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Link- Underrated?

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Oneupsalesman

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I've been using Link a lot lately, and I have to say that despite his low-tier rating I find him to be a character that isn't that bad if used right. I hate to bring a tier-debate out, but I feel like even though he has a pretty crappy recovery, Link isn't too bad of a character.

As far as pros, I'd say that Link can have both of his projectiles on screen at the same time, so that makes for some possibly useful strategy. He has a long-distance grab as well.

Then, on Link's cons, I'd say he's very slow, he has a a short-distance recovery, and a lot of his attacks take a bit of time to actually connect compared to the instant hits of made of some characters like Captain Falcon, Pikachu and Fox.



Despite his low-tier ranking, I would say that while Link might not be the best character he can still be used well in some circumstances and shouldn't be considered a useless character as some do.
 

Sangoku

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Have you won any major tournament/event with Link?

Have you played any good players with Link?

Are you even playing at a competitive level?

Have you seen others (top players) play Link in a way that it would prove your point?

See, I could say the same stupid "character X is good when you use him right" argument... But I doubt any of the above questions can be answered positively.

Now maybe you are trolling, but since I fail at noticing trolls when they are newcomers, I'll just take it as serious.
 

ciaza

Smash Prodigy
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no one considers link a 'useless' character; this is smash 64, everyone can be played well if 'used right'. link suffers on most legal stages other than hyrule and can be gimped very easily. he certainly has priority and the ability to out-camp others, but ultimately the tier list is match-up based and link just doesn't fare too well against most of the cast.

but it is good to see you posting your opinions and asking questions

quit being a fuddy-duddy squall =p

inb4 aa comes in and gives a hella more detailed response than me
 

King Omega

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Link might be underrated if he had a recovery. As it stands, he really doesn't, so he is exactly as bad as most people say he is.

Like ciaza said, you can't count anyone out because of character. Go watch Isai's Link winning tournament matches against Boom's and Jaime's high-tiers (although rarely Pikachu).
 

Oneupsalesman

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Have you won any major tournament/event with Link?

Have you played any good players with Link?

Are you even playing at a competitive level?

Have you seen others (top players) play Link in a way that it would prove your point?

See, I could say the same stupid "character X is good when you use him right" argument... But I doubt any of the above questions can be answered positively.

Now maybe you are trolling, but since I fail at noticing trolls when they are newcomers, I'll just take it as serious.
I am definitely not that great of a player compared to some; there aren't many people around me that will actually play Smash Bros., and even then they rarely agree to.
 

asianaussie

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link is ****ing amazing, haters gonna hate

sangoku the OP made a lot of good points, including the fact that link's moves are on-the-whole relatively slow to come out, which is overlooked by a LOT of noobs
 

Sangoku

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Okay, maybe I was a little harsh. At least he tried to bring arguments to his point.

As far as pros, I'd say that Link can have both of his projectiles on screen at the same time, so that makes for some possibly useful strategy. He has a long-distance grab as well.
I don't see how the long-distance grab is an advantage. On the contrary, the implied ending lag makes his grab really unreliable (unlike heavy grabbers, like pikachu and DK and Falcon and... well almost all the cast). There are some gimicky use, like after a late Dair/Uair on shield or a Fair on shield or against a recoverying Yoshi, but it's really not that great and definitely not spammable like other 64 grabs.

Then, on Link's cons, [...] and a lot of his attacks take a bit of time to actually connect compared to the instant hits of made of some characters like Captain Falcon, Pikachu and Fox.
That doesn't make sense. What counts for a chain of attacks to be a combo is simply that each attack lands before the hitstun wears out. You can take a long time to connect (like with a falcon grounded dair to something at high percent), or quickly connect (a pika/fox utilt juggle for example), it doesn't matter. Both are combos. Or maybe by "connect" you didn't mean "attack while still in hitstun"? Because most of the time we talk about "connecting", it's inside of a combo I think. (Like "this is not a legit combo, the first two hits didn't connect.").

Despite his low-tier ranking, I would say that while Link might not be the best character he can still be used well in some circumstances and shouldn't be considered a useless character as some do.
That's true and none of the cast is useless. As ciaza said, this is smash 64, where the characters are really well balanced. One should always keep in mind what tier lists actually mean... It is only appliable for the supposedly highest current level of play. Link's placing on the list has almost no influence compared to difference in terms of skill between players. That's why I could beat people that are a little bit worse than me with Link.
 

King Omega

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You remember the steps to bomb recovery, right? Where the last one is "die anyway?" That's Link in a nutshell.
 

The Star King

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What the **** happened to my post I made a decent one discussing Link's pros and cons after Oneupsalesman's most recent post and I am sure this happened I think my post got 502'd **** that ****
 

asianaussie

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star king, i had a post a lot like that, but then i realised ciaza pre-empted me on it so i deleted it out of spite, and here we are

link has excellent camping ability, decent hitboxes in general (some of which are disjointed), a good d-air, excellent camping ability, fairly simple combo confirms from a number of moves, good kill moves, excellent camping ability and he's a pretty cool dude on his stomping ground hyrule castle, boasting advantages over some higher tier characters that other low tiers can only dream of (as well as pretty baller matchups vs low-tiers)

his attacks are, on the whole, quite slow to come out (arguably his worst weakness), he has that horrid recovery, he has arguably the worst shield in the game (due to lack of good options out of it) and he's easily juggled, which all contribute to make him one of the most susceptible to pressure and punishment in the whole game
 

The Star King

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Time to sum stuff up out of spite then aa

Link's neutral game is top tier. Link's escaping dangerous situations and survivability is bottom tier. Link's punishment game is low-mid tier.
 

Olikus

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on DL. link dies if he gets hit one time by allmost all caracthers.

his good on hyrule though.
 

Socratic Method

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Have you won any major tournament/event with Link?

Have you played any good players with Link?

Are you even playing at a competitive level?

Have you seen others (top players) play Link in a way that it would prove your point?

See, I could say the same stupid "character X is good when you use him right" argument... But I doubt any of the above questions can be answered positively.

Now maybe you are trolling, but since I fail at noticing trolls when they are newcomers, I'll just take it as serious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B86CiORdNQ

Lsai was runner up in Apex 2012 by playing with Link the whole time and the final match was super close. So yeah Link is good and can win at the competitive level. You just have to figure out how to use him right.
 

Olikus

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B86CiORdNQ

Lsai was runner up in Apex 2012 by playing with Link the whole time and the final match was super close. So yeah Link is good and can win at the competitive level. You just have to figure out how to use him right.
Use isai as an example is pretty wild. Then you can say all caracthers are best because isai ***** in 12 caracther battle, and play all caracthers on a very high level.
 

Sangoku

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OMG I had never seen that set before O_o. This Lsai seems really good, I think this Lsai proved me I was wrong. Link can be very dangerous, he's being underrated!!

:phone:
 

The Star King

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B86CiORdNQ

Lsai was runner up in Apex 2012 by playing with Link the whole time and the final match was super close. So yeah Link is good and can win at the competitive level. You just have to figure out how to use him right.
Yes, and "Lsai" would have done even better with the high tiers... We all know you *can* do well with any character, this game is balanced bro
 

Socratic Method

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Yes, and "Lsai" would have done even better with the high tiers... We all know you *can* do well with any character, this game is balanced bro
Obviously lol. I admit your at a huge disadvantage right out of the gate, and even though it is so much easier to win with a character like Pikachu or C. Falcon, I respect Link too much and imo it is so much more fun and rewarding to play as Link with the right strategies and win then with other players because you have to really work for it and adapt.
 

KoRoBeNiKi

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Time to sum stuff up out of spite then aa

Link's neutral game is top tier. Link's escaping dangerous situations and survivability is bottom tier. Link's punishment game is low-mid tier.
This is a great summary. Highlighted for everyone else. Though I would say that wit a bomb, escaping dangerous situations isn't that bad. Without one..well....yeahhhhh


Though in my opinion, Link is top of mid or so in Hyrule only (below Mario or so) but due to DL and Congo being legal, it makes him that bad.
 

Krynxe

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Yeah I can agree to that. In general, fantastic neutral, mediocre to poor offense, poor defense. Link's offense seems to mostly lack mostly due to hit lack of mixups, having very poor ground game and all, and lacking a viable grab for reliable approaching. Fortunately, Link doesn't need to approach much, however this is huge deficit when Link is under pressure without a bomb.

Anyways, this game has been out for 13 years. At this point in the metagame, I'm pretty confident that no character is either underrated nor overrated
 

The Star King

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it is so much more fun and rewarding to play as Link with the right strategies and win then with other players because you have to really work for it and adapt.
You can say that about any low tier. But I am glad you enjoy Link :)

Anyways, this game has been out for 13 years. At this point in the metagame, I'm pretty confident that no character is either underrated nor overrated
False. Look how long it took for people to realize Ness is bad.
Also Luigi is overrated, and Mario a bit too.

Though in my opinion, Link is top of mid or so in Hyrule only (below Mario or so) but due to DL and Congo being legal, it makes him that bad.
I think Link is the best character after the top 4 on Hyrule. Apparently Boomfan thinks Link is third best on Hyrle.
 

Fish641

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Some respected player (can't remember who atm) believes that Link has the advantage against Kirby on Hyrule. Don't know that it's a popular opinion though.
 

asianaussie

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if you circle camp and run the hell away and play super mega giga 1000000% gay and enjoy having no friends then link > kirby on hyrule yeah

Anyways, this game has been out for 13 years. At this point in the metagame, I'm pretty confident that no character is either underrated nor overrated
oh man

if this is a sarcastic comment then it gets a thumbs up, if not then you have to lurk the boreds more
 

Sangoku

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Yeah, Krynxe you're dumb, everyone knows Link, Luigi and Ness are underrated. You probably don't know that Luigi's UpB is the best in the game if you hit quickly and Ness is one of the best once mastered. Link is so strong with his sword too (remember to watch Lsai for more proves).
 

Oneupsalesman

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I'd think we're all old enough here that we don't have to call people "dumb" for stupid reasons when we can just intelligently state why we're think they're wrong without having to try and offend them.
 
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