 

[Tom]

I decided to throw a little pressure Tom's way to see how he'd react.

fat lot of good that did you LOL

 

[Omni]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10824224&postcount=600

That doesn't answer if you think he scummy; just that you don't like him. And it doesn't say why you think he is scummy if you think that is the case.

I don't like Nich's play at all, but he's definitely not the play toDay.

Stop being lazy. Completely opposite of your yesterDay play. Did you get recruited?

 

[Overswarm]

No. Again, if I'm scum I like to manipulate people, not sit around.

I just don't have much to go off of today and am waiting for more information because this is lameeeee.

If you want me to orchestrate another post-frenzy I can, but those take a lot of work and I don't want to do it two days in a row. -_-;;

 

[Omni]

I just want to know why you think Nich is scummy. I don't need a PBPA for that kind of answer. Just be brief.

Also, exposing your own meta like that does is completely wifom. Just leave it out.