Link matchups (for the matchup chart in the brawl tactical discussion)

[Lootic]

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I guess you all know that there is a matchup chart devoloping in the brawl tactical discussion and there is almost nothing about link in it.
So post all your thoughts about links advantages(or disadvantges) over certain characters here.
Hopefully this thread will also reduce the amount of Tlink better than link threads here in the link boards.

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Matchup chart : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157979

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Forget my stupid rules write what the heck you want.
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Matchups so far:

Updates:
dates for updates is in GMT +1
(updated 13/4 due to thoughts by FmAiGkGeO and Nox(Maikeru17))
(updated 14/4 due to thoughts by Lucrece and Phoenix_Down)
(updated 15/4 due to thoughts by Metro Knight, Thechene, Khai(ImpactAR) and lime_backwards)
(updated 30/4 due to thoughts by Thechene and henrytran)


Bowser: Advantage 2
C.Falcon: Advantage
Charizard: Neutral : Advantage 1 : 1
Diddy Kong: Neutral : Disadvantage 1 : 1
Donkey Kong: Neutral : Advantage 1 : 2
Falco: Neutral : Disadvantage 1 : 3
Fox: Disadvantage 2
G&W: Neutral
Ganon: Advantage : Disadvantage 1 : 1
Ice climbers: Neutral
Ike: Advantage 2
Ivysaur: Disadvantage
Jiggs: Advantage 2
King D3: Neutral : Advantage : Disadvantage 1 : 1 : 1
Kirby: Advantage
Lucario: Disadvantage
Lucas: Advantage : Disadvantage 1 : 2
Luigi: Neutral
Mario: Neutral : Advantage : Disadvantage 1 : 1 : 2
Marth: Advantage : Disadvantage 1 : 1
Meta Knight: Neutral
Ness: Advantage : Disadvantage 1 : 1
Peach: Advantage
Pikachu: Neutral : Disadvantage 0,5 : 0,5
Olimar: Neutral : Advantage 0,5 : 1,5
Pit: Disadvantage 2
R.O.B: Advantage 2
Samus: Disadvantage
Sheik: Advantage : Disadvantage 1 : 2
Snake: Neutral : Advantage : Disadvantage 1 : 1 : 1
Sonic: Advantage
Squirtle: Disadvantage
Toon Link: Neutral : Disadvantage 1 : 1
Wario: Advantage
Wolf: Disadvantage 2
Yoshi:
Zelda: Disadvantage
Zamus: Disadvantage

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The numbers to the right is telling you how many people has thought what. Its kind of a voting system. If there is something wrong with my numbers or you want a better explanation or layout tell me.

 

[Maikeru17]

The King of the Cosmos is King 3D.
I'd change that to King D3, if I were you.

Link is the Anti-Marth.

IMO, Link has a nice advantage over most characters on the roster.
The one's to really look out for would be TLink, Lucario, Snake, Zamus, Sheik, Squirtle, Diddy, and King DeDeDe.

Anyone else is on even terms or has a disadvantage.


And no, I don't feel I'm giving too much credit to Link.

-Nox`

 

[Aurashade]

I have no criticism except to say that this is really neat.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I have nothing to say except that I think Link has a disadv. vs. Zamus.

 

[IvanEva]

Yeah, this will be pretty helpful for the chart. Hopefully a lot of people will help post here.

 

[FmAiGkGeO]

I have been practicing with a friend and he always beats my olimar. He's an Ike main with link as his sub. I can destroy his Ike, but link always kills off all my pikmin and spaces me so I can never get a strong attack in. Links neutral air also has higher priority than Olimars up smash. Which is the main KO move I use (and assume most others use).I would say advantage on Link's side when vs Oli.

 

[Lootic]

only 5 comments in 3 day im a bit disappointed. I want everyone to post ,it doesnt matter if you are a pro who knows everything or a noob that just signed up, theres nothing wrong with asking question like: Isnt Links projectiles so good that he has advantage over sqiurtle? Just throw it out ther for the sake of the discussion.

If you are afraid of flamers then you just are a ****ing coward. Play My Horse or something, cause brawl is far to violent for you.

 

[Lucrece]

Comments like that won't help, Lootic. Reverse psychology isn't likely to get you anywhere.

Now, on to my thoughts on Link:

Bowser: Easy. Any character that does not have projectiles is easy meat for a good Link.

C.Falcon: Same.

Charizard: Has good spacing abilities, but it is still not enought to beat a Link that properly uses projectiles to create setups.

Diddy Kong: Neutral, is not a bit on Link's favor. Diddy's speed and offense is countered by Link's incredibly good defensive game and projectiles.

DK: Easy.

Falco: Easiest of Space Animals, but still tough. So-so ground game, but amazing aerials to juggle you with. His projectiles outdo Link's.

Fox: Hard. His approach and projectiles makes it hard for Link to engage in setups.

G&W: Neutral, if a bit on the hard side. God****ed bucket.

Ganon: Easy.

IC: Neutral

Ike: Has a poor approach game; camping will do wonders against him.

Ivysaur: Tough. Can outrange melee attacks, and razor leaf eliminates your projectiles.

Jiggs: Easy. Jiggs is near bottom tier with C Falcon.

D3: Neutral. Waddle Dees can be dealt with with sword swipes and boomerang. Both can trade hits well.

Kirby: Disadvantaged. No projectiles and is easily KO'd by one of Link's dairs or smashes.

Lucario: Easy. Link outranges him with both projectiles and a sword.

Lucas: I have to disagree. Lucas is heavily advantaged here with more spammable projectiles.

Luigi: Neutral. It all depends on how good the opponent is at landing a sweetspotted rocket punch. Advantage goes to Link if the opposing Luigi can't land one.

Mario: Advantage to Link. Link's aerials> Mario's. That + projectiles makes Mario not much of a match.

Marth: Link wins.

MK: Neutral.

Ness: Link advantage. Ness's projectiles are crap.

Peach: Peach is garbage after the nerfs. Anybody can wtfpwn Peach now.

Pikachu: Neutral to hard. Thunder and dsmash are so broken.

Olimar: Neutral to hard. A good Olimar can pressure Link enough to break his game.

Pit: Camping Pit's are a bunch of mofos. Disadvantage to link if Link can't approach properly.

ROB: Link beats him.

Samus: Samus can outdo Link on projectile spam and spacing.

Sheik: Link's advantaged. Sheik can't KO at all and lacks projectile game.

Snake: Neutral to hard.

Sonic: Sonic is garbage.

Squirtle: Link advantage. Squirtle doesn't have the range or projectiles to break Link's defensive game.

Toon Link: Can't tell.

Wario: Link wins. Wario has pitiful range to counter Link's defenses.

Wolf: Ouch.

Yoshi: Can't tell. Nobody will play him.

Zelda: She easily overwhelms Link.

Zamus: Link can easily win if he has enough brains to use projectiles and proper setups.

 

[Phoenix Down]

Lucario: Easy. Link outranges him with both projectiles and a sword.

I would have to disagree, Lucario has like ******** priority compared to Link, at least in the air.

The items Link has are is only advantage.

 

[Lucrece]

I would have to disagree, Lucario has like ******** priority compared to Link, at least in the air.

The items Link has are is only advantage.

Oh, really? Hmmm, I had guessed dair and uair had one of the higher priorities in the game, oh well.

 

[Lootic]

Comments like that won't help, Lootic. Reverse psychology isn't

In what way was it reversed psychology? It was my feelings which spoked and nothing else.

Thanks for something to work with.

 

[Phoenix Down]

Oh, really? Hmmm, I had guessed dair and uair had one of the higher priorities in the game, oh well.

His dair does have priority over Lucario but Links uair always seemed to got punished by Lucario.

Not to mention it's hard as hell to recover when you got lucario spamming those shadow balls. But it is Link...

 

[Metro Knight]

The Uair is definitely less useful, than it was in Melee. Since Link is very floaty now, like everyone else in Brawl, I think the uair, is not as good. But, his usmash, utilts, and bombs, give you so much anti-air, you really have to have something like ness's sparkles to really do something against his anti-air. For me, I have the most problems with Characters like Fox/Mario/Ness, or anyone else with a good grab game. And I probably have the most problems with another link, not so much Toon Link, since Link is bigger, but just regular Link. Disabling the jump on the control stick does amazing things for Link. I think Link is a much stronger character once you utilize edgeteching and dodging. Like, I am dodging multiple grabs in a row, etc, so I think Link is really strong considering you can just spot dodge and down smash, not much people can really do about that, especially if you just keep dodging/dsmashing, you will eat their shield up, and punish them, or punish them if they try rolling. Like my Link game is 90% projectile/evasion based, unless I am going against someone like Snake or Marth, some bigger character that I can actually land fairs against. I am so used to going against the small characters, I don't really get a chance to short hop my fairs effectively.

But, I would say that characters who can break the distance with Link and disrupt his defensive game are probably the best against him.

 

[MrPhox]

unless i'm missing something (potential tiers aside)

i think falco has advantage against link.

when you try to space yourself with link, falco can spam his laser, which will just completely ruin your range game.

if you throw things at him he can reflect it. so he can shut down your projectile game if he is good with his shine.
the shine goes forward so bomb range is really dangerous. If you're in range to throw the bomb, he can shine it halfway before it reaches him. Meaning it will come back very quick, and is difficult to avoid.
his side special move will close the gap quickly, better than fox's and wolf's.

so i think falco effectively reduces link's ranged game.

so then when it comes down to just plain old fighting, falco is quicker and has more moves that can combo. i think falco is superior as a fighter.

the only way i see link having a chance is keeping a medium spacing in this matchup. Using a lot of Zair and then sneaking in projectiles when he doesn't expect it.

throwing bombs up to pressure him instead of directly at him too.

you have to be halfway between close combat and ranged combat. you have to move in and out of those styles so you keep him on his toes constantly.

so you really have to alter your play style and basically eliminate some of link's safest strategies.
falco pretty much has to do what he always does, so it shouldn't be as hard for a falco player to adapt.

 

[ImpactAR]

Good topic. I'll put my thoughts in when I have the time. But for now, I got class.

 

[ImpactAR]

If we're talking about advantage, disadvantage, and neutrals try not to factor in any "if...then" statements. Keep it to neutral factors such as assume both equal skill, knowledgable players and a neutral stage.

Link will generally have problems with characters with very good approach and good edgeguarding abilities. Also, typically against speedy characters. Very good approach leaves Link with little room to use projectiles and forces defense. And it's easier to attack then it is to defend. With Link's recovery being one of the worst in the game, now, it's not always about KOing Link. It's about gimping his recovery. Speed just makes it harder on Link.

I play against a few characters. Most noticably for me is the Pit player I play against a ton so in the case of Link vs Pit, Link has the slight disadvantage against Pit. We're pretty much even, but even if I have a better winning I'd still say that.

Link would also have a disadvantage against Shiek and Marth, still. Good approach and edgeguarding here. I'd say he also have a disadvantage against Fox, Falco, and Wolf for similar reasons plus and minus other factors.

Snake is has quick moves that are incredibly strong...his jabs and Ftilt. He's heavy and has good recovery. This match would be even, IMO, since both characters are set up characters.

Characters Link would have an advantage against characters that have a not so fast approach game and generally are big targets. Bowser, DDD, DK, Ike, and ROB would be some examples. Also against very light characters. Only Jigglypuff comes to mind ATM.

I'll probably put my opinion with more character specfic details in the future. I just want to state my opinion on characters I'm pretty sure of as of right now. But even so it's a bit early to be exact about counters and all.

 

[lime_backwards]

I would have to say that Link is at a disadvantage against Mario. Mario is an overall faster character with many higher priority attacks and can just generally combo the crap out of any heavier character (the category in which Link falls). Even though Mario's cape has been changed, it still removes many of Link's attacking options because it still reflects things from whence they came.

A few things that Link has going for him in this match up are his D-air and his Claw Shot. The Claw Shot gives some of Link's distance game back that Mario's cape took away. Also, it is quick and and has two hits. The only real problem is that Mario is relatively short, so he has to be in the air to get hit. As for Link's D-air, it is really all up to the situation. As we all know it is very powerful, yet if you miss, you are pretty much screwed. It does give Link a decent killing option against Mario, but there is always Mario's upsmash that still ruins dreams.

 

[Lootic]

Dont be afraid for your own thoughts or reapeting what others has said people. Every thought is worth to mention.

 

[MrPhox]

i find ganondorf to be difficult to fight.

most of you won't agree, but i fight a ganondorf on a regular basis. My main is link and my friend warriorJ's main is ganondorf.

we are both very well practiced and well read on smashboards, i've been playing since 64. i have confidence that our ability is good enough to make valid judgements or at least points of discussion.

if you know of a strategy or move that i am not capitalizing on, share it, maybe it will change everything.

SO...:

ganondorf must always stand just outside the range of link's clawshot
in that position he can dash attack, down special or side special.

they say shielding is not a good idea with link, he's a slow jumper and doesn't have a very fast attack out of his shield. His shield is not that strong either. ganondorf puts some strain on it real quick. They suggest dodging more often. This leads to you learning the rhythm of ganondorf's tilts. Then he comes out with a charged and held fsmash right after your dodge. In the speed of battle it is difficult to delay the dodge when you see ganondorf begin animation. differentiating between fsmash and any tilt takes such quick timing i have shown very little luck against it yet.


his grab is a gamble. i find in tight fights more grabs are dodged than landed. Dodging link's grab means a lot of punishment from ganondorf.

ganondorf kills link under 100% many times. Link can't get close range because of no shield and no shieldgrab. it is too risky.

i can try mixing up my close combat combos. A-A Utilt A-Grab etc.

grabbing him during his rush attacks
Zair him a lot
pressure him with bombs
find more Nair options
powershield and delay dodges

are all ideas i'm working on, i still find it difficult.

 

[henrytran]

Lucas: Link seems to have a disadvantage against him. Lucas can easily gimp Link's return and his high psi-priority makes Links approaches difficult. Link has to really play an especially good dodge and projectile game vs. Lucas.

Toon Link: Link is about evenly matched against Toon Link. A defensive Link can really easily throw TL off the stage. TL can juggle Link well, but his projectile game is sort of dodged/hampered by Link's very good fast falling. I'd say their projectile games are even, though they play differently. Slowing the game down is Link's priority, while speeding the match up is TL's priority. Fun matchup.

 

[henrytran]

From recent experience lately:

Marth: Link can no longer combo Marth like he used to in Melee. Through Link's improved speed, slight increased power with some attacks, and still spammable projectiles make it very tough for Marth. I'm tempted to say advantage after playing a couple of good Marths, but it might be a neutral ruling for now.

Samus: Her Nair and D-smash and charged beam are not as big as threats as before. Seems like her spike is slightly easier to connect though, but Link has the advantage on this one.

Kirby: Kirby's very fast and strong. Link needs great projectiles to stay in the game. Kirby seems like he is affected by the gale a lot more, which throws off his rhythm. Neutral

Jiggs: Jiggs got gimped badly and just can't juggle Link like he used to. His rolly attack seems stronger, but still easily avoided mostly. Link kills Jiggs really easily with his stronger smashes and his projectile pressuring still makes it hard. Link advantage.

 

[MrPhox]

EDIT IN BOLD

Link has advantage: Captain Falcon, Bowser, Ike, Rob, DK, Marth, King DDD,

disadvantage: pikachu (residual lightening travels through his sword! Tether is obsolete in this battle, high end pikachus will DESTROY link),
lucas, mario, fox, wolf

Neutral: Snake

 

[Browny]

**** link is seriously underestimated...

i normally go pretty even with my brother, but after watching Devs videos, I consistently managed to 2 stock my brother (out of 3) versus his G&W and Olimar. Killing those lightweights at 80% with the double fsmash is just too easy lol. Also, link being immune to G&W dthrow - dsmash combo also helps a lot...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Does anyone else agree with me that Link actually comes out on top in this macth up?

I mean lets look at things from a fair perspective here:

Toon link is wideley considered a much better character than link because he does not have his adult counterpart's glaring weaknesses in the air or off the edge. TL also fairs well agains most other characters because he has a very good projectile game and has powerful disjointed hitboxes which tack on some extra range.

Link, on the other hand, has more range on these hotboxes and his projectile game is filled with more powerful, faster and/or longer ranged projectiles than his cel shaded counterpart. He also boasts more strength and a sturdier build, but has AWFUL jumping ability and a poor recovery which makes him easily beat by a lot of other charcters.

so, on the whole, Toon Link > Link

HOWEVER, I still think that adult link counters toon link in a head to head match up. Here's why.

Toon link has a few options against most oponents, he can make use of his disjointed sword hitboxes, or he can rely on his projectiles, either way, he can keep a lot of his foes at bay, even if the counter one of his styles of gameplay by being better at it than he is. (i.e. marth has a better disjointed hitbox, but no projectiles. Samus has projectiles, but no disjointed hitbox) that's a pretty basic example but you get the point.

The problem with toon link in his matchup against link, however, is that link can do both better than toon link, his projectiles normally can beat out toon link's projectiles, and his sword can hit harder... AND from farther away. This means that toon link's normal 2 methods of attack won't work near as well. Toon link still has speed and aerial ability on link, and link is still rubbish of the edge of the stage, but, honestly, I don't think that can compensate for the fact that link is the dominant force ont he ground. Even if toon link goes airborne, bombs can scare him down and make his dair a poor decision.



unfortuanately, I'm a little betetr than the toon links I play against so my great record of link vs. toon link doesn't mean as much as it could. Also, I don't know anyone else around me who plays link, so I have no point of comparison... so I turn to you guys... what do you think?
__________________

 

[henrytran]

According to the current match-up (5/6/2008) chart the below are Link's bad or unknown matchups (which is very flawed and not really updated reflecting the Threads' opinions (i.e. look at Pokemon trainer thread and compare with match up chart). I think instead of discussing the easy matchups, lets figure out why these are "bad matchups" and figure out what is good or bad against them, and then really determine if the ratings are really true at all. I will be writing bits into, so bear with me until I get the thoughts down. I'm leaving this post as a place marker and for the list to be out for others to think about too.

falco
fox
game and watch
ivysaur
jiggs
kirbs
marth
metaknight
olimar
pit
ROB
Sheik
Snake
Sonic
Squirtle
Toon Link
Wario
Wolf
Zelda
ZSS

 

[Wyvern]

I guess I can throw in my opinion of the matchups on that list that I'm somewhat familiar with.

Falco - I have trouble with Falco in general, but I feel like it's particularly bad for Link due to the blaster and reflector. They totally shut down Link's projectile game (bad), force Link to approach (also bad), and effectively limit you to aerial approaches only (super double EXTRA bad). I've never really found a satisfactory way around it. I say disadvantage.

fox
game and watch

Ivysaur - Ivysaur and Link are both included in my list of mains, but I don't think I've ever actually seen them fight each other. I'm trying to visualize it, and I think that Razor Leaf is quick enough to make boomerang or bomb spam impractical. The bow might tie with it in terms of speed, but Razor Leaf is definitely better than the bow alone in terms of general usefulness. Plus, I'm pretty sure that Ivysaur's range is at least as good or better than Link's depending on the attack and positioning. My gut says that it's probably disadvantageous for Link, but I'm not totally sure.

jiggs
kirbs

Marth - I'm not sure if I should call this advantageous or neutral...on the one hand, I don't think Marth would feel more threatened by Link than he would be of your average high tier fighter, which sort of suggests neutral. But on the other hand, that means that Link is about equal to Marth in spite of being much lower on the tier list...he has a lot of particular advantages that come up in this particular match compared to Link versus some other similarly-ranked character (cancelling out Marth's usual range advantage, unopposed projectiles, etc.). It's kind of like it's advantageous from the Link perspective but neutral from the Marth perspective. I dunno. I guess I'd say advantage if I had to pick.

metaknight
olimar

Pit - The arrows stop Link from using projectiles other than maybe bombs, which is bad, but approaching through the arrows unscathed is not difficult, and once close combat starts, Link has significant advantages in both range and power. I'd say neutral at worst, and POSSIBLY advantageous, but probably not.

ROB

Sheik - I have a friend who mains Sheik, and our battles are pretty evenly matched. If you were watching, it would look like Sheik is winning most of the time due to her ability to build up a lot of damage, pseudo-combo, and be generally hard to punish, but Link kills so much earlier than Sheik that it kind of balances out in the end. It feels neutral in my experience, but I would expect that for much higher-skilled Links and Sheiks than us, Sheik would have the advantage.

Snake
Sonic
Squirtle
Toon Link
Wario
Wolf
Zelda
ZSS

I'll also say that Link has an obvious advantage against Ike. You have most of the same advantages you do against Marth, but Ike has no annoying forward-aerial approach, takes much more damage to projectiles trying to close the distance, and tons of lag time during which you can punish the crap out of him (and since you're controlling him with the projectiles, taking advantage of them is pretty easy). The only particularly dangerous thing Ike has is the jab. I hate that jab so much.

 

[henrytran]

falco
fox
game and watch

Ivysaur - Ivysaur feels like any other slow character, except for his leaf projectile. I think if Link is good at negating that projectile, his air game => Ivysaur's air game, and Link's ground game is a lot quicker than Ivy's. I'd say it's neutral mostly, except that Ivysaur can be gimped by Link pretty easily. Advantage.


Jiggs: Jiggs got gimped badly and just can't juggle Link like he used to. His rolly attack seems stronger, but still easily avoided mostly. Link kills Jiggs really easily with his stronger smashes and his projectile pressuring still makes it hard. Link advantage.


Kirby: Kirby's very fast and strong. Link needs great projectiles to stay in the game. Kirby seems like he is affected by the gale a lot more, which throws off his rhythm. Neutral




Marth - Link can no longer combo Marth like he used to in Melee. Through Link's improved speed, slight increased power with some attacks, and still spammable projectiles make it very tough for Marth. I'm tempted to say advantage after playing a couple of good Marths, but it might be a neutral ruling for now.


metaknight
olimar


Pit - A really good Pit can really screw with Link's approach and projectile game. I main both Link and Pit. I haven't had a chance to play a good Link with my Pit, but plenty of Pit's with my Link. I think as opposed to most matchups, Link's Zair game is especially important versus Pit. I think the best counter to Pit as Link is to learn how to play Pit, lol. Both of Pit's reflectors are fantastic, and Link really has to be unpredictable with his projectiles to avoid getting pushed back by the gale, or have his own arrow hit his face. That said, Pit easily explodes off the screen if Link touches him. Pit doesn't really have a good grab-game versus Link. Link can really punish any Wall of Pain attempts with his shield-grab vs. Pit. All in all, a neutral matchup.


ROB - After beating out a few different ROBs, I'm not sure what's so special about him against Link. His only redeeming quality is that ROB survives a very long time. But even after trying to play as ROB for a number of battles, I can't figure out a good way to throw Link off his game. ROBs projectiles are pretty predictable, and a Link learning how to intercept the Gyro is pretty much asking for a Zair->Gyro throw->QDA combo. Unless someone introduces a fantastic ROB or explains how ROB can **** Link: advantage.


Sheik
Snake
Sonic

Squirtle - Squirtle's quick speed and small size makes it hard for Link to connect. While Link can knock out Squirtle at low percents, Squirtle seems to be able to juggle Link, and simply just duck from the Zair and some projectiles. I haven't figured out a good way to really keep Squirtle on lockdown at all, and his upsmash is deceptive no matter how much you prepare for it. Disadvantage

Toon Link - Link is about evenly matched against Toon Link. A defensive Link can really easily throw TL off the stage. TL can juggle Link well, but his projectile game is sort of dodged/hampered by Link's very good fast falling. I'd say their projectile games are even, though they play differently. Slowing the game down is Link's priority, while speeding the match up is TL's priority. Fun matchup. Neutral.


Wario
Wolf
Zelda
ZSS

 

[BacklashMarth]

Lol. Marth vs. Link = Link win? Its actually not that easy. Its true that since marth lacks a projectile that the fight isn't exactly in his favor but come on. (i'm not saying this just cuz i main marth, i use link too) Good marths are past the stage where projectiles are even a factor anymore in the battle since they can duck, counter, shairdodge, or cut anything you throw at them. I've fought some good links and while they aren't easy to kill, marth can handle himself. If he camps in your face and scores enough tippers, the match will be over quick. I'm not trying to belittle any opi.nions here, just dispelling the "projectiles pwn marth" myth

 

[Grimjack]

G&W: Neutral, if a bit on the hard side. God****ed bucket.

G&W's bucket do not absorb any of Links projectiles.

Mario: Advantage to Link. Link's aerials> Mario's. That + projectiles makes Mario not much of a match.

Mario's cape is more than enough to deal with Links projectiles except maybe bombs which Mario can see coming a mile away.

Marth: Link wins.

George Bush is an alien. See I can make up BS off the top of my head and state it as a fact too.

Ness: Link advantage. Ness's projectiles are crap.

What the hell are you talking about ? Its been argued over and over how Ness's and Lucas's projectiles and abilities match up to each other but Ness's PK Fire and PK Thunder are in no way shape or form crap. I'd love to play you with my Ness so I could juggle your *** around with a Tailwhipped PK thunder.

ROB: Link beats him.

See my response to Marth v Link

Sonic: Sonic is garbage.

People can say the same about Link can they not ?

 

[SummonerMai]

Marth: Link wins.

A good Marth will be able to move around Link's projectile game. This matchup is not as easy as it seems.

Ness: Link advantage. Ness's projectiles are crap..

What the heck, Ness's projectiles are far from crap. When used right PK fire and Thunder are great projectiles. Even PK Flash has some uses.

Sonic: Sonic is garbage..

.........Sonic may not be the best character in the game, but he is far from garbage.

 

[Crooked Crow]

To clear things up.

Ivysaur vs Link.. I don't know how you're saying that Link has the advantage. His spam is probably better than yours and Link's aerial game is NOT better. Ivysaur's aerial game is a BEAST. His u-smash and d-smash are deadly, and his f-air and b-air have great range and like no lag. Link MIGHT have the better ground game, but Ivysaurs grab can pretty much take you out of it. Link is at a disadvantage against an Ivysaur who knows what he's doing.

Marth vs Link... You guys are giving Link too much credit. He CAN win against Marth, but it definitely isn't easy. It's neutral on big stages where Link can spam. Otherwise, it's just not fair x_x Luckily, almost all the stages in Brawl are pretty big.

Mario vs Link... Links aerial game is NOT better than Mario's. Mario can attack you and chain all of his aerials across the stage and he can edgeguard you. Mario can't outspam Link, but he does have his ways around it. I think Mario might have a hard time killing Link, except for the edgeguards, so I don't know how to make of this match up. Maybe Neutral.

Toon Link vs Link... WOW... I can't believe you guys for even considering Link is even with T.Link, let alone have the advantage. T.Link is better than Link in almost every single way in this game. His recovery is better, his edgeguard is better (and definitely ***** Link), his aerial game is better, he gets kills easier, and has a much better spam game. Link is at a really big disadvantage at this one. Maybe a 3:7 in Toon Link's favour.

 

[12ain]

From my view, I think Link is low on the tier list. He is not the character to just pick up and easily adapt and play with like Marth, Sheik, Fox. Link is not Superman but much like Batman, a strategist and setup character and with strategy, I think Link's opponents will have a hard time battling Link if he had a thoroughly thought out game plan. I'd like to address that Link is balanced in many aspects such as being fairly heavy due to the burden of his equipments making him hard to ko, his strength is slightly above average, decent knock back and launch power, great projectiles to interrupt opponent's approach who specialize in close quarters (don't underestimate his projectiles they rack up decent damage in a short period of time if correctly spammed), and regarding his defense game I think he is quite maneuverable when it comes to dodging and rolling and to top it off, his Hylian shield can block certain projectiles if
Link stands still like the lasers of Fox, Falco, Wolf, fully charged Aura Ball of Lucario (I think it works for Samus' charged shot too but never tested it but I am positive it works). Now to exploit Link's weaknesses. Link's downfall is that his attack and running speed lacks in comparison to many fighters and his jump recovery isn't very good. His grab is ranged but where there is a positive there is a negative. If his grab misses, it leaves Link very opened so Link has to time his grabs well. Link is not much of a character that improvises, a well played Link should look at the situation then take action. Link's advantage comes from strategy, and by strategizing the chances of winning just sky rocketed. You should never be aggressive with Link by engaging in close quarters and mashing smash attacks because his stronger attacks come out rather slow and its quite predictable. What opponents will have a hard time predicting is the spacing between you and them. Use projectiles to defend opponents from approaching and when they come near, create spacing by doing the aaa combo, very quick and 12 damage if all three hits connect. His u tilt is nice for juggling and has great reach or range when enemies try to attack you from above. When you manage to knock your opponent away from the battlefield, camp like there's no tomorrow. Spam projectiles everything you got as they try to recover, a great way to annoy opponents and rack up damage. I have much to say but to conclude, Link is great against pure melee characters but against anti-range characters it's really tough. I hope to learn from Link users on how to deal with situations like this but I'd like to say from what I have discussed, it was all based from my experience. Link is definitely a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Swordplay]

Link vs marth...

I really am pushing for neutral on the chart cause right now it gives advantage marth.
I can see how marth can approach and get through links spam which is doable even if he takes a few hits.

I just have trouble seeing how marth will be able to get close to link if link uses zair alot and doesn't let marth SH fair approach which is his best approach in my opinion.

I just feel like good technical links will spam zair alot on this matchup and i would push for neutral. What do you think. I would really like to hear from Shade Deva and Legan and Izaw as I think there some of the best link players on this forum

 

[Sweetical]

here is all that I really have experience with.

Link vs. Meta Knight- disadvantage to Link

Meta knight can spot dodge like there's no tommorow, and it can be difficult to hit him due to the lack of lag for his spot dodge, and how easily he can mix up the timing of his spot dodge. usually a good MK will spot dodge twice to get by your projectiles and get to you fairly quickly. spin attacks can disrupt meta knight if they come right out of your shield, but MK has a fast grab that's hard to see coming. (spot dodge spin attack/dsmash works too if you want to anticipate a grab)

Link vs. Falco- Disadvantage to Link
falco has a chain grab and he can get to you quickly. his reflecter is usually easy to get by (jump forward then double jump backwards, as soon as you double jump backwards throw the bomb, then as your coming down start charging up and arrow and either go for an arrow then quick draw or a charged quick draw) but i usually dont worry about his reflector too often. the lasers are anoying as heck but just stand still and let your sheild take care of it, or duck and let your sheild take care of it. just be ready for a quick approach once the falco gets bored of shooting at you.

Link vs. D3- I would put that as close to neutral but slight advantage to D3, even though D3 has a hard time getting to Link due to his lack of good mobility, all it takes for him to start racking up damage is one ftilt, then he will normally able to get to you unless you're prepared for such a situation. and unless you're playing a laggy online match, you probably wont be able to get out of the chain grab.


this may sound anti linkish but there it is haha, the characters I have some kind of trouble with

 

[lonewolfe]

As for Link vs. Ivysaur, I've only played one PT main, but I found that even though Ivy's leaf projectile can out spam Link's boomerang, etc. Link's zair cancels Ivy's leaves, and it can still attack Ivy. But Link is still at a disadvantage imo, because a lot of Ivy's vine attacks out space Link's sword, and they're much faster...

 

[Swordplay]

lol in the matchup chart even though i practically main link I pushed for a double disadvantage for link on metaknight and falco instead of the single that they had so it really doesn't sound anti-link to me

 

[Onomanic]

well gee this is pretty handy :3

 

[Onxy]

Wow, not to be a troll or anything, but thank God I don't main Link! This list hasn't been updated in near 2 months, and I thought the PT board had it bad

 

[Lootic]

Wow, not to be a troll or anything, but thank God I don't main Link! This list hasn't been updated in near 2 months, and I thought the PT board had it bad

sorry for that, but I thought this thread had died, besides i have a lot of other(more fun) things to do during summer, so it will probably stay unupdated until I have less fun things to do.

 

[Onomanic]

Yup, dead thread indeed.