Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

[Zelkam]

Dudes, so I've been using the soft throw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqLCgbazuGs a whole bunch ever since I switched to the a-stick, and I just have to talk about it. Not just the fact that it's insanely good, but I wanted to make sure everyone knows how it works and also all of the different ways that it can be done. The vid linked above, while informative and amazing, is slightly off.

First of all, to clarify, the reason why the soft throw works has nothing to do with the slide back in the opposite direction making the throw somehow have less momentum or something. The only difference is in the arch that the Bomb travels when soft thrown forwards as opposed to being soft thrown backwards. When soft thrown forwards, the bomb has a slightly higher arch while when it is soft thrown backwards it is a flatter throw. To see proof of this, go to the stage Jungle Hijinxs, stand over to the right of the main stage, use the a-stick (or just the a button) to throw a bomb forwards towards the leafy platform on the right and it will land on the platform. Now turn around, and use the a-stick to throw a Bomb backwards towards that same platform and it will not land on it.

Because this tech has nothing to do with momentum going backwards, this means three things. The first is that, as alluded to above, you can just use the a-stick from a standing position and throw the bomb backwards and it will land on the ground. The second is that if you want you can do the input for the backwards JC throw instantly, such that it doesn't even look like you moved when in fact you turned around twice very quickly, and it will still work. Furthermore, it means that you can run or dash forwards, hit backwards, and then interrupt the beginning frames of your turn around animation with a JC throw back in the same direction and you'll still get the soft throw effect. If you already knew this, very good, I didn't until just then.

Now for the rant about how good this tech is. The soft throw means that you have an active hitbox out for much longer. While it is bouncing on the ground, it will explode on impact and pop up on shield, and obviously a moment later it will explode of its own accord. Having as many active hitboxes out for as long as possible at any one time is absolutely essential for overwhelming pressure spam. If your opponent is afraid to move or drop their shield, that's good. I like to think of these Bomb mines as being similar to Snakes Nades. Sure, Snakes nades had a larger hitbox and they did more damage and they could be grenade stripped, but Link's soft throw has an active hitbox that will explode on contact when thrown out and Link has a plethora of other tools to keep the pressure on. The zoning and pressure and stage control potential for this tech is actually ridiculous, and by gosh I just had to say something about it. I hope you didn't mind even if this was all old news to you.

This is what I've been saying a while now, that's why I posted those videos with Lawz. I'm glad somebody else is helping advocate for this because I think it's being highly underutilized right now.

I get a funny deja vu feeling when I say this, but I feel like we've got a chance this time. With this tech we have the same sort of stage control that diddy has with his bananas. We already have the same sort of disjointed hitboxes that rosalina has. With all of our projectiles plus Zair I feel like we have the same sort of long range pressure that sheik has. And we don't have an awful recovery holding us back any more. We can make this work if we do work!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Charizard works at 2%.

........

 

[Luigisama]

Can diddy z drop a banana to escape the jab chain?
Can pacman, rob, villager, z drop their items to escape? Also can duck hunt squeeze out a bomb and can yoshi super armor jump out of the jab chain?

 

[Knife8193]

You know what? I think I want jab locking to get patched out. Ever since it was discovered we've gotten a plethora of try hards looking for the easy win.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing I would love more than for Link to be viable and for there to be more people to love him the way we do. However, if that viability comes at the cost of Link's name being dragged through the mud and becoming a community joke like little mac or diddy kong then no thank you. Link mains are proud and hard working and I won't have that tarnished for the sake of tier placement.

I don't see many bandwagoners because of this tbh. It's somewhat difficult to master, not to mention you still need to learn Link's neutral game (which is difficult to master as well). It's not as easy as say, Diddy's hoohah. We'll see.

Where are the try hards at though? Let's get em?

 

[Lawz.]

This is what I've been saying a while now, that's why I posted those videos with Lawz. I'm glad somebody else is helping advocate for this because I think it's being highly underutilized right now.

I get a funny deja vu feeling when I say this, but I feel like we've got a chance this time. With this tech we have the same sort of stage control that diddy has with his bananas. We already have the same sort of disjointed hitboxes that rosalina has. With all of our projectiles plus Zair I feel like we have the same sort of long range pressure that sheik has. And we don't have an awful recovery holding us back any more. We can make this work if we do work!

I don't know how people could NOT be using soft bomb throws. It forces people to work around them because it just bounces to their feet. It's, in my opinion, Links most useful technique in this game.

 

[Knife8193]

Can diddy z drop a banana to escape the jab chain?
Can pacman, rob, villager, z drop their items to escape? Also can duck hunt squeeze out a bomb and can yoshi super armor jump out of the jab chain?

If they could, that wouldn't help very much since its as situational as Link holding a bomb during a Brawl chaingrab.

But good question, I'm curious as well.

 

[Zelkam]

If they could, that wouldn't help very much since its as situational as Link holding a bomb during a Brawl chaingrab.

But good question, I'm curious as well.

It's more common for a diddy to be hanging on to a banana though because they don't have a fuse like our bombs

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Can diddy z drop a banana to escape the jab chain?
Can pacman, rob, villager, z drop their items to escape? Also can duck hunt squeeze out a bomb and can yoshi super armor jump out of the jab chain?

I'm about to go to bed but I'll look into this tomorrow and quote you again so you know. (It's freakin 4:20am for me.) But I can tell you already that Yoshi's DJ armour doesn't help because the percent listed doesn't let Yoshi DJ at all.

 

[luke_atyeo]

Its always the way isn't it, someone discovers a tech and people come out of the woodwork to tell you about how they 'knew about it all along since like release man' and start making claims as if because they knew about it first they are better then everyone else.
If there is a god I'd like to have a word with him about quality control.

 

[Lawz.]

Its always the way isn't it, someone discovers a tech and people come out of the woodwork to tell you about how they 'knew about it all along since like release man' and start making claims as if because they knew about it first they are better then everyone else.
If there is a god I'd like to have a word with him about quality control.

I just can't wait to see how many people will hop in here saying "I've been using Link for a while blah ****ing blah".

I laugh every time I enter this thread seeing 10 guests staring at this page. I hope people use this character, try to do the jab tech, get bodied, and then go back to never using him again.

 

[link7]

I'm about to go to bed but I'll look into this tomorrow and quote you again so you know. (It's freakin 4:20am for me.) But I can tell you already that Yoshi's DJ armour doesn't help because the percent listed doesn't let Yoshi DJ at all.

@Zane the pure Hey Zane, you want to save Foxy the trouble and let him sleep? We could try this.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I'm really starting to see how dumb the jab 1 chain is now. I agree to having this nerfed. This gives us Link mains a bad look, and is a stain in the cloth that is the product of all our hardships over the years. I would really love to see Link excel in Sm4sh's meta, but not like this.

However, I don't want Nintendo to over-nerf the hell out of Jab 1 or nerf it in some stupid way just because of this issue. It only takes one thing to do away with the stupidity, while still having it be an amazing move; Just either nerf significantly, or get rid of completely, whatever makes jab 1 keep people in place.

And there you have it. Plain and simple, nothing lost. You can still use jab 1 as an extremely effective setup tool just like you can now, and you might even still be able to jab chain, only without it being a ******** indefinite on most characters. The word needs to go out, people. Hope some of you guys are willing to help the cause.

 

[Dan Salvato]

I don't expect this to give Link mains a bad look. It still takes solid play to land the jab in the first place, and no Link player can expect to be carried by the technique. You're right that it's pretty dumb, but it's not as dumb as, say, infinite chain grabs in Brawl which invalidate a bunch of the cast.

My rule of thumb is that if Links aren't winning majors then it's no big deal. Despite this technique, the only Links who do well in tournament will be the ones who are incredibly skilled regardless.

 

[Dumbfire]

Someone has mentioned before that Jab cancelling is 'supposed' to be in the game, insofar as there is an in-game tip telling you about it, but that tip tells you to use Utilt or Dsmash instead of the third hit -- after Jab2, and not Jab1. How exactly they did not release Jab1 gives you a far greater advantage I do not know.

 

[Deleted member]

I would honestly just feel cheap if I were to make use of the whole Jab Lock thing.

I'd rather work for the win and prove my skill then use an (depending on the character and %) inescapable thing that amounts to nothing more than holding the control stick at a certain angle and tapping A to a certain rhythm.

Meh.

 

[Zelkam]

Someone has mentioned before that Jab cancelling is 'supposed' to be in the game, insofar as there is an in-game tip telling you about it, but that tip tells you to use Utilt or Dsmash instead of the third hit -- after Jab2, and not Jab1. How exactly they did not release Jab1 gives you a far greater advantage I do not know.

One of those tips also says that Link's fully charged arrow flies "perfectly straight"

 

[DarkDeity15]

Ah, I see. However still, it's very likely at this point that Nintendo will consider nerfing jab 1 to address the jab 1 indefinite combo anyways, so it's probably best to let them know the best way to do so. In the meantime, we should start using this to our advantage and win a few tournaments with it before the Mewtwo patch arrives, in case Nintendo really is planning a nerf...we must claim our revenge while we can.

 

[Zelkam]

Ah, I see. However still, it's very likely at this point that Nintendo will consider nerfing jab 1 to address the jab 1 indefinite combo anyways, so it's probably best to let them know the best way to do so. In the meantime, we should start using this to our advantage and win a few tournaments with it before the Mewtwo patch arrives, in case Nintendo really is planning a nerf...we must claim our revenge while we can.

Implying that Nintendo listens to what we think, let alone knowns we exist.

 

[luke_atyeo]

This new tech really feels like its the new wobbling, the two are very similar.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Implying that Nintendo listens to what we think, let alone knowns we exist.

They do, actually. It may take effort, but there's still a chance they might see. Especially with how observant of our gameplay they need to be in order to call nerfs or buffs. And cut the faggetry. Spitting those old ass, beat-to-death remarks at people in no way makes you look smart.

 

[link7]

This new tech really feels like its the new wobbling, the two are very similar.

Isn't wobbling more broken though? With the exception of a few characters, you have to rack up a fair amount of damage before you can utilize Link's infinite. Wobbling, the percentage was much lower and worked on everyone.

 

[FGC-Oni]

I don't think they'll patch it. Sakurai said and I quote...

"In the future, do you plan on adjusting or balancing the game further through a patch?

Sakurai: We don't have any such plans, but at the very least we will be working on a few things connected to the online play experience, bit by bit."

I mean the jab tech it's dirty but it's not game-breaking. I managed to pull this off online earlier today but its so hard to space the opponent to even start the jab cancels. Even when you get them you have to have reasonable timing with the jabs or else you'll get jab 2 or even 3. I think it's going to change match-ups a lot and I feel like the more well known this becomes the more we will see scrubby players attempt it. Sadly tarnishing Link's reputation, however in high level play I see this being something not a lot of people will like seeing.

I would rather keep it in the game because to make his jab slower or not able to connect properly to tilts and such would make Link worse.

 

[Zelkam]

They do, actually. It may take effort, but there's still a chance they might see. Especially with how observant of our gameplay they need to be in order to call nerfs or buffs. And cut the faggetry. Spitting those old ***, beat-to-death remarks at people in no way makes you look smart.

I wasn't attempting to look intelligent, but it means a lot to me that you saw it that way.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I don't think they'll patch it. Sakurai said and I quote...

"In the future, do you plan on adjusting or balancing the game further through a patch?

Sakurai: We don't have any such plans, but at the very least we will be working on a few things connected to the online play experience, bit by bit."

I mean the jab tech it's dirty but it's not game-breaking. I managed to pull this off online earlier today but its so hard to space the opponent to even start the jab cancels. Even when you get them you have to have reasonable timing with the jabs or else you'll get jab 2 or even 3. I think it's going to change match-ups a lot and I feel like the more well known this becomes the more we will see scrubby players attempt it. Sadly tarnishing Link's reputation, however in high level play I see this being something not a lot of people will like seeing.

I would rather keep it in the game because to make his jab slower or not able to connect properly to tilts and such would make Link worse.

Yeah but we don't really know what he considers game-breaking, and Sakurai has a reputation of not keeping his word on things, though I doubt it will be Sakurai balancing the game anyways, or at least will much say. He's in desperate need of a vacation, after all. But you can't say there won't be a balance patch when the Mewtwo DLC is out. That's common sense.

 

[Elessar]

Yeah but we don't really know what he considers game-breaking, and Sakurai has a reputation of not keeping his word on things, though I doubt it will be Sakurai balancing the game anyways, or at least will much say. He's in desperate need of a vacation, after all. But you can't say there won't be a balance patch when the Mewtwo DLC is out. That's common sense.

Implying Sakurai has common sense.

 

[Knife8193]

In order to pull this off, it feels like you also have to hit the sweetspot in the center of the blade to actually keep them in. Hit too far and they can DI away out before the 2nd/3rd Jab 1. Hit too close and they can DI towards Link to escape. It's not like DI has no effect at all, just minimal. I was testing against Sonic anyway.

Has anyone actually been using this consistently in live matches? If so, vids?

I really don't think this is as broken/game changing as we think, until some results are shown.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Implying Sakurai has common sense.

Implying that only Sakurai is balancing the game.

 

[Elessar]

In order to pull this off, it feels like you also have to hit the sweetspot in the center of the blade to actually keep them in. Hit too far and they can DI away out before the 2nd/3rd Jab 1. Hit too close and they can DI towards Link to escape. It's not like DI has no effect at all, just minimal. I was testing against Sonic anyway.

Has anyone actually been using this consistently in live matches? If so, vids?

I really don't think this is as broken/game changing as we think, until some results are shown.

If indeed it need to be sweetspotted then no, it's not as game breaking initially, but it still has the potential for it. Only time will tell though.

Implying that only Sakurai is balancing the game.

You do realize that not only is he the director who has a final say on everything that get's done, he's also a control freak who loves overseeing and doing everything personally. That's why he's burned out, and that's why he was the person in charge of balancing of both Melee and Brawl. The team in charge for this smash was the Tekken team, but after launch Namco pulled out and now Sora manages the patches. That's Sakurai.

So yeah, it's still his call at the end of the day.

 

[DarkDeity15]

If indeed it need to be sweetspotted then no, it's not as game breaking initially, but it still has the potential for it. Only time will tell though.



You do realize that not only is he the director who has a final say on everything that get's done, he's also a control freak who loves overseeing and doing everything personally. That's why he's burned out, and that's why he was the person in charge of balancing of both Melee and Brawl. The team in charge for this smash was the Tekken team, but after launch Namco pulled out and now Sora manages the patches. That's Sakurai.

So yeah, it's still his call at the end of the day.

I do. But Nintendo is probably pressuring him to take it easy, so yeah. Though I was not aware of Namco not being involved anymore. Do you mind citing where you got this info? I don't mean to question your knowledge however.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Implying that Nintendo listens to what we think, let alone knowns we exist.

They know we exist and they pay attention.

They removed the ZSS infinite on Robin for example.

I don't think they'll patch it. Sakurai said and I quote...

"In the future, do you plan on adjusting or balancing the game further through a patch?

Sakurai: We don't have any such plans, but at the very least we will be working on a few things connected to the online play experience, bit by bit."

I mean the jab tech it's dirty but it's not game-breaking. I managed to pull this off online earlier today but its so hard to space the opponent to even start the jab cancels. Even when you get them you have to have reasonable timing with the jabs or else you'll get jab 2 or even 3. I think it's going to change match-ups a lot and I feel like the more well known this becomes the more we will see scrubby players attempt it. Sadly tarnishing Link's reputation, however in high level play I see this being something not a lot of people will like seeing.

I would rather keep it in the game because to make his jab slower or not able to connect properly to tilts and such would make Link worse.

He said no plans at the moment.

Not that, there are no patches for balance in the future or ever.

 

[FGC-Oni]

They know we exist and they pay attention.

They removed the ZSS infinite on Robin for example.



He said no plans at the moment.

Not that, there are no patches for balance in the future or ever.

It says verbatim "In the future" and he replies "We don't have any such plans". Where are you getting the whole "at the moment" thing from? He said any future patches would be related to the online experience.

 

[Lawz.]

It says verbatim "In the future" and he replies "We don't have any such plans. Where are you getting the whole "at the moment" thing from? He said any future patches would be related to the online experience.

Him saying "we don't have any such plans" is not him saying "There will never ever be patches". He just said they weren't planning on it at that time. Again, it does not mean there will never be a patch.

 

[Elessar]

I do. But Nintendo is probably pressuring him to take it easy, so yeah. Though I was not aware of Namco not being involved anymore. Do you mind citing where you got this info? I don't mean to question your knowledge however.

Can't find it now, but this article clearly states that it's Sora the one releasing the patches, not Namco.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It says verbatim "In the future" and he replies "We don't have any such plans". Where are you getting the whole "at the moment" thing from? He said any future patches would be related to the online experience.

Like Laws said people are jumping the gun and taking stuff out of context or twisting his words.

They are working on the Miiverse Stage, Tournament mode and Mewtwo right now along with working on online play and some minor fixes.

He said he might and would consider it in a later interview, just right now they are working on the three above things first before anything else.

 

[FGC-Oni]

Him saying "we don't have any such plans" is not him saying "There will never ever be patches". He just said they weren't planning on it at that time. Again, it does not mean there will never be a patch.

Well if it's gonna happen as DarkDeity said, its most likely to occur once Mewtwo is released next month.

 

[Lawz.]

Well if it's gonna happen as DarkDeity said, its most likely to occur once Mewtwo is released next month.

That would be the appropriate time to do so.

 

[Elessar]

Like Laws said people are jumping the gun and taking stuff out of context or twisting his words.

They are working on the Miiverse Stage, Tournament mode and Mewtwo right now along with working on online play and some minor fixes.

He said he might and would consider it in a later interview, just right now they are working on the three above things first before anything else.

It should also be noted that right before saying that they wouldn't do it because the process would never end he mentioned customs. So he was talking about balancing the customs, but I think he meant it in general. Now, if someone here actually spoke japanese... @Venus of the Desert Bloom

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It should also be noted that right before saying that they wouldn't do it because the process would never end he mentioned customs. So he was talking about balancing the customs, but I think he meant it in general. Now, if someone here actually spoke japanese... @Venus of the Desert Bloom

It was already translated accurately from what I recall on Reddit.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

My new favorite thing to do in FG is throw the gale straight as the opponent jumps over it, followed by a jab combo and immediately ready an Fsmash. This knocks the opponent back but forces him or her to be caught in the gale and as he comes back, let that Fsmash do the rest.

 

[Elessar]

It was already translated accurately from what I recall on Reddit.

I'm not questioning the translation, I just want a confirmation. If I remember correctly, Japanese is a a tough language to translate into English since it has a lot of subtleties and the syntax can be rather tricky.

Also, I am a professional translator so I know that sometimes even an accurate translation may leave something out. As I said, just trying to get more than one opinion on it.