Lucina Thread [Closing]

[Kef]

How about this then:

Different air animations. Granted not an actual move, but you can see the two character's different air-time animations.

Can we has forum now?

Not really. Lucina is rising from her jump, while Marth is descending. Marth has that same animation. For the other two pics posted above, I am pretty sure that's the startup of Marth's Brawl Shield Breaker.

Also, no need to call anyone ignorant guys. There's good points on both sides regarding to whether Lucina is an actual character in the select screen as a Marth clone or a costume.

One last thing, was she always that tall? She seems taller than Robin to me.

 

[GamerGuy09]

TY Based Sakurai.

 

[Neo Zero]

Look, all I'm saying is I'm not convinced.

Can anyone give me a good reason why Sakurai would announce her as a new character and then not show a SINGLE new move on her?

That doesn't make any sense.

Because her move properties are different, like another CHARACTER in Roy. She also has different taunts it looks like with the mask, her voice is different, and as said, it looks like she's faster than Marth.

If the Melee clones have sub forums, why shouldn't Lucina, someone listed as a newcomer and has her own site slot. It shouldn't matter if her moveset is the same. Heck, even if her properties are the same, she's still listed as a newcomer and her own character. No reason for her not to have one.

 

[Bassoonist]

Not really. Lucina is rising from her jump, while Marth is descending. Marth has that same animation. For the other two pics posted above, I am pretty sure that's the startup of Marth's Brawl Shield Breaker.

Also, no need to call anyone ignorant guys. There's good points on both sides regarding to whether Lucina is an actual character in the select screen as a Marth clone or a costume.

One last thing, was she always that tall? She seems taller than Robin to me.

There is no good point on the side of her being an alt. She is listed as a newcomer on both the PC/Mac and Mobile site. There is no question.

Whether or not she is a clone is what should be discussed, because that other question has been answered.

 

[Reginleif]

Look, all I'm saying is I'm not convinced.

Can anyone give me a good reason why Sakurai would announce her as a new character and then not show a SINGLE new move on her?

That doesn't make any sense.

Is Lucina, the most popular character of Awakening and icon to female representation, going to be paid complete dust even if she was an alt? That doesn't discredit her as a new character, and it doesn't make sense that she doesn't get a subforum.
If she is a Marth alt, I wouldn't picture you guys changing the Marth subforum to accommodate Lucina. Lucina is her own character with her own personality and story.

 

[ihskeyp]

Except you forgot the part where everything I said is valid.

Just because people find one thing, one little glimmer of hope that this character will be playable they jump to conclusions.

Some saying the official site is glitched when there's no proof of a glitch.

I'm not jumping to conclusions, I never SAID Lucina will NOT be playable as her own character.

Let's look at one more example. Aside from the clones of Falcon/Ganon, Link/Toon Link, Fox/Falco, they are different enough in models to the point they even have different wait animations and stances. Marth/Lucina along with Doc/Mario are almost exactly the same aside from taunts.

With this, and the fact that Sakurai himself says he wants to limit clones, we can assume that there's a possibility that Marth and Lucina may even share the same slot or she may be an alternate costume with her own set of Costum Moves.



Why? Do you get paid to do this? I don't see the reason to go out of your way to do something like this.

They didn't show new moves because she's a clone, obviously. She's listed as a newcomer, has her own banner on the mobile site (which helps prove that the site may be glitching) and on the website it says 'new challenger Lucina joins the battle' and she has her own spot on the website... What's your evidence that she isn't her own character other than 'she has Marty moves, obviously she's not a clone just an alt'
Edit: and she is shown holding her mask, which may be a taunt. Lars don't have different taunts.

 

[obeymalleo]

So was Roy, your point?

Well, Sakurai has said that he is trying to avoid clone characters in the new game. Plus, I'm disappointed that Lucina's moveset lacks it's own personality. I was actually watching a PSA of her in brawl, and most of her aerial attacks were different than Marth's. So in my mind, I was like, if a hacked moveset made by somone on the internet can be unique, than the official moveset in SSB4 would be different. I'm just disappointed that Lucina's moveset is essentialy Marth's.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I think the only reason Lucina doesn't have a graphic is because she's featured heavily in Robin's graphic. I think they wanted to use that for both of them but not have it put on the page in two different locations.

 

[EchoesOfRain]

She has the same idle stance and animation as Marth. She has the same wait animation, putting her hand on her chest, as Marth. She has identical moves to Marth. Unlike other clones of the game, Capt Falcon/Ganondorf, Link/Young Toon Link, Fox/Falco, Marth and Lucina's models are more or less the exact same. And in the end, as a newcomer, Lucina should have her own art banner, she is listed as "update" rather than "newcomer" and there's a reason why they placed a question mark and exclamation mark after her reveal.

Everyone talking about ignorance here is ironic and annoying.

Keep in mind I'm neither for or against Lucina either.

Pretty much this. The "!?" after "Lucina wakes her blade" definitely caught my attention as well. That is an odd place the put "!?" for no reason.

And to those saying "Oh, but she has a character box on the site!" or "Oh, why don't other alt costumes have boxes?" please just...stop. Try to be a bit more open minded. Lucina is in. You win. Stop complaining. Some of us have enough evidence to believe that her newcomer status is in a different state than others.

Yes, she has her own box. She is a unique character, after all. Lucina is Lucina. However, she moves just like marth. I'm sure she has VERY similar stats as well, if they are different at all. If she's going to resemble marth so closely, why not put her in the same slot? She gets to be in the game, but also doesn't use up a roster slot. With her having a small box on the roster, it's kinda like saying "Hey, it's a new character, but her moveset isn't something that you haven't seen before!"

"But why don't other alt costumes get their own boxes on the site?" Other Alt costumes are the same character, why would they advertise the same character twice? Marth and Lucina are 2 different enities. Mac and hoodie/wireframe mac are still mac. F.WFT and M.WFT are still WFT. Lucina and Marth are not both Marth, but if they both shared the Marth model, nobody could tell the difference other than Lucina's voice

"Why aren't other clones in the same slot?" Marth and Lucina represent the same series, and have similar weight and height to fit together well. Ganon weighs much more than falcon, and is slower and stronger, and prolly even taller. Toon Link is shorter, faster, floatier, and weaker than Link. If you overlapped those clones, their stats would not match AT ALL.

tldr; Marth and Lucina are the only situation where they could get by with using the same slots due to similar heights, weights, and stats. Lucina's moveset is not new, therefore should not be advertised like a newcomer, but as a new character, deserves to be mentioned on the site

 

[Hoser]

Look, all I'm saying is I'm not convinced.

Can anyone give me a good reason why Sakurai would announce her as a new character and then not show a SINGLE new move on her?

That doesn't make any sense.

Not to be mean, but there doesn't need to be a reason. Sakurai doesn't need to explain himself to us.

As for not being convinced, all I can say is:

And the challanger approaching banner I don't have a pic of.

Clone or not, she's her own character.

Also, we haven't seen her custom moves yet. She could end up being very unique with a bit of adjustment.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I have to say I really don't see what's so difficult about letting Lucina fans have a subforum.

She has a spot on the official website.

Let's all discuss her validity as a newcomer in her subforum.

 

[AceZTeller]

Just as an afterthought, couldn't they do the same thing to Dark Pit as Lucina? I could see both as being a special alt, but not necessarily a clone character.

 

[Xhampi]

Never thought I would be hype at a FE newcommer, even less to a veteran

Congratulations people !

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Well, Sakurai has said that he is trying to avoid clone characters in the new game. Plus, I'm disappointed that Lucina's moveset lacks it's own personality. I was actually watching a PSA of her in brawl, and most of her aerial attacks were different than Marth's. So in my mind, I was like, if a hacked moveset made by somone on the internet can be unique, than the official moveset in SSB4 would be different. I'm just disappointed that Lucina's moveset is essentialy Marth's.

That doesn't mean he won't add any at all, it means he won't go overboard like Melee having Roy, Pichu, Ganondorf, Doc, Young Link, and Falco as newcomer clones. Lucina on the other hand is just one character.

 

[Azule07]

With this, and the fact that Sakurai himself says he wants to limit clones, we can assume that there's a possibility that Marth and Lucina may even share the same slot or she may be an alternate costume with her own set of Costum Moves.

Not meaning to argue over it or anything silly like that, i'd like to shift the burden of proof to you. Can you prove that she shares the same spot of Marth, or is an alternate costume? Because Lucina supporters can't prove that she's not. Everything is circumstantial evidence until we get more than twenty seconds of footage from her.

Like you said, too, if she gets a different set of custom moves, wouldn't that be enough to distinguish her as a clone? She'll move similiarly to Marth, yes, but with different moves, she would be at worst a semi-clone.

Look, all I'm saying is I'm not convinced.

Can anyone give me a good reason why Sakurai would announce her as a new character and then not show a SINGLE new move on her?

That doesn't make any sense.

We've seen altered versions of existing moves on her. That's different enough; and besides, Captain Falcon/Ganondorf Fox/Falco are in the same boat - yet they're treated as separate characters.

tldr; Marth and Lucina are the only situation where they could get by with using the same slots due to similar heights, weights, and stats. Lucina's moveset is not new, therefore should not be advertised like a newcomer, but as a new character, deserves to be mentioned on the site

I entirely agree with you, to be honest. She's not really a newcomer as she's not bringing anything "new" to the table, she's just bringing a changed version of what we already know. She may bring something new when we see her custom specials, but for now, she's just a new character, not a newcomer.

 

[Kenith]

I can confirm Lucina has a full banner on the mobile site.

On the PC site, the fighters have to fit into a single rectangle, and since Lucina and Robin share their newcomer art, they figured it was easier to give her a normal sized square and fit in with the rest.

However, on the mobile site, the newcomers and vets are segregated, and Lucina's right up there with Robin.

 

[TheKingOfTown]

Who says that Lucina can't be similar to Dr. Mario, where her moves may look the same, but they have different properties?

 

[samsparta21]

Well that's terrifying.

 

[Reginleif]

If Chrom was a Marth alt and had a box on the main site, I bet he would still be given a subforum. -_-

Lucina is NOT Marth. She is her own character, whether or not she is his alt or not. She doesn't deserve to be paid complete dust.

 

[Bassoonist]

Well that's terrifying.

Luigi death glared the wrong person.

 

[Little-Mac!!]

but at one point lucina does an iddle animation that's similar to marth's except her hand floats in front of her instead of being on her chest.. that's kinda suspicous

 

[FlynnCL]

Congratulations everyone! She looks amazing.

Honestly, at the very least I'd prefer her to be a near-clone of Marth rather than an alternative costume for Marth.

A Melee Roy-esque situation is something I'm fine with, because at least she gets some differences.

 

[TheKingOfTown]

but at one point lucina does an iddle animation that's similar to marth's except her hand floats in front of her instead of being on her chest.. that's kinda suspicous

So? It's the same as Dr. Mario and Ganondorf. They have the same idle animation as their original character, but they have their own page.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I think they would have just added her to the Marth page if she was a skin, similar to male/female wii fit trainer and Robin. If she is a skin and they are keeping her on a separate page, they're causing huge misconceptions. Bad, bad decision.

Also, in regards to the question mark, I think it's because she gets struck down immediately afterwards. The "joins the battle" happens, she gets stuck down, you question whether or not she's actually in the game, and then robin gets revealed. After robins reveal, she mentions she's joining too and they show off her moveset.

 

[Kenith]

So let me get this straight.

All characters get their own sub-forum, including newcomers.

But Lucina doesn't because she's similar to Marth?
Wow.

 

[Neo Zero]

Incidentally, Captain Falcon doesn't have a sub forum atm either (least not one I see). Maybe they'll put up Lucina's and Falcon's at the same time.

 

[NotLiquid]

• Listed as a newcomer on mobile site, her own character page and the video list
• Exhibits some unique visual traits but still a borrowed moveset which we can only compare to another character at surface value
• All signs treat as her own her own character despite all of that where-as alt costumes are just variations on the same character/same name

Sounds like any other clone character to me. I don't doubt she'll have unique traits like Doc and Falco. I think it's just likely the board staff haven't updated the character section yet since Cap isn't there either.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

She's a newcomer more than 3 different places confirmed this.

She deserves her own section.

After all had Roy come back in that trailer (who is basically the same concept as her) he would have a section already. There'd be no hesitation.

 

[Starbound]

So let me get this straight.

All characters get their own sub-forum, including newcomers.

But Lucina doesn't because she's similar to Marth?
Wow.

Apparently she isn't getting one because she could still be an alt-costume for Marth.

Yeah I don't get it either.

 

[Souless_shadow]

Congrats all of you Lucina supporters! Personally I didn't think we would get her but we did and she looks pretty good!

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Lucina has her own collection of pictures on the smash website. If Sakurai/Nintendo care enough to give her a role in a smash newcomer trailer and give her a spot on the official website there shouldn't be a question about her getting her own subforum.

This should have just happened without such a fuss....

 

[ihskeyp]

Incidentally, Captain Falcon doesn't have a sub forum atm either (least not one I see). Maybe they'll put up Lucina's and Falcon's at the same time.

Falcon had one but it was out of alphabetical order and put before bowser for whatever reason so it was removed.

 

[Bassoonist]

Apparently she isn't getting one because she could still be an alt-costume for Marth.

Yeah I don't get it either.

Yet she is marked as a newcomer. There is no question.

The hesitation must be for a different reason? There is no room for any misconception left, so it'd be really dumb if that's the reason.

 

[ImaClubYou]

They didn't show new moves because she's a clone, obviously. She's listed as a newcomer, has her own banner on the mobile site (which helps prove that the site may be glitching) and on the website it says 'new challenger Lucina joins the battle' and she has her own spot on the website...

I already saw her on the mobile. She's listed as a newcomer. What does that mean to you? That she's auto playable? Maybe she's listed as a technical newcomer because she just has a different name and different voice. Technically, Daisy was a newcomer as Peach's Alternate in Melee and Brawl(yes she's an alternate, different model, designs).

You know why Lucina isn't an Alt?
HER NAME.
An Alt. Costume is exactly what it says; an Alternate COSTUME. Not a different character.
Do you want to hear "THIS GAMES WINNER IS... MARTH!" when Lucina wins?
No. You don't.

With this Logic, whenever Peach won in Daisy's costume the announcer should have yelled "DAISY" but didn't. Possibly the same for Marth/Lucina. I doubt it though, since this game is future they should recognize when an Alt is being used. We can assume when Wire Frame Mac wins the announcer might say "this games winner is... Wire Frame Mac!"

Edit: and she is shown holding her mask, which may be a taunt. Lars don't have different taunts.

So are you telling me you have solid info on the development team saying they are incapable of creating different animations for some alternate costumes? A taunt can't be impossible to program into a individual costume slot.

What's your evidence that she isn't her own character other than 'she has Marty moves, obviously she's not a clone just an alt'

Really, that's all I really need to QUESTION IT. But as you can see in previous post, there are many other reasons I would think so right down to being completely the same in ALL animations aside from taunts.

That last part is just putting words in my mouth.

 

[Ryan.]

Congrats to the Lucina supporters. :D

I love that picture of her with Luigi.

 

[Neo Zero]

Apparently she isn't getting one because she could still be an alt-costume for Marth.

Yeah I don't get it either.

That's garbage. They should just make a darn sub forum, how is that fair to Lucina fans? No other alt costume is a newcomer. Heck, Male WFT isn't Female WFT and he's just an alt, treated as an alt. Lucina is treated as a NEWCOMER, as such she should get a forum.

 

[Polo Fire]

I haven't gone on my computer but my phone clearly shows Lucina as a a newcomer.

 

[Kotor]

Well that's terrifying.

"Your death stare means nothing to me. I will defeat you and save the future!"

 

[UberMadman]

Wait, did they just remove Captain Falcon's subforum? It was there, right? So instead of giving Lucina one they took away Falcon's?

 

[ihskeyp]

I already saw her on the mobile. She's listed as a newcomer. What does that mean to you? That she's auto playable? Maybe she's listed as a technical newcomer because she just has a different name and different voice. Technically, Daisy was a newcomer as Peach's Alternate in Melee and Brawl(yes she's an alternate, different model, designs).



With this Logic, whenever Peach won in Daisy's costume the announcer should have yelled "DAISY" but didn't. Possibly the same for Marth/Lucina. I doubt it though, since this game is future they should recognize when an Alt is being used. We can assume when Wire Frame Mac wins the announcer might say "this games winner is... Wire Frame Mac!"



So are you telling me you have solid info on the development team saying they are incapable of creating different animations for some alternate costumes? A taunt can't be impossible to program into a individual costume slot.



Really, that's all I really need to QUESTION IT. But as you can see in previous post, there are many other reasons I would think so right down to being completely the same in ALL animations aside from taunts.

That last part is just putting words in my mouth.

Okay now your responses are ridiculous. Yes, her being listed as a newcomer and having her own spot on the site does mean she's playable and not an alt. and Daisy was never announced as a character for melee, just a skin and was referred to as peach anyway so that argument is pointless.