Lord of the Rings mafia: Game Over

[adumbrodeus]

Also, reading back these quotes:

In for a second. Any counter claims? Do so now if you have it.

EBWODP: cause i highly doubt he is legit

Why did you track macman, you obviously thought that Vrael was highly scummy, he had a pretty confirmable role.


Your story simply doesn't make sense, I'd like to hear a good reason for this.

 

[McCloud]

. Don't play dumb, I doubt that you don't know what a gravedigger is or at the very least you didn't look it up as soon as you saw the flip, a gravedigger is a miller for trackers, that's why you knew one was in the game.

Not playing dumb. I didn't look it up, and I assumed that a gravedigger is akin to a forensic investigator or mortician.

Why did you track macman, you obviously thought that Vrael was highly scummy, he had a pretty confirmable role.


Your story simply doesn't make sense, I'd like to hear a good reason for this.

Because you don't track a PR claim? It doesn't make sense, even if you doubt it. Why, with the possibility that Vrael and I would be directly ccing each other (before your goofy claim) would I try to follow him? It wouldn't do anything. I'd much rather find the other scum, because that makes it a much easier job of winning rather than wasting a track on a probable CC.

Nothing in my story "doesn't add up," because it's not a story, Everything is there. I say a roleblocker probably exists if there are many power roles (of which there have been claims) but the actions have not been coinciding with scum powers otherwise. I doubt there's a godfather, cause I doubt there's a cop. etc.
I don't leave out the fact that my action could have just simply failed, but I see no reason why it should fail. Is Mac immune to tracks? If you have that power, Mac, speak up. Otherwise, I would assume there's a roleblocker.

Again, the problem is that you directly cc'd me (hilarious) and Vrael is a potential CC. A shame, because I was hoping to be right about my initial push on Macman.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

lol 2 trackers and a cop

it seems to me that vrael has to be lying since it doesnt make sense for there to be a cop in a game with a grave digger.

and **** chaco srry for tunneling =/ i suck at this game now can't help it.

i'm inclined to believe adum but i def need to reread.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Not playing dumb. I didn't look it up, and I assumed that a gravedigger is akin to a forensic investigator or mortician.

How convenient...

Because you don't track a PR claim? It doesn't make sense, even if you doubt it. Why, with the possibility that Vrael and I would be directly ccing each other (before your goofy claim) would I try to follow him? It wouldn't do anything. I'd much rather find the other scum, because that makes it a much easier job of winning rather than wasting a track on a probable CC.

Nothing in my story "doesn't add up," because it's not a story, Everything is there. I say a roleblocker probably exists if there are many power roles (of which there have been claims) but the actions have not been coinciding with scum powers otherwise. I doubt there's a godfather, cause I doubt there's a cop. etc.
I don't leave out the fact that my action could have just simply failed, but I see no reason why it should fail. Is Mac immune to tracks? If you have that power, Mac, speak up. Otherwise, I would assume there's a roleblocker.

Again, the problem is that you directly cc'd me (hilarious) and Vrael is a potential CC. A shame, because I was hoping to be right about my initial push on Macman.

You have a BAD skimming problem.


You missed a very important issue, assuming his VT claim is true, then he has no night action, therefore there was nothing to track, so your power would've failed. So, failing is not evidence of there being a roleblocker, so there's no evidence, this seems contrived to show there's a roleblocker so it's impossible to test by tracking a third party.




Why do you not track a PR claim? Well, at least when the person doing it is as suspicious as Vrael's been? Seriously, you have an incredibly suspicious individual claiming a PR, and with no evidence of a tracker (prior to the gravedigger appearing) there was no reason for him to not to use his abilities if he had any. No action meant likely RB, action in any way inconsistent with what he claims = confirmed scum. Not too hard. Granted he could avoid actions, just in case, but then the other scum is forced to NK and they potentially lose another night action.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

anyone who knows lotr, Is legolas a milleresque character?

 

[McCloud]

not really @mac. He's an elf, so it would be more likely that someone couldn't track him than find him guilty.

How convenient...

I LOVE "How convenient" posts, because it's the go to card for any mafia.

You missed a very important issue, assuming his VT claim is true, then he has no night action, therefore there was nothing to track, so your power would've failed. So, failing is not evidence of there being a roleblocker, so there's no evidence, this seems contrived to show there's a roleblocker so it's impossible to test by tracking a third party.




Why do you not track a PR claim? Well, at least when the person doing it is as suspicious as Vrael's been? Seriously, you have an incredibly suspicious individual claiming a PR, and with no evidence of a tracker (prior to the gravedigger appearing) there was no reason for him to not to use his abilities if he had any. No action meant likely RB, action in any way inconsistent with what he claims = confirmed scum. Not too hard. Granted he could avoid actions, just in case, but then the other scum is forced to NK and they potentially lose another night action.

This relies on the assumption that I believed Mac 100%. And knowing how much I pushed on him the first day, it would be silly to assume that I believe him 100%. I believe his VT claim is true (and I'm fairly confident it is even though I don't have a report on him) not because of reports, but because of you and Vrael's claims. If I didn't get roleblocked, wouldn't Nich send me something like "Mac visited no one?"

Again, you wanting me to investigate a claimed PR would have yielded little information, for the reasons I already explained. With lylo it's better to leave the PRs to cc each other (which is what would have happened today had you not countered my claim) and present reports that verify/nullify other town claims.

 

[McCloud]

EBWODP: I don't have a bad skimming problem. I've probably paid more attention in this game than any of the other games I'm currently playing.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172223

There's your "how convenient" card.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

so after vrael gets lynched, its gonna come down to mccloud vs adum.

 

[McCloud]

Presumably. Like I said, there's a bus here, and in all likelihood it's Adum bussing Vrael, not Vrael bussing you because of adum's claim. Adum made it simple for me, but it's you guys who have to make the choice. I'm just worried that after we get Vrael people will be all "oh adum is right so mccloud must be mafia." -_-

 

[McCloud]

EBWODP: Oh, and I forgot to address this point of Adum's -

You followed the same playerslot TWICE? Jokes dude. You wanna talk about things that a tracker should never do, that's one of them. And "how convenient" (look, I can play that too) that it's on Vrael, who happened to visit OS n1.

 

[Chaco]

Atm, I'm feeling McCloud is telling the truth. Gonna reread though.

 

[adumbrodeus]

EBWODP: Oh, and I forgot to address this point of Adum's -

You followed the same playerslot TWICE? Jokes dude. You wanna talk about things that a tracker should never do, that's one of them. And "how convenient" (look, I can play that too) that it's on Vrael, who happened to visit OS n1.

Yes, to confirm a roleclaim.


Cause when the chips are down, one lie or one confirmed truth often means the difference between winning or losing.


If you're saying it's just convenient, then explain why I went after him so hard. It nicely explains a great deal of what I did throughout the game that makes very little sense in your scenario.


The stuff that I'm pointing out as convenient however did not leave any obvious holes if they didn't happen and frankly strike me as unlikely. Especially that considering you've been playing mafia online a lot longer then me and you didn't recognize the gravedigger role, or at the very least didn't think to automatically wiki a role that you had never encountered before.

 

[Chaco]

Vrael's claim is odd considering he tracked OS N1, so no result.
As well as he put a guilty on Macman.
Cop and Tracker is a no-no. Gravedigger confirms tracker, so this is done for the day.

I wish I hadn't claimed my actions now so that I could check out McCloud, bad decision on my part.

Adum I just find him CCing as a desperate measure, I don't know why.

But we can deal with this tomorrow. I'll be dead for sure, like no doubt. If I'm not, then that's dumb play on their part. Hah.

Hope my gut, and game deduction is right.

Vote: Vrael

 

[McCloud]

The stuff that I'm pointing out as convenient however did not leave any obvious holes if they didn't happen and frankly strike me as unlikely. Especially that considering you've been playing mafia online a lot longer then me and you didn't recognize the gravedigger role, or at the very least didn't think to automatically wiki a role that you had never encountered before.

Dude, I don't know if you noticed, but this was the first mafia game I'd joined in years. I play Epicmafia and I haven't even played regularly over there in months. Gravediggers don't exist over there. There are morticians, who figure out the role of a janitor'd player. And gravediggers, morticians, and forensic investigators all sound like similar roles. Don't try to use experience as a crutch.

Yes, to confirm a roleclaim.


Cause when the chips are down, one lie or one confirmed truth often means the difference between winning or losing.

Yeah, and "confirming" a roleclaim does little when "the chips are down." Either he's scum or he isn't. Getting another report does little, especially since he is already supposedly a direct CC to your claim (hint: he is)

@Chaco, I probably should have claimed with your visit before, but I was hesitant to call you doc when you could have been mafia. With all the claims in, the stakes obviously changed quite a bit.

If you're saying it's just convenient, then explain why I went after him so hard. It nicely explains a great deal of what I did throughout the game that makes very little sense in your scenario.

Going after someone "so hard" isn't indicative of having a power role. I was fairly certain yesterday that Vrael couldn't have been real, and I could have directly CC'd him right then, but it was better to keep it cool and keep my investigation.


@Chaco

Adum I just find him CCing as a desperate measure, I don't know why.

That's because if Adum had any sense he would have cast doubt on your doc claim.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Dude, I don't know if you noticed, but this was the first mafia game I'd joined in years. I play Epicmafia and I haven't even played regularly over there in months. Gravediggers don't exist over there. There are morticians, who figure out the role of a janitor'd player. And gravediggers, morticians, and forensic investigators all sound like similar roles. Don't try to use experience as a crutch.

This is more of a "this is completely basic", a game or two should make it automatic to look up roles that you don't know.

Yeah, and "confirming" a roleclaim does little when "the chips are down." Either he's scum or he isn't. Getting another report does little, especially since he is already supposedly a direct CC to your claim (hint: he is)

Depends, Nic is a new mod and we already had experience with xvivii saying he won't necessarily fix every issue in the game.


To a degree you can get away with metagaming the mod, but without previous games to judge by, it's often near impossible.

Going after someone "so hard" isn't indicative of having a power role. I was fairly certain yesterday that Vrael couldn't have been real, and I could have directly CC'd him right then, but it was better to keep it cool and keep my investigation.

I'm talking about the pattern of my pressuring suggesting I have a PR.




The pressure itself makes it incredibly unlikely that I'm his scumpartner.


Perhaps you'd care to explain why I started pressuring him day 1 and the entire case against him was entirely based on information from that pressure that I pushed?

Why does it make sense to push a scum partner so hard and so early? To the point where I got everyone to listen to me and push for his lynch?



One of the many major holes in your case.

 

[Chaco]

Well, let's lynch Vrael and then call it a day. Because this rules out any option of Adum+McCloud regardless of CC. As they could've easily quicklynched. This is ignoring claim.

Let's end this day so I can be NK'd.

 

[McCloud]

This is more of a "this is completely basic", a game or two should make it automatic to look up roles that you don't know.

It's not that I didn't know, it's that I assumed it was synonymous with the other similarly named roles in terms of actions and abilities.

Depends, Nic is a new mod and we already had experience with xvivii saying he won't necessarily fix every issue in the game.


To a degree you can get away with metagaming the mod, but without previous games to judge by, it's often near impossible.

I don't even know what you're trying to talk about with this.

I'm talking about the pattern of my pressuring suggesting I have a PR.




The pressure itself makes it incredibly unlikely that I'm his scumpartner.


Perhaps you'd care to explain why I started pressuring him day 1 and the entire case against him was entirely based on information from that pressure that I pushed?

Why does it make sense to push a scum partner so hard and so early? To the point where I got everyone to listen to me and push for his lynch?



One of the many major holes in your case.

It's not hard and definitely not too early to bus. A successful gambit against your partner wins you a lot in terms of credibility in forum mafia, so it's easy to see why one would be inclined to make one. Again, this "pressure" relies on the claims from today that you were investigating the (same) player twice.

And I'm relishing the fact that you keep claiming there are holes when every play you make can be easily attributed to a consistent strategy.

Like I said, you should have claimed doc/bg. I was suspicious of you early on, but you were too similar to OS to be scum in my eyes. You could have gotten away with pushing on chaco today if you had claimed. Lul

 

[McCloud]

@Chaco again, we can lynch at anytime. We might as well profit from discussion. You're only alive for today. Talk to us, ask us questions, probe and ponder. It'll give town more information to go off of tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

only read up to chacos voting post

homie what are yu doing, don't end the day so fast. you cant yet trust me not to **** up lylo we need to talk about thisss

 

[Chaco]

I trust you Mac. But for now we can wait, I guess.

 

[McCloud]

-_- usually when people say we should talk, they talk. The actions to you gentlemen...I'm packing to leave Paris. Should be able to answer questions here and there.

 

[Chaco]

I don't think there's anything to discuss, McCloud. Adum's case on you is reaching, and I can see you legitimately tracking me. I don't see his actions lining up, I also see Adum pushing on his scum partner as a gambit which he loves oh so much. As well as trying to scapegoat Vrael with a cop claim, so that it's a win-win. Win, if no one CCs, and win if someone does CC that way the cop is ousted. It's just something I see Adum doing more. I believe you, McCloud, based off of gut and Adum's play. I don't see it as augmented. So, yeah, I think this game is done for me at least. You know who I think is scum, and I know I'm going to die.

Mac, passing the torch to you.

 

[McCloud]

WALP, that works for me. Thanks for the confidence vote.

Mac?

 

[Chaco]

No prob, plus I know Vrael is scum so its no biggie.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It's not that I didn't know, it's that I assumed it was synonymous with the other similarly named roles in terms of actions and abilities.

Frankly, that's ridiculously incredulous, and I don't see how anyone could possibly believe such a weak excuse coming from anyone who's played the game before, let alone somebody who's been playing for as long as yourself.

I don't even know what you're trying to talk about with this.

Simple, it's not a direct counter because the mod may of made an error and put both a cop and a tracker in the same game. It was lylo next game day, I had to be sure.

It's not hard and definitely not too early to bus. A successful gambit against your partner wins you a lot in terms of credibility in forum mafia, so it's easy to see why one would be inclined to make one. Again, this "pressure" relies on the claims from today that you were investigating the (same) player twice.

And I'm relishing the fact that you keep claiming there are holes when every play you make can be easily attributed to a consistent strategy.

Like I said, you should have claimed doc/bg. I was suspicious of you early on, but you were too similar to OS to be scum in my eyes. You could have gotten away with pushing on chaco today if you had claimed. Lul

And cut my overall odds of winning by more then half?

Credibility only goes so far, that's why buses happen when a person is already under signifigant pressure, because at that point, it's not a ridiculous strategic disadvantage, ESPECIALLY in a game this small.

I don't think there's anything to discuss, McCloud. Adum's case on you is reaching, and I can see you legitimately tracking me. I don't see his actions lining up, I also see Adum pushing on his scum partner as a gambit which he loves oh so much. As well as trying to scapegoat Vrael with a cop claim, so that it's a win-win. Win, if no one CCs, and win if someone does CC that way the cop is ousted. It's just something I see Adum doing more. I believe you, McCloud, based off of gut and Adum's play. I don't see it as augmented. So, yeah, I think this game is done for me at least. You know who I think is scum, and I know I'm going to die.

Mac, passing the torch to you.

I'm very confused by this, why's it a "play I love so much"?


The only time I've engaged in bussing period (if you're checking my back records) is when I read glork as figuring out there was a second scum-team and my co-scums elemental claims made them obvious scum and if he didn't figure it out, I realized I was gonna get ignored. The gambits I play in general are generally rather conservative and quite frankly I don't get where this warped meta of me came from.


How's it reaching? One of us has to be lying, and I'm poking at the holes in his story to illustrate it's more likely to be him.


Look, I'd like to convince you Chaco, and I don't mind having this day going on for a while for that to happen, but please, give me something concrete to work with so I can actually illustrate it instead of this gut reaction.

 

[Chaco]

Posted that weird, I mean you love gambits.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I think I understood what you meant, I just don't get where you got that from.



I'd appreciate illustrations of my "gambit-happy" nature, cause as I remember the least conservative gambit I played was "disappearing for a few days while being active on the site so people would get a slight scum read on me to avoid a NK" in CT mafia. Well, there was one I made in FF6 that was a little insane, but that was because of my inexperience and I didn't realize the implications of what I was doing (it was my first online game).


Seriously, I don't understand how you see me as loving gambits.

 

[Chaco]

From OS, mainly. He has more meta experience with you and has always claimed that you love gambits. He was town and had no reason to lie about that.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Then obviously has a very odd opinion about me.


I gather it's primarily derived from my first game which he modded (the gambit was frankly more amusing then effective).

Or, he's interpreting my mistakes as gambits.


Probably mostly A and some of B.

 

[McCloud]

Jesus. ****ing. Christ.

40 hour flight day, vague bomb threats at Charles de Gaulle, someone stalking me, and Chicago throwing one hell of a jealous lovestorm leaving my plane stranded on the tarmac for 3 hours, but at last I've returned to the pridelands.

Update soon.

 

[Chaco]

Still think you're scum, hmm. Mac, thoughts?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Then could you please give me a reasonable case?


And agreed on Mac, he's been rather quiet and I'd like to hear his opinion on this.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i'm procrastinating a reread

give me by tomorrow night

 

[#HBC | Mac]

aiight

time to research, first on my list of mafia games to look at

also vrael has yet to post anything so it looks like he resigned to his fate. so i will just consider him scum

 

[Nicholas1024]

At the advice of my comod, I am setting a deadline.

Deadline is now August 3rd at Noon EST

 

[#HBC | Mac]

adum: why do you think McCloud should have investigated the same person twice. What would that have accomplished?
Why do you believe that there is no roleblocker?
What other games have you been scum in?

mccloud: why do you think adum as scum wud think it smart to cc yur claim as opposed to claim VT and try to get me lynched. I woulda been a much easier option.
Why would adum push a lynch so hard on summoner when noone else was paying attention to him?

i have an idea on who ill vote for but i rather keep my opinion out of it for now

 

[#HBC | Mac]

actually nvm, we can lynch adum after vrael

vote: vrael

i do wanna know what other games yuve been scum in adum

 

[Chaco]

Doesnt matter who, but someone hammer Vrael. Geez.

 

[McCloud]

mccloud: why do you think adum as scum wud think it smart to cc yur claim as opposed to claim VT and try to get me lynched. I woulda been a much easier option.
Why would adum push a lynch so hard on summoner when noone else was paying attention to him?

Cause he knows that Vrael's cop claim is not true and mine is, and having me **** all over Vrael would end up badly for him if he tried to push that line of thought.

Hammering on Vrael.

vote: Vrael

 

[McCloud]

ebwodp: And before adum tries to bring up the fact that I hammered, it's because there has been like 1 post per 2 days in this thread. Discussion is over :/