Social Lower Norfair

[MasterOfKnees]

Can't you just b-reverse the up special if you need to use the backwards-moving option? Or use a midair jump to do so since characters with multiple jumps can do that? Besides, it's usually when he needs to go straight up is when he gets nailed, because otherwise they fear his aerials and side b. The most vital part of his recovery may be conserving his jumps.

But more importantly, when recovery moves falter at the "recovery" aspect, they usually make up for it in offence. We know that it hits stupidly hard with a lot of damage and knockback. You can use that damage to plow through many projectiles (this is where the downward angle on the forward option is good, to hit the ground when used from a shorthop and minimize lag), and the delayed startup (which is still not that long when you look at the Star Fox crew, especially considering it's power) can be used to catch opponents conditioned to airdodge his much quicker aerials, making it a good surprise kill option.

It's far from ideal having to waste a jump to turn yourself around, he only has 3 jumps (2 midair) which isn't enough to gain control of a disadvantageous offstage situation when you're so big, and edgeguarding is a pretty big deal in this game too, so characters like Meta Knight, Pikachu or Bayo won't even let him get the time of the day.

His main issue really is when he has to recover at an angle as he simply can't reach a lot of the time, any slight nudge from even the smallest projectile means he's dead. Straight up is actually not quite as bad as the move has huge priority and a deceivingly large hitbox, it's still not good mind you, but the primary reason it isn't is because it often takes so long for him to get into the right position that the opponent can prepare to punish him, which again is because he can't recover diagonally.

It's also too slow and unsafe to use offensively, it might catch inexperienced players out, but it's never going to land at the highest level safe for when the opponent fumbles his gimp, if you use it on stage it'll only result in you getting punished super hard.

 

[meleebrawler]

It's far from ideal having to waste a jump to turn yourself around, he only has 3 jumps (2 midair) which isn't enough to gain control of a disadvantageous offstage situation when you're so big, and edgeguarding is a pretty big deal in this game too, so characters like Meta Knight, Pikachu or Bayo won't even let him get the time of the day.

His main issue really is when he has to recover at an angle as he simply can't reach a lot of the time, any slight nudge from even the smallest projectile means he's dead. Straight up is actually not quite as bad as the move has huge priority and a deceivingly large hitbox, it's still not good mind you, but the primary reason it isn't is because it often takes so long for him to get into the right position that the opponent can prepare to punish him, which again is because he can't recover diagonally.

It's also too slow and unsafe to use offensively, it might catch inexperienced players out, but it's never going to land at the highest level safe for when the opponent fumbles his gimp, if you use it on stage it'll only result in you getting punished super hard.

Well like I said. B-reversing it will get you the angle without wasting a jump. But the option nonetheless remains for those who don't have the hang of it yet. Since he drifts a good distance after using it he can start it from quite far offstage and still reach the edge. Those edgeguarders will have to be quick to stop him from doing so at those ranges, but then he can use his jumps and aerials to fight them off.

Directional airdodges in this game have huge aerial endlag. And if you're pressuring and juggling your opponent well with your aerials, they will have to use them at some point, which is where you nail them with the up b. This is somewhat matchup dependent, of course, working better on floatier characters. It's not something you focus on landing, but the reward is great when the opportunity presents itself.

I wonder what happens if you use the forward version on the ground?

 

[ChronoBound]

To tell you the truth, I had expectations going back to 2007 that if Ridley ever made it in as a playable character that he would be low or bottom tier. Personally, I do not mind this. The problem with this is that tier placement often correlates to character popularity. Back during pre-Brawl, there was quite a few people who wanted to see Mewtwo and Mr. Game & Watch cut, yet hardly no one wanted the one-shot Sheik cut. Why was that? Well two of those were bottom tier, while one was top.

In 2018's internet, there is especially a tendency for groupthink (at sites like reddit you are explicitly shown which opinions are popular and which ones are not) so if people say "a character should not return because they are garbage competitively" unfortunately you will have a lot of people "upvoting" that opinion, and people whom do not have the proclivity to think something out for themselves will agree with that opinion. If Ridley is bad competitively, you could easily see clowns saying "this is why Ridley should not have been playable", instead of asking for buffs for Ridley.

Hopefully Ridley is solid, but I am prepared for him being bottom tier. Hopefully, he will get the buffs he needs down the line.

 

[AndreaAC]

The gif version.

In hindsight this clash was cooler than it had business being, but if you still go by the Metroid and Kid Icarus sibling thing, then it fits, along with some nice angel vs demon symbolism I guess.

>w< I LOVE THIS SO DAMN MUCH! Ridley looks bloody GORGEOUS!

Guess that Pit is trying to avange himself after this that happened last Thanksgiving:

Also, having no internet for days and having no other thing to play other than Brawlhalla gave me some ideas...

 

[Ridley_Prime]

^ Good stuff as always.

To tell you the truth, I had expectations going back to 2007 that if Ridley ever made it in as a playable character that he would be low or bottom tier. Personally, I do not mind this. The problem with this is that tier placement often correlates to character popularity. Back during pre-Brawl, there was quite a few people who wanted to see Mewtwo and Mr. Game & Watch cut, yet hardly no one wanted the one-shot Sheik cut. Why was that? Well two of those were bottom tier, while one was top.

In 2018's internet, there is especially a tendency for groupthink (at sites like reddit you are explicitly shown which opinions are popular and which ones are not) so if people say "a character should not return because they are garbage competitively" unfortunately you will have a lot of people "upvoting" that opinion, and people whom do not have the proclivity to think something out for themselves will agree with that opinion. If Ridley is bad competitively, you could easily see clowns saying "this is why Ridley should not have been playable", instead of asking for buffs for Ridley.

Hopefully Ridley is solid, but I am prepared for him being bottom tier. Hopefully, he will get the buffs he needs down the line.

We've still got our work cut out for us then, not that I think Sakurai bowed to the competitive community when it came to the decision of cutting Mewtwo from Brawl, but still. People also eventually wanted Ganondorf cut due to his super low viability after Melee, but look how he's progressed now (new smash attacks and such), and even before that, fans made Ganondorf fun/worthwhile for themselves with what they had to work with.

Let's not pretend either that the currently viewed meta at pre-release/launch is gonna be the same as the meta later in the game's lifespan when it has a chance to actually develop & players figure things out for themselves when everyone has the game.

Keep character activism for Ridley going though regardless of tier, to show we're not taking his inclusion for granted after how long we campaigned for him. I hate how it's already starting to feel that way with some fans sleeping on him due to reddit clout or whatnot, kinda killing the hype of him being playable for themselves and some others. Regardless of where he's placed amongst the tiers in the end though, we won't let his flame die out without a fight.

 

[Diem]

This is unsettling:

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

https://gonintendo.com/stories/322672-nintendo-says-metroid-prime-4-well-into-development-teases-br

According to this, Reggie is focusing on playing as Ridley in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, and Metroid Prime 4 is "well into development".

Geez! I initially misread that as Ridley being playable in Metroid Prime 4.
Boy howdy, could you guys imagine!?

Dual playable campaigns in a Metroid game. One of them being for Ridley himself.

 

[AndreaAC]

This is unsettling:

xD I remember reading it one time. It made me glad that my ideas are the way they are.

 

[The Event Mask]

Honestly it shouldn't matter what tier Ridley's in when the game comes out. Sakurai can makes changes to characters that are overpowered or underpowered. Bowser was low tier in Smash 4 when the game came out but after a few updates he became middle tier. It also shouldn't matter where Ridley is on the tier list anyways, if people like the character then it really shouldn't matter. I mained Ganondorf in Brawl and Smash 4 and he was considered bottom tier. It would be nice to see Ridley being played at pro level but it's not gonna affect me either way if he's not, I'm still gonna play him regardless.

 

[Arcanir]

Honestly, I wouldn't say positive tiering is always good for a character's popularity. It can be helpful of course as the aforementioned Sheik proves, but it can also be a detriment if the general mindset is that the character's high tiering is because of an overtuned playstyle or moveset. Bayonetta is a great example of that as she's extremely hated within the competitive community despite being so good in the game, and it's gotten so bad that many have called for her removal just based on that fact alone and were even annoyed when it was announced she'd return for Ultimate. Characters like Smash 4!Diddy also had vocal groups of fans against them for similar reasons, though thankfully that didn't stick as much as it did for Bayonetta.

Really though, when it comes down to it, I'd say a character's popularity within Smash comes more down to how they play then how viable they are. Marth is popular in his own right, but look at how much Smash fans adore Roy over him despite being worse then Marth in both Melee and 4. Similarly, Ike has never broken past mid-tier in either Smash game he's been in, but he's also far more popular then Corrin who was high tier from their start. In the end, most players are going to gravitate to who they enjoy playing more then who's good, and that's because at the end of the day Smash isn't just a competitive game. It's a game where we're allowed to play as we like with many different options available, and those options don't always require you to use the best character possible. So as long as Ridley is fun to play for anyone, it's not going to matter if he's too good or terrible in competitive and has a small vocal group yelling at him for it, he's going to have a large number of fans who shrug it off and continue playing as him because they like playing as him. That's all Ridley needs to be popular within the fanbase, being good competitively is not a requirement for that, it's just a nice luxury.

 

[CamZilla94]

Had y'all in mind on Soul Calibur today!

 

[Giga Kaiju]

Guys, tiers should not be a factor in who do you want to play. Just play as who you want and forget about the rest.

.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

If I had to choose though, would rather fight an uphill battle to try and make Ridley a little better/get him some buffs depending on initial reception if it came to that, than fighting a downhill battle where he’s top/broken tier and you pretty much have to admit he’s overpowered and await & wonder what kind of nerfs he’ll get like Bayonetta fans mostly had to go through. No fan of any character deserves that kind of stigma for their main.

Had y'all in mind on Soul Calibur today!

I’ll have to admit you managed the head part better than I did, not that Lizardman has that much customization options sadly.

 

[Shog]

All this talk about tier list makes me realize that being Mid-Tier is truly the most comfortable position. I hope this is the case for all three Metroid Reps.

Also, I think I can'T be the only one who has casual ""mains""(<- Corrin, Samus, Ridley, all Pokemon in this case) and competitive ""mains""(<- Young Link, looks like the Melee version of him, which I really enjoyed to play with back in Melee times)

 

[CamZilla94]

I’ll have to admit you managed the head part better than I did, not that Lizardman has that much customization options sadly.

It really is a shame how little you can do with Lizardman (maybe if they actually release him we'll have more stuff to work with)! Happy to see another Ridley in SC!

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I don't think anyone here is jumping ship just because it looks like Ridley might be bad, we didn't have tier placement in mind while supporting him for so many years after all, but it's alright to bring up the concern now that we're closing in on release. I mained Puff in Smash 4, so I'm well prepared for the worst, but I'd also prefer not having to struggle like that again. On the other hand, I do prefer that situation to that of my Brawl main, Meta Knight, being the top tier is not fun in the slightest as it comes with so much negativity.

Ideally your main would just about dip its toes in top 10, that's a position where you can do a lot of good things with it, others help you push the character's limits, and it will occasionally make a run at tournaments, all while you don't get any grief for your choice of character (unless the playstyle is super stupid like ICs or something).

I'm happy as long as he's in the game at all of course, but it's okay to want him to at least be decent now that he is in, it's because we're passionate about the character that we bring it up. I'm hopeful that if he sucks that balance patches will help him, in that regard it's better to be awful from the start rather than being good until you're nerfed right before they stop patching the game.

 

[AndreaAC]

I don't think anyone here is jumping ship just because it looks like Ridley might be bad, we didn't have tier placement in mind while supporting him for so many years after all

I mean, the idea of not enjoying Ridley after having to wait 17 or so years to have him finally playable just because people think or are saying that he might be "bad" is just...I don't know. Smash is a game to play the character(s) you want because you like them or even if you just got to know some of them, you find them fun to play as, not to pick or do what other people do or think is "best" or "top tier".

I have seen definitely great Dedede players that pick him out of the appreciation and confidence they deel, and they don't let any of the bashing the character gets in the competitive scene or whatever get them, they just want to have fun and show what someone can achieve when passionate about their characters. I feel whatever happens after the game is released, Ridley is going to be one of the greatest bringers of joy when playing the game, at least I feel that is going to be my case. I already enjoy the heck out of working out ideas and drawing stuff related to him, so this is just going to be the cherry on top of the already wonderful cake.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Prolly already said, but Ridley's kind of between a rock (low-tier) and a hard place (high-tier) when it comes to viability. Making him as broken as Brawl Meta Knight or as trash as Melee Kirby is just inviting people to say "Told you he couldn't work as a playable character".

I'm garbo at the game so tiers don't matter that much to me, so I'll be playing him alongside K. Rool, Simon and Incineroar, but mid-tier seems to be the safest place for him at the moment.

 

[StormC]

Had y'all in mind on Soul Calibur today!

Brothers in arms:

 

[Cosmic77]

I think a lot of people are exaggerating Ridley's weaknesses based on amateur gameplay footage. Just by buffing his recovery alone, you could probably convince people to make him a solid upper mid-tier character.

Regardless of where Ridley lies on the tier list, I wouldn't be concerned just yet. We're bound to receive patches in the future, and I wouldn't be surprised if a few simple changes is enough to make Ridley jump up like Marth and Mewtwo did in Smash 4. He's a new character, so let Sakurai and his team see how he fares online, and they'll make changes from there.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Prolly already said, but Ridley's kind of between a rock (low-tier) and a hard place (high-tier) when it comes to viability. Making him as broken as Brawl Meta Knight or as trash as Melee Kirby is just inviting people to say "Told you he couldn't work as a playable character".

Who cares what detractors think though? They’ve lost the battle, and they’re most certainly not winning the war. We/the metagame just have to find Ridley’s niche.

Brothers in arms:

Cervantes is the only correct playstyle for either character because pirate.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I don't know why I made this.

I feel bad for including Waluigi but I needed someone to represent the guy getting tortured.

 

[Giga Kaiju]

Ridley might be what Yoshi is to Melee, or Pacman to Smash 4, Dedede to Smash 4, etc.

Characters not often seen as playable out there but when you see them it is rewarding and, well, hype.

If anything just see how people react when combos are done with them. Pure astonishment. Ridley might be that type of character, IMO.


.

 

[CamZilla94]

Brothers in arms:

Hell yeah! I'm gonna need to download this.

 

[SmashKeks]

Geez! I initially misread that as Ridley being playable in Metroid Prime 4.
Boy howdy, could you guys imagine!?

Dual playable campaigns in a Metroid game. One of them being for Ridley himself.

I would flip my slop if Ridley got a dedicated playable campaign in a Metroid game of any calibur, but especially a Prime game.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I’m still playing Ridley regardless of tier he’s looking mid tier so far

But what makes me happy it’s looking extremely promising King K. Rool is a high tier

 

[Zem-raj]

https://i.imgur.com/bTudAEk.png

PALUTENA'S GUIDANCE IS BACK!

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

https://i.imgur.com/bTudAEk.png

PALUTENA'S GUIDANCE IS BACK!

I like how pit said

“RIDLEY CONFIRMED!”

 

[Megadoomer]

https://i.imgur.com/bTudAEk.png

PALUTENA'S GUIDANCE IS BACK!

What video is that from?

Hopefully Snake's Codecs are back as well, but it's great to see that these little easter egg conversations weren't left out entirely.

 

[Zem-raj]

What video is that from?

Hopefully Snake's Codecs are back as well, but it's great to see that these little easter egg conversations weren't left out entirely.

This one:

Watch from 5:03 for the Palutena's Guidance bit.

 

[Megadoomer]

Zem-raj Thanks! It's cool to see that the final boss in Classic Mode changes depending on who you're playing as, and it's great that everyone gets Palutena's Guidance conversations. Hopefully that extends to the DLC characters as well, though I doubt it.

Shame that there's still only two Final Fantasy music tracks, though. Maybe new ones weren't unlocked, but Square seems weirdly stingy about this given how great the FF music is.

 

[Zem-raj]

Zem-raj Thanks! It's cool to see that the final boss in Classic Mode changes depending on who you're playing as, and it's great that everyone gets Palutena's Guidance conversations. Hopefully that extends to the DLC characters as well, though I doubt it.

Shame that there's still only two Final Fantasy music tracks, though. Maybe new ones weren't unlocked, but Square seems weirdly stingy about this given how great the FF music is.

I'm curious to know who the final bosses are for characters like Ridley and K.Rool. Maybe they'll have Samus and Donkey Kong respectively (but in Giant form?), or a boss that we haven't seen yet?

 

[IronWarrior94]

Awesome, but I wish Snake's Codecs could've returned aswell. Would love to hear what Snake would think of Ridley.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Also Giga Bowser is the final boss of Mario's Classic mode.

Wonder if the Ridley clone will be Samus's.

 

[meleebrawler]

Also Giga Bowser is the final boss of Mario's Classic mode.

Wonder if the Ridley clone will be Samus's.

Meta Ridley would be probably be more appropriate if the playable version is fought first like Bowser.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Meta Ridley would be probably be more appropriate if the playable version is fought first like Bowser.

Main reason why I thought of Other M Ridley is that the asset does exist thanks to Smash 4, though I suppose nothing is really stopping them from either reskinning Clonely or recycling the Brawl boss fights.

 

[IronTed]

This one:

Watch from 5:03 for the Palutena's Guidance bit.

I love how his lines are basically people's reactions "Ridley confirmed!" and "I never thought I'd have to fight an alien space dragon in Smash". Hope Snake's codecs return, I'd love to see what he'd have to say about it.

 

[slamallama]

I love how his lines are basically people's reactions "Ridley confirmed!" and "I never thought I'd have to fight an alien space dragon in Smash". Hope Snake's codecs return, I'd love to see what he'd have to say about it.

"Otacon, what the h*** am I fighting here?!"

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Traitor!

 

[AndreaAC]

I love how his lines are basically people's reactions "Ridley confirmed!" and "I never thought I'd have to fight an alien space dragon in Smash". Hope Snake's codecs return, I'd love to see what he'd have to say about it.

o3o And I never thought I would actually see Ridley being called a "Space Dragon", as it was mostly what people has adopted to call his species since doesn't really have any. It's great.