GreenFlame
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2014
- Messages
- 462
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- 0275-7873-0005
I agree with this. Especially that D-air, the meteor is much easier to land now compared to its somewhat obscure hitbox previously.
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Luigi Changes, Round 1.1.1
- Thread starter Pyr
- Start date
- Status
L∈O
Smash Journeyman
I wouldn't count on this if I was you...
You need to stop believing that good things will always happen for somebody or something just because it deserves to...
Can we start taking about how the shield nerf effects weegie?
Is it a double nerf because players will tend to be more agressive and not use their shields as much, or is it a buff because when they do shield, say a fireball, it'll be easier to get the grab?
Is it a double nerf because players will tend to be more agressive and not use their shields as much, or is it a buff because when they do shield, say a fireball, it'll be easier to get the grab?
Pyr
Smash Lord
Up-Air is now -4 on shield. So there is that.
I'm sorry my luigi brethren, but unfortunately our favourite plumber is now pretty awful against every other top tier without his kill confirms. (d-throw up-b was my favourite on fast fallers.....but alas)
Sad to drop the character but I can't justifiy playing him anymore
Time to play Sheik instead because lol why wasn't she nerfed.
Sad to drop the character but I can't justifiy playing him anymore
Time to play Sheik instead because lol why wasn't she nerfed.
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L∈O
Smash Journeyman
I know that feel...
But since I can't main him anymore, I'm dropping from the game completely actually...
I was really excited in doing things right this time, but this stupid patch KO'ed my desire, and seeing the game after that will drive me crazy just from remembering my intentions. I'm doing what's right...
I tested fireball on shield and the increased shield stun doesn't really make grabs significantly easier to get. Maybe as easy as it was before they increased the end lag on fireball. A buff, but not much, and a buff that everyone else gets too.
All of Luigi's aerials are still unsafe on shield (except for the well-spaced bair, of course), and won't combo into another move on shield for shield breaking combos. I haven't messed with this too extensively, but it doesn't look like Luigi gets any new shield breaking combos.
This looks really bad for Luigi. As much as you guys like to think Luigi will still be OK, I'm skeptical. Down throw gave us kills 30%+ earlier than anything else we can kill with now, excluding fire jump punch. IMO, Luigi is going to become VERY reliant on up-b reads and punishes. Movement is going to have to be perfect. I'll stick with Luigi, and it's possible we'll find stuff to keep him top tier, but right now it looks like high tier at best. He's basically a slow Mario with more damage and an easier to punish recovery. Spam that bair, baby.
All of Luigi's aerials are still unsafe on shield (except for the well-spaced bair, of course), and won't combo into another move on shield for shield breaking combos. I haven't messed with this too extensively, but it doesn't look like Luigi gets any new shield breaking combos.
This looks really bad for Luigi. As much as you guys like to think Luigi will still be OK, I'm skeptical. Down throw gave us kills 30%+ earlier than anything else we can kill with now, excluding fire jump punch. IMO, Luigi is going to become VERY reliant on up-b reads and punishes. Movement is going to have to be perfect. I'll stick with Luigi, and it's possible we'll find stuff to keep him top tier, but right now it looks like high tier at best. He's basically a slow Mario with more damage and an easier to punish recovery. Spam that bair, baby.
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L∈O
Smash Journeyman
Luigi was never top tier to start off actually, but yeah, that's what some people are refusing to believe or not taking it seriously...
That's our doom unfortunately...
That's our doom unfortunately...
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Pyr
Smash Lord
Real talk.
Leo, honestly, if you're just going to fall on your back and die, stop posting. You said you were going to drop the game, so take the first step and stop posting in that game's forum.
Seriously. Out of your 8 posts today, only 1 has been useful. It was your first, aka your initial impression of the patch.
We get it. You see Luigi as dead and the game as worthless. We don't need 8 posts to tell us that opinion.
Leo, honestly, if you're just going to fall on your back and die, stop posting. You said you were going to drop the game, so take the first step and stop posting in that game's forum.
Seriously. Out of your 8 posts today, only 1 has been useful. It was your first, aka your initial impression of the patch.
We get it. You see Luigi as dead and the game as worthless. We don't need 8 posts to tell us that opinion.
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
...I've got nothing but a headshake here. Unless you actually used Sheik before this patch then I don't really care.
I'm the moderator of the Luigi boards. Sure I already had my freakout of anger like I always do at new things [Rob in Brawl, WFT's inclusion...which I love now, Dark Pit...still trash] And yeah, I boiled over in the patch thread while some of my posts were deleted, and yeeeah Luigi is obviously not as good anymore...
But I'm not going to give up on my main for the past 4 smash games. As a leader of this board, it's my job to keep the strong and the weak who walk away from the new challenge are gone. Natural selection will lead to evolution of the new Luigi.
Let's get working on ways to use this new Shieldstun to our advantage people. I think Luigi's fast frame moves can eat away at shield's well.
You play luigi because you like the character though, you'd play him if he was trash (as he was in previous games).
I played Luigi because I enjoyed the grab reward and kill confirms (fit my playstyle well), and I liked his matchup spread/overall strength of the character.
In a competitive sense Luigi has no merit anymore, he lost his use as a counter-pick character for characters like Diddy/fox/Pika, so as much as I enjoy playing Luigi (though I much less enjoy fishing for up-smashes now), I enjoy characters like Shulk or Palutena too, doesn't mean I can justify putting time into them and playing them in tournament.
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
I think it's too early to be determining his counterpick status now without tourney vids myself. Diddy ad Pikachu, idk how they will go .Luigi's advantages against Diddy's bananas and able to gimp offstage are still there. Piachu vs Luigi. might hurt a bit more.
But Fox? Absolutely not. Luigi's moves and nair still eat Fox alive, Dair spike got bigger allowing for an even easier time to mess up Fox's up B, and the new D throw made it easier to combo floaties [Free d throw to up b off the first grab] along with fast fallers being surprisingly easier to hit out of D throw at high %. So no, Luigi still beats Fox soundly, even a bit more now really.
The new patch always gave Luigi like, 1% chance higher against Sheik although that's nothing of course just fun.
People still underestimate Luigi in Brawl. If MK didn't invalidate him more than almost anyone else, he'd be pretty decent/
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I mean, I admire your optimism and wish you all luck in continually developing the character.
Maybe I'll be wrong and Luigi will be worth looking into again, at this stage I don't believe it but who knows what future patches will bring (diddy was pretty meh in 1.0.8 then a lot better in 1.1.0 when they made up-smash for reliable so Luigi could feasibly be buffed back up)
Maybe I'll be wrong and Luigi will be worth looking into again, at this stage I don't believe it but who knows what future patches will bring (diddy was pretty meh in 1.0.8 then a lot better in 1.1.0 when they made up-smash for reliable so Luigi could feasibly be buffed back up)
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
I mean, if you're looking for the higher tier characters now than yeeah I'd of course recommend Sheik, Rosa, ZSS...arguably Mario now. Other characters like Ryu and Yoshi probably got better than Luigi thanks to the shieldstun thing going on to. Sheik is going to be borderline unstoppable after this patch.
TriTails
Smash Lord
Reminder on how Luigi's MUs are nerfed:
- No more frame 1 shield drop vs Mega's pellets. Welp.
- SHEIK'S F-AIR IS EVEN DUMBER NOW.
- Lucario is going to be a pain in the *** to kill
- Luigi is more vulnerable to projectiles such as Charge Shot due to the new shield stun change, as he is forced to be locked in shield longer now.
Purely theorycraft but those are the noticeable changes I can see happening.
But on another topic, don't worry about me guys. I'll still be the green man with the moustache, ruined or not.
If I can say, I appreciate those who tried to encourange us through these nerfs. I can't speak for everyone but I will definitely not going to sit down in the corner and suck my thumb because of these affairs. So... Thanks for every kind words y'all gave us.
Also, for those who considered dropping Luigi, do as you must. I understand some of Luigi mains played him due to the combos and kill setups. If the character isn't suiting your playsytle anymore, then I won't interfere. Good luck with your next character. Meanwhile, Im sure we can get through this. Luigi is probably no more high tier, I'm certain, but let's keep our heads up. Hopefully, we can get compensations for all of these. If not, well, I'll just keep running.
- No more frame 1 shield drop vs Mega's pellets. Welp.
- SHEIK'S F-AIR IS EVEN DUMBER NOW.
- Lucario is going to be a pain in the *** to kill
- Luigi is more vulnerable to projectiles such as Charge Shot due to the new shield stun change, as he is forced to be locked in shield longer now.
Purely theorycraft but those are the noticeable changes I can see happening.
But on another topic, don't worry about me guys. I'll still be the green man with the moustache, ruined or not.
If I can say, I appreciate those who tried to encourange us through these nerfs. I can't speak for everyone but I will definitely not going to sit down in the corner and suck my thumb because of these affairs. So... Thanks for every kind words y'all gave us.
Also, for those who considered dropping Luigi, do as you must. I understand some of Luigi mains played him due to the combos and kill setups. If the character isn't suiting your playsytle anymore, then I won't interfere. Good luck with your next character. Meanwhile, Im sure we can get through this. Luigi is probably no more high tier, I'm certain, but let's keep our heads up. Hopefully, we can get compensations for all of these. If not, well, I'll just keep running.
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dustinseth
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2015
- Messages
- 2
This is the first smash game I've tried to learn how to play for real. Discouraging that my first ever main got nerfed, but Imma stick with my boy.
PenguinFluff
Smash Rookie
I honestly love the character, and the character loyalist in me requires me to at least put some work in before i consider dropping him. But, I can already see how much of an uphill battle this is gonna be. They nerfed him into Mario's shadow. Him and Mario now have nearly the same game plan except Mario can edge guard more safely and has a much better neutral. It sucks.
I've been labbing setups and options, but wow it's hard. He needs a really good read, or lucky positioning to get a kill earlier than like 140. He still has the fireball into grab and the nice combo game at mid-percents, but then you have to fish hard for the random bair or grab near the ledge, etc. It's a little discouraging. The nerf was definitely justified, but what wasn't realized is that Luigi is kind of meh without the godlike kill setups, and the buffs he's gotten have done almost nothing to fix this now apparent flaw. He can still go for the down-b gimp, and has a nice edgeguard game, but it's not looking good for him.
I thought i had found a setup mid match to break shields, but the person had shield dropped between to try and power shield and got bodied. If anyone needs some ideas though, it was shielded fireballl-> bair-> land-> (Sonic attempts power shield) F-Smash.
I've been labbing setups and options, but wow it's hard. He needs a really good read, or lucky positioning to get a kill earlier than like 140. He still has the fireball into grab and the nice combo game at mid-percents, but then you have to fish hard for the random bair or grab near the ledge, etc. It's a little discouraging. The nerf was definitely justified, but what wasn't realized is that Luigi is kind of meh without the godlike kill setups, and the buffs he's gotten have done almost nothing to fix this now apparent flaw. He can still go for the down-b gimp, and has a nice edgeguard game, but it's not looking good for him.
I thought i had found a setup mid match to break shields, but the person had shield dropped between to try and power shield and got bodied. If anyone needs some ideas though, it was shielded fireballl-> bair-> land-> (Sonic attempts power shield) F-Smash.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Wow. Things have gotten bad when I hear people say that Dr. Mario is better than Luigi. I don't know what buffs or nerfs that he got, but that is still a big statement.
To be honest, we were probably a bit too reliant on down throw. The fact that it isn't effective as much does suck, but we will need to work around it; we'll have to adjust without it. Brawl Luigi had a good down throw, but he didn't get the combos in Brawl as Luigi once did in 4.
I just hope that one Luigi at the Big House 5 will show that Luigi, despite the nerfs, is still perfectly viable.
To be honest, we were probably a bit too reliant on down throw. The fact that it isn't effective as much does suck, but we will need to work around it; we'll have to adjust without it. Brawl Luigi had a good down throw, but he didn't get the combos in Brawl as Luigi once did in 4.
I just hope that one Luigi at the Big House 5 will show that Luigi, despite the nerfs, is still perfectly viable.
I agree. I think that Luigi in Brawl was pretty underrated. However, I think that he faced many problems that plagued him in that game that caused people to see that he is low-tiered, such as Meta Knight and especially chain grabbing.
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
If you liked Luigi, I'd reccomend picking up Doc if you want to win with a similar playstyle.
Speaking of similar playstyles, Luigi is basically Kirby now. He can rack up damage at low percents with throw combos and up tilt, and at high percent with strong pummels. Thing is, they don't kill at the same percent as other characters in the game in most cases.
Doctor Mario is better than Luigi now because shield stun benefits him, he can kill much more reliably than Luigi, and edge guards better. Their recovery is about the same. Doc wasn't that far under Luigi last patch, but now he is considerably better.
Please don't h8 the Doc m8.
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Luig
Confused
I'm still wondering why Shiek is still....
Whatever.
I'll stick with this character even if he's nerfed to shadow.
Whatever.
I'll stick with this character even if he's nerfed to shadow.
Kulty
Smash Ace
Ugh... Why did they nerf Luigi so bad? A character that I loved so much (I don't think he's braindead before) got touched severely hard when characters such as 
were not touched severely. UGH. WHY? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE! THESE CHARACTERS ARE BETTER THAN LUIGI AND THEY NERF HIM FIRST? I don't get it. Luigi is gonna drop down in the tier list a lot. I hope you guys don't drop him, because I think he's still amazing but not as much as before which sucks.
were not touched severely. UGH. WHY? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE! THESE CHARACTERS ARE BETTER THAN LUIGI AND THEY NERF HIM FIRST? I don't get it. Luigi is gonna drop down in the tier list a lot. I hope you guys don't drop him, because I think he's still amazing but not as much as before which sucks.
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
Because crybabies can't take a character based off grabs.Ugh... Why did they nerf Luigi so bad? A character that I loved so much (I don't think he's braindead before) got touched severely hard when characters such as
Kulty
Smash Ace
But still, they should nerf these 5 characters before Luigi, because I think that these 5 characters are too OP when used right. Especially Sheik. Luigi mains' life is gonna get a lot harder. However, I still think Luigi is still viable. SO GUYS. PLEASE DON'T DROP HIM! I think Luigi's more fun to watch than Sheik. Sheik is literally the most boring character in the entire game.
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
I'm just saying.
I get the match up is boring and simpler for Luigi, but they should have given him some easier way to get a kill at like 110. However, he can't really do that without reads or wide open punishes. (Aside from edge guarding.)
Kulty
Smash Ace
It's basically like
, since they have to make reads in order to finish the opponent's stock. They lack of kill setups like now.
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
Down throw up air up b is a kill set up with both. Also Doc has safe kill moves so kill setups are irrelevant.It's basically like
TriTails
Smash Lord
Up B is what.
Honestly, wtf? Mario's SJP doesn't kill until very late percents with rage. Doc's U-air sends people at semi-spike angle and definitely doesn't combo into his SJP, let alone the sweetspot.
Wtfwasthat
Smash Journeyman
Luigi has still been much worse in previous smash games, people need to stop over reacting
chic
Smash Ace
^^^
this may be surprising to most new luigi mains, but there was a time when luigi wasn't a top tier character and we some how managed. LOL <3 new luigi bye bye bandwagoners
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Samura1man
Smash Rookie
For you Luigi mains:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUW46HGInO8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5IV0F8nQnM
Luigi is still good, just need find new kill setups
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUW46HGInO8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5IV0F8nQnM
Luigi is still good, just need find new kill setups
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Süberr
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2015
- Messages
- 21
Beautiful.
My first reaction after the patch was to try the second one, but I haven't gotten it to work much at all when DI is in the mix. It might be a guaranteed kill setup on floaty characters that had a hard time escaping cyclone like Rosalina but even regular DI will probably make other characters fall out of cyclone after the increased hitlag change.
That said, you can still kill with rising cyclone off of an airdodge read and Cyclone spike is now amazing. You don't need to mash as hard for people to fall out and even if they manage to stay in the cyclone you can shuffle the cyclone position to send them flying towards the stage for a stage spike.
edit: mixed up which video was which
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TriTails
Smash Lord
Straight outta VRv2 thread:
How Luigi's advantage by hitting a shield with an aerial changed. This isn't the actual results, but just the differences from pre-patch. Example, F-air is now safer on shield by 4 frames compared to pre-patch, not it being positive for 4 frames on shield (Which would be ridiculous).
Xephilon
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2014
- Messages
- 160
- 3DS FC
- 2294-3812-5736
At first I was like "This looks like what I wrote but in video form" but then it got so much better! Thank you for showing me the way!
FUEGO!
Smash Journeyman
TBH5 is using 1.1.0, so it'd be a victory lap for weeg.
Guys, I don't know what to do. I'm thinking of jumping ship to full maining Mario, but i also thought about putting time into Lucas again. I think the shield nerfs may have made him like his PM self because now he can safely approach on shield with his aerials like his past interations. He no longer has to only approach with two moves (pk fire and Zair), AND i can keep my habit of downthrowing people. Food for thought, still gonna wait to see if I'm reqlly done with weeg, but i really don't like how he's just a Mario who has to work against his mobility issues to fish for kills. That's something i hated about Mario, get your opponent to 130% without killing them and you lose.
Xephilon
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2014
- Messages
- 160
- 3DS FC
- 2294-3812-5736
I hate the comments on the youtube vids.
"Yay Luigi's downthrow got nerfed finally!"
*Sees player getting used to new Dthrow and being creative with it*
"Omfg this wasn't a nerf, this was a buff! Smh Luigi is still braindead!" -_-
"Yay Luigi's downthrow got nerfed finally!"
*Sees player getting used to new Dthrow and being creative with it*
"Omfg this wasn't a nerf, this was a buff! Smh Luigi is still braindead!" -_-
Have you ever tried killing with sheik when the opponent is over 110%?
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