Luigi Changes, Round 1.1.1

[Süberr]

Why the F*** did they have to do that to Luigi?! Why?!!! He got worse because of those d*** nerfs!!!

I'm sorry for yelling, guys, but I'm just really p***** for what they did to my number one main and they did not have to do that.

We still have combos, just no guarantee kill at high percents. More surprised they didn't nerf nair.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Because Americans are lazy.

Japan knows what's up. Luigi doesn't have nearly the same presence there because their metagame (more focused around neutral and defensive play) is far more developed for dealing with characters like Luigi. Japan think Luigi is "eh". No one wants to play "lame" though and for many characters that is literally the only way you beat Luigi. American players tend to play more in a way that lets Luigi punish them more often.

Nintendo has proven that they do listen. If enough people cry loud enough and it seems like there's some sort of basis for nerfing, Nintendo may actually do it.

 

[Xephilon]

Guys, let's be real here. Dthrow to DownB was broken had to be patched some time around. Also, let's give this new dthrow a chance, might not be as good as the last one but it has it perks (Dthrow to Sweet spot Up B on fast fallers). What REALLY makes me mad/salty is the fact that Luigi gets hit with the nerf bat while Sheik goes untouched. That's not fair in any sense of the word.

Also, things I've noticed: Uair has a different KBG or base KB and Dsmash has been buffed, killing slightly earlier. Can someone confirm these for me? I'm more sure about the Dsmash than the Uair one.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I would agree that the character needs to be tested before people start publicly crying about the nerfs. Many of you haven't even played with the new patch yet. Not everything has been confirmed or deconfirmed yet. It's best to continue testing and get an overall feel for where your character is. Then voice your opinions.

 

[Xephilon]

I would agree that the character needs to be tested before people start publicly crying about the nerfs. Many of you haven't even played with the new patch yet. Not everything has been confirmed or deconfirmed yet. It's best to continue testing and get an overall feel for where your character is. Then voice your opinions.

Agreed! I'ma keep at it and see if I can find a good kill confirm or something to make up for the Dthrow Down B combo. I suggest everyone else do the same and see how we do. I should be able to post a few minor combos later in like 1 or 2 hours.

 

[grandi]

I've been linked some short vids of new shieldbreaking combos due to increased shield stun.
https://twitter.com/_infrom_/status/649196617187246080
https://twitter.com/gazer2014/status/649222545107873793

It looks like shield stun has been increased. Fireball on shield should lead to grab more easily. If it's significantly easier to grab from fireball on shield, I can completely understand why Luigi's kill setups from throws would be nerfed. Imagine a world where fireball to grab was guaranteed...

Fsmash does a lot of shield damage and didn't get nerfed. Maybe we can make some shield break combos at the ledge?

 

[Süberr]

I've been linked some short vids of new shieldbreaking combos due to increased shield stun.
https://twitter.com/_infrom_/status/649196617187246080
https://twitter.com/gazer2014/status/649222545107873793

It looks like shield stun has been increased. Fireball on shield should lead to grab more easily. If it's significantly easier to grab from fireball on shield, I can completely understand why Luigi's kill setups from throws would be nerfed. Imagine a world where fireball to grab was guaranteed...

Fsmash does a lot of shield damage and didn't get nerfed. Maybe we can make some shield break combos at the ledge?

Fairly new to the concept of shield stuns. So in the first video was Falco actually stuck into his shield? Was he holding it the whole time to not take damage? Does shield stun make you stay in shield longer?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

More shield stun = when something hits your shield you are locked in shield longer.

 

[FEFIZ]

I'm...so sorry my fellow Luigi mains. This was an unneeded nerf when Sheik was left untouched.

Come on guys, group hug. I need one.

I need a hug too =´/

 

[FEFIZ]

So his down throw and his Cyclone was nerfed? Sheik also went nearly untouched?
...
This just started to be a bad day for me.

For Us*

 

[FEFIZ]

Yeah guys, bad day for us...

 

[Remioli]

I feel like Nintendo, Sakurai, whoever, wants you to kill opponents with smash attacks and nothing else. There are no kill setups in this game at all and no combos past like 70. That's the only reason I liked luigi at all.

There are so few characters with aerials that kill or tilts. Nothing combos into smash attacks. This game is so boring when you're both at high percents and looking for a kill.

There goes another character you'll be seeing in tournaments.

 

[Yonder]

Guys, let's be real here. Dthrow to DownB was broken had to be patched some time around. Also, let's give this new dthrow a chance, might not be as good as the last one but it has it perks (Dthrow to Sweet spot Up B on fast fallers). What REALLY makes me mad/salty is the fact that Luigi gets hit with the nerf bat while Sheik goes untouched. That's not fair in any sense of the word.

Also, things I've noticed: Uair has a different KBG or base KB and Dsmash has been buffed, killing slightly earlier. Can someone confirm these for me? I'm more sure about the Dsmash than the Uair one.

Yeah D smash kills slightly earlier now it's been confirmed.

 

[leesinger]

Eh so what if his throws got nerfed. He can stil kill early with angled f-smash and upsmash, downsmash actually got a buff. D-thrtow simply stops comboing at around 90%, so we can still rack up damage super quickly. I for one am happy us luigis will have to get creative with how we kill and not just rely on dthrow to down b every single time

 

[chic]

I welcome the nerf with open arms!

 

[Shady Penguin]

Video doesn't seem to be working anymore. Could really use a lift in spirits after this nerf

Apparently it crashed from too much traffic. I'll be uploading it to youtube today.

 

[Pryze]

I feel like Nintendo, Sakurai, whoever, wants you to kill opponents with smash attacks and nothing else. There are no kill setups in this game at all and no combos past like 70. That's the only reason I liked luigi at all.

There are so few characters with aerials that kill or tilts. Nothing combos into smash attacks. This game is so boring when you're both at high percents and looking for a kill.

There goes another character you'll be seeing in tournaments.

I'm not sure if you're just salty because Luigi got nerfed or what, but there are most definitely still kill set-ups, kill throws, spikes, stage spiking, aerials, grab set ups, combos, ect that kill. Sure, not everybody had access to a grab kill set-up at 80% like Luigi did, but that most certainly doesn't mean that there is a lack of kill options in the game just because one character got nerfed.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

The way I would look at this is simple:

You guys knew that this would probably going to be thing. You knew that there is a LOT of hate for your character. You knew that there were bandwagoners and "tier whores", etc who were doing well enough with him in large numbers. Nothing about this nerf was a surprise.

Now, you have an opportunity here. There is good to be had from this situation. For starters, I'm sure there's a quite a bit of you who actually would play the character because you legitimately love the character. You guys can have your chance to shine because I guarantee you those bandwagoners are gonna go flock to and probably since they survived the patch. This is your chance to show some depth and creativity. How can people call him braindead if you PROVE he's more than Down Throw kill confirms? This is your chance. Sitting here getting salty/sad fixes nothing. Innovation is how you rise above the challenges presented to you this time. Luigi is still a playable character. Go figure it out. Champions are those who can accept these barriers and break past them.

 

[leesinger]

^ This

Screw bandwagoners I'm glad they're gonna leave

 

[FEFIZ]

The way I would look at this is simple:

You guys knew that this would probably going to be thing. You knew that there is a LOT of hate for your character. You knew that there were bandwagoners and "tier whores", etc who were doing well enough with him in large numbers. Nothing about this nerf was a surprise.

Now, you have an opportunity here. There is good to be had from this situation. For starters, I'm sure there's a quite a bit of you who actually would play the character because you legitimately love the character. You guys can have your chance to shine because I guarantee you those bandwagoners are gonna go flock to and probably since they survived the patch. This is your chance to show some depth and creativity. How can people call him braindead if you PROVE he's more than Down Throw kill confirms? This is your chance. Sitting here getting salty/sad fixes nothing. Innovation is how you rise above the challenges presented to you this time. Luigi is still a playable character. Go figure it out. Champions are those who can accept these barriers and break past them.

Hey Batman, I liked your way of thiking, but the nerf is real and I still crying. But Luigi will still my main =)

 

[Pyr]

Give it 3 months. My initial impression is that we lost the kill setups, but we gained so much more early. D-Smash is silly now as well.

I feel like it's christmas.

 

[Süberr]

It has only been a couple hours into the patch. People need to give it time before they make assumptions about Luigi. The only thing we actually lost is kill setup. If you are truly honest with yourself you knew the down throw to down b was a easy way to end a stock. Either that was going to get a nerf or nair was.

What people should be excited about is that since Luigi got changed there are new combos that people don't know about. Just hit the lab or For Glory and find out what works. People are calling Luigi irrelevant already and haven't given it a thought, stop listening to them. People reacting to these nerfs like it's the end of the world and haven't even played today, give it a couple days, at least try.

 

[The_Pizza_Guy]

As a main luigi its hard to be optimistic but at least we have some new combos to learn and other things to discover , im not giving up on luigi just because of this, hes been my main since melee and i feel comfortable with him. however we do lost our best kill setup, and its sad, especialy because now we have to be fishing some mistakes from the opponents to kill them with a smash instead of make our own setup to grab and combo kill, anyways the true luigi mains will still be united in the hard times! haha

 

[louie g]

I also hope that people won't call him braindead anymore. That is what I want.
I want to prove to people that I am a good Luigi and that I am not being carried by my character.
I'm still sticking with Luigi regardless of any buff or nerf.

Honestly, luigi's only as braindead as the user playing him, so the people who call him braindead are making fun of themselves, don't bother with those types of people if you can help it!

 

[Süberr]

One thing I will say is that I use shield very much to stop Luigi from sliding. I wonder how this will work with the new shield changes. Also trying to think of shield break setups, misfire could ruin someones day if done correctly.

 

[Exegguter]

I feel like a lot of people are exaggerating lol... This was most likely going to happen anyways...

It's not like his killing is dhd, palutena or bowser jr tier. He still has some good options they just removed the lame one.

I will be happy to see the bandwagon Luigi mains disappear. And his combo game on low percentages is crazyyyyy. I love it.

 

[Underhill]

After doing a bunch of matches with him, I still having him as my man main and I'm not letting go of my favorite character. The nerfs suck, but I'll play as him because he's my main fighter.

 

[Xephilon]

Well guys I did some reasearch in the lab and this is the most common combos/strings and their percentages

On Fast Fallers like Sheik, Fox and Greninja:

Spoiler

0% Dthrow -> Anything
0%-19% Dthrow -> Usmash (20% damage)
0% Dthrow -> Up B (32% Damage) <--- Highly recommend
15-27% Dthrow -> Fair -> Nair (26% damage) Can be further expanded (but not a true combo) with an Usmash as you land (38% total damage)
15% - 65% Dthrow -> Fair (x2) (22% damage)
50%-60% Dthrow -> Dair spike -> Nair (22% damage)
15%-110% Dthrow -> Uair (17% damage)
50%-75% Dthow -> Aerial Up B (26% damage)
15% - 85% Dthrow -> Bair (20% with sweet spot, 14% with sour)
40%-55% Dthrow -> Uair (x2) (26% damage)
50%-60% Dthrow -> Uair -> Fair (25% damage)
40-55% Dthrow -> Uair -> Bair (25% damage)
*Note: These are all true combos according to training mode.

Strings:
15%-30% Dthrow -> Fair x2 -> Regrab dthrow -> Full hop Fair x2 (44% damage)
50%+ Jab -> Sweet spot Up B (mostly works on scrubs or people who don't expect it, work as a kill move) (26% damage)
0%-7% Dthrow -> Usmash -> Turnaround grab dthrow -> Usmash (40% damage))

On mid weight like Ike, Mario and Link

Spoiler

0% Dthrow -> Anything
0% - 23% Dthrow -> Usmash
10%-30% Dthrow -> Fair -> Nair (26% damage) Can be further expanded (but not a true combo) with an Usmash as you land (38% total damage)
15% - 50% Dthrow -> Fair (x2) (22% damage)
50%-60% Dthrow -> Dair spike -> Nair (22% damage)
15%-110% Dthrow -> Uair (17% damage)
50%-75% Dthow -> Aerial Up B (26% damage)
15% - 75% Dthrow -> Bair(20% damage if sweet spot, 14% sour)
40%-55% Dthrow -> Uair (x2) (26% damage)
55%-62% Dthrow -> Uair -> Fair (25% damage)
40-55% Dthrow -> Uair -> Bair (25% damage)
*Note: These are all true combos according to training mode.

Strings:
10-20%% Dthrow -> Fair x2 -> Regrab dthrow -> Full hop Fair x2 (44% damage)
50%+ Jab -> Sweet spot Up B (mostly works on scrubs or people who don't expect it, work as a kill move) (26% damage)
0% Dthrow -> Usmash -> Turnaround grab dthrow -> Usmash (40% damage))

I know some of these are very obvious and seem similar to the combos with our old Dthrow but thought I should try them and write them down anyway. The only "Kill confirm" is the Jab -> Up B. I can't seem to make anything else work.

 

[Luig]

Well, this wasn't the best thing to come home from school to, but remember

its not .

You know, this nerf doesn't seem to bad.
Let the bandwagoners be bandwagoners.
Only the true mains will stick.

 

[Exegguter]

Well guys I did some reasearch in the lab and this is the most common combos/strings and their percentages

On Fast Fallers like Sheik, Fox and Greninja:

Spoiler

0% Dthrow -> Anything
0%-19% Dthrow -> Usmash (20% damage)
0% Dthrow -> Up B (32% Damage) <--- Highly recommend
15-27% Dthrow -> Fair -> Nair (26% damage) Can be further expanded (but not a true combo) with an Usmash as you land (38% total damage)
15% - 65% Dthrow -> Fair (x2) (22% damage)
50%-60% Dthrow -> Dair spike -> Nair (22% damage)
15%-110% Dthrow -> Uair (17% damage)
50%-75% Dthow -> Aerial Up B (26% damage)
15% - 85% Dthrow -> Bair (20% with sweet spot, 14% with sour)
40%-55% Dthrow -> Uair (x2) (26% damage)
50%-60% Dthrow -> Uair -> Fair (25% damage)
40-55% Dthrow -> Uair -> Bair (25% damage)
*Note: These are all true combos according to training mode.

Strings:
15%-30% Dthrow -> Fair x2 -> Regrab dthrow -> Full hop Fair x2 (44% damage)
50%+ Jab -> Sweet spot Up B (mostly works on scrubs or people who don't expect it, work as a kill move) (26% damage)
0%-7% Dthrow -> Usmash -> Turnaround grab dthrow -> Usmash (40% damage))

On mid weight like Ike, Mario and Link

Spoiler

0% Dthrow -> Anything
0% - 23% Dthrow -> Usmash
10%-30% Dthrow -> Fair -> Nair (26% damage) Can be further expanded (but not a true combo) with an Usmash as you land (38% total damage)
15% - 50% Dthrow -> Fair (x2) (22% damage)
50%-60% Dthrow -> Dair spike -> Nair (22% damage)
15%-110% Dthrow -> Uair (17% damage)
50%-75% Dthow -> Aerial Up B (26% damage)
15% - 75% Dthrow -> Bair(20% damage if sweet spot, 14% sour)
40%-55% Dthrow -> Uair (x2) (26% damage)
55%-62% Dthrow -> Uair -> Fair (25% damage)
40-55% Dthrow -> Uair -> Bair (25% damage)
*Note: These are all true combos according to training mode.

Strings:
10-20%% Dthrow -> Fair x2 -> Regrab dthrow -> Full hop Fair x2 (44% damage)
50%+ Jab -> Sweet spot Up B (mostly works on scrubs or people who don't expect it, work as a kill move) (26% damage)
0% Dthrow -> Usmash -> Turnaround grab dthrow -> Usmash (40% damage))

I know some of these are very obvious and seem similar to the combos with our old Dthrow but thought I should try them and write them down anyway. The only "Kill confirm" is the Jab -> Up B. I can't seem to make anything else work.

Great! What about floaties like jiggs, peach or mewtwo

 

[Xephilon]

Great! What about floaties like jiggs, peach or mewtwo

Being honest, I got lazy after the midweights xD But I'll do the lightweights when I get back from class, sound good?

 

[Luig]

Also, guys, if you are good enough with the timing (it isn't too hard after the hitbox size change in the last patch) you can still dthrow > up b to kill around 90. I tested this on Mario.

 

[MarioMeteor]

The hell were they thinking? Taking away the only reliable way of killing from a character that can't kill otherwise.

 

[Luig]

The hell were they thinking? Taking away the only reliable way of killing from a character that can't kill otherwise.

I think it has to do with
A. Japan plays really differently with Luigi
B. Sakurai only wants people to kill with smash attacks and some throws

 

[MarioMeteor]

I think it has to do with
A. Japan plays really differently with Luigi
B. Sakurai only wants people to kill with smash attacks and some throws

If Japan's input mattered THAT much, Pac-Man and Wario would've gotten nerfed a long time ago.

 

[Luig]

If Japan's input mattered THAT much, Pac-Man and Wario would've gotten nerfed a long time ago.

Then I think it is the latter.

 

[Exegguter]

Being honest, I got lazy after the midweights xD But I'll do the lightweights when I get back from class, sound good?

Cool, I'm getting back from work in 20 minutes so I'll be testing some as well

 

[MonkeyArms]

How are you going to land N-air in neutral tho? And IIRC U-tilt is too slow to be comboed into Cyclone or B-air. Same probably goes for N-air.

How many times have you tried it in matches?

 

[leesinger]

With the changes to how shield stun no works, I believe that using nair right before hitting the ground on someones shield is unpunishable. Need to test further.

 

[Axel311]

The hell were they thinking? Taking away the only reliable way of killing from a character that can't kill otherwise.

What?!?!? Luigi has a super quick, super safe upsmash that he can in large part spam. One of the best upsmashes in the game. That's an amazing kill move.

Luigi absolutely can't complain about trouble killing, there's lots and lots of other characters in the cast who actually have to get a solid read for the kill because they get punished hard for missing smash attacks, because their smashes aren't safe. Luigi requires more creativity now, but he still has safe kill options.

Overall, I think there's a lot of overreaction to the nerf. Luigi is still a great character. His combo game is still amazing, he just doesn't have a braindead dthrow to cyclone kill confirm. Gonna have to think and work a little harder for the kill.

I doubt he's any longer top 5, but I personally don't see him sliding out of top 15. We'll have to see what the top Luigi mains can do with him in the next few months, should be exciting to watch.