~Nasty~
Smash Lord
So lucas dropped one spot in the new tier list that was just released. Your thoughts? Oh, and Sonic went up like 8 spots and is now C-tier! Anyway, i was just curious what everyone thought about the placings. Discuss!
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Lucas' placing in the June Tier List
- Thread starter ~Nasty~
- Start date
lil cj
Smash Lord
I kinda thought Lucas would move up into bottom D tier
cause of Reflex's good representation with him in tournies
I was surprised he dropped
Same for Zelda...4 spots
Sheik even passed her up???
Glad that ZSS and Wario moved up...ZSS is B tier! and Wario is now 3rd and in the spot he deserves....Go Wario!
Marth moving down was a shock
Why didnt Falco move down lower???
And last but not least Sonic moving up 8
was the biggest surprise
I knew he had potential!
Lucas has that same potential....we jus havnt found it yet
cause of Reflex's good representation with him in tournies
I was surprised he dropped
Same for Zelda...4 spots
Sheik even passed her up???
Glad that ZSS and Wario moved up...ZSS is B tier! and Wario is now 3rd and in the spot he deserves....Go Wario!
Marth moving down was a shock
Why didnt Falco move down lower???
And last but not least Sonic moving up 8
was the biggest surprise
I knew he had potential!
Lucas has that same potential....we jus havnt found it yet
HAGGS
Smash Apprentice
I think it is awesome that Captain Falcon moved up 2 spots! lol
When Lucas moves down it is just more motivation for me to do well in tourneys.
When Lucas moves down it is just more motivation for me to do well in tourneys.
Dxt XXII
Smash Journeyman
As expected, Lucas didn't change much. Sonic moved up a lot. Everyone else is too slow.
shinrama
Smash Rookie
I'm still wondering how Captain Falcon moved up two spots. I mean, it's good for him, and he has combo potential, but his priority is still abysmal, to say the least.
Lucas moved down. *sadness*
Sonic moved way up. Great, that just means I can't hit it even more now.
I bet Link and Ganondorf are on a computer right now, raging somewhere.
Lucas moved down. *sadness*
Sonic moved way up. Great, that just means I can't hit it even more now.
I bet Link and Ganondorf are on a computer right now, raging somewhere.
I was pretty suprised Lucas moved down albeit by one spot. =( I was expecting him to be atleast spot 25 (Bowser has this) some Lucas's have been doing better.
Zelda went down. D= That was really sadening for me to see. Even Sheiky went passed her. Theirs just nothing new for her. >.>
Fox going up made me kind of happy. =) Japan makes him look good. xD im sure USA can make him look good to. xD
Pit didn't change a whole lot I like where he is. =)
In all im just depressed that Lucas and Zelda arent as high as they probably could be. I guess we will have to try harder.
Zelda went down. D= That was really sadening for me to see. Even Sheiky went passed her. Theirs just nothing new for her. >.>
Fox going up made me kind of happy. =) Japan makes him look good. xD im sure USA can make him look good to. xD
Pit didn't change a whole lot I like where he is. =)
In all im just depressed that Lucas and Zelda arent as high as they probably could be. I guess we will have to try harder.
heytallman
CTALL
Well, Lucas moved to be better than Mario, and is no longer tied with Ness. I thought Lucas was gonna go up at least one, but oh well. If Sonic had one more reliable kill move, he'd be higher, methinks.
So now Zelda, Bowser, and Ike can now compete in low tier events, apparently. At least, that's the ruleset Xyro used. Thoughts on this?
So now Zelda, Bowser, and Ike can now compete in low tier events, apparently. At least, that's the ruleset Xyro used. Thoughts on this?
lil cj
Smash Lord
Mellow and me think the same way about Lucas and Zelda
It makes me sad to see that
even the Zelda boards are doubting her
Ive been trying to convince them that Zelda isnt a bad character
Well as much as I hate for Zelda to be low tier....
Cause she is mid tier material!!!!!!!
She will most likely dominate low tier tournies
along with Ike and Lucas
Idk about Bowser
From what I hear he is pretty solid
But Ive never played one before
This brings back memories of the Bowser mains saying that he was better than Lucas...which is madness
Same for Ike mains
We will show them that Lucas is better
and doesnt deserve to be where he is now
Imo he is mid tier material
Sonic imo is just like Sheik
Has speed,gimping abilities, mind games, and not alot of kill moves
I can also see some similarities with MK too
I know it sounds crazy lol
But I think if Sonic plays like MK
he would be a force to be recogned with
and probably be high tier
Im not giving up on Lucas or Zelda
Im planning on going to more tournies
and try to rep both of them the best I can
With ZSS to back them up
And Im going to pick Sonic back up
He's a character that I think will take down MK one day
and everyone should keep their eyes on him
Just my thoughts
It makes me sad to see that
even the Zelda boards are doubting her
Ive been trying to convince them that Zelda isnt a bad character
Well as much as I hate for Zelda to be low tier
....Cause she is mid tier material!!!!!!!
She will most likely dominate low tier tournies
along with Ike and Lucas
Idk about Bowser
From what I hear he is pretty solid
But Ive never played one before
This brings back memories of the Bowser mains saying that he was better than Lucas...which is madness
Same for Ike mains
We will show them that Lucas is better
and doesnt deserve to be where he is now
Imo he is mid tier material
Sonic imo is just like Sheik
Has speed,gimping abilities, mind games, and not alot of kill moves
I can also see some similarities with MK too
I know it sounds crazy lol
But I think if Sonic plays like MK
he would be a force to be recogned with
and probably be high tier
Im not giving up on Lucas or Zelda
Im planning on going to more tournies
and try to rep both of them the best I can
With ZSS to back them up
And Im going to pick Sonic back up
He's a character that I think will take down MK one day
and everyone should keep their eyes on him
Just my thoughts
lil cj
Smash Lord
Theres been alot of new discoveries for ZSS lately
She has a buffered dash attack lock on most of the cast, new things with nair, and footstool techniques
Her plasma whip can be a brick wall on anyone she can outcamp with correct spacing
Also she only has 4 bad matchups
Falco,G&W,Sheik, and MK
The reason she moved up so high is because
not alot of people know how to fight her
But now that shes higher people will catch on
So she will mostly likely move down
PT I agree should be higher
Squirtle has proved himself worthy
She has a buffered dash attack lock on most of the cast, new things with nair, and footstool techniques
Her plasma whip can be a brick wall on anyone she can outcamp with correct spacing
Also she only has 4 bad matchups
Falco,G&W,Sheik, and MK
The reason she moved up so high is because
not alot of people know how to fight her
But now that shes higher people will catch on
So she will mostly likely move down
PT I agree should be higher
Squirtle has proved himself worthy
heytallman
CTALL
Squirtle is high tier.
Anyone think they should rank each individual Pokemon? Some tournaments may use codes for Pokemon not getting tired and not changing when they die. I know codes will never be viable, but it would be interesting to see where each individual Pokemon ranks. They shouldn't effect tiers at all, but rather they should be like "this is where Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard would be if they were each separate characters"
Also, now that Zelda, Ike, and Sheik are low tier, they will probably move more. Ike could possibly move back up to mid tier if he just starts DOMINATING at low tier stuff, or Zelda might move a bit further down....who knows.
Anyone think they should rank each individual Pokemon? Some tournaments may use codes for Pokemon not getting tired and not changing when they die. I know codes will never be viable, but it would be interesting to see where each individual Pokemon ranks. They shouldn't effect tiers at all, but rather they should be like "this is where Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard would be if they were each separate characters"
Also, now that Zelda, Ike, and Sheik are low tier, they will probably move more. Ike could possibly move back up to mid tier if he just starts DOMINATING at low tier stuff, or Zelda might move a bit further down....who knows.
Super Shadow Brawler 99
Smash Apprentice
I think more people should represent Lucas more. The people that already are are doing a good job, but could really push it further. I was really surprised Ness dropped below Lucas because I expected him to pass up him, but I guess he is not better than Lucas after all.
Sonic moving up 8 spots is really something. glad to see people playing with him again
Sonic moving up 8 spots is really something. glad to see people playing with him again
Levitas
the moon
That's pretty bad. 3/4 of those are gonna be seen at pretty much every tournament.
orange/xd
Smash Ace
I thought Lucas would have moved up into low D tier.
lil cj
Smash Lord
Oops my bad...
She ***** G&W 60-40 lol
Its just Falco,Sheik, and MK
Out of those Sheik is her worst imo
and you never see Sheik's at tournies lol
MK matchup is 40-60 thats not too bad
And Falco is 30-70
She'll be bottom of A tier in the next tier list
She's a solid character
Back to Lucas...
I dont think he will move down any more after this
Maybe he will move up 2-3 spots
If more people use him in tournies from now on
Does anyone agree that he's mid tier material??
Super Shadow Brawler 99
Smash Apprentice
definitely lil cj, Lucas and Ness both have a chance to move up almost as much as Sonic did. They need to be represented more IMO
Man of Popsicle
Smash Lord
But ganondorf sucks, and has like three 5-95 match-ups.
GotenOnNimbus
Smash Apprentice
In the right hands, he can be mediocre.
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
you guys really need to SH Nair into Ftilts and Fsmashes more. I guarantee if every Lucas starts doing that he will move up significatly.
lil cj
Smash Lord
I do that sometimes...maybe I should start doing it more
I mostly utilt, jab or do another nair
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Sheik and Falco are easily her worst, though she has tricks that can help her beat both.Oops my bad...
She ***** G&W 60-40 lol
Its just Falco,Sheik, and MK
Out of those Sheik is her worst imo
and you never see Sheik's at tournies lol
MK matchup is 40-60 thats not too bad
And Falco is 30-70
She'll be bottom of A tier in the next tier list
She's a solid character
Back to Lucas...
I dont think he will move down any more after this
Maybe he will move up 2-3 spots
If more people use him in tournies from now on
Does anyone agree that he's mid tier material??
Snakeee, the most well known ZSS, considers the MK matchup nearly even, though it takes a lot of work and experience to know the matchup that well. Snakeee's brother is Shadow, one of the best MKs, so we generally consider his opinion spot on when it comes to MK.
And ya GaW is very easy.
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
jabbing works too. I find that grabbing and jabbing the best options for shield spammers and the others are just good follow-ups. I think Nair is Lucas' best move and should be readily spammed.
It's interesting. This tier list seems to have been created almost entirely based on how each character does against Metaknight.
Wario gained his huge boost because people started to realize that he goes even with MK. King Dedede barely made it into S tier and only did because of Inui from what I've heard. I have a feeling that has something to do with how he has trouble against MK. I really feel like ZSS got a boost because she does decently well against MK compared to those around her on the tier list.
I honestly feel that Lucas got moved above Ness because he does better against MK than he does.
I guess it's an exageration to say that the tier list is based entirely off the MK matchup but I think it's pretty clear that it had a good bit to do with the SBR's decisions. Recent hype about MK getting banned and then M2K's defeat by Lain, Ally and more recently, Fiction, along with the rapid decline in the belief that MK should be banned naturally would affect people's choices.
While it makes a lot of sense to judge characters to an extent based on how they do against Metaknight, I feel like it held too much weight for this tier list simply because of recent events. In some cases, it almost feels like even if characters get completely ***** by other common tournament characters like Snake, Marth or King Dedede, they still got boosts if they can handle Metaknight. This is one of the biggest reasons that I feel like Mario should be above Lucas in the tier list. Lucas's bad matchup against Marth (a very common tournament character) makes him overall less tournament viable in my opinion. Pokemon Trainer holds enormous potential as a counter against characters like Falco and didn't get the boost that I really feel like he deserves.
I have a feeling the next tier list will have some pretty major shifts. I think it's even possible that Snake might take Metaknight's place as the best character in the game again. The results of Genesis will likely play a major role in this.
Wario gained his huge boost because people started to realize that he goes even with MK. King Dedede barely made it into S tier and only did because of Inui from what I've heard. I have a feeling that has something to do with how he has trouble against MK. I really feel like ZSS got a boost because she does decently well against MK compared to those around her on the tier list.
I honestly feel that Lucas got moved above Ness because he does better against MK than he does.
I guess it's an exageration to say that the tier list is based entirely off the MK matchup but I think it's pretty clear that it had a good bit to do with the SBR's decisions. Recent hype about MK getting banned and then M2K's defeat by Lain, Ally and more recently, Fiction, along with the rapid decline in the belief that MK should be banned naturally would affect people's choices.
While it makes a lot of sense to judge characters to an extent based on how they do against Metaknight, I feel like it held too much weight for this tier list simply because of recent events. In some cases, it almost feels like even if characters get completely ***** by other common tournament characters like Snake, Marth or King Dedede, they still got boosts if they can handle Metaknight. This is one of the biggest reasons that I feel like Mario should be above Lucas in the tier list. Lucas's bad matchup against Marth (a very common tournament character) makes him overall less tournament viable in my opinion. Pokemon Trainer holds enormous potential as a counter against characters like Falco and didn't get the boost that I really feel like he deserves.
I have a feeling the next tier list will have some pretty major shifts. I think it's even possible that Snake might take Metaknight's place as the best character in the game again. The results of Genesis will likely play a major role in this.
Plasma Pikmin
Smash Apprentice
Now that Tyr says that, I do kinda have to agree, and I do notice what he's saying.
Mario moving below Lucas is kinda sad really, and Ness moving down isn't as bad, but still has something to do vs. MK. Sonic moving up 8 spots.....seriously....? Some of this could be based off of tourny results, but it does seem to have a lot to do about MK.
Like Tyr mentioned, ZSS and Lucas moving up are good examples. Yoshi moved up a spot because he goes nearly even against MK. Ganon now moving to be the worst character in the game is just sad. CF moved up 2 spots, above Link and Ganon, and he does better against MK than they do. Link should be against CF. PT always did have potential, like Tyr said.
Wario is a good character, but he still goes even with MK. And now he's the 3rd best character in the game. Pikachu, though, is probably the best example. Pikachu is a good character, and his new CGs are good, but Pikachu goes even with MK too, mainly because of the CG he has on MK to like 60% or something like that.
It is not based off entirely of the MK Matchup, but it does play a big role. You have to give other tourney common characters, like Marth and Falco, some credit too. Tbh, I thought that PT would go up higher. Typh has been doing a great job at tournies.
Yeah, next tier list is going to be another big upset too, just like this one.
Mario moving below Lucas is kinda sad really, and Ness moving down isn't as bad, but still has something to do vs. MK. Sonic moving up 8 spots.....seriously....? Some of this could be based off of tourny results, but it does seem to have a lot to do about MK.
Like Tyr mentioned, ZSS and Lucas moving up are good examples. Yoshi moved up a spot because he goes nearly even against MK. Ganon now moving to be the worst character in the game is just sad. CF moved up 2 spots, above Link and Ganon, and he does better against MK than they do. Link should be against CF. PT always did have potential, like Tyr said.
Wario is a good character, but he still goes even with MK. And now he's the 3rd best character in the game. Pikachu, though, is probably the best example. Pikachu is a good character, and his new CGs are good, but Pikachu goes even with MK too, mainly because of the CG he has on MK to like 60% or something like that.
It is not based off entirely of the MK Matchup, but it does play a big role. You have to give other tourney common characters, like Marth and Falco, some credit too. Tbh, I thought that PT would go up higher. Typh has been doing a great job at tournies.
Yeah, next tier list is going to be another big upset too, just like this one.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
I think it's fair to say the matchups at the top are really the only ones affecting tier placement. DDD is really the only exception, since he hangs with the top because he is considered to make 1/2 the cast unviable. However, when you look at the top 7, you better not have more than 2-3 bad matchups or, hate to say it, you are unviable.
ZSS's only bad matchup in the top is Falco, and it's becoming slightly better, depending on how effective certain things we recently found are against him in practice.
ZSS's only bad matchup in the top is Falco, and it's becoming slightly better, depending on how effective certain things we recently found are against him in practice.