Links to the Past - A P:M Link video & discussion thread

[Simmonick]

Lots and lots of well placed Ftilts

Wall n' stall with N-Air maybe?

I actually tried to wall with N-air, it was out prioritized by his dash attack . Idk I'm going to keep playing him hopefully and try a few things out. I think the f-tilt idea is actually kind of a good one.

 

[Player -0]

Try Fair (-> Jab if he approaches after your Fair) instead of F-Tilt if you're getting baited. Also pivot grab if he's dash attacking at you.

 

[shapular]

Would you guys mind giving me some quick critique on my Link? I picked him up in Melee two weeks ago and had a lot of fun with him so I started playing him in PM last week (good grief he's so much better). I think he'd make a good complement for my G&W. Here's a couple matches: http://www.twitch.tv/fpsnenflikted/b/569348862?t=2h14m13s

 

[Heero Yuy]

A little outdated but here's a match(es) that I've played with Zhime.

I'll note he was styling a whole lot and wasn't going all-out.

http://www.hitbox.tv/video/209774

 

[Hunter Sidell (Gus)]

Hey guys! I'm a fellow PM Link player in Eastern Washington. I do fairly well in tournaments, and I even won the last weekly that was held in Spokane. Anyway I train with a guy that goes by the tag Freed, and he is able to record and upload all our matches to youtube. So if any of you guys would take the time to watch this video and critique me/give me advice, it would mean the world to me. Thanks! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=njUqSJzaV6U

 

[Player -0]

Remind me and I'll try to when I get home. How you remind someone on Smashboards is beyond me... I'll try to remember lol.

 

[Hunter Sidell (Gus)]

Remind me and I'll try to when I get home. How you remind someone on Smashboards is beyond me... I'll try to remember lol.

Just a reminder.... Lol

 

[Player -0]

I'm checking this during school so the alert won't pop up later

 

[BigHairyFart]

I'm checking this during school so the alert won't pop up later

Then stop checking.

 

[Player -0]

Then stop checking.

But we can't stop, and we won't stop~

Hey guys! I'm a fellow PM Link player in Eastern Washington. I do fairly well in tournaments, and I even won the last weekly that was held in Spokane. Anyway I train with a guy that goes by the tag Freed, and he is able to record and upload all our matches to youtube. So if any of you guys would take the time to watch this video and critique me/give me advice, it would mean the world to me. Thanks! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=njUqSJzaV6U

I only watched a bit the the first match before I had to leave because I didn't forget. Nope.

Anyway:
- On Fast Fallers on medium-low percents use Up Throw (which you did) but when they DI away then dash attack instead of Fair. After that you can follow up with Fair or whatever. If they're low enough you can DA again or Up Air. Higher percents Fair to get them offstage is good.

Edit: Nokia sux.
- I only saw one gimp attempt and the one I saw before leaving was the awkward DD in place -> mis-spaced spin2winscrublol. When edgeguarding there's no need to dash dance typically. Especially if a spacie is below the stage. I think you had enough time to run -> RAR -> grab ledge ->Zair before he Up-Bs and edgehog. If you can't get there in time I would usually run D-Tilt to catch him if he goes for a sweetspot (which they typically should be doing). If it hits then Fair but if he gets ledge make sure he doesn't get back onto the stage. Spin still works at times but for stages spacies can ride the wall to a sweetspot and be fine you shouldn't. If you're playing on Lylat though you can spin or edgehog if he's below the stage, depending on how low he is.

 

[Hunter Sidell (Gus)]

Thanks a lot for the advice. Btw if I'm on the ledge and they make it back on stage, what's the best punish?

 

[BigHairyFart]

Thanks a lot for the advice. Btw if I'm on the ledge and they make it back on stage, what's the best punish?

I like ledge drop>DJ>F-Air/Boomerang

 

[Player -0]

It depends on what character and percent and stage and stuff. What do you mean "get back to the stage?"

 

[Hunter Sidell (Gus)]

Thanks guys for the advice. Anyway I have serious trouble when fighting Falcon. His nair goes through boomerang, and then he's on top of me with jabs and grabs and starts a devastating combo. My question is what's the best way to keep Falcon out? Here's a video I played against a really good Falcon, I would appreciate any feedback that would help me deal with this matchup better. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr-QL6d-uEQ

 

[BigHairyFart]

Thanks guys for the advice. Anyway I have serious trouble when fighting Falcon. His nair goes through boomerang, and then he's on top of me with jabs and grabs and starts a devastating combo. My question is what's the best way to keep Falcon out? Here's a video I played against a really good Falcon, I would appreciate any feedback that would help me deal with this matchup better. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr-QL6d-uEQ

Falcon can be tough for Link, your best option is to camp like a ************. Pick BIG stages, FD and Drac's are good, you want a lot of breathing room. If he's eating your boomerang, throw bombs and Z-Airs. The good part is that his recovery is pretty predictable and generally bad, so he's easy to gimp once he gets offstage.

 

[Fortress]

Spent the better part of my day helping to get our streaming/projection setup up and running today, and we ended up running a small Round Robin at my place today. Got put on the stream a bunch, had a couple of games worth putting up. Twitch split these up into fifteen-minute chucks, of course, so some of these will stretch to the next video.

@10:10 versus @shores (Sonic)

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@9:40 versus DMG (Falco)

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@9:00 versus @Mr. Tumnus (Gay Fairy (Pit))

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[Heero Yuy]

Professor Pro is hands-down the hardest opponent I've ever faced. I felt like I played too flashy/panicky in this set but either way I learned a lot. Please do critique:

 

[Fortress]

Pretty airtight all around. Only things I would suggest would be to wavedash less and moonwalk more in its place. Link's wavedash length is okay for doing some good spacing, but it's really sluggish, and moonwalking has more transitions out of it during any point of performing the technique.

I would also bomb punt a little less. It's a neat trick, and has some unique applications (lay bomb, throw out zAir within striking distance of opponent, laugh at pressure from bomb and zAir hitting them all at once), but it too is a technique that requires a large amount of time to set up. Not only that, but the positioning you have to be in to perform the short-hop-bomb-punt is very specific, and limits your own movement. Just opt instead for AGT bombs. A slow Link is a dead one.

Another thing I would consider is standing still as you throw the boomerang more often. I know that my whole post has been about removing the slower options, but if you're not immediately going into a combo with 'rang, and just trying to gain stage control, throwing it while standing still can be more effective. It does not commit you to a jump arc, meaning that you force a reaction out of your opponent without giving up your own position.

And, lastly, you had some good use of your bombs. I'm a bomb freak, myself, so much so that my go-to pattern is to lay two out, and throw one straight up in the air and hide out under it until it comes down. It gives you a sort of protective wall. An opponent who can't move is one that you've got good control over, and the constant threat of bombs everywhere is one way Link can put that kind of pressure on that people don't always realize is available to him. He can AGT them off of platforms, instant toss them off of the ground, or just leave them there, all at any time he wants. And just having a bomb in the air with the threat of coming down is enough to make most opponents very cautious of jumping in on you, giving you a form of air control.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Thanks Fortress - I really appreciate it.

My item game was derpy at some points because Prof is that much better with items (cuz lolgrenades). Also I had the bad habit of throwing things in his face all the time. I'm not sure why but I usually combo Snakes pretty well. I guess his SDI is really that good.

Also the crouch does make a lot of difference I realize. The only way Link can grab a crouching Snake (or Kirby or Sheik, etc.) is if you land the grabbox on his hand. I feel like if I used the jab-jab-UpB or Dsmash combos on him I would've landed a few more hits.

My main problem seemed to be that I was putting myself into too many situations where I'd get stickied or punished. His mindgames are 2gud. I feel like Link would excel vs Snake on the more vertical spacing, but I'll have to test that out.

I'll hopefully have another shot at Prof next week at a bi-weekly we're both going to. Stay tuned.

 

[MTGod]

@ Heero Yuy I only watched the first two matches (procrastinating *cough*), and I'm mainly here to learn Link myself, so I can't say much for your Link play. However, from a fundamentals point of view, 9/10 techs you did were a roll towards the middle of the stage. There was even a point where you tech'd right in the middle of FD and just normal tech'd it. I come from a scene where the meta is just tech reads all day so I might be more attuned to it, but nonetheless any patterns in gameplay are bad patterns.

Also, if people could give me feedback about this it would be great. Bomberang volley: is it a viable edgeguard option, or was my opponent just bad? ie. should I be going for more traditional edgeguards over these safe ones?
http://www.twitch.tv/marteh/c/5518554

 

[Heero Yuy]

MM with the UK's premier Wario player. All critiques are welcome!

 

[Thor]

Might as well post this... I'm not that good in the first place (though I've worked on some stuff after watching this video), but as a weak defense (john?), I'd literally never played the MU before, and my opponent won the tournament [this is the only footage I have of me from this event]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpqJdFVb-E

 

[BigHairyFart]

Might as well post this... I'm not that good in the first place (though I've worked on some stuff after watching this video), but as a weak defense (john?), I'd literally never played the MU before, and my opponent won the tournament [this is the only footage I have of me from this event]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpqJdFVb-E

You seem to play Link like a rushdown character, just running in and throwing out hitboxes. You'd be better off keeping your distance, and choosing safer options when going in. You also seem to use smashes a lot when tilts would be more appropriate.

Play smart, not hard.

 

[Thor]

You seem to play Link like a rushdown character, just running in and throwing out hitboxes. You'd be better off keeping your distance, and choosing safer options when going in. You also seem to use smashes a lot when tilts would be more appropriate.

Play smart, not hard.

LOL I'm told by many I'm the campiest guy they know XD. One guy said my Link was "Everything wrong with Melee... just shielding forever then grabbing or up+Bing, never approaching, projectiles... so gay..."

The problem was, in the first part of the match I think you see me get rekt trying to setup so I start treating him more like Captain Falcon, where I want to get the rang out and then get in with utilts, jabs, and uairs to do some combos (Since I feel like zoning is so much harder against him and other fast characters). That's not how to fight DK (I've worked on it some, though I don't think I know the MU close to well enough yet).

Just rewatch the start of the second game to see what happens when I manage to get set up a bit. A zillion rangs into a smash into pulling a bomb and more rangs or something like that.

Also I smash way too much indeed XD - I don't use ftilt very well to be honest (and almost never in Melee), so a few less fsmashes would probably be appropriate (I try to fsmash less now) but I know there's at least a few times I wanted utilt and usmash instead so there's that (I do dsmash a ton though... something to change I guess).

Also letting him go to FD was a huge mistake - I need platform support in that MU [I know that now...].

Here's another match (where I was worse, if possible), though I win this one - I think you'll see I'm a bit more campy, but I end up pretty aggressive (I try to play hit-and-run - camp, choose my spots, push, and if they give, combo hard, if not, get out quick - also I tend to try to snuff out approaches with over-the-top options, which is generally a problem [and I get really cocky with the taunt and play terrible 3rd stock]): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKxQo7EzPRc

There's another video of me from this event, but it's basically me getting bopped hard by the Fox that took 2nd - I've taken a lot from the video, but it's painful to watch and I've rehashed it a bunch so I don't feel like posting it here.

 

[VGC Monado Boy]

Link is my favorite in PM i use the hole hyrule rosterMy favorite to use Link is my number one to go

 

[smashplaya]

Tryna learn teh 3.5 Link. Advice?

www.twitch.tv/spacecoyotegaming/b/606795225?t=3h11m54s

And ya I know. There is a couple cringe-worthy recoveries

 

[Thor]

More vids from me if people are interested for any reason:

From 10:30 to end of this: http://www.twitch.tv/legacygamesrosemount/b/609565979

The start is the rest of that set above, and from 19:30 for a while you can see me play a few sets in a row here: http://www.twitch.tv/legacygamesrosemount/b/609577028

I do not know if they will be uploaded to Youtube which is why I link the Twitch video instead.

For the record, I had basically zero Mewtwo experience prior to me fighting one here (I'd played one guy in two friendlies once, and they were after some stuff so it wasn't exactly super serious). So if you think I'm approaching the Mewtwo MU all wrong [especially the start], it's because I didn't really know what I was doing and started adapting [not that I'm sure if I started approaching it right or not even now].

I also hadn't played PM [or Melee] in a while, so although I at least sometimes edgeguard with nair, that was absent because I didn't want to just mess up and die for it (hence me using only dtilt and up+b, which is definitely suboptimal, but better than trying to do something I can't and dying for it).

 

[zman804]

Ic3 nearly took out Heysuess with his Link last Satuday. Good stuff

 

[Beorn]

Ic3 nearly took out Heysuess with his Link last Satuday. Good stuff

Re-watch this and look at the percents link gets killed at...

 

[C2w]

http://youtu.be/2IeH88UOWEY

Anyone have tips for me?

 

[Player -0]

http://youtu.be/2IeH88UOWEY

Anyone have tips for me?

To be honest that Wolf had good tech skill but as a player his decision making wasn't that great. He had no patience or idea of positioning/edgeguarding.

Anyway:
- Learn to edgeguard/edgehog.
- Use dash attack to continue juggles if the opponent gets too far away instead of Up-Smash.
- Use less Up-Smash.
- Use Spin attack less, you're using it in neutral which is just asking to get combo'ed for free.

Pretty much just work on fundamentals.

 

[C2w]

To be honest that Wolf had good tech skill but as a player his decision making wasn't that great. He had no patience or idea of positioning/edgeguarding.

Anyway:
- Learn to edgeguard/edgehog.
- Use dash attack to continue juggles if the opponent gets too far away instead of Up-Smash.
- Use less Up-Smash.
- Use Spin attack less, you're using it in neutral which is just asking to get combo'ed for free.

Pretty much just work on fundamentals.

I hear I should use D Smash instead of U smash, I am afraid of link ask attack because it has so mush end lag

 

[Thor]

I hear I should use D Smash instead of U smash, I am afraid of link ask attack because it has so mush end lag

If you're good at run -> crouch -> dsmash, it can work.

DACUS Usmash is good for extending combos and as an anti-approach in some MUs [most notably Captain Falcon], but it's SDIable, and there are times dash attack to uair or dair is a true combo (at least with poor DI), so dash attack is great for that.

If you really hate dash attack, don't dash attack when the opponent is below about 50% and try to only dash attack when they won't land to tech, and then you won't have to worry about the endlag [the endlag's problem is that it can be CC'd and some characters can nair before dash attack ends - using only while they're airborne and using only at high enough percents to extend fastfaller combos and put floaties above you for uairs avoids these problems]. For extending combos, 2 usmashes is a lot vs anyone good [they'll start SDIing the second one very quickly] - maybe one, but look to utilt or uair if possible [utilt generally sets up for other moves better than usmash, and uair is just a really good move] or maybe fair or nair for an edgeguard setup [or else hit them away and get a bomb since bombs are awesome].

That said, dash attack is so good you'll probably start using it more than just those times, and that's more often than not perfectly fine - but not using Link's dash attack is silly - sure it has endlag, but you use Link's dair, don't you?

Also, dthrow -> up+B should combo on spacies around 120% or so (I think it's sooner in PM, around 80% with bad DI and 100% with good DI, but that's the number in Melee and I know it's a fine number to use in PM), so when you land a grab around that damage, pummel a few times (I'd say 2 to 4 depending on how much they mash - they won't mash out after two pummels so you'll always get the throw, but if they're not quick you can usually manage 3 or 4), then dthrow and spin to win.

Also I really like the combo and option coverage from 4:23-4:29 - you had other good moments as well, but that string and option coverage was very, VERY good [and had one of usmash's best uses involved as well].

 

[Player -0]

To be honest the Wolf could've avoided that by just jumping out or shielding, Link had no way of doing anything to Wolf's full shield and Up-Smash would've been punished fairly easily. I'd only recommend using Up-Smash to cover those options if the opponent is at a high enough percent to go into knockdown and even if they went into knockdown SH Up-Air would've led to more followups and option coverage than Up Smash since opponents can pop out of the third hit fairly easily with decent SDI.

After that though he got a pretty amazing read on the airdodge onto the stage (Wolf could've gone to ledge though, Link doesn't have any options like Math's D-Tilt to prevent him). SH no fast fall Nair would've probably been the best that way you can cover most of the options.

 

[Thor]

If this is supposed to be singles only, then sorry, but it occurred to me I could drop these doubles matches here because why not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISFFAajg4QA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyMyJMhNIqM

Two things to explain in that first video: The SD somewhere in there was me trying to tether, but accidentally glide-tossing and realizing it too late, and at the end of the first video nerves started to get to me so I played pretty poorly in the 1v1.

Also the commentary is kinda sucky [especially first match of the first video], but mute is an option [and it was like 3 in the morning (ran late) so that may be part of it].

 

[Player -0]

If this is supposed to be singles only, then sorry, but it occurred to me I could drop these doubles matches here because why not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISFFAajg4QA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyMyJMhNIqM

Two things to explain in that first video: The SD somewhere in there was me trying to tether, but accidentally glide-tossing and realizing it too late, and at the end of the first video nerves started to get to me so I played pretty poorly in the 1v1.

Also the commentary is kinda sucky [especially first match of the first video], but mute is an option [and it was like 3 in the morning (ran late) so that may be part of it].

Dude, McDonalds though. Will edit this and make some actual criticism in a bit (maybe, my internet is being slow and the video is cutting).

 

[Sur Fartsalot]

Hi so I read some of M2K's stuff, and I remember he said link is someone with great potential. The thing is, I don't really know what he means by that! I tried playingg link, and he just feels really awkward. I can basically only combo using tilts then going into to aerials, but that's basically all. Can anyone explain the potential link has?

 

[Player -0]

This is the video thread...

Also M2K says a lot of stuff. They aren't all true.

 

[Sur Fartsalot]

Don't know any where else too put it sorry. So are you saying link doesn't have a ton of potential?

 

[Player -0]

3.5 Link Discussion is what's mainly being used I think. Link has the potential to be mid to possibly high tier in my opinion.