Lucas, Miiverse Stage, And Splatoon Costumes Available June 14th!

[allison]

"Falcon and Samus must be clones, too, huh?"
One similar move. I listed several that Lucas and Ness have with minimalistic differences in properties.

"And Dr. Mario is not a clone of Luigi because Luigi isn't a clone of Mario."
Doc's d-special resembles the Luigi cyclone, so I attributed his clone properties to both Luigi and Mario; this is not an uncommon observation. Are you trying to deny that Doc is a clone?

"Lucas' stick does not function like Ness' bat because Ness' bat is stronger at the tip and reflects projectiles, while Lucas' does not."
You can clearly see Lucas reflect a projectile with his stick in the trailer; you should watch it sometime. And again, minimalistic property differences like sweetspot positions do not help defend your position. Marth's sweetspot was the tip of his sword in Melee, while Roy's was at the handle... Does that mean that they weren't clones?

"And that wasn't his down air that spiked, that was his back air"
I'll admit defeat here, for now, but I'm more curious to know how you picked up on this but not the reflective properties of the stick. Both were in the trailer... And when Lucas is playable, we will see whether their dairs are similar. Until then, continue fanboying over paid DLC as Sakurai leans back in his seat from laughter over releasing a clone/semi-clone that people will actually purchase.

I assume you will try to argue that Roy is not a Marth/Lucina clone when he is revealed. Oh, boy. I can taste the salt already.

Ah, clone arguments. Whether or not Lucas is a clone, semi clone, or unique character depends entirely on semantics. If nothing else, I'd say that Lucas is unique enough to justify a purchase (unlike, say, Dark Pit). I plan to buy all DLC characters released anyway so I can have the full roster...

Also, we don't know that Roy will have anything in common with Marth/Lucina's movesets.

 

[SHiFT_]

Ah, clone arguments. Whether or not Lucas is a clone, semi clone, or unique character depends entirely on semantics. If nothing else, I'd say that Lucas is unique enough to justify a purchase (unlike, say, Dark Pit). I plan to buy all DLC characters released anyway so I can have the full roster...

Also, we don't know that Roy will have anything in common with Marth/Lucina's movesets.

It's quite possible that he will closely resemble his Melee build, just as Mewtwo was engineered in this installment. That would be a nice touch, but it would unfortunately cause him to remain a clone.

And anyone who still thinks that Mewtwo is a Lucario clone should go back to Brawl.

 

[Iceweasel]

Good luigi, pikachu, shiek, and rosalina all need to be nerfed hard just like diddy

Luigi, yes. Sheik, definitely yes. Pikachu? Well, maybe. Rosalina? Sure, she's good, but you can't use her well unless you put a lot of work in.

We need buffs far more than nerfs. The Mewtwo patch nerfed a lot of things that didn't need nerfing, increasing the divide between the top-tier characters and the low-tiers. Sakurai seems to think that an overall balanced character having one or two really strong options makes that character OP.

 

[ChikoLad]

Except maybe Sheik? Really? She takes more skill than all the others probably....
Good luck killing a player as good as you without putting him over 160%....
Just like you said before, If you're losing to Sheik players, it's always because they are just way better at the game than you.



It's not like they cannot just remove her AT and maybe put a new one in its place....
I just wish they would do that

Sheik really doesn't need amazing KO moves because she can combo and edge guard like there's no tomorrow.

She's definitely the easiest of the top tiers to use. Kinda feeds into why she's often touted as the most recommendable character in the game.

Rosalina's tips say that Luma can be controlled when she's grabbed, which isn't true either. Also, one of the tips incorrectly states that killing Metal Face gives KO credit. These could use another look for the update.

Luma can be controlled when Rosalina is grabbed. You can still pull off attacks with him. It's when she's THROWN is when he stops taking inputs. So the tip isn't lying, though this was a change made in the 1.0.4 patch for 3DS (Luma used to be able to attack during throw animations, but they removed that).

 

[CrossoverMan]

It took me a few seconds to realise the pun in the intro card next to Lucas in his trailer when I first watched it, and then I giggled uncontrollably.

 

[ChikoLad]

The first paragraph could apply to Fox in Melee.

If Melee was patchable I'd nerf his furry butt instantly without a second thought.

A character taking skill shouldn't be relevant to balance. Same with a character being easier or harder.

Metaknight actually takes some skill to actually play at a top level, same with fox in Melee. But as you agree balance would nerf both is possible.

Some players think Rosa is too strong, I have no opinion at this time, do you think she isn't a top tier character? If she is, that is why some people think she might need toning, like she has been in every patch.

Now, too tier =/= doesn't mean must nerf and we okay musical chairs in the top tier seat like WoW does with classes. Only if in perspective with the cast if she is too strong.

Shiek fits this in smash 4, IMO, where she is a tad too strong. Rosa I'm not as sure. My opinion though.

Some players like Zero have said she needs it though.

The problem with people getting overzealous with asking for patches though is that the meta then becomes dictated by patches. Gone is the need to get good with your character, just wait for Sakurai and his team to nerf the ones that give you problems.

I see people saying top tiers should be nerfed all of the time, but there is never any good reason given for it. Why should Sheik be nerfed? What should be nerfed about Rosalina? (also worth mentioning that these characters have seen quite a bit of fine tuning as it is, and you have to think about it from the perspective of players of those characters - I know I don't want to deal with constant changes to my characters).

The meta is still very young, even for some of the top tiers (like Rosalina), so there is no reason for these nerfs to even happen right now. If anything, low tiers or characters with really polarising MUs should be fine-tuned to fix some of their problems.

 

[Mochamico]

What do you think they'll do with the patch?

I honestly hope Sonic is nerfed in a way, less flowchart spindash-into-up aerial/neautral air stuff.

I also hope PAC-MAN finally gets a kill move that isn't his smash attacks or his side b when landed right.

 

[Kerpy Derp]

@ ChikoLad I disagree that rosaluma takes skill to play her yes she is harder to use than some others but she isn't nearly as good as the ice climbers or takes as much skill.

 

[incrediblej]

Honestly everyone is just complaining because now we can do patches and the people who want nerfs are just being immature because they can't handle learning a characters matchup. Sheik relies on speed so you just need to be patient and her combos are mostly based around airiels(not sure), you still have to be wary when using her because you can die easier especially against with someone with good kill power and decent speed (feel free to correct me on anything about sheik). Rosa not sure but I say someone fast or can attack with some good range like a sword character or take care of Luma easily(I don't bother much with Rosa so feel free to correct me on any of that). Luigi from what I've heard just gotta be wary of his down throw, fireballs, tornado for mobility, his forward air, and his sweet spot on jump punch its your fault if that happens.

So everyone should request buffs if you want a more balanced game or else this will be brawl all over again like all the negative smash players and melee elites said(I said elitists not players).
if nerfs keep coming everyone is gonna get kills only over 160% and this will be brawl 4.0 (2.0 anything not being as fast as melee, 3.0 no "true combos", 4.0 because insane percents and this is all according to not me) honestly buffs would be the only way to go and would make the game faster allowing it to be easier to make the rules 3 stock 6 min sound much better than it already is because no worries about time

Btw I use tink as primary, pika secondary, ness tertiary, lucario for lolz and just so he doesn't become awkward to use, sometimes olimar because he's one of the coolest characters

 

[ChikoLad]

@ ChikoLad I disagree that rosaluma takes skill to play her yes she is harder to use than some others but she isn't nearly as good as the ice climbers or takes as much skill.

I would disagree with that entirely.

I hope you aren't basing this statement off of Dabuz, also. People need to stop doing that. He has his own, defensive way of playing her, he doesn't dabble into other nuances of the character though.

 

[Kerpy Derp]

I would disagree with that entirely.

I hope you aren't basing this statement off of Dabuz, also. People need to stop doing that. He has his own, defensive way of playing her, he doesn't dabble into other nuances of the character though.

Dang how did you know what I was thinking??

 

[RoysOurBoy]

As a Ness main since forever, I can tell you that Lucas is completely different than Ness. The only similarities really is their size and their B moves react differently while appearing similar. He is less like Ness than Falco is to Fox imo.

 

[Kerpy Derp]

As a Ness main since forever, I can tell you that Lucas is completely different than Ness. The only similarities really is their size and their B moves react differently while appearing similar. He is less like Ness than Falco is to Fox imo.

Completely is such a strong word they are really quite similar they have a different grab game but they are still quite similar. But I would agree that spac3 animals have more similarity

 

[Mochamico]

As a Ness main since forever, I can tell you that Lucas is completely different than Ness. The only similarities really is their size and their B moves react differently while appearing similar. He is less like Ness than Falco is to Fox imo.

Really, I'd compare Ness and Lucas to Captain Falcon and Ganondorf, or Mario and Luigi. While Ness and Lucas' moveset looks very similar in appearance, in reality their speed and attacks are what set them apart the most. Lucas is Ness, but with a more quirky and changed up moveset.

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

obviously youre not going to want nerfs since youre a rosalina main, quit being biased and take the nerf, your character is too strong. same goes for luigi, pikachu, and shiek. i think if we nerf these 4 characters the meta will flourish because everyone will be dropping the op characters and start using more mid tier characters orrrr characters that acctually take skill

These characters aren't overpowered. Please stop spreading that garbage. If you really want to make the game fair, buff characters that just don't have much of a chance in tournaments.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Triple Hyped! :D

 

[Tomsta17]

Better nerf Greninja

 

[Deleted member]

Great, I'm looking forward to playing as Lucas again. I'm really hoping that Wolf will be the next DLC character announced. He, like Lucas, should have never been cut from the roster.

And the game doesn't need anymore nerf patches. What they need to do is buff the weaker characters like, say, Zelda and Samus...please?

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Lucas seems to be happier than he was on Brawl! That's pretty nice. He is hyped along us.
Also, I wonder why you don't get the Inkling's costume if you use their amiibo. It's even more than the price of the DLC itself.

 

[Puff-Man]

Better nerf Greninja

 

[Deidara]

Like i said in the Social Thread:
Well it's time to take the Mother Train!

The Green Train's Fun, Too!

Get it?!

 

[CptJPuff]

I can't wait for all of the Lucas scrubs on For Glory.

 

[L9999]

I can't wait for all of the Lucas scrubs on For Glory.

Bully them offstage with Rosalina and Killager.

 

[Lukey140701]

Anyone else think it's kinda weird that having the Splatoon amiibo doesn't give you the splatoon costumes in Smash? O.o

This is all that I want

 

[NouveauRétro]

I hope people remember that they promised tournament mode and never went through with it. Also, Game and Watch needs some buffs since he suffers the most from landing lag.

Plus, he's the only character whose loading screen tips contain lies.

Oil Panic - "This bucket can hold all manner of projectiles. Once filled, unleash the contents on an unsuspecting foe."

Oil Panic - "This will only absorb energy-based projectiles. It won't affect physical ones, like Link's arrows."

He needs to be able to absorb ALL explosives!

Sakurai been talking about those free mode DLCs, no real info yet. Also yes G&W needs buffs to Oil Panic(frame 0 activation plz, less lag) and fair for kill power, but landing lag has kinda always been a problem for him. Bair should MAYBE get a lag reduction, Uair probably so short hop uair can become a thing.

His tilts might need tweaking too. Utilt was unfairly nerfed, I wish they'd fix it. Ftilt is w/e. Dtilt got overnerfed from Brawl, now it sucks (except for weird wind shenanigans), please fix.

 

[PhantomShab]

Did I ever say yes though?

Well, you originally responded to my question with "why should I care" instead of just a straight yes or no. Seemed to be leaning more toward "yes" is all I'm saying.

And as for not caring, you sure seemed to care enough to say that people who want Rosalina nerfed are worse than the people making fun of Bruce Jenner's sex change, which is an oddly specific comparison.

 

[TriTails]

...Is it bad that I read 'Lucas Miiverse stage'?

 

[MarioMeteor]

"Falcon and Samus must be clones, too, huh?"
One similar move. I listed several that Lucas and Ness have with minimalistic differences in properties.

"And Dr. Mario is not a clone of Luigi because Luigi isn't a clone of Mario."
Doc's d-special resembles the Luigi cyclone, so I attributed his clone properties to both Luigi and Mario; this is not an uncommon observation. Are you trying to deny that Doc is a clone?

"Lucas' stick does not function like Ness' bat because Ness' bat is stronger at the tip and reflects projectiles, while Lucas' does not."
You can clearly see Lucas reflect a projectile with his stick in the trailer; you should watch it sometime. And again, minimalistic property differences like sweetspot positions do not help defend your position. Marth's sweetspot was the tip of his sword in Melee, while Roy's was at the handle... Does that mean that they weren't clones?

"And that wasn't his down air that spiked, that was his back air"
I'll admit defeat here, for now, but I'm more curious to know how you picked up on this but not the reflective properties of the stick. Both were in the trailer... And when Lucas is playable, we will see whether their dairs are similar. Until then, continue fanboying over paid DLC as Sakurai leans back in his seat from laughter over releasing a clone/semi-clone that people will actually purchase.

I assume you will try to argue that Roy is not a Marth/Lucina clone when he is revealed. Oh, boy. I can taste the salt already.

I'm denying that Doc is a clone of Luigi. You seems to have the mindset that sharing one move automatically makes someone a clone. You say that minimalistic differences don't make somebody unique, so are you saying that it automatically makes them a clone? You think that Doc is a clone of Luigi because they share one move.
I don't you've played Brawl, because every little one of the stupid things that you've said, could've all been answered by playing Brawl. FYI, Lucas' down air involves him stomping five times. Ness only stomps once.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Anyone else think it's kinda weird that having the Splatoon amiibo doesn't give you the splatoon costumes in Smash? O.o

How would that be possible, when the Splatoon amiibo will work to make an Inkling FP? Because, I guarantee you, Nintendo is working their asses off to make the Inkling fit into Smash.

 

[ToonKake]

Oh yea i just remeberd Lucas is Banned From EVO Apparently but wut if another Patch is commin wen Lucas Drops or Better Yet What if Lucas Comes & he Ends up Being O.P & the Commuity gets Butt Hurt to Nerf him....? lol

 

[Deleted member]

While I am pretty excited, I am admittedly nervous about the horrors that could come from the Miiverse stage.

 

[DownsideC]

is just a hype container, calling it right now...is gonna be the next DLC character to be announced. Hands down.

 

[notbenny]

Damn 3.99 is just too expensive imo. He's too similiar to Ness. I would buy him maybe for 2.49 though.

Lucas is completely different than Ness, he's well worth the money.

 

[notbenny]

I do like lucas

 

[SphericalCrusher]

Can't wait. My son can't either, hah (His name is Lucas)

 

[L9999]

When is E3?

 

[Geno Boost]

Except maybe Sheik? Really? She takes more skill than all the others probably....
Good luck killing a player as good as you without putting him over 160%....
Just like you said before, If you're losing to Sheik players, it's always because they are just way better at the game than you.



It's not like they cannot just remove her AT and maybe put a new one in its place....
I just wish they would do that

At least your lucky that your going to play as her in the next project m update (with Isaac and knuckles)

 

[Rony]

My snipar is ready to shrek some FG Skrubs

 

[Chris Sifniotis]

I'm probably the only one who cares right now but I'm hoping the next patch has to do with Mewtwo's custom moves.

And it's pretty incredible that Lucas is announced to be out only a week or so from now. DLCdom!

 

[revengeska]

To argue with someone who's been maining the character since the game first came out is frankly misinformed. To say that Mario is "not a great character" is pathetically misinformed. You're not in a position to call me anything of the sort. It's obvious you know nothing of either character, so why should I "trust you?" Mario is regarded as one of the best characters in the game, and Rosalina has her share of bad matchups. Some even say Mario's matchup against Rosalina is good. Sheik, Yoshi, Falcon, and debatably Jigglypuff, to name a few, all give Rosalina a hard time.

Mario is top 20, quite possibly top 15, probably not top 10. You could call that a great character and that's fine, but to try to call me out based on words with subjective meaning is pointless and rather stupid. I wasn't talking about Mario in the first place anyways, I really don't care about Mario. That's deflecting from the topic.

I'm not really interested in wishful thinking. I'm interested in data, consensus, and top player opinions. Show me real evidence that any of those characters have an even matchup. You can make the case for Yoshi based on Rosalina matchup boards and other data, but more recently the opinions have swung in favor of Rosalina. There's a good reason that she's #2 or #1 in the game.

Rosalina by the way is the only one I'm calling for a nerf. I don't believe any other characters need balancing at this point in time. Rosalina is the Brawl Metaknight of Smash 4, without the ease of simply picking up and winning tournaments.