Lucario To-Do list

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Okay we still have stuff left to do and I'd like to have a solid list together so that we can get it all done or perhaps if by chance some very nice random passerby decides to help us here it is. Please help add to it if you have something to add to the list.

1. Work on mindgames, spacing, and stuff. (If one of the procarios could write a good guide or two on it that'd be appreciated.)
2. Video(s) of Air Walk and other non-stall DAir stuff. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271111
3. Stale and partial charge Aura Sphere priority. This thread takes non-stale Aura Sphere priority into account, but we're Lucario, so we will stale it. It will help a bit if we can keep in mind what %s to use it when it is stale to beat certain things. I'll handle this if no one else does.
4. Frame Data stuff (Phil's got this).

I'd like to add a "Lucario Advanced Tech Thread" to the queue since it would be nice to have, but I'm not sure if that's too pressing to be added to this list.

So what else should we add?

 

[Browny]

Allow me to be blunt

Aura sphere priority is useless information. I understand your enthusiasm for wanting to quantify everything, I've done it myself with countless tables of data and graphs for many tiny aspects of brawl, but I can see that idea being useless. Its one thing to research yourself and do whatever you want, but its another when you put the idea into new lucario players heads that learning that data is important. If the best Lucarios all do just fine without needing to know it, it isnt important.

You should understand what I mean when I say you cant to any reliable degree estimate AS's priority when there are SIX variables which affect it. Lucarios %, stock-standing, charge amount, staled, spacing of enemy attack, damage of enemy attack (many attacks have hitboxes which vary in damage over their duration). When the enemy has control over 2 of these variables alone, you will never be able to actually think about and use this information in a match.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Heh, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. This is something that should have been figured out in 2008 to allow for people to properly integrate it into their playstyles if they wanted to.

Even if nobody else will use it I will use it for my own style.

Plus for the sake of figuring out our own character we should know this stuff. I personally find it embarrassing that we do not know it.

 

[Kitamerby]

Honestly, DJ? I'm actually not sure that knowing the first 3 staling slots or so for Aura Sphere would be all that useless when dealing with projectiles, or important moves like Mach Tornado. I'm actually up for figuring out those specific data. Not so much on other moves like aerials and tilts, though.

 

[Browny]

Ever consider if the enemies projectile is staled? Beating out fireballs etc is just as dependant on how stale that is as well as the aura sphere. And id like to see how photgraphic your memory is if you beat mks nado with a bas, then he hits you for lets say 10%, would you know whether the next bas will beat it due to decreased stale damage and increased aura buff? This example is also dependant on the stock standing as that will change as the amount of aura buff. Too much info to work out in a real game situation.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

The staled bas would not win unless if you were a stock behind at somewhat high %s.

BAS caps at 10% at 155% at same stock. You would need to charge it a little or refresh your moves before it would beat nado again. This is one of the reasons why I want to figure out partial charges.

 

[Kitamerby]

Ever consider if the enemies projectile is staled? Beating out fireballs etc is just as dependant on how stale that is as well as the aura sphere. And id like to see how photgraphic your memory is if you beat mks nado with a bas, then he hits you for lets say 10%, would you know whether the next bas will beat it due to decreased stale damage and increased aura buff? This example is also dependant on the stock standing as that will change as the amount of aura buff. Too much info to work out in a real game situation.

I guess so, but it might not be all that impossible if you only need to remember a few core points to keep in mind, especially when involving a move as potentially dominating as the Mach Tornado.

 

[phi1ny3]

I'm currently working on a zoning thread for Lucario, looks like this one:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229253
or this:
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=16108

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

What a LOT of people forget when you AS a MK's nado near start.

HE'S STILL PRESSING B-SIDE.

He will, almost ALWAYS go into wild-start Drill Rush when you hit him with AS at a closeish range.

 

[Blood_Hawk]

What a LOT of people forget when you AS a MK's nado near start.

HE'S STILL PRESSING B-SIDE.

He will, almost ALWAYS go into wild-start Drill Rush when you hit him with AS at a closeish range.

You can sometimes get them caught in it at lower levels, but more often than not they don't buffer Drill Rush if they're not blindly spamming, which the MK shouldn't be doing anyway.



As far as the list, Frame data stuff is meh, we already have a general idea of all of that. Air walking, again, looks good on paper but it's practically useless. Aura sphere data again, I dunno, seems useless. We already have a general knowledge of what beats what when. Saying we should work on spacing is good, that's what everyone should be doing anyway.

Mindgames is such a broad word. I hate when it gets thrown around so much. You can't work on mindgames. Mindgames happen from good spacing and reads and that kind of thing. So if you improve on your spacing and reaction time, you're improving your ability to read your opponent thus creating the mindgames everyone speaks of so broadly. Mindgames is not an aspect of play, it's a result of playing with good spacing and reading your opponent via picking up on habits, patterns, and all that jazz.

IMHO, work on spacing, spacing, and more spacing. That and getting better in general.

You guys do what you feel is right though. Just don't be too upset when it turns out to be a dead end street. Just sayin. <3

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Air Walking is moderately useful, but the learning curve for it is pretty high if you're not already familiar with the game mechanics. One common application of it is when someone is hassling you from underneath if you land on a platform. It gives you a fairly safe spacing tool. Think Snake's and Marth's UTilt and UAir.

I've talked to D. Disciple about Air Walk and he told me like nobody punishes him from it.

Why isn't Aura Sphere data important? Knowing when it precisely beats a majority of another character's moves (unless they have a reflector/can absorb it) is HUGE. It allows us to hard camp characters like Peach or Marth when we know we can beat their common moves. Partial charges are important because its anyone's guess to how much each partial charge does. When it comes down to beating a certain move with a partial charge Aura Sphere like Pika's TJolt, MK's Nado, etc. when we do not have time to always use a FCAS it helps to document this stuff. I've never asked anyone to memorize every single little freaking number (because I haven't even come close to remembering everything), but its good to have there to look at at least. You then get to integrate more into your mindgames.

The more options we know we have the more things we can decide to do in a pinch.

All of this stuff sparks discussion, gets people looking at the boards, and most importantly gets people thinking about how to play Lucario. My goal is to help improve Lucario's metagame and to get people just thinking about it means my mission is successful. The domino effect if you will.

 

[Saltix]

Air Walking is moderately useful, but the learning curve for it is pretty high if you're not already familiar with the game mechanics. One common application of it is when someone is hassling you from underneath if you land on a platform. It gives you a fairly safe spacing tool. Think Snake's and Marth's UTilt and UAir.

I've talked to D. Disciple about Air Walk and he told me like nobody punishes him from it.

Why isn't Aura Sphere data important? Knowing when it precisely beats a majority of another character's moves (unless they have a reflector/can absorb it) is HUGE. It allows us to hard camp characters like Peach or Marth when we know we can beat their common moves. Partial charges are important because its anyone's guess to how much each partial charge does. When it comes down to beating a certain move with a partial charge Aura Sphere like Pika's TJolt, MK's Nado, etc. when we do not have time to always use a FCAS it helps to document this stuff. I've never asked anyone to memorize every single little freaking number (because I haven't even come close to remembering everything), but its good to have there to look at at least. You then get to integrate more into your mindgames.

The more options we know we have the more things we can decide to do in a pinch.

All of this stuff sparks discussion, gets people looking at the boards, and most importantly gets people thinking about how to play Lucario. My goal is to help improve Lucario's metagame and to get people just thinking about it means my mission is successful. The domino effect if you will.

It's not that it's not important, it's a LOT OF **** INFO
we live in a lazy world yo

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

It's not that it's not important, it's a LOT OF **** INFO
we live in a lazy world yo

And while other characters develop their own metagame we're sitting around doing nothing.

I know there's more we could add to the list, so anyone got anything they wanna add or tackle?

 

[Browny]

lol, exactly what are other characters doing?

going over matchup/stage lists for their 5th rotation doesnt count. New techs like fsmashing people when you predict a roll behind dont count either.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Well, to be honest I find something like this http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=276005 to be impressive.

 

[Saltix]

Well, to be honest I find something like this http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=276005 to be impressive.

That is pretty good, and who the **** even plays CF lol
I can't wait for our "Zoning thread"
But on second thought; all it really would be is a visual representation of what should be common sense, and posting it in the forum would allow it to be publicly assessed
I think if we end up creating a zoning thread, we ought to just secretly distribute it lol.

And while other characters develop their own metagame we're sitting around doing nothing.

I know there's more we could add to the list, so anyone got anything they wanna add or tackle?

We need to just work on silly things for the mindgame factor, and make sure we know what NOT to do in certain matchups imo; honestly, I played Elev8's D3 yesterday, and his jet hammer super walk suprised the **** out of me. I mean it surprised not only me, but my lucario tripped into it o.o
Little mindgamey things like, Aurasphere charge dribbling diddy's bananas