Lucas or Ness?

[Blacksharkey]

I think they both got up and downsides, like lucas his PK-Thunder goes through people and Ness his PK-Fire deals more damage i think...
It's ur own choise...

 

[Finding Waldo]

Having the PK fire hold the foe in place is an advantage indeed...

 

[~rh]

Ness is the best. His PK setups are really fun to get nubs trapped in.

 

[Finding Waldo]

So far, it seems like it is simply a matter of preference to each person's own fighting style. So I suppose that Sakurai did do a good job with these two.

 

[~rh]

^ Apparently so.

 

[KoJ]

You like aerials? Choose Ness.

You like good ground moves? Choose Lucas.

You like good range? Choose both.

You like good specials? Choose both (No, seriously. Sure, PK Thunder>PK TUNDER, and Lucas has a better psi magnet, but Ness has the PK pillar, and PK Flash>PK Freeze).

Who's better? I personally believe Ness is slightly better, but who knows? Just choose air or ground games.

 

[the Lexx]

So far, it seems like it is simply a matter of preference to each person's own fighting style. So I suppose that Sakurai did do a good job with these two.

Too bad they're both mid tier at best. Good job Sakurai!

 

[Finding Waldo]

Maybe he gives his favorite characters a little boost (Meta Knight, say?), but Mid Tier is better than low tier.

 

[mariofanpm12]

On a general outlook, Lucas. He's stronger in almost every attack, his PK Thunder hits foes, he runs faster, PSI Magnet can hurt foes, and Human Missile inflicts up to 43% damage. However, Ness still has his own small differences that make him good, too. These differences make him a bit more technical than Lucas.

Though he has less range and power, his attacks are generally faster.
PK Thunder is easier to control, and you're gauranteed a solid 20-25% hit, unlike Lucas.
PK Fire opens opportunity for combos
PSI Magnet covers him on all sides

And there are, of course, other differences, but I won't go into detail.

 

[Sora Master2.0]

I'ma say Ness. Ness has a stronger PK Missile(When he hits himself with PK thunder). His PK Fire is better. I belevie his > Smash is stronger. Up and down smashes cover both sides. His magnet also covers both sides.

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

PSI Magnet covers him on all sides

That's not really a big plus for Ness. Lucas instantly turns around if a projectiles about to hit him from the back.

My personal opinion is that lucas is the better of the two, but I'm a lucas main so my opinion will be kind of bias.

Honestly, this is kind of like comparing DK to bowser. They don't really have THAT much in common (fighting-style wise)

EDIT: Sora master, Lucas's Down and Up smash also hit on both sides.

 

[Iddy]

Obviously people will have their preferences for one or the other as they fight very differently, but to say Lucas is inherently a superior character to Ness is wrong. (And vice-versa I suppose, although that perspective seems to be less common due to Ness not having the same apparrent legions of adoring fans...)

Anyway, both have their own strengths and weaknesses when compared directly, and I hope this extremely detailed thread by Earthbound360 can lend a little objectivity to this discussion.

'Ness vs. Lucas: The character comparison thread'
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171897

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Lucas is definitely better than Ness in pretty much every aspect. It's much harder to gimp Lucas's recovery since his PK Thunder is easier to control and can go through opponents. Plus, every smash attack he has delivers a powerful knockback, even if they're pretty laggy.

 

[Chaos F-15]

I prefer Ness over Lucas. I'm not saying I hate Lucas, it's just that my play style fits with Ness better than Lucas. But, hey, it's my opinion.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Lucas. He's a lot less predictable, has an insane Usmash, and he's AMERICAN. Which is odd, considering Ness is the more japanese one, yet his game was here, yet Lucas is more American, and his game has yet to see american soil.

 

[PCHU]

I alternate between the two.
Can't make up my mind, they're both insane.
My Lycas has done more 'combos' than my Ness has, but my Ness is the awesomeness.
I haven't tried out my Lucas against any good players (no offense to Juniortoons if he's reading this), but I must say that Lucas has some potential.
I mean, he's got some nice and quick KO moves, and he's got a nice little dthrow to bair that I like to use.

All in all, they're both good, it depends on how you use them.

 

[mariofanpm12]

To those who say Lucas's D-Smash covers both sides, it doesn't.

Also, Lucas's Human Missile has variable power. Soemtimes its weaker or stronger than Ness's, depending on how many hits you score.

 

[Ubadood]

Lucas.......He's my fav character........

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

To those who say Lucas's D-Smash covers both sides, it doesn't.

Also, Lucas's Human Missile has variable power. Soemtimes its weaker or stronger than Ness's, depending on how many hits you score.

It DOES hit on both sides. The hitbox is very small, but it exists :/


Hey guys, Apples or Oranges? Apples are better up close and is best played aggressively with its hard inners while Oranges should consern themselves with spacing due to there citrus juice.

Verdict: Lots of fruits here like both and there isn't much of a clear better.

 

[mariofanpm12]

It DOES hit on both sides. The hitbox is very small, but it exists :/


Hey guys, Apples or Oranges? Apples are better up close and is best played aggressively with its hard inners while Oranges should consern themselves with spacing due to there citrus juice.

Verdict: Lots of fruits here like both and there isn't much of a clear better.

True enough. Most people will just main whoever they like best or whoever fits their playstyle. Others will let the Tier List decide. Others don't care.

I say we just end this arguement here, but that's just my opinion.

 

[PCHU]

Well, I think dsmash is great for people who love to roll everywhere.
And when they spotdodge, it catches them at the end.
The duration is AMAZING, and it's extremely useful for stopping defensive opponents.

I know this has nothing to do with the Apples/ Oranges, but I think that Lucas has an awesome dsmash.

Ness's can be used for the same purpose, but Lucas has more KO power with his.

 

[MarthTrinity]

Ness' grab is crazy fast in Brawl so a PK Fire to down grab combo is alawys useful plus it's hard to DI out of PK Fire at low percents. Ness' dair is a 0% killer if used off the stage and his bair is lethal AND quick. His fair is useful for racking up damage as well as pushing foes away and his bat is an amazing KO move. While his Up Smash isn't going to be your best bet for a KO move, it's good for keeping foes in the air and is relatively fast. PK Freeze moves faster than PK Flash but they're both equally useful/useless and are both very situational. Ness' PK Thunder, while easily gimped, does TREMENDOUS knockback if struck with Ness himself and the PK Thunder itself can be used to set up for an uair juggle...so I'd say Ness for sure, most of Lucas' moves are just too laggy...

 

[Lord Viper]

Ness becasuse of his gansta Mr. Satran shrit and purple cap. XD

But fo real, because I **** hard with Ness. I'm keen with all his move's and beat just about all his bad and good match's. Even though he's my third best, (with Kirby and Ice Climbers being my top best) I treat his D-Air will and my foe's know it. X)

 

[mariofanpm12]

The war continues...

So I'll keep fighting!

I say Ness is better simply due to more technical of a playstyle. Lucas has laggy attacks.

However, Lucas could be considered better simply because he is stronger, has more range on some attacks (but not others) and can KO easier. Id' say all his Specials except his PK Fire are better than Ness.

 

[PCHU]

The war continues...

So I'll keep fighting!

I say Ness is better simply due to more technical of a playstyle. Lucas has laggy attacks.

However, Lucas could be considered better simply because he is stronger, has more range on some attacks (but not others) and can KO easier. Id' say all his Specials except his PK Fire are better than Ness.

Muh, Lucas is pretty awesome.
I mean, most people don't expect the bair spike, and it can be used to set up loads of stuff.
I got in this 'combo' (more like a string of moves) that lead up to 68%, and they were all in a fluid motion.
It was with Lucas, and I'm pretty sure I did the same thing with Ness.

Ness is better for aerials, but if you want both, you're gonna go with Lucas.

I use both Ness and Lucas.
WHY NOT ALTERNATE?
It's the freakin' best of both worlds!
Even though we're all on the same freakin' planet!
FREAKIN' MAZIN', HUH?!

Seriously, there are four choices in the grand scheme of life.
A) Ness
B) Lucas
C) None of the above
D) Pie
I personally like D, but there's a hidden fifth choice called BOTH.
Use it.

 

[Finding Waldo]

I suppose those would be the only choices in this thread.

But there are always Falco and Meta Knight, but they do not belong here.

 

[KoJ]

Lucas is definitely better than Ness in pretty much every aspect.

No. Ness clearly has better Air game. There's no way to deny that. He also has better throws, and (In my opinion) a slightly better grab.

It's much harder to gimp Lucas's recovery since his PK Thunder is easier to control and can go through opponents.

One advantage over Ness.

Plus, every smash attack he has delivers a powerful knockback, even if they're pretty laggy.

Bowser, anyone?

Both Ness and Lucas have their strengths. However, Lucas fans seem to think he's better in every way, which is not true.

Ness is a better comboer, thrower, and has amazing aerial game and spikes.

 

[Professional Idiot]

There are more instances in Mother 3 than Mother 2 where you can walk around with your pajamas on and with messy hair.

.'. Lucas wins. (Yes, I used the "therefore" symbol. Deal with it.)

 

[~rh]

I have never seen that in my life, lol.

And your sig is relevant to my interests. And this thread's interests as well.

.'. it is badass.

lol

 

[Professional Idiot]

I have never seen that in my life, lol.

And your sig is relevant to my interests. And this thread's interests as well.

.'. it is badass.

lol

Wow, I never thought someone would actually know chaos when they see it. Lorenz-84 attractor for the win!

And to keep this on-topic, I also like Lucas' abundance of hexagons in comparison to Ness'.

 

[Kiki52]

Lucas. He's a lot less predictable, has an insane Usmash, and he's AMERICAN. Which is odd, considering Ness is the more japanese one, yet his game was here, yet Lucas is more American, and his game has yet to see american soil.

Uhh I have to disagree with you right there.
Ness is not Japanese like a lot of people seem to think. He is white/Caucasian in Earthbound canon, but you might think he is Japanese due to his dark hair. But his mom and sister both are blondes (and I doubt he was adopted because a cutscene in Earthbound shown he was in a crib born from his blonde mother).

I like Ness better though. It was really horrible when people like Vesperview was around and others being such Lucas fanboys hoping for Ness to be cut. Thankfully, a lot of Ness fans have good common sense like Earthbound360 to be impartial to both. PKSkyler made a good comment about the differences between Lucas and Ness. They aren't really better than one another, just different.

If Sakurai or Itoi thought it was fun to have Ness and Lucas lovers bash each other, then I hate both of them. Itoi is wrong to think it is good to alienate former fans of a series with each game he makes. That is probably why MOTHER never had that many sales in either the US or Japan in the first place.

 

[Gooberly]

I guess i use Lucas more because i like using new characters, but i love PK thundering smash balls, and Ness's is faster than Lucas's so its easier. So I'm caught between them.

 

[Giga Wario]

KiKi52, he's talking about their voice actors. Lucas' is American, whilst Ness' is Japanese, ironically.

 

[Brinzy]

You know, once you start playing the two of them for a while, you realize that they're hardly comparable outside of similar PK attacks, and even then, the purposes those PK attacks serve are vastly different.

I won't really compare the two, though I will say that one day, I just stopped playing Lucas completely. I found my playstyle and Ness fit me a lot, lot more... and I actually won more fights with him. Then I began to secondary another character who I liked a lot more than Lucas and... yeah, he just left.

But yeah, as I said, outside of their B moves, they really aren't comparable.

 

[PCHU]

You know, once you start playing the two of them for a while, you realize that they're hardly comparable outside of similar PK attacks, and even then, the purposes those PK attacks serve are vastly different.

I won't really compare the two, though I will say that one day, I just stopped playing Lucas completely. I found my playstyle and Ness fit me a lot, lot more... and I actually won more fights with him. Then I began to secondary another character who I liked a lot more than Lucas and... yeah, he just left.

But yeah, as I said, outside of their B moves, they really aren't comparable.

Happened to me.
I like RECENTLY picked up Lucas, and found him unexpectedly good.
I never found myself getting more kills, but I like his style.

When playing an online match the other day, I found out something.
Either this guy was a n00b, or I was just good.
Dude grabbed a hammer and started towards me.
I grabbed him immediately and started wailing on him.
Before he could get in another hit, I grabbed him again and continued the PWNage.
He basically wasted that whole hammer because he couldn't get away, or hit me.
It was really awesome.
Of course, PK Fire works, but I think the "GET OVER HERE" aspect is way cooler.

Lucas has surprise spikes (dair is weak, but nobody really expects it).
Bair is just wicked when it's landed, and so is Ness's (STAY THE HECK DOWN THERE).
I think I like Lucas's attack chains, but Ness's are pretty cool too.

If you want up close and personal, pick Ness.
But if you want the surprises and space, Lucas is your answer.

Alternate for better matchups.
They're both insane when used correctly, but there are good and bad matchups for both.
Knowing who to pick in certain situations could be crucial to your game.

And Hexagons rock.
But so do sweetspots

 

[SirKibble]

WARNING: IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS AHEAD -- KIND OF LONG

Let's take this piece by piece, as they obviously both have some advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I'm a Ness fan, but I'll try to be fair.

Standard Attacks
Standard Combo -- We'll call this one a draw, since they're pretty much the same.

Forward Tilt -- Eh... Again, hard to say either is much better than the other.

Up Tilt -- Once again...

Down Tilt -- Ness has a faster D-Tilt, but... I'm sure Lucas has something on him here. I'd need a Lucas fan to tell me what, though.

Dash Attack -- Hmm... I think Ness has this one. Multiple hits and great for an approach. Sure Lucas has a stronger Dash Attack, and it's great, but I think Ness' just has a bit more use.

Smash Attacks
Side Smash -- All right, both of these are killer moves. Both being relatively powerful, I think I'm gonna have to give the advantage here to the faster one. Lucas takes this.

Up Smash -- Lucas just has too much lag on this one. Power is great, but it takes FOREVER. Besides... YO-YO SPIKE!

Down Smash -- Both characters have great Down Smash attacks, but I think Lucas has the edge here. Triple hit and quite powerful, the Yo-Yo just doesn't have the oomph to pull through, although it does hit to both sides, which is obviously nice.

Aerials
Neutral Air -- Despite that Ness has great aerials, I think this one might go to Lucas. The multi-hit is just too cool.

Up Air -- They're pretty similar, but I generally find Ness's a lot easier to land. Don't know if that's just me, but in any case, I'm giving this one to Ness.

Down Air -- Ness's is just too good. Sorry, Lucas.

Forward Air -- Again, Lucas just can't compete here. Ness has a real solid air game.

Backward Air -- Wow... Both characters excel here, but Lucas's kick is a bit harder to make the most of. In this case, the sweetspot beats out the spike for sheer ease of use, not to mention it comes out quicker.

Grab/Throw
Grab -- Lucas has range, but like anyone who does, that means if you miss, you're seriously vulnerable. Gotta give Ness this one.

Pummel -- Haven't played with Lucas's enough to be able to call one better than the other.

Forward Throw -- Ness clearly excels in this category.

Backward Throw -- Lucas cannot grasp the true form of Ness's B-Throw.

Up Throw -- Man, Ness really owns this department, doesn't he?

Down Throw -- To make Lucas feel better here, I'll say this one's close and call it a draw, even though... Yeah.

Specials
Standard Special -- Both are so situational, neither can really be said to be better. But I still say PK Kaboom > PK Snowflake.

Up Special -- Ness's PK Thunder is clearly better on the offensive front, both in terms of juggling power and launching himself into opponents. However, it's gimpability as a recovery makes these two attacks also rather difficult to call a clear winner on.

Down Special -- Yeah, I gotta give Lucas this one. Ness's has what... It's a little bigger? Lucas's extends further to the right and left, has damaging capabilities (the push effect on Ness's is so lame), and unlike I originally thought it would when I saw it, it does not leave him vulnerable from the back. Yeah, Lucas takes this one.

Side Special -- This one's the topic of heated debate, no pun intended. Fans of either character will flame (no pun intended) anyone with the opposing viewpoint. While the power and knockback of Lucas's PK Fiyah are something to marvel at, Ness can easily combo into a grab and throw with his. Now, take into consideration that Ness's also travels at a downward angle while he's in the air (where he excels), and like I said, he can combo into a grab at low to moderate percentages. Remember that Ness also won in the throw department. So... Although I may be a little biased here... Ness gets this one.

Final Smash -- PEE-KAY...... STARSTORM PRETTY MUCH SAME ATTACK!!!!!! Yeah, not much more to say about this one.


So all in all... Yeah, it doesn't really matter. You just use who you like better, and that's that, and it's cool. That's the whole point.

 

[Wölf]

As a DeDeDe mainer, Lucas players give me a headache, whereas Ness is no competition. Therefore, I guess I prefer Ness. Lucas' spammy PK Thunder is too good; it can hit you multiple times whereas Ness's stops after one hit.


But to play, I'd prefer Lucas.

 

[Iddy]

@ SirKibble

Wow, impressive analysis, and I agree with pretty much every point you made there. I just hope people actually take the time to read it.

 

[PCHU]

Lucas thunder is better.
Easier to leave a 'shocking' impression rather than a sacrificial one, wouldn't you say?

 

[PKSkyler]

Lucas thunder is better.
Easier to leave a 'shocking' impression rather than a sacrificial one, wouldn't you say?

Im not so sure, they both work differently, Lucas` works well but it ussually hits once worth about 20% damage, while if you hit with Ness` it pops them up for more juggling, this way you can rack up damage by keeping them in the air with tailwhipping and all sorts of thunder skills. Plus its faster. Finally Ness` PKT2 is much better (as terms of an attack. Lucas wins for recovery.)