Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

[DUKEL]

I still think it's weird Sakurai gave so many characters up-bs with great distance and sometimes even a hitbox.

Enter Link's custom up-b that doesn't even get that much vertical height in comparison to other characters and it has no hitbox, no wind boxes, and it doesn't auto-snap the ledge.

Seriously - if it auto-snapped, I'd actually consider using it. But no, we have to have an up-b that's very punishable but has decent horizontal/vertical recovery... that doesn't even let you grab the ledge.

 

[Zane the pure]

I prefer Vanilla Link because Melee boomerang doesn't return half the time. It runs off leaving me without one of my moves for a little too long for my liking. At least the Gale boomerang remembers to come home on time...

Also it should be fairly obvious from the outset, but just in case, let's be absolutely clear:
When it comes to information, whether it regards matchups/frame data/%/technique/so forth, we are very scientific in our approach to figuring things out. As such, plausibles/possibles/maybe ifs do not count as worthwhile contributions. If you have a theory, test it extensively or inform someone who can before raising it for discussion. Throwing darts at a stone wall with no board yeilds no results, just wasted time. We're more than happy to test things, and dig into practical application of new ideas, but that idea has to tread water or it will sink. If you are a beginner and want to contribute, but you have a new idea, consult someone who has experience on how to test it, do that, and report your findings in a clear and concise manner. That is a contribution.

Obviously this is a forum dedicated to an activity of leisure, so it'd be foolish to take too seriously. Nonetheless, misinformation and theorycraft without direction or testing are not admissible as information. We Link mains detest clutter and value the truth.

To those it applies to, please relax. You don't need to come up with the next new tech or strat. Just gradually prove through discussion that you know your stuff, and maybe demonstrate your ability in tournament or replays occasionally and you'll do just fine. You'd lose approval much quicker posting falsehoods than you would gain it by figuring things out.

My first post in the brawl Link boards was a woefully misinformed write-up on the Rob matchup where I stated that Link is at a slight disadvantage running 60:40. To anyone that knows how upsettingly bad that MU is I sounded like a moron who had never played a serious match against a half decent Rob. I was promptly ignored, so I returned to lurking and attended tournaments in my spare time to refine my knowledge, and by the time I returned to activity, I fit in perfectly (well almost, I wasn't much of a troll) and was able to contribute on several occasions.

 

[KenMeister]

I'm all for quick fire arrows, as I don't really use normal bow much to begin with, and Melee rang is nice, as it travels a bit faster and still has the benefits of gale minus the returning windboxes. Beyond that, other than niche uses for meteor bombs, the rest of Links customs seem like absolute trash to me.

 

[sasook]

Personally I find giant bombs very useful.

 

[Rizen]

Spoiler: Favorite taunt tiers

S
teleport
A

Sword twirl and sheath.
spin and vanish
reflector hacky sack
Wave
open arm cannon
deflate
B
pole dance
Throw sword into ground and cross arms
"come"
aura burst
Twirl
C
fountain
flame burst
break dance
eye glint>psychic palm

Personally I find giant bombs very useful.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

 

[link7]

Spoiler: Favorite taunt tiers

S
teleport
A

Sword twirl and sheath.
spin and vanish
reflector hacky sack
Wave
open arm cannon
deflate
B
pole dance
Throw sword into ground and cross arms
"come"
aura burst
Twirl
C
fountain
flame burst
break dance
eye glint>psychic palm

No Kirby "Hiii"? This list is terrible.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

Pfft. Taunt tier *****.

Btw, I have no idea why Greninja's taunts keep getting nerfed.

 

[8MAN]

Spoiler: Favorite taunt tiers

S
teleport
A

Sword twirl and sheath.
spin and vanish
reflector hacky sack
Wave
open arm cannon
deflate
B
pole dance
Throw sword into ground and cross arms
"come"
aura burst
Twirl
C
fountain
flame burst
break dance
eye glint>psychic palm

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

No Falcon's most iconic taunt...
But hey, your opinion I guess.

 

[ama99]

S Tier:
Fairy!
"Hands off my prey!"

 

[KenMeister]

Spoiler: Favorite taunt tiers

S
teleport
A

Sword twirl and sheath.
spin and vanish
reflector hacky sack
Wave
open arm cannon
deflate
B
pole dance
Throw sword into ground and cross arms
"come"
aura burst
Twirl
C
fountain
flame burst
break dance
eye glint>psychic palm

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Nothing for Shulk? How could you....

 

[ShinnyMetal]

Down taunt (the stomp) is my definite fave. So damn satisfying when you kill your friends.

Spin and laugh is another fav
Playing with a stick is so damn troll-y. Nothing says "**** you!" quite like killing someone worth the tree and then playing in the dirt with a stick

 

[Rizen]

@ KenMeister Well I never played the Xenoblade games and have no connection with Shulk. When someone said he was a character I thought they were making a joke with a naughty word.

Pfft. Taunt tier *****.

I don't see you putting any opinions out.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Link's sheathing taunt is the best. Nothing like U-smashing them into the sunset while sheathing your sword in the coolest way possible.

I also like Bowser's dance. Trolly and effective.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

@ KenMeister Well I never played the Xenoblade games and have no connection with Shulk. When someone said he was a character I thought they were making a joke with a naughty word.

I don't see you putting any opinions out.

IoI, I was just playing, bro. But when it comes to taunts, I do think Link has the best ones. My other favorites are Falco, Peach, Mario, and Ike.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Personally I find giant bombs very useful.

They're probably underrated. If you're really clever, you can use them like Snake grenades in a way as you can shield behind one and if your opponent attacks and blows it up, they get hit, which is pretty cool.

Not too bad for edgeguards circumstantially. I distinctly remember blowing up Ike out of his recovery with Giant Bombs as his Up-B detonated it.

I honestly wonder, are Meteor bombs really worth picking over regular Bombs though? You can't use them the same way for recovery given they'll spike you to your death at higher percents. Because they explode sooner than regular bombs, they're harder to use in up toss throw combos than regular Bombs (and they also do less damage). The one other thing they can do is be used to spike people offstage, but Link himself is already a very good character at edgeguarding, so this seems kinda overkill/unnecessary if you ask me.

Personally me I rarely ever hit people directly with Bombs, and they more serve as space control tools. Finally in the few situations where I do manage to hit Bombs, it's usually often when they whiff something while I'm jumping above them, and in that situation I still get a free combo into N-air anyway. I can't think of many situations where Meteor Bombs have allowed me to combo into anything huge easily.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

I just can't see any of the custom bombs being more useful or versatile than regular bombs, they just suck too much.

 

[Dumbfire]

They're probably underrated. If you're really clever, you can use them like Snake grenades in a way as you can shield behind one and if your opponent attacks and blows it up, they get hit, which is pretty cool.

Not too bad for edgeguards circumstantially. I distinctly remember blowing up Ike out of his recovery with Giant Bombs as his Up-B detonated it.

I honestly wonder, are Meteor bombs really worth picking over regular Bombs though? You can't use them the same way for recovery given they'll spike you to your death at higher percents. Because they explode sooner than regular bombs, they're harder to use in up toss throw combos than regular Bombs (and they also do less damage). The one other thing they can do is be used to spike people offstage, but Link himself is already a very good character at edgeguarding, so this seems kinda overkill/unnecessary if you ask me.

Personally me I rarely ever hit people directly with Bombs, and they more serve as space control tools. Finally in the few situations where I do manage to hit Bombs, it's usually often when they whiff something while I'm jumping above them, and in that situation I still get a free combo into N-air anyway. I can't think of many situations where Meteor Bombs have allowed me to combo into anything huge easily.

I agree on the meteor bombs; all I ever hear is theory crafting about gimmicky applications while in reality the negatives far outweigh the few positives.

For those curious, there is no footage of meteor bomb Link in tournament as far as I know but there is this one of giant bombs:

Chuck vs Adram
Chuck 19 April 2015 Tournament *Customs*
[Winner Finals] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VveYxFxnwsk

Also I don't taunt -- maybe people from Brawl remember when someone found an excellent way of mashing out by setting the D-pad to shield, attack and jump: I kept using that at first so I couldn't even taunt initially. Generally I just stand still or get into a comfortable position. (My old, occasional 'taunt' was the reverse fake-out bombslide slide-off which I loved -- alas! for it to be removed )

 

[MintyGuy700]

In other news…

 

[kxiong92]

I agree on the meteor bombs; all I ever hear is theory crafting about gimmicky applications while in reality the negatives far outweigh the few positives.

For those curious, there is no footage of meteor bomb Link in tournament as far as I know but there is this one of giant bombs:

Chuck vs Adram
Chuck 19 April 2015 Tournament *Customs*
[Winner Finals] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VveYxFxnwsk

Also I don't taunt -- maybe people from Brawl remember when someone found an excellent way of mashing out by setting the D-pad to shield, attack and jump: I kept using that at first so I couldn't even taunt initially. Generally I just stand still or get into a comfortable position. (My old, occasional 'taunt' was the reverse fake-out bombslide slide-off which I loved -- alas! for it to be removed )

I'll try to use meteor bomb in my next tourney. I've been labbing with meteor bombs for a couple of days now. Let's if I could do something with it.

 

[MintyGuy700]

I'll try to use meteor bomb in my next tourney. I've been labbing with meteor bombs for a couple of days now. Let's if I could do something with it.

Hey Requiem, going to the UMN summer tournament?

 

[Rizen]

^this is a good example of why veteran Link mains don't like Izaw. Now a bunch of FG scrubs will flood eventhubs rating Link up.
http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/
^This has Link above Diddy for Goddess Farow' sake which is complete BS for competitive smash. Izaw likes to hype MMs with scrubs (I will admit the Sonic player was good but he's the first good player I've ever seen Izaw face) then post a big thread about it and get scrubs to idolize him. He did this with DDD in Brawl:
http://smashboards.com/threads/izaw-matches-new-matches-against-a-pro-dedede.173455/
That DDD Haze (the same "good CF" he posted a different MM about) was terrible and Brawl Link vs DDD was -3 for Link but scrubs with no tourney experience flooded the forums saying Link is good. He also made an entire thread rather than using the video thread. He posted "the art of Sheik by Izaw" as a thread 3 (or more) separate times on Smashboards including on the Link forums:
http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-sheik-guide-art-of-sheik-by-izaw.383240/
Izaw also makes Art of Link videos trying to take credit for ATs that the Link boards come up with through metagame discussion, which he doesn't help with. He has no tournaments to back him up. Other Links did work and attended live tourneys.
Izaw just has tech skill and a huge ego (a pet peeve of mine). He encourages spam on the forums and creates a false impression of Link being "The new Diddy" to scrubs. This is why Link is designed bad and nerfed in patches concerning competitive play.

 

[DUKEL]

There's also the ridiculous general consensus among uneducated plebs that Izaw is the best Link. For instance - there was a reddit thread a while back that asked who the best player for each character was, and one of the top comments placed Izaw as the best.

Just because he makes a highlight reel every 6 months doesn't mean he's the best Link, and you'd think people who care enough to decide who's the best would actually put thought into it. I'm just tired of seeing "Ahhh! Izaw's the best Link!" when he's never even gone to a major. Literally the only reason they think he's the best is because he says he is. Izawmbies indeed.

There are several Links on the boards that are better than him, and have the tournament results to prove it.

The whole "new Diddy" argument reminds me of some of the ignorant things that ZeRo says. They both have popularity and instead of spreading accurate information, they both choose to make tweets/youtube comments/youtube videos that not only have inaccurate information, it's information so inaccurate that it makes you wonder if they know anything about the game.

Edit: Just looked up his Smashboards tourney results. He's only been to one tournament - at which he went all Shiek. I really don't understand why people think he's the best Link.

Also - event hubs is stupid. Sheik 6th? What?

 

[Dumbfire]

"List of Notable Players at Respective Characters":
Link
Izaw, KirinBlaze*, Scizor*

Fair enough!
(The newest version of that thread has no Link incidentally, it goes by tournament results.)

I'll try to use meteor bomb in my next tourney. I've been labbing with meteor bombs for a couple of days now. Let's if I could do something with it.

That'd be nice.

Edit: Just looked up his Smashboards tourney results. He's only been to one tournament - at which he went all Shiek. I really don't understand why people think he's the best Link.

He went Link occasionally, as in this very notable set.

 

[Elessar]

Interestingly enough, the other day we were chatting among vets and @Wafflez (one of the best vets as well as probably the only on who actually liked Izaw) was blown away by people still liking Izaw. He said "Do scrubs still idolize Izaw? Based on what? Brawl hype?".

It was glorious.

 

[Rizen]

Moving right along, the efficiency this speedrunner has is ridiculous:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPkMSrfBAuA
I enjoy watching someone who knows what they're doing. The only Let's Plays I like are for indie games and game mods/hacks that I can't find speedruns of.

 

[Kenith]

Nice thread title. I started played Link's Awakening the other day.

 

[jmanup85]

Who are Link mains I can watch and get a feel for his playstyle? And are there any tutorial vids on his AT's because I read the giant thread but some of them don't make sense and I'd rather see it while reading so I can get a better understanding of the techs, especially bomb stuff.

 

[Dumbfire]

Who are Link mains I can watch and get a feel for his playstyle? And are there any tutorial vids on his AT's because I read the giant thread but some of them don't make sense and I'd rather see it while reading so I can get a better understanding of the techs, especially bomb stuff.

Video archive has an AT section: there are all AT tutorial vids we (I) know of (plus now patched ATs in older spoilers for fun). Most relevant Links to watch for playstyle are Scizor (carried over from Brawl, very much involved with using upward bombsliding for mobility &c., check out this glorious brawl match first); KirinBlaze, who is very-zoning based and has excellent spacing and camping; Staticmanny and Ninjalink, who don't main Link which makes them very intuitive players with Link: very aggressive in Ninjalink's case and down to earth, collected with Staticmanny; Hyrule Hero, who uses bombs very sparingly and utilizes his basics excellently; and Cat, with her cutesy trickery.

 

[jmanup85]

Video archive has an AT section: there are all AT tutorial vids we (I) know of (plus now patched ATs in older spoilers for fun). Most relevant Links to watch for playstyle are Scizor (carried over from Brawl, very much involved with using upward bombsliding for mobility &c., check out this glorious brawl match first); KirinBlaze, who is very-zoning based and has excellent spacing and camping; Staticmanny and Ninjalink, who don't main Link which makes them very intuitive players with Link: very aggressive in Ninjalink's case and down to earth, collected with Staticmanny; Hyrule Hero, who uses bombs very sparingly and utilizes his basics excellently; and perhaps Cat, with his cutesy trickery.

Thank you very much for the response man, appreciate it alot.

 

[kxiong92]

Hey Requiem, going to the UMN summer tournament?

Yeah, I'm going. Are you going too? You know we need more Link representatives.

 

[ShinTwist ScreamPaste]

Hah, it turns out Izaw still has a little Link main in him somewhere, going by that last post.

 

[KenMeister]

Hah, it turns out Izaw still has a little Link main in him somewhere, going by that last post.

And then off he goes, making highlight videos of more d**king on Haze, trying to pass himself off as a "Link main". That Sheik dtilt and bair "nerf" hurt him apparently.

 

[ShinTwist ScreamPaste]

And then off he goes, making highlight videos of more d**king on Haze, trying to pass himself off as a "Link main". That Sheik dtilt and bair "nerf" hurt him apparently.

Oh, I doubt he'll change. I gave him the benefit of a doubt some time ago and he simply left again.

It's a shame, but you do have to admit, that was a choice shut down. It gives an old man like me some nostalgia.

 

[MintyGuy700]

Yeah, I'm going. Are you going too? You know we need more Link representatives.

Yeah I am.

 

[Dumbfire]

Oh the glorious days when he and Mr-R and Legan and Kirin and ArkiveZero were still in Xat

(Actually only two were really regulars.)

 

[HarryTheChin]

Hey guys, what's the verdict on Link's DITCIT and the practicality of it in competitive play? I know for a fact Megaman's is really good since it covers a wide horizontal distance however Link's is shorter almost akin to a DACUS from brawl but instead of an upsmash it is an upthrow item glide toss

 

[DarkDeity15]

I'm starting to wonder if rage can make a difference in how well jab 2 cancels can combo into stuff. It probably does.

 

[Dumbfire]

Hey guys, what's the verdict on Link's DITCIT and the practicality of it in competitive play? I know for a fact Megaman's is really good since it covers a wide horizontal distance however Link's is shorter almost akin to a DACUS from brawl but instead of an upsmash it is an upthrow item glide toss

I love the reverse fake-out, but only me, Cat, FSK and Foxy actually seem to ever do it, and it's mostly me. Here are two posts on it from me:

Right, I have me abusing the reverse fake-out bombslide like crazy, here's some more implementations of it. Look here (8 second mark) for how useful it is to have your back to the opponent for Bair, which is a better pressuring move than Fair and more versatile. Btw, yes it links into Bair easily when hit, and double Bair is very feasible. Then here is the use (1min 52 seconds) for turning around when anticipating, immediately followed by perhaps the best use: tech chasing. Notice how, by standing moderate distance away from him then using the reverse fake-out, I easily cover all get-up options. The bomb hits his get-up attack, roll away or normal get-up almost all the time, then I'm turned around in case he rolls towards me: I do that all the time.

A last use which I should get some footage of, is in my spam game. I tend to soft throw at least one bomb, then throw a second one with the reverse fake-out closer to that one. While turned around, the entire slide you can pick up that other bomb, which you can then easily JCT again towards him (i.e. another soft thrown bomb). Plus if the opponent tries to jump over the soft thrown bomb I am in a better position to hit him with Utilt.

I can't get enough of the reverse fake-out...

I expanded upon the first Tributary of Toon Link Tears (now featuring other board members for your sadistic amusement!). This one shows me (a) applying the bombslide slide-off with edgeguarding, (b) pressuring with up and reverse-fakeout bombslides and (c) using the reverse fake-out merely to slide under someone then turn around. That last one is especially notable, as I seem to be the only active user of the reverse fake-out. If you catch an airdodge you can slide a very long distance under the opponent then turn around and Fsmash / Dsmash as I did in the video. I love that reverse-fakeout, and it's not as silly as it sounds to use it only to turn around. If you hit a bomb up close the knockback will also send the opponent towards you so the reverse-fakeout will actually turn you int the right direction, which is why using the reverse-fakeout near the ledge is often best when the opponent is off-stage. Note too ledge trumping is handy for Link in combination with playing around with bombs in this way near the ledge, especially Zair trumping.

Scizor loves the up-bombslide and uses it a lot for mobility, there's for example a an upward bombslide to Dsmash here. Up-throw fake-out lead to greater follow-ups and sliding under people &c., see this video by Ieven and this game of @Nimious and this game of me.

Here's a video I made advertising bombslides:

In brief, Link's DACIT/Bombslide rules. FSK will make a video f bombslides, and I will be compiling something more definitive too, because it seems there are still questioners for some reason...!

 

[Rizen]

@Izaw please post your tournament results.

 

[Elessar]

@Izaw please post your tournament results.

You forgot to specify that only results with Link count. We don't care about Sheik placings.