Link Match-up Thread

[Fortress]

I've never had trouble with Pit. Falco for sure, perhaps also Metaknight or Diddy.

I could really use some advice in that matchup (Pit). How do you handle it?

 

[JesteRace]

Well, in my experience, he gets outcamped pretty easily. If he tries to just shoot arrows straight on, Hylian shield forces him to approach. A smart Pit will angle the arrows to come down on your head, but that's not easy and in the meantime you've got all your wonderful things to throw. At long range, I don't like to have bombs out because I'm using the Hylian shield, but if they are consistently getting around that, or at mid-range, then bombs are good again. Much like the Falco matchup, you can shield his projectile and then throw the bomb OOS before he can get another move out. Also at mid-range, the zair outranges his swords and snuffs a few approaches. If you play safe, he shouldn't get a grab on you too often, cause yeah, once he does, he gets a ton of free damage and possibly even death. The one approach I try to just have covered most of the time is the glide approach. Whether you're constantly throwing zairs out or throwing 'rangs at the air or one of my personal favorites, AGT'ing a bomb but doing the air dodge backwards. I think people really underestimate this option. It's sort of the air equivalent of wavedashing backwards just out of range of an attack and the bomb is what punishes. That's just me, though. I feel like we win the neutral game pretty handily and we combo him pretty well too once the opportunity arises. Once he does get in, as is our universal weakness, it's really hard to shake him off before taking a ton of damage. He has the wonderful ability to extend his combos both horizontally and vertically. Obviously, try to mix up your DI when he's doing Vertical combos, but don't be afraid to DI in sometimes if he's doing horizontal combos. I could be wrong about this, but it seems that he can most likely get to you even if you DI away during these combos, but if you DI in, you start limiting his options and at least, he might have to resort to the Vertical combos which I find to be easier to get out of. Hope some of this helps.




and if you're feeling frisky, dair trades with his upb

 

[Heero Yuy]

Worst of Link's matchups I would say are Falco, MK, and Mario. I also think that Sheik decimates Link at high/top level play, almost as bad as Falco.

I think ROB might be bad for us too but nobody uses him enough for me to make the call.

 

[JesteRace]

Atm, I'm not sure about the Sheik matchup. There is a Sheik player here in my scene who wrecks me, but he's also a much better player than I. I don't think Mario wrecks us, once you start nairing those fireballs away, it gets a lot more manageable. I haven't played enough good ROB players, but he feels super free. But, yeah, if you want a safe and consistent CP to Link, Metaknight and Falco would be my picks.

 

[Heero Yuy]

The reason why I make differences for Link v Sheik in mid vs top level play is that at lower levels, Sheik will have a tougher time handling Link's projectile pressure and spacing. However, once the Sheik learns how to powershield and apply her own camping game (as the needles are better than both the rang and bombs) in addition to making use of her superior speed and combo game, Link can practically be shut down more easily. Even at close range Link will struggle a lot vs her jab combos, and the edgeguards become more free.

ROB on the other hand I've faced one before and I lost...barely. ROB has way better control of the horizontal spacing than we do and his edgeguards are pretty free on Link as well. On the other hand, ROB is kinda fat so he serves as easy projectile and combo food. I'm sticking to 50-50 for now but it could go either way.

 

[Player -0]

#Itcouldgoeitherway #Ken

 

[Heero Yuy]

I dunno man...

 

[InfinityCollision]

I still think Link v Sheik is in Sheik's favor. She's fast, has a very easy time getting around Link's projectiles, has a solid projectile of her own, and once she's in it's basically like fighting a slower, heavier, more comboable Marth from her perspective.

 

[Heero Yuy]

The Earthbound boys aren't as easy as I think. The rang gives you lots of good followups but simultaneously, Lucas has the speed and pressure while Ness has PK Fire. Both characters combo Link hard, especially Lucas whom has so many free autocombos on Link. Lucas also has a pretty good camping game plus a good projectile so his neutral game also has its own gimmicks.

I now stand that Lucas-Link is even.

Ness however, might slightly still be in Link's favor. PK Fire is such an amazing projectile and Ness' kill setups are outstanding.

 

[Third]

Does anyone know how to deal with Kirby? It seems like a bad match-up for Link, because Kirby can duck under the projectiles and get in relatively easily on Link and stay on him. Gimps recovery like Jigglypuff, and the dash attack is also pretty hard to deal with if Kirby's mid-range, which is where Link should excel in, but again, Kirby doesn't care for Link's projectiles mostly. Any tips for this match-up?

 

[Heero Yuy]

I do think Kirby beats Link but it could be in our favor as well potentially. You basically summarized how the matchup goes, but as far as I know play the most patient game you possibly can to win.

Yoshi-Link favors Yoshi. Salt time: Just about every move in Yoshi's moveset clanks out the rang, mostly the Nair, Bair, and egg roll. Utilt combos on Link are also pretty free and Yoshi can just do a lot to keep him up in the air. Rely mainly on bombs in this matchup. It feels like fighting Ganon but a lot harder since Yoshi can get in better.

 

[Jesseyo]

Outdated as of 3.5 release. Will probably do a new analysis in a month or so.

I'm here to drop some information.

About me:
I'm a (really) old school vet from MD/VA. I regularly played with the likes of G-Reg, Mega, Chudat, Azen, Chillin, Boss, Junebug, JCaeser, EastCoastEddie, and the legendary SS4Ricky (I just attended his wedding too!) I went in to hiding around 2006-7 to attend college while playing all these guys on the low down. I attended my first PM tournament last year, and have hosted big events (a couple Xanadu's before it had Tant, two different local weeklies, and the TO of Bar Wars 1 and 2).

I mained Link and Falco in Melee. For PM it's Link and heavily switch characters to confuse my opponents. Switches include ZSS, G&W, Fox, Falco, Falcon, Marth, Mario, Sheik, Gannon, and even double random in teams. My inspiration for the switches is very simple: I want to play more characters throughout the tournament than there are entrants to the tournament

Here's a video of me playing (pre-Johns; I was TOing this event, and had one game of pools to warm up. Darkflame was considered top 10 in MD/VA at the time). I am a very aggressive and fundamental heavy player with lots of technical flubs. I hate the campy Link play, and only pull back when I'm baiting my opponent. I also talk to my opponents during the match. Often times I'll get in their head just by making jokes or complementing on their combos. You can see me do this in every recorded match on VGBC. (Fun fact: at Pound 5.5, on a whim, I played with PMBR SOJ in teams against Mango and Cactuar. They won, but afterwards they openly said they were worried about playing my Link.)



With that out of the way, here's a couple of things to do against some of the hardest match-ups for Link.

Diddy:
I hate this character and this matchup. It's worse than Sheik, Fox, and Falco in Melee. He's very auto-pilot, with a near-invincible recovery. I believe this is the worst matchup in the game for Link. Most of this matchup will be recovery dependent. I play Junebug and Boss every week at locals (non-Xanadu) in WF/LF/GFs usually. Alternately, I'll switch to G&W, Fox, Falco, or ZSS for this matchup.

What Diddy can do to Link:
-Bananas; OOS glide-toss from mid-long range in to nearly anything. Bananas force you in to shield or in the air, which we all know Link's only answer is boomerang (too slow) or neutral air (predictable, crouch canceled, low knockback at low-mid percents). What you should do: (Grounded) catch the Banana by wavedashing in to it and throw it back/up/forward to get it out of your hands and stop an impending approach. You can also swipe the Bananas with jab, and that will often have your opponent run in to the jab too if they're approaching. (Air) Take the hit, catch with Z, or neutral air it away. I'm a big fan of just taking the hit because you can SDI it downwards to avoid an approach. Catching and AGT is heavily spacing/position based. I only favor this if I'm in a dire situation and know I can catch it.

-Side-B; DI the grab behind Diddy, and the kick is to be DI'd away. The grab (if not DI'd correctly) can easily set you up for a forward air, which kills or sets up for kills. The side-B is pretty predictable too. Each Diddy is different, but they always have a tell. Often times, it's a fade back off stage or full hop.

-Dash attack to any air off stage; If you're pushed off stage with this, DI- down and away from Diddy to avoid the spike/forward air gimps. You'll have to end up recovering to ledge, but that's a better option that a guaranteed kill. If you're high enough, you can double jump/bomb pull to bomb jump or wiggle to pull bomb so you save the second jump.


Lucas:
A matchup I feel is heavily depended on camping. I hate camping and I hate it when people compare me to campy players, so I always try to show Link is very good in smart aggression. Lucas has many free hits on a large portion of the cast, and isn't such a glass cannon that people make him out to be. My best defense (as an aggressive player) is neutral air walls and poking with back air. Make sure you cross up on shield if trying to poke, since you'd rather get hit by neutral air than a grab or magnet. I play Flex and MATH regularly, while playing Pink Fresh and Hyperflame on the side.

What Lucas can do to Link:
-Side-B in to anything; Lucas players love to use PK Freeze as a way to get in on Link. PKF clashes with boomerangs, hits through Hylian shield (at least 90% of the time for me), and has enough hit stun on shield for a grab or any followup. What you should do: Avoid it like the plague. Link is such a good weight for this move to just allow yourself to get hit by it. Do anything and everything you can to get around the move. Roll isn't a very good option, and neither is spot-dodge. I recommend getting out of it's range or jumping over it. The speed of the projectile is too fast to react to when you're close, so anything you can do to avoid being hit by it is 100% optimal versus tanking it, but I usually jump over it.

-Down air (grounded): Often times, Lucas will use down air as a form of pressure while you're grounded instead of a spike. Granted, if you get hit in the air instead. you might as well just spam up B or die, because there's not much you can do about it. More often than not, you're going to see them trying to read a tech or use it as a mid-high percent poke to follow up with a kill or combo extension. What you should do: Smash DI the second, or third hit up so the final hit sends you in to the stage instead of in the air. This isn't THAT hard to do since it takes a while to react to being hit, but still takes a bit of getting used to. I still mess it up, mostly because his pressure is so consistent that you can only really guess when they're going to down air. Just be ready to react. This is the most beneficial of all tactics because you'll then be put in to a tech-chase situation instead of a free up-smash (which kills really early). You can tech it if you're prepared, but I favor getup attack since most players will be running around everywhere and not expect you to try to sit still.

-General pressure: The best advice I can give anyone against Lucas, is have a bomb ready to intercept them, and learn how do DI properly. You really do need to know when to apply combo DI, and survival DI against him. He is able to follow anything with anything that kills, and (again) Link's weight makes him a real play toy. Smart fundamentals will only get you so far, and this matchup is proof that the nitty-gritty details make or break the outcome. Crouch canceling is very difficult in this matchup since grab and magnet are so strong.

Mario
(coming soon)

Pit
(coming soon)

Fox/Falco
(coming soon)

Ness
(coming soon)

Captain Falcon (even matchup)
(coming soon)

All other matchups, are fairly straight forward and potentially favorable as Link. I will update this one a day or so until complete. No longer updating as of 3.5s release.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Jesse I would add MK and Sheik to your list. Also I believe the matchups with the Earthbound boys are around even. I'll await your explanations first tho.

 

[Jesseyo]

Jesse I would add MK and Sheik to your list. Also I believe the matchups with the Earthbound boys are around even. I'll await your explanations first tho.

I've taken games of K9 when he was in the area, as well as beaten Plank/Squeak. I don't think it's a bad matchup at all.

Ness more so than Lucas, but they both have the advantage and usually end up in a character switch for me, (G&W, Fox, or Falco). I'll probably go over the Ness matchup next.

I played against a lot of sheik in Melee, and she was tough then. With Link's new buffs, you just have to keep it old school and play smart to win. It's really not that hard

 

[Jesseyo]

Updated with Lucas thoughts. Most likely Mario next

 

[Jesseyo]

With 3.5's announcement, I'll be waiting to update these.

From what I've heard, Link will be a lot more projectile and camp based, preventing aggressive Link players to really play how he did in melee (with success). So...yep

 

[Heero Yuy]

That's disheartening... I vastly prefer the aggressive Link approach.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

... Link could be successfully aggressive in Melee?

... Eh?

 

[Hylian]

With 3.5's announcement, I'll be waiting to update these.

From what I've heard, Link will be a lot more projectile and camp based, preventing aggressive Link players to really play how he did in melee (with success). So...yep

You've heard wrong.

 

[Jesseyo]

You've heard wrong.

Hopefully this is true, but after playing a dev build a few months ago, I was sorely disappointed. I trust that you've saved us all!

 

[Hylian]

Hopefully this is true, but after playing a dev build a few months ago, I was sorely disappointed. I trust that you've saved us all!

Everything will make sense once you read the changelogs for every character.

 

[Player -0]

Inb4 Jiggz Bair is now Ivy's and Ivy gets Jiggz' old one.

 

[Jesseyo]

Everything will make sense once you read the changelogs for every character.

I trust you, but I'm still waiting on that bomb particle fix that we talked about over at JCz pre-magfest

 

[Heero Yuy]

Sheik demolishes Link once again in 3.5... You don't have as strong a neutral and spacing game as you do in 3.0, so you gotta play way smarter. I really recommend going for lots of jabs and keeping the space on the ground - that's where she's weakest. You also have plenty of good followups following a Dthrow, which is pretty free now that the angle is much lower so free kills off a grab past ~80%.

DI down and away from her Ftilt - makes it harder for her to follow up. Also really mix up your DI after dthrows, since she still has guaranteed followups no matter where you go flying (dash attack, fAir, etc.) Needles aren't too hard to deal with, however. Throw something in her face and force her into her shield or a roll, then punish accordingly. DO NOT throw things at her. Rather, mindgame with the rang and bombs are much as you can to fool around with her movement because she CAN and WILL maneuver around them. Also avoid getting knocked offstage...her edgeguards are free.

Wouldn't say it's as bad as it was in Melee but it feels like a fair 63-35 in Sheik's favor. Her combos on Link are as good as ever and Link's far-range options have all been nerfed. Outspace her with the sword and get her into the position you want with the items.

 

[Jesseyo]

Sheik demolishes Link once again in 3.5....

After playing hundreds of Sheiks in Melee, I'm so excited to play against her in 3.5 like this. Brings me back!

Besides, it gives me more of a reason to start with a weird character then make them play on FD/PS2/DL and force my will on them. I'll try to play against HAT or Plank sometime this week to get a better idea.

 

[Thor]

Ok I can do fine in basically every MU except against Zelda. Sheik? Lol you can't CG me effortlessly here. Fox? No problem, come at me bro. Falco? Psh, your lasers don't scare me. Ganondorf? I beat you in a zillion other games punk, let's repeat the end of those other games here. Zelda? Crap, better pull out the pocket 'cario...

Can someone PLEASE explain to me this MU and what I should be doing? None of the normal projectiles seem that good because Nayru's Love is a reflector that land-cancels which makes using usual zoning tools difficult and often only usable as baits. Link can try to do stuff on shield but her OoS kicks are fast and OoS Naryu's isn't a bad option for her either... I feel like when I'm playing Zelda it goes better than it should be, but I still struggle a lot against her.

What do we do in this MU, and is it an MU Link wins or not?

(For the record, I tend to play a projectile-heavy Link - I almost constantly keep the boomerang out and usually want a bomb in hand against a lot of different characters - while I sometimes feel the need to be more aggressive (and therefore don't have space to pull bombs if I'm trying to stay in their face), that still often involves using rang to pin them down or setup into other moves, since it's practically zero on shield and sets up to lots of things).

 

[Heero Yuy]

I play with Zhime a lot and he usually kicks my @$$. However, I think this MU is close to even or very tilted to Link - potentially better now that the annoying teledash is gone (which contributed a lot to her approaching against Link in 3.0.)

I try to approach this MU playing Link like Marth...with projectiles. You're really gonna wanna avoid throwing things in her face since she's really good vs projectiles. Really learn how to mindgame with the items to the best of your ability - you can bait out Nayrus and punish accordingly. I mainly like to go for Fairs and Zairs since Zelda can't really do anything vs Link at that range. It's best to keep at that range at almost all times because not even the kicks will be able to reach you if spaced properly. DO NOT do anything too risky on her shield or in front of her - because that's where she excels.

Also note that she CANNOT throw Dins anywhere without getting hit. From afar? Throw something at her and see how far you can take that hit.

If she gets a grab on you, she'll very likely dthrow you in most scenarios. Mixup with up and away and down and away. Whichever works, just make sure you don't get Uaired or kicked.

Also, please please please don't let her use downB......

 

[Thor]

I play with Zhime a lot and he usually kicks my @$$. However, I think this MU is close to even or very tilted to Link - potentially better now that the annoying teledash is gone (which contributed a lot to her approaching against Link in 3.0.)

I try to approach this MU playing Link like Marth...with projectiles. You're really gonna wanna avoid throwing things in her face since she's really good vs projectiles. Really learn how to mindgame with the items to the best of your ability - you can bait out Nayrus and punish accordingly. I mainly like to go for Fairs and Zairs since Zelda can't really do anything vs Link at that range. It's best to keep at that range at almost all times because not even the kicks will be able to reach you if spaced properly. DO NOT do anything too risky on her shield or in front of her - because that's where she excels.

Also note that she CANNOT throw Dins anywhere without getting hit. From afar? Throw something at her and see how far you can take that hit.

If she gets a grab on you, she'll very likely dthrow you in most scenarios. Mixup with up and away and down and away. Whichever works, just make sure you don't get Uaired or kicked.

Also, please please please don't let her use downB......

An aside:

Spoiler: Don't let her use down+B?

I would prefer if she used down+B XD. Sheik is WAY less of a problem for me than Zelda because I get to throw a lot of stuff in her face.

For the record, I have been using Lucario against this player to great effect (beating his Zelda convincingly), so he's picked up Sheik to beat my Lucario apparently... but he tried bringing Sheik out against my Link and I bopped him for a stock before he switched back.

However, I don't want to rely on a secondary that I haven't put much time into for a single character (since literally no one else makes me look at a secondary - not Lucas, not Fox, not Falco, not Wolf, not 3.5 Mewtwo (3.02 was frustrating, but I didn't really have a character that I was interested in to do better against him besides Pit which would've required a lot of practice, and I suspected the MU wasn't THAT bad...), not Roy, not Marth, not (insert suspected high-tier or hard MU) - no one else at all.) [technically I will occasionally pick Lucario against Ganondorf on a super small stage, but that's the only exception I can think of]. While it is effective and I will likely use Lucario (or Marth) against this player if I need to, trying to figure out this MU would be helpful, since then I wouldn't have to use a different character at all...

And you can see my main in Melee - I'm prepared for that MU (at least somewhat) and it's leaps and bounds better than in Melee - people say Link Sheik is horrible in PM but I just don't see it (if someone did some big long write-up about it, analyzing all options, etc., maybe I'd get it, but as of now it feels like it may be even, or else no worse than like 60-40 Sheik). Maybe someone could explain it better to me but I can beat the best PM Sheik in our area which probably colors my opinion of the MU.

So space a lot of fair? I need to get better at using zair... do I just short hop and immediately hit z to zair, or is there some sort of timing to it like in Brawl? I am trying to throw projectiles to not hit her and bait out Naryu's, but it feels tricky to punish (he usually short hops it, I think to go for some sort of land cancel?), as I'm either too far away to do anything or close enough that the rang gets hit - I can throw bombs straight up I suppose, but that's rather telegraphed...

I don't mess up DI on dthrow or bthrow ever (both are too slow and obvious based on percents), but it's good to note anyway.

Are dtilt and jab shenanigan shield pressure any good in this MU? Those are some other things I'm working into my game and I think they would be good in this MU, but I don't know... I am also considering trying full hop double nairs (or full hop nair double jump nair falling nair for 3 nairs in the air) on shield since nair is not terrible on shield and double nair can trip people up... is this a bad idea?

While this was helpful, do others have any more advice for this MU? As I said in the spoilered part, this is literally the only MU that I will often use a backup in.

 

[Player -0]

- Don't try to pressure her shield using conventional means.
- Be Marth and camp right outside her range.
- Throw boomerangs above her so if she tries to jump she gets hit and use sword/Zair for straight on pressure.
- You can throw bombs at her feet if you rreeeallllly want to. Depends how good they are with items.
- Once you get her in the air just keep Up Airing. She doesn't really have options to get down.
- Nayru's doesn't land cancel that quickly in my experience.
- Make sure you're always DI'ing for F-Throw first, then if you're at high percents B-Throw and the low percent mixup which is D-Throw. If you miss the DI for F-Throw lollightningkick.
- Bomb punting might actually be useful if you're close enough to Zair and then the bomb goes too.

Any videos? Pro phone camera action even works.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Wolf clobbers this Zelda player. Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1hy60i2Sk0

 

[NaijaboyIrin]

Is Sonic a good secondary for Link? I'm not totally aware of what their matchups are like but I'm liking the direction that's being taken with Sonic in this release.

Who are your secondaries btw?

 

[Thor]

- Don't try to pressure her shield using conventional means.
- Be Marth and camp right outside her range.
- Throw boomerangs above her so if she tries to jump she gets hit and use sword/Zair for straight on pressure.
- You can throw bombs at her feet if you rreeeallllly want to. Depends how good they are with items.
- Once you get her in the air just keep Up Airing. She doesn't really have options to get down.
- Nayru's doesn't land cancel that quickly in my experience.
- Make sure you're always DI'ing for F-Throw first, then if you're at high percents B-Throw and the low percent mixup which is D-Throw. If you miss the DI for F-Throw lollightningkick.
- Bomb punting might actually be useful if you're close enough to Zair and then the bomb goes too.

Any videos? Pro phone camera action even works.

You're always around when I need help. Thanks. They never catch my stuff (Except by accident if I throw at point-blank and they were just about to do an aerial), just Nayru's. I try to throw rangs above her - good to know I'm doing that right at least.

Is the DI from fthrow different from the DI for bthrow? I just hold up and haven't gotten lightning kicked from any throw (Dthrow is slow enough that I quickly switch my DI if needed, and he never uses uthrow - don't know why because I don't know what that throw does, but I imagine I have to just mixup for it anyway to avoid uair/fair/bair or something...).

I have no footage of me fighting this player, no. I have footage of other games of me if people want to see them for whatever reason (doubt it), but in one I kinda let the whole "high-level player" thing get to me game 1, in one I do ok (vs Fox and Marth), and in another I have no idea how to fight the MU (DK) for most of the match (and he did some new stuff I've never seen). I'm working that out some and I did pull a game off the DK (who ended up winning the tournament), but none of me fighting the Zelda. There's also some really terrible Melee footage of me from an event a while ago (not only can I tell I've improved in general, but I got MU advice after that event and I was feeling ill during the game I was recorded in at that event, so it's not representative of me now).

 

[Heero Yuy]

Is Sonic a good secondary for Link? I'm not totally aware of what their matchups are like but I'm liking the direction that's being taken with Sonic in this release.

Who are your secondaries btw?

Too early in the metagame to say. In 3.0...Sonic handles spacies, Falcon, and ZSS better than Link. On the other hand, Sheik, Mario and MK pose problems for both characters.

My secondary at the moment is Falco. He's an incredible character in 3.5 now that everyone else around him got slightly nerfed, he remained the same. He also has an excellent matchup spread, and does much better than Link vs his hardest matchups - especially Sheik.

 

[Player -0]

You're always around when I need help. Thanks. They never catch my stuff (Except by accident if I throw at point-blank and they were just about to do an aerial), just Nayru's. I try to throw rangs above her - good to know I'm doing that right at least.

Is the DI from fthrow different from the DI for bthrow? I just hold up and haven't gotten lightning kicked from any throw (Dthrow is slow enough that I quickly switch my DI if needed, and he never uses uthrow - don't know why because I don't know what that throw does, but I imagine I have to just mixup for it anyway to avoid uair/fair/bair or something...).

I have no footage of me fighting this player, no. I have footage of other games of me if people want to see them for whatever reason (doubt it), but in one I kinda let the whole "high-level player" thing get to me game 1, in one I do ok (vs Fox and Marth), and in another I have no idea how to fight the MU (DK) for most of the match (and he did some new stuff I've never seen). I'm working that out some and I did pull a game off the DK (who ended up winning the tournament), but none of me fighting the Zelda. There's also some really terrible Melee footage of me from an event a while ago (not only can I tell I've improved in general, but I got MU advice after that event and I was feeling ill during the game I was recorded in at that event, so it's not representative of me now).

F-Throw DI is down and away, most DI tends to be. Up-Throw for Zelda doesn't really lead into anything (besides positional advantage) except on fast fallers iirc, may have changed with the throw release points being overall corrected. B-throw is Up towards the top blastzone when DI'ing in KO range. D-Throw is down and away like F-Throw.

Some advice for playing against people that may seem bad just because they don't do certain things or have a really bad habit. Save the overconfidence until after you've beaten them, some of the jankiest stuff, even if completely obvious, can make you respect it a lot. Sometimes I underestimate some people (of course I'm playing on wifi, not even netplay , for this a lot too, which affects a loott) and it can cost you. Luckily I haven't had this happen at any tournaments. Pretty much just play as minimally as possible if you aren't trying to style or do stuff. If in neutral the person dash attacks at you a lot, don't bother dash dancing a lot, a simple walk forward run back bait will suffice.

 

[Thor]

F-Throw DI is down and away, most DI tends to be. Up-Throw for Zelda doesn't really lead into anything (besides positional advantage) except on fast fallers iirc, may have changed with the throw release points being overall corrected. B-throw is Up towards the top blastzone when DI'ing in KO range. D-Throw is down and away like F-Throw.

Some advice for playing against people that may seem bad just because they don't do certain things or have a really bad habit. Save the overconfidence until after you've beaten them, some of the jankiest stuff, even if completely obvious, can make you respect it a lot. Sometimes I underestimate some people (of course I'm playing on wifi, not even netplay , for this a lot too, which affects a loott) and it can cost you. Luckily I haven't had this happen at any tournaments. Pretty much just play as minimally as possible if you aren't trying to style or do stuff. If in neutral the person dash attacks at you a lot, don't bother dash dancing a lot, a simple walk forward run back bait will suffice.

The second half of this post was kind of out of the blue [unless you saw me fighting the Marth/Fox player, since I get kind of overconfident and I don't 2-stock him when I probably should have], but it's good to keep in mind. Do I DI fthrow that way to avoid lightning kicks (i'll get kicked holding up)? And will down or away suffice or do I need hold some sort of 45 degree angle?

And the Zelda doesn't ever make me overconfident, I try to just play but seeing his name in bracket usually makes me nervous (if I go warmup my Lucario and feel good about it, then I stop worrying since that's easier to do for me). Him not catching items doesn't somehow make me feel better, because he has a reflector anyway (and even people who don't catch the bombs often just look to avoid them by running away).

 

[Player -0]

Down and away (from Zelda) for both F-Throw and D-Throw to avoid followups for the most part. Just holding down and away works fine, not really sure what you mean by 45 degree angle.

I just saw the thing about high level player and thought I'd pass some advice along.

I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with Nayru's, it's not that great of a reflector. Next time you play the Zelda practice chucking bombs directly at her (don't stand right in front of her though) and see what she does in response. If she gets into a habit of always using Nayru's just Fair/Dair/grab.

 

[Pinnacle]

Time to revive a dead thread.

Anyone know how to beat Sheik and Dankey Kang? I went to a couple of locals recently and those two were always my hardest match ups. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Time to revive a dead thread.

Anyone know how to beat Sheik and Dankey Kang? I went to a couple of locals recently and those two were always my hardest match ups. Any help would be appreciated.

Sheik is Link's worst matchup due to punishes and edgeguarding. You gotta keep her away from you at all costs with your projectiles and Zair. Also be weary of her crouching and CC. I would resort to using a lot of bombs here because it will lead to plenty of follow-ups after the hit. Space your sword like any Marth would - I like to poke the space in front of Link with the jab. If you get a grab, dthrow --> UpB is super reliable. Once that happens you can reset the neutral and keep racking up damage with the projectile pressure.

Dankey Kang is much easier and one of Link's better matchups. Like Sheik, you don't wanna get grabbed. Throw things in his face to your hearts desire since he can't do too much about them...not really lol, gotta be weary of where you throw them. Just space everything properly since DK has a harder time with Link's range than most others.

 

[Hylian]

I think fox is his worst match-up really. Sheik at least you can get grabs.

 

[Thor]

I think fox is his worst match-up really. Sheik at least you can get grabs.

Tech chase Fox for grabs is how I get them, then it's a free kill or fair bit of free percent. Vs both Fox and Sheik, doing so is risky, but I think there are many times risk-reward makes it worth a shot, given how free dthrow up+b is at KO percents.

Also, extra DK advice? I do what I can to camp as much as possible, but I still struggle... I'll link videos here once they go up of me struggling [as usual] vs the local DK (he won this event, including winning Grand Finals 6-1, since he lost in winner's side) [this guy double eliminated me so I took 4th <_<, and I know for sure I could've made winner's finals if I had been in the other half of the bracket, since I normally trounce most the other people who were in that half...]. Also the video has me quitting out of the last game since I accidentally somehow stop holding shield and just ate a DK punch, down 3-1 in stocks [and he's good at setting up suicide, and also just generally a better player...]. It wasn't really a good choice, but I was tired, annoyed with bracket, and [for the first time in a very long while] not having fun playing Smash, so I just SD'd, said GGs, and walked off to watch