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Links to the Past - A P:M Link video & discussion thread

Pug

Pug

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
156
Location
Adelaide Hills, South Australia
I could really use some edge-guarding advice. I don't know what my options are when chasing off stage (besides "the neutch"). Here's a video of me wishing I were better at it.

 
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Thor

Thor

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
2,009
Location
UIUC [school year]. MN [summer]
Pug said:
I could really use some edge-guarding advice. I don't know what my options are when chasing off stage (besides "the neutch"). Here's a video of me wishing I were better at it.

Click to expand...
First things first, the advice on edgeguarding:

I personally have practiced taking ledge and being able to plank through most up+Bs with decent timing so that I can force them onstage and just look for dair or reverse fair [or fair at high enough percent].

If you do not wish to do this and/or struggle to do this, fullhop bomb pulls as you move to ledge and then z-dropping the bomb so it will be falling right past the ledge is a great way to disrupt linear recoveries like Marth and Roy, and can lead to a dair or fair [unless they DI hard away].

I haven't messed with it, but grab ledge and double jump away then hookshot right as they up+B and quick reel-in may be worth testing, since it could put you behind their up+B and then taking ledge before they do (much harder vs Roy though, unless they go almost straight-up).

You can also ledge drop double jump nair OR fair then up+B to regrab ledge [fair is very strict timing, nair is generous]. So if they swing at you and you are still invincible, quick ledge drop double jump nair will poke them back out offstage.

----------

Zair is an amazing tool - if they don't DI it, free dair or uair [or usmash or utilt or even fsmash depending on percents and fallspeeds], and if they DI it well, you at least get a free safe bomb pull. It took me playing Italian Ninja [I'm still not clear how I took a game <_<] and I do it sparingly, but I don't think I saw you use the actual hook once, and it's a great poke (it's like -9 on shield but since you're trying to hit with the claw, if spaced well it's basically unpunishable, since wavedash OoS takes at least 13 or 14... Marth's fair OoS MIGHT be a punish and you can CC that and then do stuff to him for that... and most often I use it with boomerang out providing additional coverage).

And the commentators say that uthrow bomb is terrible - they're sort of right - on Marth dthrow sets up into dsmash at 0% [I think - I've done this to multiple Marths and not seen an escape if I make sure to pivot if they DI behind me], utilt at a wide variety of percents, and that utilt can be followed with uair. You can also dthrow spin attack at various percents. Uthrow is okay, but it's really not something you want to do much against Marth unless you're confident in your ability to nair/uair juggle him effectively - the bomb may help that slightly if you read their bomb DI, but they can sometimes "double down" on their DI (hard DI in the same direction) to make that uair or nair hard to get due to weird bomb angles that sometimes occur.

If you can be bothered to learn to DACUS, it's pretty good too - can hit confirm from a boomerang or bomb sometimes and does good percent while usually putting them above you [SDI but it's not easy to do]. Maybe you just didn't do it or I missed it, but I didn't see any and they're pretty good vs airborne Marth since they can mess up his spacing.

--------

If people want to laugh at how horribly I punted on the CSS, here's a long set I played vs a Ganondorf main. You can laugh at my crappy play all you want, but this guy's improved pretty quickly and he's now a pretty solid player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzVpIPvGUNI

I have seen at least limited success with everyone I chose in this video against this player, but the Falcon and Ganondorf were admittedly me doing stupid stuff and hoping it worked (and also trying to have fun since I love playing them in friendlies - backfired big time though. The other characters I play to a limited degree, but Link is the main and Falco is a backup (mained in Melee for a bit, now main Link again, but the Falco keeps improving so I don't hesitate to use it when I'm taken somewhere cramped). Lucario worked in the past but... it didn't seem to work here, especially without the warm-up.

I also sometimes get down on myself and really should try not to - lucky to have made it to the end of this set without beating myself.
 
Heero Yuy

Heero Yuy

#sweg
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
945
Location
In your closet
Haven't been to any tourneys in a while but have been hosting lots of stuff. Here's some vids, though mute the volume please:


 
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Player -0

Player -0

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
5,125
Location
Helsong's Carpeted Floor
Don't really feel like doing a critique right now but for your stream (I know you said mute sound but eh):
- Mute mic for you guys, there's pretty much only clacking, can't hear you guys.
- Change the layout, on the left side it blurs a bit and at the bottom it's messy. Just keep it clean.
- Personally I don't like characters and stuff all over the stream overlay.
- Says Melee
 
Heero Yuy

Heero Yuy

#sweg
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
945
Location
In your closet
Player -0 said:
Don't really feel like doing a critique right now but for your stream (I know you said mute sound but eh):
- Mute mic for you guys, there's pretty much only clacking, can't hear you guys.
- Change the layout, on the left side it blurs a bit and at the bottom it's messy. Just keep it clean.
- Personally I don't like characters and stuff all over the stream overlay.
- Says Melee
Click to expand...
1. Yeah I noticed that too. Will do for future streams if more complain about it. Thanks.
2. I love the layout, not changing it sorry. The blur I have no idea what that was. Hoping it doesn't happen again otherwise I'll try to fix it.
3. Again, you might not like the layout but most people do. Not changing it. Sorry.
4. I dominantly stream Melee. I'll probably make a P:M layout sometime soon tho.
 
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FingerStripes

FingerStripes

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
2

Thoughts on my Link? Current problems I'm trying to work on are finishing moves. I have the tendency to fish for down airs and sometimes throw out bad up-bs
 
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Bazkip

Bazkip

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
3,136
Location
Canada
During a recent set against a Link I had a really wonky whiffed grab and I'm trying to figure out what happened.
You can see it here https://youtu.be/6HPRlwITZgo?t=2m7s

Ganon's grab range is trash but it's definitely not THAT bad.
Somebody suggested that Link's dash attack might shift him in the Z-axis, looking at the animation for it this explanation seems plausible. Does anybody know?
 
NightRaid|tAmA?

NightRaid|tAmA?

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 13, 2014
Messages
51
Bazkip said:
During a recent set against a Link I had a really wonky whiffed grab and I'm trying to figure out what happened.
You can see it here https://youtu.be/6HPRlwITZgo?t=2m7s

Ganon's grab range is trash but it's definitely not THAT bad.
Somebody suggested that Link's dash attack might shift him in the Z-axis, looking at the animation for it this explanation seems plausible. Does anybody know?
Click to expand...
From what I can tell something like this happens pretty ofteen in Marth dittos where sometimes being too close causes grabs to whiff for whatever reason. in this situation it was probably the dash-attack altering ( right word???) link's hurtbox, causing the grab to whiff.
 
Thor

Thor

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
2,009
Location
UIUC [school year]. MN [summer]
Won a tournament today and 76 bucks for it. Might link videos if people are interested but they aren't up yet [3-0'd the 1 seed and current #1 on the PR and beat the 3 seed and #3 on the PR twice in a row 3-2 (WF and GFs)].

I'll link all 4 sets I played on stream [Winner's Round 2, WS, WF, GF] since they were all quite close (I had to make two comebacks in WR2, and WS WF and GF were all hard-fought). Although it probably goes without saying, I only played Link the entire tournament.

[WR2 ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAJA0aq2pdY
[WS, I struck first and chose between Yoshi's and Dreamland] ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-10bAH-gGA
[WF, I struck first, had YS and Battlefield left] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IHR-vN-7Ek
[GF, I struck second, I left open Dreamland and Smashville]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bUvAK-1CJo
 
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Thor

Thor

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
2,009
Location
UIUC [school year]. MN [summer]
PeanutReaper486 said:
Was that a ...bomb thrust recovery?
Click to expand...
Yes, glidetoss downwaird and dair the bomb after I did the regular bomb jump recovery. If it were Melee and my bomb had given me that much height I could just bomb jump again like normal and try to not have that atrocious angle occur again, but for some reason in PM they decided that hitting your own bomb with spin attack should stale the spin attack <_<

[Videos are edited in above. The moment in question that was referenced by PeanutReaper486 was at 7:25 of GFs.]
 
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