Luigi Changes, Round 1.1.1

[sims796]

Don't get me wrong, I'm never dropping Luigi, but I'll just take a short break from the game for a tad. I won't go all...borderline suicidal...like a few people here seem to be. You know who you are.

 

[The_Pizza_Guy]

lets not overreact on this , ok theres no reason to have false hopes on possible buffs on the future or be extremely optimistic over a misterious combo that can be discovered LOL, but lets be realistic and analyze every aspect so

luigi vs sheik, obviously the MU is worse than ever , but lets not forget that almost every character has troube against sheik, even us before the patch struggle to fight him, should they nerf him , obviously , but every other character main could say that.

luigi mechanics are pretty much the same until the 100% percent, hes still a combo machine , the problem is on high percenteages , when you say "ok i got quite dmg on him , now what do i do to kill him " on that moment is when we should be creative and improve our game , be better at reads, be better at make some frame traps, good edge grabs ,anything.

I think that for the competitive scene luigi could be reasonable viable, not as good as before obviously but my opinion is that we should co-main him with a good counterpick for his worst matchups, i believe he can deal with most of the roaster but a good partner as a main could get you to the top, when you play agaisnt diddy, sheik, rosalina... , my sugestions on other mains , Mario has pretty decent MU agaisnt sheik, , ROB. could help us on the spacing and spam , Yoshi and his super safe game. etc.

and finally , lets wait for the great luigi mains do they work and show us on tournaments , streams, videos, etc. what is their opinion /adaptation to the nerf. (boss, mr.concon )

 

[Jenna Zant]

Luigi never was good because his entire game revolved around d-throw. A character revolving completely around one move is not a well designed character. He could easily gain percent and could easily take stocks. It's not hard to understand why they nerfed Luigi to hell and back. It's because his character design was horrible. I'm just waiting for them to do the same to Sonic.

 

[Green L]

Luigi had legitimate weaknesses pre patch but instead of exploiting them, the community cried nerf. I can see why some players might drop luigi. There's no reason to play this character. If you want to play a character who revolves around down throw pick falcon or mario or even Dr mario. I'm sad to say, Luigi is irrelevant in the meta now.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

I think some of you all are greatly exaggerating with the nerf our boy Luigi received, lmao. How about we lab it up instead of making knee jerk reactions?

 

[Süberr]

I thought people were exaggerating when they said people just play Luigi because he's mindless or easy to play. Then after one day of the nerf y'all out. How can you be so fraudulent?

 

[sims796]

Luigi never was good because his entire game revolved around d-throw. A character revolving completely around one move is not a well designed character. He could easily gain percent and could easily take stocks. It's not hard to understand why they nerfed Luigi to hell and back. It's because his character design was horrible. I'm just waiting for them to do the same to Sonic.

You mean he was never balanced? Because he was always good. And while he was a powerful character that revolved around that throw, he still had terribly exploitable weaknesses. They nerfed Luigi without fixing his other flaws. That isn't exactly balance. Time will tell how this will play out.

 

[Kulty]

I think Luigi was already pretty balanced before. The down-throw nerf was a bit too much, but I think he's still pretty good. Let's see how can Luigi fare against the other characters now that his MU thread might be slightly worse.

 

[Green L]

I thought people were exaggerating when they said people just play Luigi because he's mindless or easy to play. Then after one day of the nerf y'all out. How can you be so fraudulent?

No, some players might drop luigi because there is no reason to play him.

 

[Exegguter]

Luigi had legitimate weaknesses pre patch but instead of exploiting them, the community cried nerf. I can see why some players might drop luigi. There's no reason to play this character. If you want to play a character who revolves around down throw pick falcon or mario or even Dr mario. I'm sad to say, Luigi is irrelevant in the meta now.

Seriously XD? Dr. Mario revolves around dthrow? Really? Dthrow to uair for 13% damage? Okay.

How can people seriously say that Luigi is a mid tier or even worse ''a bad character'' now. I honestly don't get it

He's super safe. His combogame is still insane since your opponent will eat at least 20% each grab. His jab is good. Usmash kills around 130% which isn't hard to rack up since Dthrow to uair still works till 110% against diddy and 90% against peach (floaty).

Someone please tell me how Luigi turned into the worse killing character in the game just from this nerf. Have you guys ever seen a dhd/palutena/sheik at high % or bjr.

 

[Samura1man]

I will keep playing Luigi, no matter what gets nerfed next, people shouldn't give up that quickly with their mains, look what they did with Diddy and people still use him, because he is still good. So is Luigi in my opinion.

Don't let these nerfs stop you from playing with Luigi, he still got combo tools, they didn't took them away.

There may be new guaranteed kill setups, who knows, need to test and find out, people always find something new.

 

[PenguinFluff]

Luigi isn't bad now, he's just not a threat like he was. It's looking you can't solo main Luigi anymore. You're gonna need someone faster or with better and safer range in order to do well now. Might be time to look into learning: . Because it'll be too big of a struggle with just Luigi at to this point.

 

[MarioMeteor]

For ****'s sakes...

You guys will see, the facts will speak by their own...

Luigi is done, MarioMeteor and MonkeyArms are totally right on their explanations...

Hold on now, I didn't say done. He's hurt pretty goddamn bad, but I don't think he's completely finished. Make no mistake people, I don't think Luigi is bad, but much less of a threat. Probably more or less around Dr. Mario's level.

That's the problem. You're defeated because you lost something. I understand way. Getting a kill off of a frame 6/8 option, that ignores shields, was very strong. And it's kinda gone, but kinda not. Depends on the matchup and blah blah blah.

But crying about a change doesn't develop a character. I've no respect for people who jump to conclusions like this. I had 5 years of it in League (lol Kayle), and it's grown old and stale.

15. That's the number of different setups that lead to kills in some way. We lost 1/16 of our setups. Maybe it's time to put some work into the other 15, eh? And those are just the ones I've personally found.

Or we can sit down and pout that our option was taken away and do nothing. Least we'll have some fond memories

Then is a good thing nobody asked for your respect. As I sad earlier, I'm fully aware of what we still have, but you're just plain lying to yourself if you think it amounts to what we had before. If you're happy with your fifteen setups, then whoopdee ****ing do for you, but don't act like what we lost was something small.

 

[Green L]

He's super safe. His combogame is still insane since your opponent will eat at least 20% each grab. His jab is good.

Plenty of other character can get 20+ from a grab like Mario, Falcon, Ganon, Roy, donkey kong,

Usmash kills around 130% which isn't hard to rack up since Dthrow to uair still works till 110% against diddy and 90% against peach (floaty).

Once again plenty of characters can do this to but have faster speed and agility and you are exaggerating on his down throw. It stops followups past 80%

Someone please tell me how Luigi turned into the worse killing character in the game just from this nerf. Have you guys ever seen a dhd/palutena/sheik at high % or bjr.

Palutena and sheik are faster on the ground, in the air, and have better grab range. As for DHD, well, you got me there but matches will take forever because luigi is so slow to punish anything

 

[Exegguter]

Plenty of other character can get 20+ from a grab like Mario, Falcon, Ganon, Roy, donkey kong,



Once again plenty of characters can do this to but have faster speed and agility and you are exaggerating on his down throw. It stops followups past 80%



Palutena and sheik are faster on the ground, in the air, and have better grab range. As for DHD, well, you got me there but matches will take forever because luigi is so slow to punish anything

Nah man go in training mode yourself

Dthrow to uair is still a true combo on peach till you grab her at 89%. 89+ 17 = 106. Add a bit to it and they're usmash ready. Check it out, against diddy still till arouns 108/109.

Palutena and sheik both have no kills out of grabs and both have worse smashes. Sheik has to read her opponent after 110% like a gimp or upb.

He lost his best killoption but to say he's bad at killing now is a stretch imo.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Up B is what.

Honestly, wtf? Mario's SJP doesn't kill until very late percents with rage. Doc's U-air sends people at semi-spike angle and definitely doesn't combo into his SJP, let alone the sweetspot.

I MAIN Doc. I KNOW what I'm talking about. Take a look at this video.

And Mario can carry his opponent to the blastzone for up b kills.

 

[monzer]

Ok so first of all, I don't think this should change Luigi much. First of all, his combos on lower percents are really good(and the look really cool).

Lack of killing options can't be that bad for weegee since most characters lack them.

I think he will still be top tier, just at the lower end of top tier, in comparison to him being at the higher end of top tier pre-patch. At worst, he will be high tier. Either way he is viable.

 

[Exegguter]

I MAIN Doc. I KNOW what I'm talking about. Take a look at this video.

And Mario can carry his opponent to the blastzone for up b kills.

That's not consistent at all uair into upb. If you watch the creator of this video therealcarterer in tournament matches he NEVER pulls it off. Not even once. I believe there are vids of his tournament matches on YouTube.

 

[GreenFlame]

We all know Luigi still has his insane combo ability at low-mid percents. His ability to rack up damage quickly is (mostly) unchanged. We've only lost guaranteed kills. This mainly makes Luigi a character that relies more on mindgames or mistakes to get a kill than he did previously.

Luigi even got two potential kill options (D-smash and D-air) made more reliable. It is far too early to be speculating that Luigi is going to be useless now.

Yes, it was an unneccessary increase in one of his flaws, but I'll be damned if it makes him "irrelevant".

 

[monzer]

So is up smash the way to go for killing now?

 

[MonkeyArms]

That's not consistent at all uair into upb. If you watch the creator of this video therealcarterer in tournament matches he NEVER pulls it off. Not even once. I believe there are vids of his tournament matches on YouTube.

Well I pull it off consistently.

 

[monzer]

Ok we should stop talking about where Luigi stands since it's obvious he is still viable(no character who does 20-30% off of a grab is mid-tier.)

Actually, from some of these combos it looks like he actually has a better combo game now.

Jab lock setups into up B should be a lot more useful post patch.

 

[TurboLink]

I believe Luigi's down throw was nerfed because he became polarizing.

 

[Luig]

I'm still blown away by the fact that 5 other dominating characters weren't nerfed....

 

[Pyr]

I'm still blown away by the fact that 5 other dominating characters weren't nerfed....

They probably feared that the shield stun nerfs would lead to more grabs, so they hit the guy with the best rewards off of grab.

 

[sims796]

I don't mind his d-throw nerf, I don't like how they didn't fix other issues. Get rid of that sliding on shield, make him a tad less floatier, make his d-taunt an instant ko, I'll settle for anything.

 

[monzer]

I don't mind his d-throw nerf, I don't like how they didn't fix other issues. Get rid of that sliding on shield, make him a tad less floatier, make his d-taunt an instant ko, I'll settle for anything.

Insta ko down taunt would be incredible.

 

[Ultra Luigi]

It's sad to see so much negativity from the newer members. Those of us who have been playing the previous versions of Smash have been accustomed to playing a Luigi who has been stuck in low to mid tier. I never understood all the flack that he got pre-patch because he's deficiencies were pretty obvious but what's done is done. He was never a top 5 character to begin with. Let's see what kind of new stuff we can find. And to those who choose not to stick around because he's not "tourney viable" anymore, why weren't you using Shiek in the first place?

Goodbye
*waves*

 

[Green L]

But other characters are a grab game just as good as luigi's like mario and falcon but they have greater speed and mobility to keep up with most opponents and extend combos. I don't want to play Mario 0.5. There's just no reason to play this character. Even brawl luigi is probably better than sm4sh luigi

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

I'm sorry my luigi brethren, but unfortunately our favourite plumber is now pretty awful against every other top tier without his kill confirms. (d-throw up-b was my favourite on fast fallers.....but alas)

Sad to drop the character but I can't justifiy playing him anymore

Time to play Sheik instead because lol why wasn't she nerfed.

You play luigi because you like the character though, you'd play him if he was trash (as he was in previous games).
I played Luigi because I enjoyed the grab reward and kill confirms (fit my playstyle well), and I liked his matchup spread/overall strength of the character.

If kill confirms is what you enjoyed with luigi then have fun with sheik LOL

All of you that are complaining about not being able to kill with luigi now need to get better. Most characters didn't have kill confirms in brawl (regardless of your opinion about the game) yet players got kills fine because they conditioned their opponent, made reads, and didn't have to be babied with a throw setup.

 

[Wtfwasthat]

People who said luigi will still be an amazing character after a nerfed dthrow will realize how stupid they actually are. Learn the character before you crying for a nerf. I love luigi, and he is still fun to play and is my main, but its no secret that he is nowhere near where he used to be prepatch.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Anybody that switches characters now probably wasn't a actually luigi main before patch

 

[Wtfwasthat]

truuuuuuuuuu

 

[Green L]

I played luigi in 64, melee, and brawl. In smash 4, there's just no reason to play him. I don't want to play a downgrade of mario.

 

[TriTails]

But other characters are a grab game just as good as luigi's like mario and falcon but they have greater speed and mobility to keep up with most opponents and extend combos. I don't want to play Mario 0.5. There's just no reason to play this character. Even brawl luigi is probably better than sm4sh luigi

I'm sorry. I really am. But all you did since this patch come out is to complain Luigi being a worse Mario. It's fine to complain, but extending your rage ain't helping anybody.

You don't want to play 'Mario 0.5'? Then don't play Luigi. Simple as that. Like Pyr (ThunderSt0rm?) said, if you just want to fall over your back and die, then stop posting here. If you truly want a character that is bested by no one and 'has a reason to play as', go pick Sheik or someone else. But stop literring our board with useless, non-productive posts.

 

[crisspy727]

I don't normally post but kinda annoying seeing people complain about how luigi is destroyed. He still has an amazing combos game and dthrow to up b is still a thing even if they DI you just have to read it and snatch the kill.

Also Unlike mario and falcon we got stupid priority on our moves yeah we might be slower but we got the best get out of combo free card and convert to crazy damage.

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

Don't you guys have mods or anyone who can silence these bandwagoners who hate the character and yet want to keep posting in the thread.
Also @bandwagoners you now have to do what almost every other character has to and read your opponent to kill him.

 

[Xephilon]

Well, just to ask, anybbody found any kill confirms yet? Other than late Nair -> Down B (which works mostly on low ceilings)

 

[BSP]

After playing against my buddy who plays Luigi post patch, here's my thoughts. His low % game is virtually unchanged and still one of the best in the game. Boxing game is still ridiculous, and racks damage extremely well.

However...

Past 100% or so, Dthrow starts losing all guaranteed followups, requiring KOs to come from edgeguards (you guys really need to master cyclone spikes now), 50/50s, or hard reads. With Luigi's poor mobility, this is not a good thing. The MUs where Luigi struggled in have all probably gotten 5 points or more worse since shielding is no longer a sure fire death sentence. I'm not sure if Rosalina will be a winnable MU at top level unless you guys really get on those cyclone spikes. Sheik and Pac-Man are also probably going to be really difficult, but not insurmountable.

That being said, this character isn't dead by a long shot. Once you guys find solid alternatives to get KOs, he'll settle in high tier IMO. His low % game can't be ignored, but getting KOs safely is extremely important as well.

Edit: my first goal with the character now would be to master cyclone spiking. For any character that likes to recover low that doesn't teleport or have a trampoline, it's a death sentence.

 

[monzer]

All the bandwagoners who are leaving probably will just come back after they realize the ditching a character due to the loss of a kill conform is pointless.

Any way, up smash should be our #1 killing option now, with down throw> up b as a close second. We just need to get better at reads.

Again guys, I can't really see him as anything less than top tier, even without his kill confirms. Remember that even with out his kill confirms he still has all the elements of top tier characters.