Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

[Elessar]

Do you guys ever get the feeling that nothing works right? I'll be brutally honest; I just searched 'Modern technology' and got a "server not found" message.

Edit, I'm so glad Kevin Conroy returned to voice Batman in Arkham Knight.

Kevin Conroy is Batman.

 

[FSK]

Kevin Conroy is Batman.

I'm Batman

 

[Karaoke Man]

Did you by any chance attend Smash n Splash?

Nah, I really wanted to though since a buddy of mine from Atlanta was attending, buuuut no money=broooooke

Did you go? If so, how'd it go?

Since I'm here;

Hi fellow Link players. I hope you guys are doing alright.

 

[link and ike lover]

Nah, I really wanted to though since a buddy of mine from Atlanta was attending, buuuut no money=broooooke

Did you go? If so, how'd it go?

Since I'm here;

Hi fellow Link players. I hope you guys are doing alright.

Been doin great. You?

 

[Dumbfire]

Nah, I really wanted to though since a buddy of mine from Atlanta was attending, buuuut no money=broooooke

Did you go? If so, how'd it go?

Since I'm here;

Hi fellow Link players. I hope you guys are doing alright.

He was there, check out some of his matches:

Requiem vs DLA
13 June 2015 Tournament
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlMmfazcLiA

Requiem vs Wizzrobe
13 June 2015 Tournament
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqF3k_jvB3s

We're enjoying the patch buff.

 

[kxiong92]

Nah, I really wanted to though since a buddy of mine from Atlanta was attending, buuuut no money=broooooke

Did you go? If so, how'd it go?

Since I'm here;

Hi fellow Link players. I hope you guys are doing alright.

Yeah. I did go. It was a lot of fun. Got knocked in the second round of pools.

 

[Huggles828]

Had a tourney with a lotof the top NC and SC players. Choked pretty hard. Ended up 7th of about 30. Need to do work :/

 

[Drigo Toes]

I assisted to another tournament the last saturday. Every game was a counter pick (Luigi, C.Falcon, Sheik x 2) or Villager custom (you know, stale!). I take 4th place... Iori (the guy going to Evo, best player in the Country in my opinion, aside Zero) and my brother (as always) take me out of it.

I feel a little disappointed...

 

[link7]

I assisted to another tournament the last saturday. Every game was a counter pick (Luigi, C.Falcon, Sheik x 2) or Villager custom (you know, stale!). I take 4th place... Iori (the guy going to Evo, best player in the Country in my opinion, aside Zero) and my brother (as always) take me out of it.

I feel a little disappointed...

4th is still pretty dang good dude.

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

I assisted to another tournament the last saturday. Every game was a counter pick (Luigi, C.Falcon, Sheik x 2) or Villager custom (you know, stale!). I take 4th place... Iori (the guy going to Evo, best player in the Country in my opinion, aside Zero) and my brother (as always) take me out of it.

I feel a little disappointed...

If you picked Link, you knew what you were getting into. In fact I think it's not possible to avoid counter picking Link. Any half decent character is a counter pick against Link.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I assisted to another tournament the last saturday. Every game was a counter pick (Luigi, C.Falcon, Sheik x 2) or Villager custom (you know, stale!). I take 4th place... Iori (the guy going to Evo, best player in the Country in my opinion, aside Zero) and my brother (as always) take me out of it.

I feel a little disappointed...

Well if you went 4th then you must have been doing something right. Good job

 

[DUKEL]

It's official. I'm going to FC Return. The big issue is that it's a custom's tournament.

I f***** hate customs.

 

[ShinnyMetal]

It's official. I'm going to FC Return. The big issue is that it's a custom's tournament.

I f***** hate customs.

Why? I like how they flesh out the game and make some
Characters for interesting/viable. Almost all the top tier characters get little to no benifit from them

 

[DUKEL]

Why? I like how they flesh out the game and make some
Characters for interesting/viable. Almost all the top tier characters get little to no benifit from them

It makes a balanced game, suddenly unbalanced.

They make Sheik, Luigi, Captain Falcon, Pikachu, Rosalina, and more top tiers better. There are only a few top tiers who aren't made better by customs so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that top tiers get no benefit from them. There are only a few characters that gain tiers, and most of them make a more boring game. It doesn't flesh out the game, it just makes it more jagged and less smooth.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

Rosalina's customs are amazing. Instant Luma teleportation, super fast side B with longer range, etc. I just wish they put more thought into Link's cutoms. Power Bow? Really? I can think of two better arrow customs, fire arrows that have a set distance traveled and act like Ness' PK Fire, and Ice arrows, that pop up the enemy like Lucas' PK Freeze. Boom, there, easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy, literally no effort at all, minimal knowledge of the Zelda franchise would get the same result.

Spin attack? Make one with more range, like a fully charged one in OoT, or full hearts in TP. Keep knockback and vertical and horizontal movement, but reduce damage.

'Rang? In A Link Between Worlds, you can throw up to like, 3 boomerangs at once (that might be a little overboard, though.)

Bombs? Make lightweight bombs that can be thrown farther. Or, make landmine bombs that act like a soft throw or zair drop, but explode after 5 seconds or when it comes in contact with the enemy.

Not even 15 minutes have gone by and I've thought of at least one custom for each special move that is better than what Link has now. It wasn't hard at all, Sakurai, you little ******.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Rosalina's customs are amazing. Instant Luma teleportation, super fast side B with longer range, etc. I just wish they put more thought into Link's cutoms. Power Bow? Really? I can think of two better arrow customs, fire arrows that have a set distance traveled and act like Ness' PK Fire, and Ice arrows, that pop up the enemy like Lucas' PK Freeze. Boom, there, easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy, literally no effort at all, minimal knowledge of the Zelda franchise would get the same result.

Spin attack? Make one with more range, like a fully charged one in OoT, or full hearts in TP. Keep knockback and vertical and horizontal movement, but reduce damage.

'Rang? In A Link Between Worlds, you can throw up to like, 3 boomerangs at once (that might be a little overboard, though.)

Bombs? Make lightweight bombs that can be thrown farther. Or, make landmine bombs that act like a soft throw or zair drop, but explode after 5 seconds or when it comes in contact with the enemy.

Not even 15 minutes have gone by and I've thought of at least one custom for each special move that is better than what Link has now. It wasn't hard at all, Sakurai, you little ******.

Well he gave us the non-gimmicky-default boomerang. That's all we wanted, anyways. Screw the others. After the power bow got nerfed and finding more utility out of normal bombs than meteor bombs, I've pretty much stopped using customs for Link aside from the 1211 combination. Probably one of the most balanced sets in the game, which is why I'm still pro-customs.

 

[Rizen]

^So you use 1 custom move, that's very close to the standard, consider it balanced for 1 character and therefor are pro-customs?

I use the quick fire arrow and non wind boomerang customs. The others aren't worth using except in special situations (like 8 player smash or illegal stages).

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Well, I heard there are many characters that are broken with customs, but I haven't seen any of those characters with customs in match (aside from DK and a couple villagers). Plus, the custom meta is still VERY young, so give it some more time. If people are still throwing a hissy fit over the broken customs, then fine, ban them.
What still baffles me is why Halbred hasn't been banned yet. That stage is just as dumb as the broken customs people keep talking about.

 

[DUKEL]

Well, I heard there are many characters that are broken with customs, but I haven't seen any of those characters with customs in match (aside from DK and a couple villagers). Plus, the custom meta is still VERY young, so give it some more time. If people are still throwing a hissy fit over the broken customs, then fine, ban them.
What still baffles me is why Halbred hasn't been banned yet. That stage is just as dumb as the broken customs people keep talking about.

And as the custom meta ages, then more broken things will be found, and people of an even lower skill cap can win because of it.

Halberd really isn't that disruptive (plus I love the stage/platform layout), while it's pretty easy to argue that customs are. It at least takes some level of skill to win on Halberd. If you're not careful, you can be destroyed on the stage. Plus no one relies on the stage hazards to win for them, and anyone who does will most likely lose the game.

It doesn't take skill to use, say, custom villager. Just plant the trip tree, and camp with the exploding balloons, occasionally throwing out a gyro or fair. Someone can potentially spend a week in the lab with custom villager, and go further in a tournament than with their other non-customs character they've spent months on. The fact that using these custom moves (some of which have no apparent downside) can potentially take a mediocre player to grand finals at xanadu (see: average joe) shows that the moves are inherently broken. Or if they aren't broken, then they're at least not balanced around competitive gameplay.

I use the quick fire arrow and non wind boomerang customs. The others aren't worth using except in special situations (like 8 player smash or illegal stages).

I really haven't found a use for the quick fire arrow - how do you use it? I'm personally going to be learning his most gimmicky set - 2213 - except for certain matchups where I can't use the Power Bow.

I am curious as to why we have 4 sets with the ripping boomerang and no sets with the big bomb, though. Does anybody even use the ripping boomerang? And is it even useful?

 

[Ryu_Ken]

And as the custom meta ages, then more broken things will be found, and people of an even lower skill cap can win because of it.

Halberd really isn't that disruptive (plus I love the stage/platform layout), while it's pretty easy to argue that customs are. It at least takes some level of skill to win on Halberd. If you're not careful, you can be destroyed on the stage. Plus no one relies on the stage hazards to win for them, and anyone who does will most likely lose the game.

It doesn't take skill to use, say, custom villager. Just plant the trip tree, and camp with the exploding balloons, occasionally throwing out a gyro or fair. Someone can potentially spend a week in the lab with custom villager, and go further in a tournament than with their other non-customs character they've spent months on. The fact that using these custom moves (some of which have no apparent downside) can potentially take a mediocre player to grand finals at xanadu (see: average joe) shows that the moves are inherently broken. Or if they aren't broken, then they're at least not balanced around competitive gameplay.

If Larry didnt pick Halbred yesterday at CEO, he could've had a chance to beat DaBuz. Both the hazards and the low ceiling screwed him over; Rosaluma racked up good damage on Fox one time with the help of the crane, and he ended the match pretty quick with triple uair. The hazards are actually harder to avoid than in Brawl due to game mechanics. Don't give me the "hazards can be avoided just git Gud" argument. If that's the case, then how come Kongo Jungle 64 or Orbital Gate Assault aren't legal?

Like I said, custom meta is still young. Average Joe got beat in the next custom tourney at Xanadu. Not everyone has particularly adjusted to customs yet, so there haven't been a lot of matches. The fact that people are winning with brain-dead tactics goes to show how young the meta is. I am pretty disappointed with how it's progressing, though. There haven't been a lot of results from characters using customs lately and some characters remain unexplored. Therefore, if the custom meta remains still-standing and people are still throwing a hissy fit, then fine, ban them. But PLEASE give it some time: give it a chance.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I don't like Ripping Boomerang. The downsides trump the benefits. Like if you throw it at the guy then yeah, you're gonna get a couple light hits and a tiny interruption in the approach, but you're forced to wait till it goea through its full cycle and comes back to you.

 

[Dumbfire]

I can't believe I'm here reading long discussions about competitive video game rulesets. Time to rethink my life >.>

 

[Drigo Toes]

I really haven't found a use for the quick fire arrow - how do you use it? I'm personally going to be learning his most gimmicky set - 2213 - except for certain matchups where I can't use the Power Bow.

I am curious as to why we have 4 sets with the ripping boomerang and no sets with the big bomb, though. Does anybody even use the ripping boomerang? And is it even useful?

I always get QuickFire Arrow (QFA for short). It is fast and disrupt rush chars to approach by ground. It also goes through Villager Gyro and does damage to Villager. In my city Link is considered counter to custom Villager thanks to QFA. I also use it as a grab set up.

 

[Rizen]

The ripping boomerang and Shocking spin are worthless. The power bow, giant bombs and wind upB could be fun on huge stages/casual rules but have no competitive value. Meteor bombs might be the best choice if they had longer fuses and packed a bit more punch; the cons outweigh the pros and normal bombs beat them. The non gale boomerang is the best but the gale isn't too bad fortunately; it only loses the 3% return attack. Quickfire arrows are the best because they give Link an interrupting/zoning tool that's hard to punish and works with locks. The normal bow is good and beats quickfire arrows in ways but overall quickfire is better.
/my two cents on Link's customs.

 

[DUKEL]

If Larry didnt pick Halbred yesterday at CEO, he could've had a chance to beat DaBuz. Both the hazards and the low ceiling screwed him over; Rosaluma racked up good damage on Fox one time with the help of the crane, and he ended the match pretty quick with triple uair. Don't give me the "hazards can be avoided just git Gud" argument. If that's the case, then how come Kongo Jungle 64 or Orbital Gate Assault aren't legal?

Spoiler: Ugh wordy response

Larry shouldn't have counterpicked Rosalina to Halberd. You should never take Rosalina to Halberd. That was Larry's fault. It came down to Larry thinking he could outperform DaBuz at Halberd, but DaBuz (predictably) outperformed him. Since Halberd is arguably Rosa's best stage, his loss came down to a stupid counter pick. Not the stage hazards.

And Kongo Jungle isn't legal because you can camp on it, using the barrels - not because you can accidentally SD when you hit one.. Orbital Gate assault isn't legal because the hazards are random, and the ships are disruptive. Primarily because the ships are disruptive. Halberd literally obviously warns you before each and every stage hazard, and is kind enough to tell you where it's going. I didn't use the "hazards can be avoided just git gud" argument you think I made for some reason. But something tells me you've had this argument many times before and have been told this every time. So the thing is, most people think that the hazards are avoidable. If they didn't, you'd never see people counter-pick there, or you'd see people abusing the hazards and strategically using them to win the set. The thing is, we don't see that. So the overused argument actually applies.

Like I said, custom meta is still young. Average Joe got beat in the next custom tourney at Xanadu. Not everyone has particularly adjusted to customs yet, so there haven't been a lot of matches. The fact that people are winning with brain-dead tactics goes to show how young the meta is. I am pretty disappointed with how it's progressing, though. There haven't been a lot of results from characters using customs lately and some characters remain unexplored. Therefore, if the custom meta remains still-standing and people are still throwing a hissy fit, then fine, ban them. But PLEASE give it some time: give it a chance.

I'm calling it now, customs will die after EVO, because of people finally giving up on giving them a chance. It encourages a low skill cap, as I've already pointed out, because it gives most characters stronger specials that are regularly more easy to land, and/or easier to use to kill. Plus it makes the game more annoying to play. Just go to a custom tournament and you'll see what I mean. It makes the game irritating, rather than fun. The meta will develop into "let me find the best strategy using these overpowered moves so that I can win with the least amount of effort."

Finally, customs are actually holding back some characters meta. Since it's much easier to play wind Kong or custom villager, it's much easier to just use the popular strategy instead of developing your own. How much better has DK gotten after Average Joe started using wind Kong? Has his meta developed at all, or are people only spamming his up-b and not really doing anything else?

The ripping boomerang and Shocking spin are worthless. The power bow, giant bombs and wind upB could be fun on huge stages/casual rules but have no competitive value. Meteor bombs might be the best choice if they had longer fuses and packed a bit more punch; the cons outweigh the pros and normal bombs beat them. The non gale boomerang is the best but the gale isn't too bad fortunately; it only loses the 3% return attack. Quickfire arrows are the best because they give Link an interrupting/zoning tool that's hard to punish and works with locks. The normal bow is good and beats quickfire arrows in ways but overall quickfire is better.
/my two cents on Link's customs.

Why do we have 4 sets with the ripping boomerang then? I agree that it's worthless, and apparently most of the boards do as well. So why do we have so many sets with it? I'd honestly like to test out the wind-less boomerang with the big bomb for zoning (the scare factor of the big bomb is actually significant), but I can't practice it if I'm literally unable to use it at tournaments. Instead I get 4 useless custom sets.

I personally much prefer being able to hit my opponent with an arrow I can actually hit them with across the stage, making for better zoning. Also the regular arrow is a good edge guard tool, while the lag and lack of knockback on the quickfire arrow make it pretty useless for that too. Quickfire's lag and the short distance it shoots makes it seem like using it for zoning would actually get you punished, and since it only travels in a straight line and does 2% uncharged, wouldn't it be better to just use zair? Granted, I haven't really explored the quickfire arrows, so my insight could most likely be wrong.

It does seem useful in the villager MU though. I'll keep that in mind...

 

[Ryu_Ken]

I like the quick fire bow for its utilities on-stage, but I like going aggro when the opponent is offstage or in the air with projectiles. I prefer the damage and range of the normal bow over the quick fire bow because of my play style.

I believe we used to have the ripping boomerang because of its combo potential, but now we realize how precise and impractical using the ripping boomerang is. It does wonders in training, but you literally have to stand within the opponent's grab range to get the most out of it. Otherwise you don't get much reward to beat the large risk it has from the lag.
#bantheripper

 

[ShinnyMetal]

I like the quick fire bow for its utilities on-stage, but I like going aggro when the opponent is offstage or in the air with projectiles. I prefer the damage and range of the normal bow over the quick fire bow because of my play style.

I believe we used to have the ripping boomerang because of its combo potential, but now we realize how precise and impractical using the ripping boomerang is. It does wonders in training, but you literally have to stand within the opponent's grab range to get the most out of it. Otherwise you don't get much reward to beat the large risk it has from the lag.
#bantheripper

Yeah...I used the rippling boomerang for 2 seconds and was instantly like "nah". What makes the boomerang (and gale since it behaves similarly on leaving link) so good is its very flexible in what trajectories you can get from it, especially with slopes on a stage. Having good instinct on which angle you want to hit with at that moment is very important to link and when you cripple the range and speed for a bit of potential combo potential you lose a great tool.

Meteor bombs are meh. And I need to give QFA some time. I do love normal arrow and understand it well at this time

 

[DUKEL]

I'm messing around with computers with customs atm, and it seems like the ripping boomerang and meteor bombs (1313) is actually a decent set against Rosa. Meteor bombs for canceling your Up-b on stage (luma extends the hotbox), and the ripping boomerang to tear through luma and encourage rosa to use her gravitational pull, which can net you a dash attack or running up smash.

Aside from the Rosalina MU though... I really don't see a use for the ripping boomerang. Who made our custom sets, and why do half of them have a boomerang only useful in one conceivable MU?

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Aside from the Rosalina MU though... I really don't see a use for the ripping boomerang. Who made our custom sets, and why do half of them have a boomerang only useful in one conceivable MU?

Because the Devs didn't make any customs with MU's in mind.

 

[DUKEL]

Because the Devs didn't make any customs with MU's in mind.

Sorry. I mean the EVO sets. 4 (out of the 8 we can have) have ripping boomerang.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Sorry. I mean the EVO sets. 4 (out of the 8 we can have) have ripping boomerang.

Oh lol well that's becaause they're secretly trying to knock Link further down in the ranks. It's conspiracy, I tell ya!

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Sorry. I mean the EVO sets. 4 (out of the 8 we can have) have ripping boomerang.

It was mostly our fault and AmazingAmpharos' fault for including the ripper. We convinced him in the top 8 custom set thread that they were great, so he made 4 sets out of them(which I deeply regret). We'll have to go to the custom thread in the competitive discussion boards to make our objections. Or I could do it for y'all.

 

[Dumbfire]

I noticed another Zelda main lurking the boards, so here @ThePrincessZelda Embarrass this one was for the last Zelda main who wantd to join (then he left without ever coming back ):

Like sad seaboys on the mast
Who not a thing but courage need;
We always hear the deathly blast
Of the tier-*****s endless greed.

Link's life is like some deathly wave
Like the changing, Hyrulian sea;
Every hope becomes a grave
Till we sigh: "no hope for me."

We Links must share his sad lot
With only those gleams courage gave:
Though storms all ways destroy our spot --
And leave us, again upon the wave.

Link's life has been like some great storm
A turb'lous, troubled sea
We will never find a calm --
A place where we'll be free.

'Till courage is all that will remain
You'll not be one -- without that pain.
We have long by all been slain
Courage is all we have -- in vain?

No not in vain! we have our main:
We still are free, though bound by chain.
We are still going, we still are sane:
Go on and on, withstand the pain.

Join us now, poor sad Zelda main:
Triforce tier you once were too,
Share with us, for you own gain:
Though we may never have our due.

Our boards' honour on your face attends
Men may be foes, but Link makes us friends.

 

[DUKEL]

Well if we're going to make objections, it won't be in time for FC Return or EVO, the two notable customs tournaments coming up.

Also we should probably decide which ones to get rid of and which ones to keep. I'd be for getting rid of all the ripping boomerang ones except for 1313 or maybe even replace 1313 with 3313 simply for the Rosa MU. And if we do get rid of the 3 other ripping boomerang sets, we should have a set with the wooden boomerang and Giant Bomb. I know some people aren't a fan of it, but I personally think that the bomb can 1: be intimidating, 2: potentially be good for edge guarding (would need testing), 3: good for counter-zoning, as your opponent won't be able to stay near the bomb and feel safe 4: since it doesn't do much shield damage, holding shield with the bomb in hand is a viable strategy against rushdown opponents and 5: it's fuse actually makes it a decent mixup/recovery option for us.. as for the rest of the sets, I'm clueless. Maybe a 2212. Shocking spin shouldn't be on any of our sets though. That much is obvious.

 

[Lawz.]

Customs were never meant for balancing. Hence why they will never be patched in any way.

 

[Dumbfire]

We need more Zelda.

 

[Miracle BugCatcherJay]

I got a love hate relationship with customs. I like using them, but hate when people use them against me.

 

[FSK]

None of Link's customs are useful. They are crap, vanilla Link is the best option.

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

None of Link's customs are useful. They are crap, vanilla Link is the best option.

His only decent custom is Melee boomerang. Everything else is so much trash. Melee rang can net you some great combos. However in comparison to other customs it just gets blown out. The gale should have been removed from the start.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

@ Dumbfire I absolutely did not stop using Link cause of the nerf. I felt hampered cause i focused on him and no one else, so i went and picked up some more mains. Plus, the real reason why i left was because i had a life. Im just not busy this summer. You don't have to like what i do or even care what i do. If you're gonna hate the **** i post, so be it. But i wont stop posting and trying to get discussion going. After all, I AM just a beginner.
That is all.

P.S. It's cool you like Ace Attorney, and though I don't agree with most of what you said to me, I accept your opinion.