Lucas Stage Discussion Thread - Rediscussing: Castle Siege

[pianodude700]

I would note that I like using down smash a lot on any stage that has destroyable terrain because of the delayed come-out time. Using down smash on the platforms/statues in the 2nd stage of castle siege could be a deadly mind game. Just don't rely on it working too many times in a set. Overall the stage is dangerous for Lucas though. I wouldn't CP it except possibly against someone I could out camp and can't release grab/walk off me to death. Ike comes to mind.

(except no one uses Ike :-\)

But you never know Just things to keep in mind.

Overall a mediocre/bad stage.

 

[Chuee]

Yeah, watch out for the second part. The statues are great for dsmash though.

 

[Ono]

Okay, what are your guys' thoughts on the 1st and 3rd phases? I can't really think about much for them except recovery issues =/

 

[ZMan]

ban against ddd. 1st is pretty simple just watch out for the small lips. and on the 3rd tilting can potentially mess up recovery and autocanceling. all in all, i give it a 5.5/10

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i think the first section is ok, possible recovery issues aside. i've only really played Zelda here and it wasn't too bad since i just attempted to camp and hop around w/ Dair till the stage transforms. when standing on the left retreating Fair and camping seemed to work well. the 3rd section just feels like a tilting FD.

but im not much of a Lucas fan on CS either.

 

[Tyr_03]

Platform spacing is awful for Lucas. Recovery is awkward. If you have to play here, camp.

 

[Ono]

Bans: King Dedede, Marth, PT
Counterpicks: ??
Rating 5/10?
That sound right to everyone?

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Fine with me. I never go here anyway.

 

[soccerdude7200]

That sounds good
idk about counterpicks, but i try to avoid this stage...

 

[Ono]

Okay, next discussion is Halberd. I don't really know what to say on this stage. You can jump through the platform, so it helps you recover more, if they attempt to edgehog you. The platform gets annoying because of the lag you get if you full hop Dair.

 

[soccerdude7200]

good for recovery... if u mess up pkt2 you can still go through the stage.
Thundersliding...
Umm. pk fire still works sh'ed with the angle stage.
I think its good. i'd say 7/10 or 8/10

 

[Luur3]

I'm not sure about this one. Its a bit on the small side, but you can still do a bit of camping, we have a platform to aid with Usmashes and Thunderslides, and we can go through the floor during the air phase, so that can help recovery a bit

On the other hand, its a decent place for characters to chaingrab us, and I've had a few troubles with PKT recovering on the ship phase. Not sure about counterpicks/bans though

 

[HailCrest]

The ship's awful when fighting chaingrabbers. At the same time however, it's good for spacing. I like to camp when fighting chaingrabbers and we're on the ship.

The platforms allow attacking with SH Uair and thundersliding.

Both freeze and flash can go through the lasers. If I'm not wrong.

Lips of the stage (ship) are good for wallhugging.

When you're on the flying platform, the uneven level can be used for interesting PK fire techniques.

 

[Terra~]

Lips of the stage (ship) are good for wallhugging.

When you're on the flying platform, the uneven level can be used for interesting PK fire techniques.

This right here.

SH PK Fire from the middle is right in the face/legs of the character. If you move towards your opponent while doing it, you can land a little sooner thanks to the slightly elevated part.

The stage is favorable to PK Thunder in general.

8/10

 

[Ono]

Okay, how about counterpicks/bans?

 

[ZMan]

ban against snake, mk, and ddd.

 

[Ono]

Okay, next discussion Green Greens. There are platforms for thundersliding. But they're in a really weird position, and the blocks sometimes extend the platform. The incredibly small blast zones make it easy to kill and to get killed. If you fall in the small hole between the main platform and the side platform, make sure you wait a bit before doing PKT2. The blocks lead to infiinte chaingrabbing too.

My guess is to ban against GW, Ike, D3, Snake?
Counterpick against Lucario and MK? I'm not sure about MK since he can easily gimp you because of the low blast zones, and his SL and D-smash kill so easily on this stage.

 

[ZMan]

isn't green greens banned in most places? it is here.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

^

I was about to say that. I've never even played on the stage before lol.

 

[Ono]

Well, it is Counter/Banned. But, I guess we should do the ones that are legit first. Thanks
Okay, so Battlefield. Not much to it. Platforms are good for Lucas. Nothing special about this stage. Thoughts?

 

[pacmansays]

Yeah, I find its good to attack opponents on the platforms (like dash attack to fair) but the downside is Lucas is a bit vulnerable on the platforms himself...

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I seem to never do well on this stage... but since my friend mains R.O.B. I know that it's really bad for him

I'm guessing that the platforms are really good for thundersliding

It's easy to overshoot the stage with your recovery because you can land on the platform if your opponent tries to edgehog/predict you

 

[Sade]

I never liked this stage until recently. First of all, thundersliding is amazing on here, especially since it's a pretty small stage. As long as you don't make it predictable, then it could help advance your metagame. Second of all, if your opponent is on the ground floor, you can dair them up to the next platform and then follow up with a ftilt or something. Even if you miss, it's not that punishable really, because landing on the platform is fairly lagless. And landing on platforms can be beneficial sometimes if you're recovering and your opponent is on the edge trying to edgeguard you.

One of the problems with this stage is that it's harder to do dair > jab lock combos unless you're in the middle or edge, since the platforms block the way lol.

Although if you're fighting against someone like Marth, you're dead. That's not really a surprise though since he's god tier on BF.

 

[Ono]

I'm guessing to ban against Bowser, C. Falcon, Diddy K.?, Marth. What are you guys' thoughts on diddy kong?

 

[soccerdude7200]

i think its good against diddy cuz of the platforms.

anyways... i like bf. it gives pretty good options for pk fire stuff, thundersliding, usmash/utilt, fh nair to people on the platforms... idk. i say like 8/10

 

[Luur3]

Battlefield is a pretty decent stage for us. Plenty of Thunderslide options, platforms can reduce chaingrabs a bit, and a bit of help with safely using Usmash. Platform dropping gives PK fire a few more options. Overall, a decent map for Lucas. I'd use this on Diddy/chaingrabbers if Norfair or Brinstar is not an option

Might wanna ban this on DK, and maybe Snake (I'm guessing on Snake)

 

[Ono]

Okay, next is Frigate Orpheon. On the 1st phase...the right side has no edge, so you can get punished if you must recover from there. Both phases have platforms. The obvious counterpicks are ZSS, Olimar, and PT. Maybe DK, and Marth? I don't know about bans.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Ban against anyone who has a really good recovery because you lose one of your KO options on the stage because of the way it changes phases...

Don't get caught under the stage when the stage is changing phases, you'll lose a stock

The phase one platform isn't good for thundersliding, but is good for pressuring opponets for when they get back from the edge with Dsmash (I think)

In phase two I'm pretty sure the platform is good for thundersliding so that's good

When you hear the warning about to go off either get your opponet off the stage or get in the air to stay safe

 

[Rachmaninav89]

I would counterpick frigate against yoshi as well. If you come across fighting a yoshi haha. Yoshi has a chain grab so if you get caught in it it becomes a problem, but frigate has smaller platforms and makes it harder for yoshi to grab. Also since there is no right edge on the first phase it becomes very hard for yoshi to recover. during the phase changes too, it can really screw up yoshi if he's on the wrong side and it could easily take a stock out of him, if he loses his jumps and is in free fall. So this stage works pretty well against Yoshi.

 

[Sade]

Yup, I'd also have to agree with CPing this against Yoshi, since Yoshi can't recover or plank on the right side of the first Frigate Orpheon phase.

 

[soccerdude7200]

well the right side (phase 1) would be good against marth... you can punish the lag after his upB because their is not a ledge.
idk what else... i dunt have much experience on this stage.

 

[prOAPC]

phase 2 is annoying for sh pk fire, sh nair and grab

 

[Rachmaninav89]

Watch out during the second phase of the frigate because those lovely platforms that come up from the sede would be more than happy to take a stock from you if you do your pkt2 recovery and your pk thunder hits it. Kind of like Yoshi's Island with the platforms that come up. That's essentially the only real downfall of this map for lucas. But then you can zap jump which can really help.
DDD might be a good counterpick too because if you can get him on the right side you can pk thunder him and force him to use his up B recovery, and punish it with an up smash. and he will have to use it since there is no ledge on the right side. Also since the map has a moderately small platform, you won't get too much damage racked up from his chaingrab. I'm trying to think of more counterpicks at the moment haha.
Maybe ban against kirby since he can have a wonderful time floating around and this map favors aerial characters.

 

[Ono]

I'm guessing on Wario to ban against since his air game is too good. Kirby sounds like a good counterpick, but he isn't really bad on any stage lol. Dedede sounds pretty good, but the elevating platform on the 1st phase can cause a short "infinite" chaingrab. Rating 6 or 7/10? What're you guys' thoughts?

 

[Ono]

Okay, next is PS2. Personally, I hate this stage so much. The air stage messes me up. The electric stage is just annoying. Ice stage is not too bad. So, I'd like to hear the opinions about this stage from our fellow Lucases. All I can think about is PKT2 on ice stage for mindgames. No idea for counterpicks/bans.

 

[CRASHiC]

Yah man, dair plus bstick camp in the air stage all day yo.
Dsmash plus ice stage is rapppppe.
Upsmash plus conveor belt canceling out ending lag, making a large moving hitbox is the sex.

CP against people who don't like the air.
CP against a player who hates gay ****.

 

[prOAPC]

pkt2 in the ice stage is like a thunderslide

 

[Luur3]

Pokemon Stadium 2 is pretty good for us. The platforms allow for Thundersliding/PK Fire tricks, and the each change usually has something we can use

Ice Stage has easy Thundersliding on the ground, and a few platforms
Thunder stage's moving floors might allow for more Thundersliding (not sure on this)
Fire stage's hill can occasionally be used for a Ftilt lock. It looks escapeable though
Air stage is probably the worst for us. Maybe some PKT1 action if your opponent is in the air

overall, not too bad, but might want to keep away from air-heavy characters

 

[Zodiark]

VS Yoshi we should ban FD and counter Norfair .

On FD Yoshi can chaingrab you too easily and he can force us to approach with her eggs .
He can gimp our PK thunder with his Dair and then edgeguard us .
On Norfair Yoshi can't chain grab us over 2/3 times and the lava force him to approach.
If he sends any eggs , F-smash to reflect it , send a PK freeze over him while camping.
Use PKT Thundersliding to approach and own him .
When the capsule appears , we can D-throw to D-tilt lock himt inside and finish with a F-smash .

Sorry if there are some errors of English or another thing ^^

I do not arrive has to express me correctly u_u

 

[Ono]

We're not discussing counterpicking characters yet Zodiark, but thanks for the input.
So, counterpicks/bans? I have no idea how to work around this stage, so I'm gonna need some help on this one. =/
I'm guessing counterpicks are Wario, Squirtle, Marth?

EDIT: Oh, and rating? My guess is 6/10.