Luigi Mains Guide to #1

[HyL!]

i'm sorry, but you're* ._.

 

[makoforce]

he's the new me. LMAO

 

[Be@st]

i'm sorry, but you're* ._.

lol thanks

 

[Dre89]

there's always a better option for punishing than side b <_>

Yeah I know what you mean, but most of the time I use cyclone in that manner, I'm too far away to hit with anything else.

But I'm not a good player, so I'm not suggesting that it's a good strategy or anything.

 

[Krystedez]

He used foward B just fine on marth the first time during that 40-50 second part of the video. Second time was not useful, and he could have gotten back up on the ledge instead of trying to be mister ledgeguarder... lol

Foward B is very useful, especially since it's unexpected. If you never EVER get hit by UP B, like I don't (usually), then Foward B is a potential option. Condition the opponent with uppercuts. One of two things will happen; they'll DI away from the setups for an upper cut, or not get hit at all. When they're used to this, and if you're not hitting them, then go for the Foward B as a folllow up to your normal uppercut setups (since they DI away, you can confuse them when you end a potential jab-> follow up or whatever else, into a foward B (they'll usually mistime the spotdodge thinking you're gunna uppercut or something)

That's my look at it.

Also, the whole BS about it being 1/8th, ew, it's luck, don't use it; NO. It's not luck. Luck is some random generated number amongst numbers or some !@#$ like the new G&W hammer. Chance and probability are not luck. Luck is a double misfire ( as in what someone stated earlier; accidentally hitting a misfire that you didn't even mean to use Foward B in the first place.)

At least, if it IS 1/8th a chance, that's one out of 8 chances of it getting a hit. Think of Wario's waft. It charges up completely after 1 minute. This is a totally different scenario, but bare with me. That's 8 times I could be using waft during the match. If luigi used Foward B once every minute (that he could find a punishable move where the opponent IS going to get hit), then that's a free chance at getting a free kill.

Whereas, if you're trying to set up for UP B, that REQUIRES set ups. You can't punish with UP B unless you're right on top of your opponent when he messed up. WithFoward B, if they mess up, then you basically have a quick KO chance at what, 60? And you're not even close to them (You can't react that quick in your lag)

Also, the thread is basically advice in general, not based entirely on the subject at hand currently. Don't take this whole useful thread as being about misfire.

 

[Dre89]

He used foward B just fine on marth the first time during that 40-50 second part of the video. Second time was not useful, and he could have gotten back up on the ledge instead of trying to be mister ledgeguarder... lol

Foward B is very useful, especially since it's unexpected. If you never EVER get hit by UP B, like I don't (usually), then Foward B is a potential option. Condition the opponent with uppercuts. One of two things will happen; they'll DI away from the setups for an upper cut, or not get hit at all. When they're used to this, and if you're not hitting them, then go for the Foward B as a folllow up to your normal uppercut setups (since they DI away, you can confuse them when you end a potential jab-> follow up or whatever else, into a foward B (they'll usually mistime the spotdodge thinking you're gunna uppercut or something)

Do you have footage, or some other evidence of this strategy being useful in tourneys?

The risk doesn't seem anywhere near worth the reward. Normally, when you''re conditioning your opponent, you get punished, but it's worth it, because you've conditioned them into a tactic that you can punish with an early KO.

In your scenario, it's the other way around. You're using your early KO tactic (upb) as a conditioner, which is hugely punishable, so you will be eating a ton of damage during the conditioning process, all for what- most likely a weak missile which won't KO, and is punishable it self on whiff? What's the point of that?

If anything, you should be using moves to condition upb set-ups. For example a possible one could be that when they're in KO percent, just start standing still, or foxtrotting near them. They'll probably assume that you're trying to read a dodge for an upb. This means they're probably more likely to throw out attacks, which you can then powershield-upb. Not sure how legitimate that is as a tactic, but I was just using it to make a point.

 

[Krystedez]

Do you have footage, or some other evidence of this strategy being useful in tourneys?

If I did, I would have posted it. Doesn't mean you (as in anyone in general, not calling you out)can't try it or practice it in friendlies, ranked matches on AiB, MM's, tourney brackets, "seriouslies", or whatever.

The risk doesn't seem anywhere near worth the reward. Normally, when you''re conditioning your opponent, you get punished, but it's worth it, because you've conditioned them into a tactic that you can punish with an early KO.

I'd go for the forward B at the 60+ range until they're like 80 and then I have both options. But the percent I AM at is what matters in the usage of the missile.

The problem with that, is, the move is still reliably safe move compared to uppercut in certain situations. If you use uppercut while you are at about 80 percent, and miss it, you could very well die from this mistake, not just get punished.

For missile, if you miss it or hit their shield, you might get a punish move that won't be charged or anything, and you'll live. (don't count fart or other instant kills like Game and Watch hammer.) This is, again, at around 80 percent. Quick Dsmash from MK? Brush it off. Forward smash from Ike? I believe you can shield it at least after hitting his shield with missle (not sure if PS'd...)

In your scenario, it's the other way around. You're using your early KO tactic (upb) as a conditioner, which is hugely punishable, so you will be eating a ton of damage during the conditioning process, all for what- most likely a weak missile which won't KO, and is punishable it self on whiff? What's the point of that?

Using upper cut early is not going to hurt you nearly as bad as using it later when your percent is up, is what I was saying. By conditioning, I don't mean to use it like 10 times or something ********.

You'd use it like... once per minute when you THINK you can get a kill or just some good damage, and if you miss or hit, you grab the ledge or take the hit. This conditioning is only needed once or twice, and the opponent thinks you're main objective is going for the uppercut. When they get that mindset, it's over, there is no way they're going to expect the missle if you use it at the moment they expect an uppercut.

If anything, you should be using moves to condition upb set-ups. For example a possible one could be that when they're in KO percent, just start standing still, or foxtrotting near them. They'll probably assume that you're trying to read a dodge for an upb. This means they're probably more likely to throw out attacks, which you can then powershield-upb. Not sure how legitimate that is as a tactic, but I was just using it to make a point.

Okay, one, your example is not "using moves to condition upb set-ups". All you're saying is mind games. For me, I can fox-trot back and forth and power shield to fart with wario, doesn't mean it's a conditioning tactic, nor very reliable. What you're saying is just simple tech and mind-game skill.

Here's the problem: Luigi doesn't have reliable set ups against the most commonly used characters in today's game. You can't put all your faith into set ups for one move. In fact, the pros and cons to both moves are so entirely different that it makes sense to use forward B to mix it up, and get a chance at a quick kill rather than having to wait for their mistakes during your setups.

My point was, Forward B doesn't require near as much setting up as Uppercut does.

 

[Dre89]

Just to let you know, the second quote box where you quoted me, you put one of your own sentences in the quote box, so it looks like I said it lol.

 

[Krystedez]

my bad it's late.

You see my drift thought right. I am still interested in the move far as testing phases go, not entirely reccomend people fall head first into this strat/move, because even I know that its legitimacy isnt out there yet. Hopefully it will be.

 

[DE_Desti]

Personally, i think that luigi is a character who needs a **** good mindgameset and playercapacity to read the enemy, when you didn't able to do this, don't play luigi.

He's a character, who is pretty difficult to play because his punish option are difficult too, without powershielding, you won't be able to punish. Fireball is a lame projectil, it's sucks and because of that you should just use it when you are in a middlegood distance from your openent.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Ok, so i was playing a match today. And with all the talk about miss-fires, i started to use the move often. I found myself only finding an opening when they were recovering, and i did get a few kills this way. Also I canceled a green-missile O.o

It is extremely specific and has almost no real use, but just for fun I will let you guys know about it, incase anyone can further develop it.

I was on the second transformation on Castle Siege, I was on the side platform on the top.

Picture for reference (sorry its blurry)

I was standing right about where P1 is, maybe lower. I did a green-missile charged it a bit, aiming to the left, then when i let go, luigi's head hit the edge of that platform and I just rolled off, there was no ending lag at all, and i could immediately do any kind of aerial afterward. I know this is not a great explanation but if you guys want I can put up a video of it.

 

[Be@st]

Ok, so i was playing a match today. And with all the talk about miss-fires, i started to use the move often. I found myself only finding an opening when they were recovering, and i did get a few kills this way. Also I canceled a green-missile O.o

It is extremely specific and has almost no real use, but just for fun I will let you guys know about it, incase anyone can further develop it.

I was on the second transformation on Castle Siege, I was on the side platform on the top.


I was standing right about where P1 is, maybe lower. I did a green-missile charged it a bit, aiming to the left, then when i let go, luigi's head hit the edge of that platform and I just rolled off, there was no ending lag at all, and i could immediately do any kind of aerial afterward. I know this is not a great explanation but if you guys want I can put up a video of it.

I have done it several times also. Im really busy with school right now but when I get some time I am going to put up some good videos of showing set ups for thsi move. This move should not be used on the ground, but a lot more in the air though. When used in the air the punsihment for using it is not great.