Lucario's Frame Data [Deleted]

[KuroganeHammer]

Link to Lucario's Complete Frame Data: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Lucario​

 

[KakuCP9]

Quick question. When you put dynamic for Shulk, did you mean he simply changes or you're referring to him actually changing his play-style (i.e dash grabbing on speed or zooming through the air on Jump) because if it's the former, I feel that Lucario would be dynamic since the risk-reward for his attacks is constantly changing.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Quick question. When you put dynamic for Shulk, did you mean he simply changes or you're referring to him actually changing his play-style (i.e dash grabbing on speed or zooming through the air on Jump) because if it's the former, I feel that Lucario would be dynamic since the risk-reward for his attacks is constantly changing.

Dynamic in fighting games is a playstyle exclusive for stance changers, power up, or ammo characters. They're not very common.

Lucario doesn't fit any traditional fighting game archetypes, I think he's closest to Power due to his low mobility and ability to KO people from 40%, but aside from that he doesn't have any true strengths. I mean, I guess he turtles a bit once he hits 100% because he suddenly has the best projectile in the game, but eh.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Great job on this!

Is the aura modifier taking damage or knock back into account? Lucario's Aura damage growth is different for several moves. For example one of UTilt's damage outputs triples from 3ish to 10 from 0 to 190 while Aura Sphere full charge goes from 11 1/3 to 29 from 0 to 190.

I also have been meaning to figure out how much Aura is affected by stocks...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Great job on this!

Is the aura modifier taking damage or knock back into account? Lucario's Aura damage growth is different for several moves. For example one of UTilt's damage outputs triples from 3ish to 10 from 0 to 190 while Aura Sphere full charge goes from 11 1/3 to 29 from 0 to 190.

I also have been meaning to figure out how much Aura is affected by stocks...

It's the same between all moves. Idk about aura sphere though.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

It's the same between all moves. Idk about aura sphere though.

Wow. That's interesting and you're right.

I just tested that formula against https://www.dropbox.com/s/1635k048wzs6rv0/Smash 4 Lucario chart.xls?dl=0 and seems to work for the Force Palm grab at least. I'll do some more science later...

Well done though this will really help develop combos and stuff.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Wow. That's interesting and you're right.

I just tested that formula against https://www.dropbox.com/s/1635k048wzs6rv0/Smash 4 Lucario chart.xls?dl=0 and seems to work for the Force Palm grab at least. I'll do some more science later...

Well done though this will really help develop combos and stuff.

Yes.

Just keep in mind that when on 0%, your attacks are b×0.66, at 70% they're b×1, and at 190% they're b×1.7, with b being BASE DAMAGE. After this calculation, then it's affected by the stale move queue.

I can't be bothered doing it myself, but it may be worth your time to see how the aura multiplier scales with percent in training mode.

I'll even lend you my calculator.

http://kuroganehammer.com/aeromaths.html

If you input base damage into the first text box, and a multiplier into the second text box, it'll... actually you might as well just give it a try. It should help you figure out the aura multiplier at particular percentages.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Yes.

Just keep in mind that when on 0%, your attacks are b×0.66, at 70% they're b×1, and at 190% they're b×1.7, with b being BASE DAMAGE. After this calculation, then it's affected by the stale move queue.

I can't be bothered doing it myself, but it may be worth your time to see how the aura multiplier scales with percent in training mode.

I'll even lend you my calculator.

http://kuroganehammer.com/aeromaths.html

If you input base damage into the first text box, and a multiplier into the second text box, it'll... actually you might as well just give it a try. It should help you figure out the aura multiplier at particular percentages.

@ Eeveecario Is another person who is really good at Smash maths...

I've been talking to him about what if we had a hitstun calculator like https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/ would be amazing for every Smash meta.

 

[Eeveecario]

I'll even lend you my calculator.

http://kuroganehammer.com/aeromaths.html

If you input base damage into the first text box, and a multiplier into the second text box, it'll... actually you might as well just give it a try. It should help you figure out the aura multiplier at particular percentages.

Uuuuhm... nice calculator?

But yeah, there's nothing more required to calculate that... I was thinking on a better calculator development. I just haven't found the time to do that

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ Eeveecario Is another person who is really good at Smash maths...

I've been talking to him about what if we had a hitstun calculator like https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/ would be amazing for every Smash meta.

knockback*0.4 = hitstun in frames, I believe.

You don't have to be good at maths to do it though. All you have to do is go into training mode, pick a percentage and back throw repeatedly.

Example: 50% lucario back throws 10 times: 90%

in the calculator you put in:

10 * 0.9

oh look

all the percentages match up with the ones you got in game

therefore we can conclude that 50% aura lucario has a aura multiplier of 0.9

Edit: 60% is 0.95

Oh my, how simple, anyone can do it!!

Uuuuhm... nice calculator?

But yeah, there's nothing more required to calculate that... I was thinking on a better calculator development. I just haven't found the time to do that

Are you mocking my calculator? I like simplicity. Some people like complicated things. This calculator has done many things for the smash community; including finding hidden base damages, lucario's aura multiplier and shulk's monado multipliers also. It's the only calculation I need because it brings up values in an easy to read list.

 

[Eeveecario]

Yup it's simple and I agree... and I wasn't just talking about multipliers, your calculator does the job done.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-unofficial-hit-stun-frame-calculator.394533/
I was talking about trying to cover more in-depth information. Not just multipliers

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yup it's simple and I agree... and I wasn't just talking about multipliers, your calculator does the job done.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-unofficial-hit-stun-frame-calculator.394533/
I was talking about trying to cover more in-depth information. Not just multipliers

That like, froze my computer.

It's nice but it will never be accurate until you find a formula for rage.

 

[Eeveecario]

That like, froze my computer.

It's nice but it will never be accurate until you find a formula for rage.

Yeah... it has some... issues with that xD
I know there's a relation about the rage formula, but nothing official yet, so I haven't updated it. Still looking to have some free time to make a webpage and make the calculator.

 

[Darxai]

For your stat things, you should probably lower lucario's weight and defense stat, because lucario can't actually do much when people are up in his face. I'd say hes more of an allrounder because as he is damaged more, he hits harder, but in cost of damage, he can be killed easier. Lucario is about mid-lightweight so it doesn't make his defense super high. Just a thought, though

 

[KuroganeHammer]

For your stat things, you should probably lower lucario's weight and defense stat, because lucario can't actually do much when people are up in his face. I'd say hes more of an allrounder because as he is damaged more, he hits harder, but in cost of damage, he can be killed easier. Lucario is about mid-lightweight so it doesn't make his defense super high. Just a thought, though

He's really not a midweight. And definitely nowhere near a lightweight, wtf are you smoking.

 

[Darxai]

He's really not a midweight. And definitely nowhere near a lightweight, wtf are you smoking.

99 weight is pretty in between.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

99 weight is pretty in between.

He's ranked 17th.

Out of 55.

How is that in between??

 

[Darxai]

He's ranked 17th.

Out of 55.

How is that in between??

The weight values of the lighter characters are almost little to nothing compared to him. Lucario has a unique number which means he doesn't share a similar value with another character. Plus the fact that he can be KO'd easier than a good amount.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

No. I am not going to argue with you on this.

Here's the facts:

The average ranking of weight would be 27th.

Lucario is 17th.

The average weight number is about 94.

Lucario is 99.

If you still want to call him a "medium-lightweight", I won't stop you. But do so outside of my topic. I dislike misinformation.

 

[eXinX]

No. I am not going to argue with you on this.

Here's the facts:

The average ranking of weight would be 27th.

Lucario is 17th.

The average weight number is about 94.

Lucario is 99.

If you still want to call him a "medium-lightweight", I won't stop you. But do so outside of my topic. I dislike misinformation.

I main greninja, so I know this for a fact.
Greninja isn't that far from Lucario when it comes to weight. Greninja gets KO'd relatively easily since he's considered a lightweight. Don't call it misinformation just because someone disagrees with you, other people have said Lucario's middle-lightweight in this forum.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

smh these nuffies.....

 

[Darxai]

smh these nuffies.....

I don't mean to be rude, but you don't need to call people ******** just because they want to argue over something that they think is right. You should get so bent out of shape about it. Seriously. If you're going to insult someone, atleast counter-argue the situation at hand. Otherwise you're just making yourself look like an idiot. Sorry, man.

 

[eXinX]

smh these nuffies.....

lol don't be an ass just because you're losing an argument

 

[evmaxy54]

lol don't be an *** just because you're losing an argument

You know what they say

Arguing with silly-billies is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon will just knock the pieces over, **** on the board & strut around like it won anyway

 

[Skarfelt]

It's because you guys are objectively wrong
Like you cannot have an opinion on whether he's light or not
It's like saying "IN MY OPINION OWLS DO NOT EXIST"
Because they do
Similarly, Lucario is not a mid-lightweight

 

[Darxai]

It's because you guys are objectively wrong
Like you cannot have an opinion on whether he's light or not
It's like saying "IN MY OPINION OWLS DO NOT EXIST"
Because they do
Similarly, Lucario is not a mid-lightweight

so you're saying hes a heavy weight

 

[Skarfelt]

Didn't realise the only weight classes in the game were mid-lightweight and heavy

 

[Darxai]

Didn't realise the only weight classes in the game were mid-lightweight and heavy

Thats not my point. You said hes not lightweight, mid-lightweight, or middle. so what is he? Heavy? What? Specify so i can understand.

 

[Eeveecario]

I mostly sure his weight stat is more than optimal for this character gameplay. It's above mid-weight BUT have floaty mechanics, which means he can escape combos with more ease that others from the cast.

It could be either that, or only a graphical representation of his weight ranking on the cast. Take it easy.

 

[Skarfelt]

Thats not my point. You said hes not lightweight, mid-lightweight, or middle. so what is he? Heavy? What? Specify so i can understand.

I never said he wasn't mid. He's on the heavier side of mid, exactly where he is on the graph. He's not super heavy like Bowser but he's definitely heavier than average and the majority of the cast.

 

[Darxai]

I never said he wasn't mid. He's on the heavier side of mid, exactly where he is on the graph. He's not super heavy like Bowser but he's definitely heavier than average and the majority of the cast.

i was talking about the fact that his bar was really on the right side, that was my issue. I thought it was too much. But whateva

 

[Croi]

Lucario is a weight. He runs at a speed and hits at a number multiplied by a number.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Weight is quantified in the images like this:

Weight: 10=128, 9=122-115, 8=112-106, 7=104-98, 6=97-96, 5=95-89, 4=85-80, 3=79-77, 2=75, 1=68

 

[Darxai]

Weight is quantified in the images like this:

Weight: 10=128, 9=122-115, 8=112-106, 7=104-98, 6=97-96, 5=95-89, 4=85-80, 3=79-77, 2=75, 1=68

Alright, that makes more sense, thank you. I thought his bar looked a bit higher than it maybe should have been.

 

[Darxai]

Weight is quantified in the images like this:

Weight: 10=128, 9=122-115, 8=112-106, 7=104-98, 6=97-96, 5=95-89, 4=85-80, 3=79-77, 2=75, 1=68

also what does his defense stand for? his ability to keep away? or what?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Defense is a combination of defensive traits like ability to camp, OoS options, super armor/Intangibility, zoning tools, etc.

Lucario is weird though because he's much better at defense once he reaches 100% because suddenly he's given the best projectile in the game.

 

[Steam]

Lucario is one of the best punishers in the game so his "defense" is good. of course he's like the easiest character to wall out.

 

[Loota]

Lucario is one of the best punishers in the game so his "defense" is good. of course he's like the easiest character to wall out.

Good thing he has so many options mid range that it's impossible to wall out all of his options, and AS in general doesn't give a poop about the opponent's neutral.

But yeah, part of Lucario's good "defense" is definitely his punishing game. He doesn't have much problems making deadly punishes in low to mid range, and shielding is usually a bad option against him due to ASC and FP with its landing properties. Other than that, it's a combination of generous landing lag in his aerials, AS + its charge hitbox denying many options while being a kill setup, and an extremely good foxtrot which has really good synergy with his key moves in neutral. DT exists too even if it's situational.

 

[Nysyr]

Not entirely sure I trust these AC windows for aerials, nor do I trust some of the late hitboxes that are claimed to exist.

Bair is the biggest one sticking out to me, as I'm fairly sure it has an earlier AC window after the hitbox is finished, especially if you don't fast fall it or if you confirm a hit on shield. I have also never seen a "late" hitbox from this move, likewise with forward smash.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Not entirely sure I trust these AC windows for aerials, nor do I trust some of the late hitboxes that are claimed to exist.

Bair is the biggest one sticking out to me, as I'm fairly sure it has an earlier AC window after the hitbox is finished, especially if you don't fast fall it or if you confirm a hit on shield. I have also never seen a "late" hitbox from this move, likewise with forward smash.

Sorry you don't trust raw game data then.

It must be a hard life being that ignorant.