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[Ridley_Prime]

The Ridley demonstrated part is at 6:12, but the whole invincibility frames from grabbing a ledge from above in general appears to be a universal mechanic (with the exception of tether recoveries), but this finding is huge for Ridley particularly, with his disadvantage state being known for what it is, so now if you do this (whether through wing blitzing past the ledge before grabbing or just grabbing ledge from above with an extra jump), he can't get two framed anymore during ledge getup.

Theoretically anyway. Suppose this needs to be labbed to be certain, but am confident that's the case.

edit: Saw a lab result, and this is the lowest you can be while having the invincible frames via the wing blitz method, so... pretty good I guess.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Just realized it was never posted here before, but this meme will forever be perfectly relevant when it comes to Ridley sometimes still being rated/considered low tier without any of his strengths being acknowledged or brought up. Thank you whoever made it.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Some slick logos.

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[Cosmic77]

Some slick logos.

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That Ridley logo would be a really cool sticker to put on stuff.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Hol up

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[RomanceDawn]

Anyone test out Ridley's Skewer buff? Is it easier to hit or just more damage or both?

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Anyone test out Ridley's Skewer buff? Is it easier to hit or just more damage or both?

Just more damage. Went from like 50 to 66% on its own.

But it got gutted setup wise... Unless this is a bug. It better be.

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He lost skewer tech chases on platforms following d-throw too if this is intentional. The theory is that they wanted to remove skewer infinites for team doubles, but this got hit in the crossfire.

Oh, I guess this also makes a lot of the combos from the recent Vreyvus skewer tutorial null and void too now. This is bad.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Awww man no zoom in?! It can't be!

And that doesn't mean no skewer tech chases at all right?

edit: Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I just did a one on one and landed a Skewer with the zoom in affect fully intact. phew...

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Awww man no zoom in?! It can't be!

And that doesn't mean no skewer tech chases at all right?

edit: Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I just did a one on one and landed a Skewer with the zoom in affect fully intact. phew...

A stray skewer on its own will work like normal with the zoom in, but one that happens after d-throw is where you'll notice the change.

Jury's still out on what all we can and can't do with skewer now. Just needs to be labbed all over again (see how it clanks or interacts with certain character moves and command grabs and such), but here's an analysis that shows what's known so far.

It really is bittersweet. I was excited at first seeing the buffed damage output for our down special, but then seeing the tradeoff, what we lost whether intentional or not...

 

[Garo]

If this means Skewer beats Wonderwing I'm about to end that bear's whole career.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

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Unfortunate how things come full circle sometimes, though I guess it teaches not to go for d-throw > down B anymore under any circumstance, and to be fair, the Ridley in that clip made a mistake with the panic d-air (will that move of his ever be improved/fixed?) which led to him getting punished hard.

Bayo was lowkey able to do this to Ridley before the new buffs, but now it's like the evil is back, although not elevated to her Smash 4 self, but still; kinda feels as though his pre-release sacrifice against her was in vain and back to square one now in a sense. Pretty sure too that aerial up B combo of hers has become inescapable for us even with DI's considered, much as I hoped otherwise at first.

On the bright side, further labbing showed that up throw > skewer on platforms and the other usual setups and tech chases that don't involve down throw still work, so is not all bad. While I still don't quite agree with the tradeoff, we're still rewarded now more than ever for a raw skewer hit thanks to the new damage output. Ridley just lost one gimmicky noob killing combo in doing so, but nothing to lose sleep over I guess with all his other still viable options.

With the other major character buffs (not just Bayo), I wonder if these now once again tougher matchups will make him fall further in rankings, leading to him having to get significant buffs again, or if he'll remain in mostly the same spot in terms of wins/losses and not get buffs.

edit: Could've worded that last part better initially, but also needed to share this.

#SSBU_Ridley Quick rundown on Ridley's almost pointless buff. pic.twitter.com/NqlmdQr8g6

— Zeppy (@TheZepDragon) June 30, 2020

He can now act 6 frames faster for a skewer followup apparently; did not know this before. Okay, this is actually a rather decent trade then.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/49877

Nintendo updated the patch notes for the Ridley part to include the d-throw hitgrab change... It's not a bug.

So I guess for anyone who hasn't seen yet, I labbed out d-tilt > skewer versus everyone as an alternative, which I posted in the Match Analyses and Tips/Discussion thread here.

The change with d-throw > skewer is a feature we'll have to deal with regardless of if it's a good change or not, and will have to adapt and just make other skewer setups and alternatives the new normal. I've made my peace with it.

 

[Predatoria]

Oof.....

Yeah honestly it's not so much Ridley not being buffed (or, meaningfully buffed) that hurts.

It's seeing a giant wall of buffs to tons of characters that are well above Ridley's place in the meta, along with zero nerfs to characters that are really frustrating to fight against.

When you see half the cast get buffed, it just feels like you got nerfed anyways. Power creep is getting steep.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

A lot of the ones who were buffed this patch were lower tiers like Kirby or just underused, but I get ya. At least Diddy Kong's banana peel infinite is no more, tho he got buffs too to compensate.

The more I learn and realize what can be done with the new skewer though, the more I feel better about it and its uses despite the loss of the old dthrow combo for it. Another case of Sakurai giveth and Sakurai take away like with the Diddy example.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I remade the fountain scene from Beastars.

 

[Garo]

I've always relied mostly on reads and spacing out other attacks when going for Skewer, so the change isn't that big of a deal for me. It's understandable from a dev standpoint to want to prevent some of the bullyish team combos, but on the other hand I understand it can be frustrating for players to have something they've practiced go to waste.

I do wonder if we'll see any more Ridley buffs in the future. Seeing Incineroar get reduced startup on side-b makes me wish for the same for Ridley. I'd also want them to add a little splash hitbox when landing with d-air as Ridley's wings touch the ground.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think Ridley will get some more buffs.

We got at least five more patches.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

And if they can give K. Rool his significant need of more belly armor health, they can give Ridley more weight.

But whatever happens, happens I guess as far as buffs.

 

[Cosmic77]

There's still plenty of time left for buffs, so I wouldn't worry just yet. We're on the first of six characters for this pass.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'm pretty skeptical that Ridley's weight will be buffed, since it's pretty clearly by design that he's relatively fragile for his size. Mewtwo did get a minor weight buff in an earlier patch, but more often than not they tend to double down on a character's strengths with buffs instead of fixing glaring deficiencies in their design. The recent Incineroar buffs is a perfect example of this, they simply made him better at what he was already good at, rather than helping his really poor mobility, which is the actual reason he struggles. This method is nice in that it preserves the identity of the character, but at the same time it does mean that characters which struggle because of their underlying design are likely going to continue doing so for the rest of the game.

Ridley luckily doesn't have it as difficult in that regard as the more extreme cases, such as Little Mac, Dr. Mario and Incineroar, so it's not as big of a deal in his case, and he's already doing better than those characters anyways. It would be really nice with weight and air speed/acceleration buffs though, because it does feel like Ridley is on the brink of being a genuinely great character, he just needs a little bit of help on those fronts.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I'm pretty skeptical that Ridley's weight will be buffed, since it's pretty clearly by design that he's relatively fragile for his size. Mewtwo did get a minor weight buff in an earlier patch, but more often than not they tend to double down on a character's strengths with buffs instead of fixing glaring deficiencies in their design. The recent Incineroar buffs is a perfect example of this, they simply made him better at what he was already good at, rather than helping his really poor mobility, which is the actual reason he struggles. This method is nice in that it preserves the identity of the character, but at the same time it does mean that characters which struggle because of their underlying design are likely going to continue doing so for the rest of the game.

Ridley luckily doesn't have it as difficult in that regard as the more extreme cases, such as Little Mac, Dr. Mario and Incineroar, so it's not as big of a deal in his case, and he's already doing better than those characters anyways. It would be really nice with weight and air speed/acceleration buffs though, because it does feel like Ridley is on the brink of being a genuinely great character, he just needs a little bit of help on those fronts.

Fair point. Even with his weight and should it not ever be increased, his good recovery (often misconceived as bad because of people or non-mains not knowing how it works for him) and excellent DI makes an experienced Ridley still hard to kill.

Because of the general philosophy for buffs with Ultimate as pointed out (them mainly improving what a character is already good at rather than fixing what's weak in their design), I've started doubting that Ridley's d-air will ever be buffed/fixed at this point to where it's a reliable landing move for him on stage or something (shame). He'll likely have some of his other decent moves made a little stronger (more or less what 4.0 gave him) if he gets anymore buffs. Maybe his f-tilt, f-smash, or something. I mean we just had skewer buffed by a few %'s which was the last thing any of us were expecting, even if it was merely done as compensation for the loss of the d-throw > down-B noob combo which doesn't really affect his viability in the grand scheme of things.

 

[RomanceDawn]

It is too bad that Down Air isn't very useful on the ground but does anyone else use it off stage? Against most of the cast I find it to be absolutely essential to Ridley play.

Also if Skewer counts as a grab does it go through counters now?

 

[Garo]

It is too bad that Down Air isn't very useful on the ground but does anyone else use it off stage? Against most of the cast I find it to be absolutely essential to Ridley play.

Also if Skewer counts as a grab does it go through counters now?

I use full hop -> d-air pretty often as an edgeguard when the opponent's recovering low. You get just enough time to jump and up-b back to the ledge, at least on Final Destination.

PKBeats just did a video where he showed that the new Skewer doesn't actually beat Wonderwing, so I'd expect the same goes for counters. Dunno if anyone's gone through the files yet to confirm anything, but he speculated it wasn't actually made into a grab but given a unique property just to prevent some team shenanigans.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Yeah. The marginal damage buff from skewer still does wonders for Ridley in certain situations though. Don't underestimate it.

Thanks 8.0 pic.twitter.com/nD3jKpTjNU

— Q 3rd Strike (@acroraptor) July 6, 2020

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Oh, skewer tipper apparently does a bit more shield stun and damage on shield now too. Guess it’s not too surprising with the minor damage buff, but still.

Not a game changer but not insignificant either far as potential shield pressuring goes. Skewer does like a tilt attack’s worth of damage on shield now at least, but considering the opponent would likely have their shield up a good few seconds or so before when they’re looking to wait and block our down B, their shield might be even more diminished afterward. Imagine too if you bombard an opponent with charged plasma breath which they shield most of, and then during their shield stun you try to land a skewer... Wonder if it’d break shield at that point.

Always did seem odd before for skewer to be a non-threat in terms shield damage regardless, tho can see why they didn’t make the move a particularly potent shield breaker, but this increase is at least something to live with, knowing it now.

 

[Constantini]

I kind of stopped playing for a bit but picked the game up again after the latest patch and man, am I sad.
Yeayea down b got buffed WHATEVER man, where's the actual quality of life buffs? You know, I mained Ike in sm4sh and although he was kinda bunk at the beginning they gave him quality of life upgrades, albeit small, all throughout the game's lifespan. By the end of it he sat at upper mid tier and could contend with most characters save for bayo, zss and sheik. I don't feel like ridley is getting the proper quality of life buffs he needs. You can watch downB compilations all day but that stuff works mostly just online and against people who don't know the matchup or aren't usually that great, really.

I'm still ok with him, he's ''ok'' but I still scratch my head at how balance patch priority works. Seems like a lot of already good characters get minor buffs, some one-off character gets a bunch of buffs(falcon this time) and the rest of the cast gets crappy and unimportant jank.
I mean, do they give half a **** about isabelle? Thank god I don't main her because her design philosophy is straight up flawed.

To end my ********; the min min matchup is absolute hell. Won't even get started on that one.

 

[Minix0]

I think people aren't utilizing Ridley's multiple jumps enough. You can really mix up your landing options with it, not to mention your approach. Really helps in certain matchups. Too many people play Ridley like Bowser or Charizard. Not enough people use his tools to his benefit.

Also, although a weight buff would be nice, Ridley is tied for 12th (or so...) heaviest in the game. Not to mention he gets back to the stage quite easily despite his weight. If Ridley were to get buffed I think he needs:

1) Plasma breath to come out faster, to contend in problem mu's with projectiles

2) Make his kill confirms more consistent

3) Either make side-b stronger or decrease startup or endlag.

4) Reduce fair endlag or increase hitbox size.

I kind of stopped playing for a bit but picked the game up again after the latest patch and man, am I sad.
Yeayea down b got buffed WHATEVER man, where's the actual quality of life buffs? You know, I mained Ike in sm4sh and although he was kinda bunk at the beginning they gave him quality of life upgrades, albeit small, all throughout the game's lifespan. By the end of it he sat at upper mid tier and could contend with most characters save for bayo, zss and sheik. I don't feel like ridley is getting the proper quality of life buffs he needs. You can watch downB compilations all day but that stuff works mostly just online and against people who don't know the matchup or aren't usually that great, really.

I'm still ok with him, he's ''ok'' but I still scratch my head at how balance patch priority works. Seems like a lot of already good characters get minor buffs, some one-off character gets a bunch of buffs(falcon this time) and the rest of the cast gets crappy and unimportant jank.
I mean, do they give half a **** about isabelle? Thank god I don't main her because her design philosophy is straight up flawed.

To end my ********; the min min matchup is absolute hell. Won't even get started on that one.

He hasn't received buffs because he's already a good, functioning character. Is he perfect? No, but I'll take a mid tier over pre-patch Falco or a character like Little Mac who is broken by sheer design concept.

 

[Constantini]

Thing is he's not really good, he's *just* ok. It's not to be a downer, I've mained low or even bottom tier characters in other games I've played competitively but difference is their design philosophy still worked. Ridley works but only to a certain degree. His entire kit works but it jusssst works. That's not enough to cut it in ssbu at even mid level really, because none of his tilts, aerials or multiple jumps will do jack against the high/top tiers. Jump around all you want in front of swordies and palutena, see how that goes.
On the other hand, tournament entries and results don't lie. Finding any good ridley footage is like going on a dedicated hunt for something rare on youtube.
The issue with how heavy he is isn't really that in itself it's the airspeed. I say it over and over again and I believe that is the one buff that could really do him justice. He gets comboed for all of eternity because hes so big and slow in the air and that just so happens to rack up his percent so damn high that it doesn't even matter how heavy he is.


Lastly he's got nothing out of shield that's truly reliable unlike DK or Bowser. You get crossed up and around in really weird ways when using heavies but outside of short hop nair he's got nothing and often times that'll get punished too. Mario can fast fall nair and it doesn't matter where he lands or if he even knows where he's landing; he can press any button and you're in for another combo rollercoaster because none of your options can punish him. You can apply that to many, many other matchups.

Again he's not as bad as little mac or isabelle but began at mid tier and has steadily been dropping since according to pretty much every single pro player, because as the cast gets more meaningful buffs he gets breadcrumbs instead.

 

[RomanceDawn]

I don't know. I play in tournaments only ever so often or friendlies at tournaments and I feel like I do pretty well for myself. I'm loving what Ridley has to offer. Sure I'd gladly take better everything but ever since Ridley's major patch buffs I've been on cloud 9.

I mean sure, I get shut down hard from time to time but well? So what?

I personally feel like I handle Palutena's reasonably well. Same for Pika/Pichu, Ness, Lucina, Roy, Pokemon Trainer, Links, etc/ They have an edge but it doesn't seem un-winnable to me. Not like against the Belmonts or Mega Man. I just can't function when I'm against them. Though that is probably due to my own lack of skill and familiarity with the match up.

 

[Constantini]

I don't know. I play in tournaments only ever so often or friendlies at tournaments and I feel like I do pretty well for myself. I'm loving what Ridley has to offer. Sure I'd gladly take better everything but ever since Ridley's major patch buffs I've been on cloud 9.

I mean sure, I get shut down hard from time to time but well? So what?

I personally feel like I handle Palutena's reasonably well. Same for Pika/Pichu, Ness, Lucina, Roy, Pokemon Trainer, Links, etc/ They have an edge but it doesn't seem un-winnable to me. Not like against the Belmonts or Mega Man. I just can't function when I'm against them. Though that is probably due to my own lack of skill and familiarity with the match up.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's terrible despite what my long rants seem to hint at. It's more that it irks me how he's got(at least I personally believe) the potential to be a high tier, major tournament viable character, but he's stuck where he is for some very very small compromises in his design. I think he needs to get tuned ever so slightly in the right areas to make that happen. It really is a bummer that I've been dreaming of him getting into smash since melee, and while he's my true main, he's non existent in the scene. You'll see every other heavy except him, I think, because while he's a good contender he lacks that essential stock taking cheese that can get you lower brackets. Just a tiny buff to his air speed, fall speed, and Dair. I think he'd shoot up the tier list immediately.

Belmonts and megaman shut rids down for good, those are just really bad matchups. Same with young link, and duck hunt but it's not the end of the world.

 

[Minix0]

Small battlefield seems like a good stage for Ridley. The platforms really helps him against projectiles and extend combos, along with making his kill confirms kill earlier due to the nature of platforms obviously being well, raised.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Yeah. Also our up throw is more optimal on that stage as a setup for juggles since there’s no top mid platform for them to fall back upon, so just guess whether they’ll DI left or right after and anticipate.

The fact small battlefield is less campy by design (making it naturally easier to get away from spammy chains like Palu nair when compared to regular battlefield) also bodes well.

Whether it effectively replaces Pokemon Stadium 2 or something to that effect, am thankful for its addition, as well as this being the beginning of updates for alleviating the online lag, which there was already noticeable improvements far as 1v1.

 

[Minix0]

Yeah. Also our up throw is more optimal on that stage as a setup for juggles since there’s no top mid platform for them to fall back upon, so just guess whether they’ll DI left or right after and anticipate.

The fact small battlefield is less campy by design (making it naturally easier to get away from spammy chains like Palu nair when compared to regular battlefield) also bodes well.

Whether it effectively replaces Pokemon Stadium 2 or something to that effect, am thankful for its addition, as well as this being the beginning of updates for alleviating the online lag, which there was already noticeable improvements far as 1v1.

I really hope it replaces PS2. Its a neutral stage, but every time I go there its always a campy game smh.

 

[Constantini]

Small battlefield is a GODSEND. Uair is infinitely more useful as a kill option here. It was already good but considering how slow and floaty ridleys jumps are a lot of characters could fall safely into the mid plat when on regular battlefield. On that note, platform dropping with Uair is also easier and better in general because that extra little inch gives you just enough time to not mess it up and have it autocancel on the ground.

Small victories but I'll take anything I can.

 

[Minix0]

What are you guys' thoughts on Ridley's viability? My gut says upper end of mid tier, but I have a feeling he might end up like Bowser and end up in lower high tier, especially if he gets a buff.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Mid tier, but where exactly among the mids, hard to say.

Oh yeah, another thing about Small Battlefield for Rid that was found earlier, is you can back throw opponents onto the platform of the opposite side when they're around 70%. Situational, but a good setup to keep in mind.

「小戦場　リドリー」
台下で70%前後時、もう片方の台に向けて後ろ投げすると乗る（キャラによって%は変化）。
受け身の反応かなり難しいからこっから横Bだったりデススタだったり繋げられるかも#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/LwyRplsk9j

— BANBI (@BANBI40070076) August 5, 2020

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

This is one of the dumber things I've made.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Ridley in his everlasting quest to spite Samus decides to be a parent.

"Hey, uh, Ridley... Don't you think Spyro has enough dragon 'dads' as it is?"#Spyro #SpyroReignitedTrilogy #Ridley pic.twitter.com/X9i0Zm92os

— ⚡CloudyPouty⚡(cloudypouty.bsky.social) (@CloudyPouty) September 5, 2020

 

[Ridley_Prime]

bro as far as im concerned that trailer was a ridley buff, i get to use ridley's side-b animation where he SMASHES PEOPLE INTO THE WALL pic.twitter.com/2Yfc0nRHYp

— Turtle Hands (@Turtle_Hands) October 1, 2020